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Prop Guns and Blanks
Words have meaning. Any firearm capable of pushing a projectile out of barrel is not a prop, even though it might be used as a prop. Blanks are capable of causing physical injury, serious physical injury, and death.
The investigation into the accidental shooting involving Alec Baldwin, the death of Director of Photography Halnya Hutchins, and the wounding of Director Joel Souza is ongoing. I’m not going to comment on what the result of that investigation will be. Two statements that have been made have caught my attention.
There were at least two accidental gun discharges on the set of an Alec Baldwin movie being filmed in New Mexico days before he fatally shot the cinematographer, according to three former members of the film’s crew. – from the New York Times
Guns do not discharge themselves. Someone has to pull the trigger. Guns used as a prop should not have a modified trigger, or a hair-trigger. If the discharges were due to mishandling the weapon that calls for better training of the actor. If the actor is uncooperative he/she should not be allowed to handle a firearm.
If the armorer determines there is a mechanical problem with the firearm then it’s time to find a gunsmith.
According to the affidavit by the detective in the Santa Fe County sheriff’s office, the gun used in the shooting was set up by Hannah Gutierrez, the production’s armorer, and handed to Mr. Baldwin by Dave Halls, the assistant director. Neither Ms. Gutierrez nor Mr. Halls responded to requests for comment. – from the New York Times
According to the current story Mr. Baldwin was told the gun was cold. A firearm that can fire blanks is never cold. It’s either empty, or loaded.
There should be a chain of custody protocol on a movie, or television set. The armorer should hand the firearm to the actor. As a secondary check the armorer should check the weapon in the presence of the actor. The actor should not receive the firearm from anyone else on the crew.
All firearms that can fire a projectile should be considered hot. I treat my own firearms, and a firearm that belongs to anyone else as hot before I clean them, handle them, or if a friend would like to handle one. I follow that protocol at a gun store.
Published in GunsActors in particular are at serious risk of injury from blank cartridges used on movie sets. Several actors have been killed in such mishaps:
Brandon Lee was killed while filming a scene for the 1994 film The Crow when a .44-caliber S&W Model 629 revolver used as a prop that contained a squib load — a bullet accidentally stuck in the gun barrel — was fired with a blank cartridge, which propelled the lodged bullet down the barrel. As reported in the investigation and court records, the dummy round used during an earlier shoot was handloaded by someone other than a firearms expert, who removed the propellant powder but unknowingly left a live primer in place, resulting in a bullet being separated from the casing without enough energy behind it to exit the barrel. The gun was not properly checked for the retained bullet prior to the incident, and the squib load was then blown out of the barrel by the blast energy of the blank, fatally injuring Lee.
Jon-Erik Hexum was killed on the set of the TV series Cover Up, when he placed a blank-loaded .44 Magnum revolver to his right temple and pulled the trigger as a joke — the powerful shockwave from the blank cartridge caused a depression fracture to the skull, sending bone fragments deep into his brain and causing severe intracranial hemorrhage. He died a few days after the accident.
Johann Ofner, a professional stunt double, was killed in 2017 while filming a scene for Bliss n Eso music video “Dopamine” in the Brooklyn Standard bar in Brisbane.
A 17-year old was playing with a gun used in a St. George, Utah high school theatre program to be used in a production of Oklahoma!, and accidentally killed himself, thinking that “blank” cartridges were harmless. – from Wikipedia
This one is set in the 1880’s.
The first semiautomatic was the Salvator-Dormus. It was designed in 1891. About 50 were made before development was abandoned.
Makes sense. The only other I can think of is The Wild Bunch, and in both of those movies there was the underlying theme of the west changing at the turn of the century.
So likely a single action revolver. But even with a double action revolver, after firing the firearm doesn’t have a live round under the hammer so it’s completely safe as long as no one cocks it (either action) or pulls the trigger (double action). So for the armorer to remove the empty case before law enforcement arrives means (IMHO) she is clearly inept. The minute that weapon was fired it was a crime scene. Someone who handles guns for a living should know better,
Not that we could trust Hollyweird to get that right, but it’s a fair bet that it was a revolver.
Also, according to one (not necessarily reputable) entertainment news outlet, some of the staff had used the firearm earlier in the day with live rounds for target practice.
Basic gun safety requires you to check any firearm for the presence of ammo in the chamber/barrel even if the person handing it to you says it has been checked. You don’t fire a gun unless you have checked and loaded it yourself.
If the NRA was responsible for gun safety on Hollywood sets, such accidents wouldn’t happen.
It wasn’t a prop gun…
The recounting the ‘accidental’ gun incident from the filming of “Leon the Professional” staring Natalie Portman and Gary Oldman
Here’s a question. If the gun was loaded with a bullet cartridge instead of a blank cartridge, and Baldwin was handed the gun and he did open it to check to see if it were loaded, could he tell if it were a blank or a regular bullet? I’ve never seen a blank cartridge. Is the casing color coded? If he can only see the back face of the cartridge, could he tell it was a blank and not a bullet?
When I was in the 82nd, guys would take the blank adapter off the muzzle and stuff a used blank cartridge, crimped end first, into the muzzle. It fit perfect. You could chamber a live blank, and shoot the muzzle-stuffed cartridge about 200 or so feet. We bounced them off Cobra helicopters doing gun-runs on use once — which really pissed the pilots off.
With a revolver, when you open the cylinder you can see both ends of each bullet/cartridge. Looking at the barrel side of the cylinder, with blanks you wouldn’t see any actual bullets/slugs, just the crimped ends or whatever of whatever type of blanks were being used.
Thanks. I wasn’t sure.
Pull them out and check the tip.
At least if there’s any doubt from looking in the other end.
Never say never.
Swinging out the cylinder does not require the deft touch of a safecracker.
I meant looking in the other end of the cylinder when opened, as described previously.
Sure it would. If all processes and standards are ignored then, yes accidents will happen no matter who is actually ‘in charge’.
While true, the gun was likely a single action so each round would need to be individually unloaded. In fact, loading and unloading a single action revolver is way beyond the skill set of most contemporary gun owners. It still, IMHO, doesn’t give the armorer or the producer/shooter a pass.
It just now occurs to me that the shooter had to cock the hammer before firing. Either that or the gun was prepped and then left cocked for the actors. Given everything else I’ve heard it would not surprise me. This whole thing is just becoming more and more shocking.
This shooting is turning out to be more reckless and stupid than originally reported:
I have single action only revolvers of which you can’t open the cylinder. Though you can spin it, and check that way.
That’s bad. But I can’t help but laugh.
Watch this turn out to be a black powder pistol. How do you know it’s loaded or not when you’ve got a capped nipple at one end and grease at the other?
Added: I guess it took cartridges, though.
Hey hey, this is a family site.
Well at least he didn’t mention the clothes-pins.
From what I have heard and read, I don’t think that’s the case. But it is still a matter of negligence somewhere.
New officers in the academy start on the range by loading the rounds they need. For example two rounds center mass you load two rounds, fire them and you’re empty, then the next step is load three rounds center mass, and so on.
Experienced officers shoot fully loaded. For example with the Glock 17 you have 18 rounds in the Glock, and then two magazines on your belt, each magazine contains 17 rounds. You have to count your rounds as you shoot, and replace magazines when needed. This is called a hot range. Nobody moves forward, or backward off the firing line until everyone on the line is holstered.
You don’t remove your Glock from the holster unless you are on the line, and shooting. If you’re waiting to shoot, or walk back to your vehicle that pistol remains holstered. If you didn’t empty a magazine you must drop the magazine and unload, or reload on the line.
We were required to report an accidental discharge when we were on duty, or off duty no matter the time of day or night. Failure to report that discharge meant termination, and an officer I did not know did not report an off duty discharge, suffered a wound to the hand and was terminated.
I understand that time is money on a movie set. We had to qualify quarterly as police officers in my agency. Everything from sign-in for qualification to shooting was controlled. There are difficulties on a movie set involving firearms, but the attention to detail cannot be overlooked. Once something leaves the barrel it cannot be recalled.
LOL. I honestly never thought about it like that.
A couple weeks ago I was at a nearby convenience store, and the keypad think didn’t like the chip in my debit card. The attractive young lady at the register said “put it in slow, and take it out slow.”
Go on. What did you do? Don’t leave us hanging.
I assumed she didn’t realize how that would sound to most guys, so I just paid and left. Didn’t want to be accused of anything, when there’s nobody to bail me out.