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Reject Two Big Lies
Especially during military conflicts, propaganda is usually easy to spot and easier to ignore. But two things have me seething over some propaganda we’ve had to endure or likely to hear about Russia’s evil dictator, Vladimir Putin, and a falsehood (among many) we’re likely to hear from Joe Biden on Tuesday night during the annual State of the Union address.
First, I’m offended by the notion that Putin is somehow is a “man of faith” and a great defender of Christian values. No Christian would behave the way he is right now or has with his poisoning and murdering of people in places like Ukraine (its former President, Victor Yuschenko) and Alexander Litvinenko in England. He kills or tries to kill political opponents (e.g., Alexei Navalny, now a political prisoner).
There have been suggestions he should offer the deal for Russians in various technical fields, to create a brain drain.
Flash forward 15 years: the nations bordering Russia have substantial expat communities, and Putin II announces he is invading to safeguard the rights of the displaced Russian population.
Moderator Note:
Calling a post or comment “disgusting” is rude and not conducive to good conversation.George Bush invaded Iraq on total lies. I guess he qualifies as a total non-Christian as well. [redacted]
Oh, puhleeezze! GWB didn’t himself lie, because he didn’t know the reports from Iraq weren’t true. That was entirely on the shoulders of our (we now know) corrupt intelligence services. GWB has his flaws, but that wasn’t one of them.
Huh?
Yeah, that’s bad…
But “Christians” do commit crimes and horrors – just like everyone else. Unless you want to deny 2000 years of religious wars and atrocities. How many people are you prepared to ex-communicate?
So you are free to claim they aren’t really Christians all you like, but that won’t help your case.
Maybe you could see that being Christian or believing in Christ is not an automatic path toward a moral life. That who or what you believe in is no guarantee for yourself or for others of right actions. They actually have very little to do with each other.
[redacted – ad hominem ]
{my edit- Ok he must have been unaware of major international events on 9/11}
for some reality check read about UN Security Council Resolution 687- which Saddam violated….
Yeah, the idea that “Christian” leaders don’t kill people is pretty silly, in my view. Obama had Osama killed, and while I don’t think that Obama is actually a Christian, I don’t expect that Kelly would complain about it. W would have done the same thing given a chance, I think.
What about Trump ordering the hit on that Soleimani fellow? Now once again, I don’t actually think that Trump is a Christian, but I doubt that Kelly would have complained about this one, either.
Let’s not even get started on the hundreds of thousands of civilians targeted and killed by the Allied bombing campaign in WWII. Kelly’s argument would certainly apply to Churchill and FDR, wouldn’t it?
The world is a messy place. It’s tough on a Christian leader, I think. I don’t know what I would do if faced with such responsibility. I do generally fall back on the “render unto Caesar” line.
I think most of these people were Christians, including the director and most of the actors:
Who’s being naive, Kay?
It’s tough on everybody, at times, but thankfully few of us face decisions of that magnitude. Still, refraining from starting wars is an easy call. “Render unto Caesar” gives no cover for that.
“I am the good shepherd…My sheep listen to my voice; I know them and they follow me.”
“Very truly I tell you, whoever believes in me will do the works that I have been doing…If you love me, keep my commands…My command is this: Love each other as I have loved you…”
-Various verses in John 10-15
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It would be better to describe Putin as amoral, masquerading as Christian, which would put him squarely among most bloody tyrants of the west. His “Christianity” is political and places him among the “born again” post Soviet Orthodox in Russia. But one thing is certain, he remains KGB to the core, which means he is a ruthless, sneaky, unrepentant killer. But like all tyrants, he must have support, or at least order, at home. That seems to be his great miscalculation and will be his undoing. The Ukrainians, with support from Europe (and the US) have proven stubborn and will not lay down and submit. No one believes that Ukraine belongs to Russia, neither Russians inside or outside of Russia. Putin is finding out that his will is subordinate to the will of his people, and he can’t change that. He is losing the politics and as a result, will lose the war and his power. The only question remains: how much damage will he inflict as this story unfolds? Will he come to his senses, be taken out or will he attempt something very, very stupid?
Fair enough. But you can’t on the one hand praise or sympathize with Putin as a man of faith and a defender of Christian values and then on the other deny that the faith and those values have any higher virtue to be praised for them. It’s gotta be one or the other, man.
The Just War Doctrine of the Catholic Church:
Putin is in violation of many of these provisions of the Just War Doctrine. Although he may not be a Catholic, Ukrainian Catholics, and Catholics from other countries, can in good conscience fight for their country, and Ukraine as well.
Great post. This article is attempt to separate Putin from Christianity by making the case that a true Christian wouldn’t do the evil things Putin has done.
I strongly disagree with some of the comments here which are attacking the author by attempting to draw a moral contrast between our guys and Putin. There is no moral equivalence between the deaths of Soleimani, Abu Bakr al-Baghdadi, Bin Laden, etc, and the assassinations orchestrated by Putin. There is no moral equivalence between the invasions of Iraq (or Afghanistan) and of Ukraine. The differences are profound, and frankly shouldn’t require explanation.
These “yeah, but” comparisons are attempts to minimize what Putin has done. Why else are they even brought up? (“Sure Putin is bad, but we have Presidents who’ve invaded and killed people we don’t like”). I don’t know why some on the right reflexively defend Putin, but these attempts to draw a comparison to Putin are in of themselves evidence that some people have a soft spot for him. Some of it is probably driven by respect, some by falling for his dishonest defense of Christianity, and some by his nationalist rhetoric- regardless of the reason there have been many posts and comments on Ricochet comparing Putin favorably to US leaders. Some have even said they’d rather be governed by Putin than Obama.
Putin is the aggressor in Ukraine , and an evil, murderous dictator. Pointing out that he’s not a man of faith or that he’s a poor defender of Christian values should be an easy thing to agree with.
Who learned that gambit from whom?
Maybe Hang On’s comment was in reference to Hill+Knowlton’s PR campaign for the first Gulf War?
Or, “by their fruits you shall know them…”
I’m not praising or sympathizing with him. I think it’s a mistake to dwell on his supposed Christianity as an argument either way, or pretend that morality and Christianity are or should be connected. It’s a bad argument.
And jihadis aren’t Muslims🙄… because Muslims believe blah blah blah.
Moderator Note:
Redacted A smorgasbord of insultsI strongly disagree with some of the comments here which are attacking the author by attempting to draw a moral contrast between our guys and Putin. There is no moral equivalence between the deaths of Soleimani, Abu Bakr al-Baghdadi, Bin Laden, etc, and the assassinations orchestrated by Putin. There is no moral equivalence between the invasions of Iraq (or Afghanistan) and of Ukraine. The differences are profound, and frankly shouldn’t require explanation.
These “yeah, but” comparisons are attempts to minimize what Putin has done. Why else are they even brought up? (“Sure Putin is bad, but we have Presidents who’ve invaded and killed people we don’t like”). I don’t know why some on the right reflexively defend Putin, but these attempts to draw a comparison to Putin are in of themselves evidence that some people have a soft spot for him. Some of it is probably driven by respect, some by falling for his dishonest defense of Christianity, and some by his nationalist rhetoric- regardless of the reason there have been many posts and comments on Ricochet comparing Putin favorably to US leaders. Some have even said they’d rather be governed by Putin than Obama.
Putin is the aggressor in Ukraine , and an evil, murderous dictator. Pointing out that he’s not a man of faith or that he’s a poor defender of Christian values should be an easy thing to agree with.
It may depend on how you define a “Christian.” If you define a Christian who sincerely believes in Christ and follows Him, no person like that is going to knowingly cause this kind of death and suffering. Not without, at least, some major mistake in fact or a mental health breakdown. Certainly Christians fall short of their calling to follow Christ all the time. That’s to be expected. Especially in complicated circumstances or when stakes are relatively low. But to commit sins of this magnitude – invading a country and killing their people – being so obviously contrary to the teachings and commands of Christ, to say nothing of His example – something has to really be off the rails. And so, with that definition, I think it’s fair to say that person is not, at least at the moment, a real Christian.
After being redacted for a “Smorgasbord of insults”, I’m now in a worse mood than before. I even forget what I said. I guess I offended someone’s religious sensibilities.
There is no claim Christians or Muslims or whoever, can make to being moral based on their religion. We know that there are immoral people in every religion. and we also know that many claim that their religious beliefs give them justification for their actions. This is politics 101.
I’m not bashing Christians or Muslims or anyone. I’m bashing the conceit that religion and morality are connected. They are not. There are moral people who are religious, immoral people who are religious and moral people who are atheist and immoral people who are atheists, agnostic or whatever. The claim that Putin is a religious man and therefore … somehow justified and acting in ‘good faith’, is absurd. Claiming Putin is evil and therefore not a Christian is also absurd. He claims to be a Christian. So what?
Putin calling himself Christian is meaningless, and the way to combat that is not to say Putin is not a “Christian” because Christians don’t invade countries … (not a good argument going back to the Crusades) but to say Putin is immoral. Period.
Because, who is the arbiter of what is Christian? You? The Pope? Which Pope? Do I need to provide a history lesson?
Except of course the Crusades were not an aggressive action, they were a response to muslim conquest.
I am very grateful for your comment. I noted that no one challenged my critique of Putin’s alleged “Christianity” based on my three criteria – the obvious false premises of his invasion, his poisoning and killing of opponents, and his weird claim that there is no happiness in life. They instead resorted to “whataboutism,” granting moral equivalence not just to Bush’s ill-advised invasion of Saddam Hussein’s Iraq, based on faulty intel, but even Trump’s hit on Qassem Soleimani. I will defer to families of lost and maimed US soldiers from Soleimani’s IEDs for their reaction. Such moral equivalence to Putin’s war crimes borders on insanity.
Oh, oooookay… it was a response…. got it….
Everything is a ‘response’. Every conflict has a history. I’m not taking sides here or condemning anyone. Everyone believes they are acting ‘in good faith’. And innocents get killed. It gets very dicey when you connect religiosity with morality. Do I have to invoke the Inquisition? I really don’t want to offend good Christians, but really, have some humility.
Some people will claim that whatever they do is a “response,” but many of them are lying.
You don’t have to guess who the arbiter is. That is answered in the passages I quoted above and all the surrounding passages. He lives.
And anyway it’s not a label, or a description, or a category – it’s a belief and the actions that correspond to it. Again, I would refer you to those verses and many others like them.
No one can challenge you because it’s your definition. Are you the arbiter of Christianity? Still it seems reasonable, until you look at actual history, then it doesn’t hold up very well.
Be Christian. That’s fine. I’m glad tyou noticed that Vladimir is a thug -( like so many!)
Why is this a religious issue? Can’t someone just be a tyrant?
Putin could call himself a Scientologist for all I care, and even with my low opinion of that religion, I don’t think I would associate his actions with the core tenets of that cult. If other Scientologists went on record saying Scientology doesn’t believe in false premises of invasions, poisoning of opponents and that there’s “no happiness in life”, it wouldn’t make me feel one bit better – probably worse that they were so insecure as to feel obligated to verbalize such a thing.
I’m glad he was offed. But I can’t pretend it was “moral”. I honestly don’t know. I thing it was a ‘good’ thing though. The problem is that we don’t have all the facts.
Most people just lie to themselves to justify their actions. It’s not just dictators. Clergy, academics, politicians, lawyers, just about everyone. I include myself. We all do it. Accept that basic psychological fact and you will have more understanding (or less?) of what’s going on…
Sure. And that means that the muslims claiming the Crusades were aggression, rather than attempting to take back areas the muslims had conquered, was and is a lie.
I have no way of knowing.
I lean toward the Christian preference personally. For a lot of reasons. But we are victims of the stories we tell ourselves, so everyone is vulnerable.
The only thing that makes us less vulnerable is the understanding of how vulnerable we are.
Any religion that would claim I am a saint or Messiah, I would reject outright. If you call that low self-esteem, so be it. Silly but true, and most everyone of sanity would say the same.
But anyone has to acknowledge that looking through history many actions were taken believing in better outcomes, but these outcomes are eventually imposed by force.
350 years is an awful long statute of limitations for reconquest to be considered “non-aggressive.” That’s about the length of time between the Muslim conquest and the 1st Crusade, after all. If the Brits tried to invade the US now (don’t laugh), would you not consider that an act of aggression? Or would that be merely “taking back” areas they had lost to the traitorous rebels?