Prop Guns and Blanks

 

Words have meaning. Any firearm capable of pushing a projectile out of barrel is not a prop, even though it might be used as a prop. Blanks are capable of causing physical injury, serious physical injury, and death.

The investigation into the accidental shooting involving Alec Baldwin, the death of Director of Photography Halnya Hutchins, and the wounding of Director Joel Souza is ongoing. I’m not going to comment on what the result of that investigation will be. Two statements that have been made have caught my attention.

There were at least two accidental gun discharges on the set of an Alec Baldwin movie being filmed in New Mexico days before he fatally shot the cinematographer, according to three former members of the film’s crew. – from the New York Times

Guns do not discharge themselves. Someone has to pull the trigger. Guns used as a prop should not have a modified trigger, or a hair-trigger. If the discharges were due to mishandling the weapon that calls for better training of the actor. If the actor is uncooperative he/she should not be allowed to handle a firearm.

If the armorer determines there is a mechanical problem with the firearm then it’s time to find a gunsmith.

According to the affidavit by the detective in the Santa Fe County sheriff’s office, the gun used in the shooting was set up by Hannah Gutierrez, the production’s armorer, and handed to Mr. Baldwin by Dave Halls, the assistant director. Neither Ms. Gutierrez nor Mr. Halls responded to requests for comment. – from the New York Times

According to the current story Mr. Baldwin was told the gun was cold. A firearm that can fire blanks is never cold. It’s either empty, or loaded.

There should be a chain of custody protocol on a movie, or television set. The armorer should hand the firearm to the actor. As a secondary check the armorer should check the weapon in the presence of the actor. The actor should not receive the firearm from anyone else on the crew.

All firearms that can fire a projectile should be considered hot. I treat my own firearms, and a firearm that belongs to anyone else  as hot before I clean them, handle them, or if a friend would like to handle one. I follow that protocol at a gun store.

Actors in particular are at serious risk of injury from blank cartridges used on movie sets. Several actors have been killed in such mishaps:

Brandon Lee was killed while filming a scene for the 1994 film The Crow when a .44-caliber S&W Model 629 revolver used as a prop that contained a squib load — a bullet accidentally stuck in the gun barrel — was fired with a blank cartridge, which propelled the lodged bullet down the barrel. As reported in the investigation and court records, the dummy round used during an earlier shoot was handloaded by someone other than a firearms expert, who removed the propellant powder but unknowingly left a live primer in place, resulting in a bullet being separated from the casing without enough energy behind it to exit the barrel. The gun was not properly checked for the retained bullet prior to the incident, and the squib load was then blown out of the barrel by the blast energy of the blank, fatally injuring Lee.

Jon-Erik Hexum was killed on the set of the TV series Cover Up, when he placed a blank-loaded .44 Magnum revolver to his right temple and pulled the trigger as a joke — the powerful shockwave from the blank cartridge caused a depression fracture to the skull, sending bone fragments deep into his brain and causing severe intracranial hemorrhage. He died a few days after the accident.

Johann Ofner, a professional stunt double, was killed in 2017 while filming a scene for Bliss n Eso music video “Dopamine” in the Brooklyn Standard bar in Brisbane.

A 17-year old was playing with a gun used in a St. George, Utah high school theatre program to be used in a production of Oklahoma!, and accidentally killed himself, thinking that “blank” cartridges were harmless. – from Wikipedia

Published in Guns
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  1. MiMac Thatcher
    MiMac
    @MiMac

    nothing new under the sun- read about the death of Jon-Erik Hexum.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jon-Erik_Hexum

    • #31
  2. CACrabtree Coolidge
    CACrabtree
    @CACrabtree

    Jim McConnell (View Comment):

    As the saying goes, “Nearly all accidental shootings are with guns that weren’t loaded.”

    Speaking of blanks: When I was in Army basic training during a night exercise using blank cartridges in M-1 rifles, one of the trainees shot a fellow trainee at about ten feet with a blank, and injured him seriously when the wadding lodged in his chest.

    I remember a few “Gomers” myself during BCT.  Looking back on it makes me marvel that my D.I. didn’t kill some of those fools.

    • #32
  3. Vance Richards Inactive
    Vance Richards
    @VanceRichards

    Jim McConnell (View Comment):

    As the saying goes, “Nearly all accidental shootings are with guns that weren’t loaded.”

    Speaking of blanks: When I was in Army basic training during a night exercise using blank cartridges in M-1 rifles, one of the trainees shot a fellow trainee at about ten feet with a blank, and injured him seriously when the wadding lodged in his chest.

    Which is why you don’t point a gun at anyone unless you are willing to shoot them. Even if it was blanks, it shouldn’t have been pointed at the camera person.

    • #33
  4. OccupantCDN Coolidge
    OccupantCDN
    @OccupantCDN

    Its been kinda interesting watching this play out in the media. Everyone (or nearly everyone) is giving Alec Baldwin the benefit of the doubt that he would not every give anyone involved in a fatal accidental shooting.

    There has been union troubles and financially related animosities on set – its been speculated that this could have been an act of sabotage — Not to excuse Alec Baldwin of the responsibility to check the weapon when he’s handed it – or the person who handed it off… They’d both have a hard time defending a negligence charge.

    • #34
  5. Flicker Coolidge
    Flicker
    @Flicker

    OccupantCDN (View Comment):

    Its been kinda interesting watching this play out in the media. Everyone (or nearly everyone) is giving Alec Baldwin the benefit of the doubt that he would not every give anyone involved in a fatal accidental shooting.

    There has been union troubles and financially related animosities on set – its been speculated that this could have been an act of sabotage — Not to excuse Alec Baldwin of the responsibility to check the weapon when he’s handed it – or the person who handed it off… They’d both have a hard time defending a negligence charge.

    I give him the benefit of the doubt, in that at the very least he was play-acting like a child and shot at someone, not knowing the gun was loaded.  But I don’t know, perhaps he sneezed and the gun went off, or perhaps the gun was loaded according to some nefarious plan.

    Anything’s possible, but in this case stupidity really seems like the most likely cause.

    • #35
  6. BDB Inactive
    BDB
    @BDB

    kedavis (View Comment):

    Percival (View Comment):
    You do not point the weapon at anyone, ever.

    That probably means they can’t make the movie.

    Boo-Hoo.  And I’m not buying it anyway.  Aside from special affect, practical effects that mess the audience’s perception of alignment and distance are old hat.  This is just laziness born of disrespect.

    Do you think Bruce Willis actually gets punched and kicked because it “has to look realistic”?

    Cause of death: Homicide by laziness, with underlying cause disrespect.

    • #36
  7. BDB Inactive
    BDB
    @BDB

    kedavis (View Comment):

    Fake John/Jane Galt (View Comment):

    kedavis (View Comment):

    Percival (View Comment):
    You do not point the weapon at anyone, ever.

    That probably means they can’t make the movie.

    Why use any weapons at all? We are talking about an industry that makes realistic looking space ships and monsters. Surely making a realistic weapon that does not actually fire a projectile would not be out of their art.

    I expect real guns are less expensive than CGI.

    Depends how expensive the victim was I guess.

    • #37
  8. BDB Inactive
    BDB
    @BDB

    Percival (View Comment):

    kedavis (View Comment):

    Doug Watt (View Comment):

    Bean bag shotguns that fire a less than lethal round are available to law enforcement agencies. The beanbag shotgun should not be able to chamber a 12 gauge round. It’s an added expense, but it will be a disaster waiting to happen if a lethal 12 gauge round is chambered by mistake.

    The beanbag rounds are still pretty dangerous at close range, where a lot of movies and TV shows have it.

    I think Doug is referring on the types of shotguns the police use. Blank shotgun rounds (no pellets and a light wad) can be relatively safe.

    Not if you’re an untrained moron and decide to “fake” suicide by eating a shotgun blank during your lunch break.

    • #38
  9. Arahant Member
    Arahant
    @Arahant

    BDB (View Comment):
    Not if you’re an untrained moron and decide to “fake” suicide by eating a shotgun blank during your lunch break.

    Man, that would put people off their tucker.

    • #39
  10. kedavis Coolidge
    kedavis
    @kedavis

    BDB (View Comment):

    kedavis (View Comment):

    Fake John/Jane Galt (View Comment):

    kedavis (View Comment):

    Percival (View Comment):
    You do not point the weapon at anyone, ever.

    That probably means they can’t make the movie.

    Why use any weapons at all? We are talking about an industry that makes realistic looking space ships and monsters. Surely making a realistic weapon that does not actually fire a projectile would not be out of their art.

    I expect real guns are less expensive than CGI.

    Depends how expensive the victim was I guess.

    They don’t figure on things like that, except to the extent they have insurance.

    • #40
  11. kedavis Coolidge
    kedavis
    @kedavis

    Arahant (View Comment):

    BDB (View Comment):
    Not if you’re an untrained moron and decide to “fake” suicide by eating a shotgun blank during your lunch break.

    Man, that would put people off their tucker.

    Except the zombies.   “Brainsss!!!”

    • #41
  12. OccupantCDN Coolidge
    OccupantCDN
    @OccupantCDN

    Will Smith demonstrates gun safety – from the production of Bad Boys 2.

     

    • #42
  13. BDB Inactive
    BDB
    @BDB

    Arahant (View Comment):

    BDB (View Comment):
    Not if you’re an untrained moron and decide to “fake” suicide by eating a shotgun blank during your lunch break.

    Man, that would put people off their tucker.

    Oi!

    • #43
  14. BDB Inactive
    BDB
    @BDB

    kedavis (View Comment):

    BDB (View Comment):

    kedavis (View Comment):

    Fake John/Jane Galt (View Comment):

    kedavis (View Comment):

    Percival (View Comment):
    You do not point the weapon at anyone, ever.

    That probably means they can’t make the movie.

    Why use any weapons at all? We are talking about an industry that makes realistic looking space ships and monsters. Surely making a realistic weapon that does not actually fire a projectile would not be out of their art.

    I expect real guns are less expensive than CGI.

    Depends how expensive the victim was I guess.

    They don’t figure on things like that, except to the extent they have insurance.

    I suspect they’re going to start.  

    • #44
  15. Manny Coolidge
    Manny
    @Manny

    Doug Watt: All firearms that can fire a projectile should be considered hot.

    This is what I have been trying to find out about the cartridge in the prop gun.  From what the NY Post presented this morning there is a wax wad that keeps the propellant in place.  Now wax should turn to jelly under the acceleration, so I just can’t see being a the lethal mechanism.  But I just don’t know.  I have looked up other types of blank cartridge designs, and they may use plastic, which depending on the plastic could be more lethal.  Other questions come to mind.  How far away was she standing from the blast?  Was there something inside the gun tube that got launched?  Could the brass cartridge case have fragmented and pieces launched?  

    What a very tragic event.  My heart goes out to Ms. Hutchins and her family.  

    • #45
  16. W Bob Member
    W Bob
    @WBob

    Percival (View Comment):

    kedavis (View Comment):

    Percival (View Comment):

    kedavis (View Comment):

    Percival (View Comment):
    You do not point the weapon at anyone, ever.

    That probably means they can’t make the movie.

    The angles at which the movies are shot, plus the blocking used for each scene, make “aiming to miss” without appearing to be aiming to miss, not terribly difficult. About the only time that a weapon should come close to being dangerous is if the actor is going to be filmed shooting directly at the camera’s position.

    I’d like to see how this scene gets re-done so that the gun is never really aimed at someone, but I think it would be very boring.

     

    Think about what you actually saw. Bruce Willis pushes off on Dennis Franz. Franz backs off a few steps. Willis fires a submachine gun. Was Franz standing there then? Why? The film editor stitches all that stuff together into a cohesive scene, but the film was done separately. For all we know, Franz was back in his trailer watching the Cubs game and cracking open a cold one when Willis was firing the gun.

    Yes, but the gun was being fired at the camera. Often the director is behind the camera. Was that what happened here? Why else was Baldwin pointing a gun at the director?

    Its looking like there was a real bullet in the gun. If that’s true, then we could be looking at something other than negligence. Why on earth would a real bullet be anywhere on the set? 

    • #46
  17. kedavis Coolidge
    kedavis
    @kedavis

    BDB (View Comment):

    kedavis (View Comment):

    BDB (View Comment):

    kedavis (View Comment):

    Fake John/Jane Galt (View Comment):

    kedavis (View Comment):

    Percival (View Comment):
    You do not point the weapon at anyone, ever.

    That probably means they can’t make the movie.

    Why use any weapons at all? We are talking about an industry that makes realistic looking space ships and monsters. Surely making a realistic weapon that does not actually fire a projectile would not be out of their art.

    I expect real guns are less expensive than CGI.

    Depends how expensive the victim was I guess.

    They don’t figure on things like that, except to the extent they have insurance.

    I suspect they’re going to start.

    Those very rare incidents are likely already figured into insurance.  As are aged stars getting heart attacks halfway through, etc.

    • #47
  18. Manny Coolidge
    Manny
    @Manny

    Flicker (View Comment):

    OccupantCDN (View Comment):

    Its been kinda interesting watching this play out in the media. Everyone (or nearly everyone) is giving Alec Baldwin the benefit of the doubt that he would not every give anyone involved in a fatal accidental shooting.

    There has been union troubles and financially related animosities on set – its been speculated that this could have been an act of sabotage — Not to excuse Alec Baldwin of the responsibility to check the weapon when he’s handed it – or the person who handed it off… They’d both have a hard time defending a negligence charge.

    I give him the benefit of the doubt, in that at the very least he was play-acting like a child and shot at someone, not knowing the gun was loaded. But I don’t know, perhaps he sneezed and the gun went off, or perhaps the gun was loaded according to some nefarious plan.

    Anything’s possible, but in this case stupidity really seems like the most likely cause.

    I agree.  And one of my thoughts on this was, what do Liberal actors who are probably anti-gun to begin with know about safely handling guns?  Probably not much, and once they get one in their hands all of a sudden channel John Wayne.

    • #48
  19. W Bob Member
    W Bob
    @WBob

    Manny (View Comment):

    Doug Watt: All firearms that can fire a projectile should be considered hot.

    This is what I have been trying to find out about the cartridge in the prop gun. From what the NY Post presented this morning there is a wax wad that keeps the propellant in place. Now wax should turn to jelly under the acceleration, so I just can’t see being a the lethal mechanism. But I just don’t know. I have looked up other types of blank cartridge designs, and they may use plastic, which depending on the plastic could be more lethal. Other questions come to mind. How far away was she standing from the blast? Was there something inside the gun tube that got launched? Could the brass cartridge case have fragmented and pieces launched?

    What a very tragic event. My heart goes out to Ms. Hutchins and her family.

    The same shot apparently went through one victim and into the other. That sounds like a real bullet.

    • #49
  20. Manny Coolidge
    Manny
    @Manny

    W Bob (View Comment):

    Manny (View Comment):

    Doug Watt: All firearms that can fire a projectile should be considered hot.

    This is what I have been trying to find out about the cartridge in the prop gun. From what the NY Post presented this morning there is a wax wad that keeps the propellant in place. Now wax should turn to jelly under the acceleration, so I just can’t see being a the lethal mechanism. But I just don’t know. I have looked up other types of blank cartridge designs, and they may use plastic, which depending on the plastic could be more lethal. Other questions come to mind. How far away was she standing from the blast? Was there something inside the gun tube that got launched? Could the brass cartridge case have fragmented and pieces launched?

    What a very tragic event. My heart goes out to Ms. Hutchins and her family.

    The same shot apparently went through one victim and into the other. That sounds like a real bullet.

    That would definitely be a real bullet.  But I did not hear that.  Is that confirmed, the same projectile injured both?  I took it as multiple frags sprayed out.

    • #50
  21. Percival Thatcher
    Percival
    @Percival

    W Bob (View Comment):

    Percival (View Comment):

    kedavis (View Comment):

    Percival (View Comment):

    kedavis (View Comment):

    Percival (View Comment):
    You do not point the weapon at anyone, ever.

    That probably means they can’t make the movie.

    The angles at which the movies are shot, plus the blocking used for each scene, make “aiming to miss” without appearing to be aiming to miss, not terribly difficult. About the only time that a weapon should come close to being dangerous is if the actor is going to be filmed shooting directly at the camera’s position.

    I’d like to see how this scene gets re-done so that the gun is never really aimed at someone, but I think it would be very boring.

     

    Think about what you actually saw. Bruce Willis pushes off on Dennis Franz. Franz backs off a few steps. Willis fires a submachine gun. Was Franz standing there then? Why? The film editor stitches all that stuff together into a cohesive scene, but the film was done separately. For all we know, Franz was back in his trailer watching the Cubs game and cracking open a cold one when Willis was firing the gun.

    Yes, but the gun was being fired at the camera. Often the director is behind the camera. Was that what happened here? Why else was Baldwin pointing a gun at the director?

    Which gun? The one Willis was firing was slightly to Willis’ right.

    Its looking like there was a real bullet in the gun. If that’s true, then we could be looking at something other than negligence. Why on earth would a real bullet be anywhere on the set?

    Which is what I asked originally. I’ve looked into New Mexico gun laws, and it is an open carry state. It is negligence on Baldwin’s part come what may. The replacement armorer had no motive to load a live round. I don’t think the assistant director or whomever handed Baldwin the gun had a motive either. Would the armorer who was forced off set have one? Has sabotage ever been a labor tactic? Heaven forfend!

     

    • #51
  22. kedavis Coolidge
    kedavis
    @kedavis

    Percival (View Comment):

    W Bob (View Comment):

    Percival (View Comment):

    kedavis (View Comment):

    Percival (View Comment):

    kedavis (View Comment):

    Percival (View Comment):
    You do not point the weapon at anyone, ever.

    That probably means they can’t make the movie.

    The angles at which the movies are shot, plus the blocking used for each scene, make “aiming to miss” without appearing to be aiming to miss, not terribly difficult. About the only time that a weapon should come close to being dangerous is if the actor is going to be filmed shooting directly at the camera’s position.

    I’d like to see how this scene gets re-done so that the gun is never really aimed at someone, but I think it would be very boring.

     

    Think about what you actually saw. Bruce Willis pushes off on Dennis Franz. Franz backs off a few steps. Willis fires a submachine gun. Was Franz standing there then? Why? The film editor stitches all that stuff together into a cohesive scene, but the film was done separately. For all we know, Franz was back in his trailer watching the Cubs game and cracking open a cold one when Willis was firing the gun.

    Yes, but the gun was being fired at the camera. Often the director is behind the camera. Was that what happened here? Why else was Baldwin pointing a gun at the director?

    Which gun? The one Willis was firing was slightly to Willis’ right.

    Its looking like there was a real bullet in the gun. If that’s true, then we could be looking at something other than negligence. Why on earth would a real bullet be anywhere on the set?

    Which is what I asked originally. I’ve looked into New Mexico gun laws, and it is an open carry state. It is negligence on Baldwin’s part come what may. The replacement armorer had no motive to load a live round. I don’t think the assistant director or whomever handed Baldwin the gun had a motive either. Would the armorer who was forced off set have one? Has sabotage ever been a labor tactic? Heaven forfend!

     

    If there had been “misfires” on the set previously, someone might have set up what they expected to be another “misfire” to sabotage production without any thought that someone might actually be hurt or killed.

    • #52
  23. OccupantCDN Coolidge
    OccupantCDN
    @OccupantCDN

    Manny (View Comment):

    Flicker (View Comment):

    OccupantCDN (View Comment):

    Its been kinda interesting watching this play out in the media. Everyone (or nearly everyone) is giving Alec Baldwin the benefit of the doubt that he would not every give anyone involved in a fatal accidental shooting.

    There has been union troubles and financially related animosities on set – its been speculated that this could have been an act of sabotage — Not to excuse Alec Baldwin of the responsibility to check the weapon when he’s handed it – or the person who handed it off… They’d both have a hard time defending a negligence charge.

    I give him the benefit of the doubt, in that at the very least he was play-acting like a child and shot at someone, not knowing the gun was loaded. But I don’t know, perhaps he sneezed and the gun went off, or perhaps the gun was loaded according to some nefarious plan.

    Anything’s possible, but in this case stupidity really seems like the most likely cause.

    I agree. And one of my thoughts on this was, what do Liberal actors who are probably anti-gun to begin with know about safely handling guns? Probably not much, and once they get one in their hands all of a sudden channel John Wayne.

    The problem is – his experience. Alec Baldwin has been handling guns on movie sets since the 90s (Hunt for Red October) Its hard to claim that someone who has been safely handling weapons for 40 years has no experience or doesnt know how to clear a gun…

    Has he had formal NRA gun safety training? Probably not – but he’s probably had numerous safety seminars and there are probably a host of people out there who could testify that he was a knowledgeable and experienced handler of guns.

    • #53
  24. Flicker Coolidge
    Flicker
    @Flicker

    Manny (View Comment):

    Doug Watt: All firearms that can fire a projectile should be considered hot.

    This is what I have been trying to find out about the cartridge in the prop gun. From what the NY Post presented this morning there is a wax wad that keeps the propellant in place. Now wax should turn to jelly under the acceleration, so I just can’t see being a the lethal mechanism. But I just don’t know. I have looked up other types of blank cartridge designs, and they may use plastic, which depending on the plastic could be more lethal. Other questions come to mind. How far away was she standing from the blast? Was there something inside the gun tube that got launched? Could the brass cartridge case have fragmented and pieces launched?

    What a very tragic event. My heart goes out to Ms. Hutchins and her family.

    I know this.  A wax bullet will leave a muzzle only being propelled by a primer, but won’t have the force to even daze a baby rabbit.  I don’t know how I know this.

    A wax bullet under full charge, if it keeps it’s form, cannot do a though and through and injure a second person.  Other types of blank have crimped shut ends and have no wadding at all.  So, these were not standard blanks of any type.

    • #54
  25. Percival Thatcher
    Percival
    @Percival

    kedavis (View Comment):

    Percival (View Comment):

    W Bob (View Comment):

    Percival (View Comment):

    kedavis (View Comment):

    Percival (View Comment):

    kedavis (View Comment):

    Percival (View Comment):
    You do not point the weapon at anyone, ever.

    That probably means they can’t make the movie.

    The angles at which the movies are shot, plus the blocking used for each scene, make “aiming to miss” without appearing to be aiming to miss, not terribly difficult. About the only time that a weapon should come close to being dangerous is if the actor is going to be filmed shooting directly at the camera’s position.

    I’d like to see how this scene gets re-done so that the gun is never really aimed at someone, but I think it would be very boring.

     

    Think about what you actually saw. Bruce Willis pushes off on Dennis Franz. Franz backs off a few steps. Willis fires a submachine gun. Was Franz standing there then? Why? The film editor stitches all that stuff together into a cohesive scene, but the film was done separately. For all we know, Franz was back in his trailer watching the Cubs game and cracking open a cold one when Willis was firing the gun.

    Yes, but the gun was being fired at the camera. Often the director is behind the camera. Was that what happened here? Why else was Baldwin pointing a gun at the director?

    Which gun? The one Willis was firing was slightly to Willis’ right.

    Its looking like there was a real bullet in the gun. If that’s true, then we could be looking at something other than negligence. Why on earth would a real bullet be anywhere on the set?

    Which is what I asked originally. I’ve looked into New Mexico gun laws, and it is an open carry state. It is negligence on Baldwin’s part come what may. The replacement armorer had no motive to load a live round. I don’t think the assistant director or whomever handed Baldwin the gun had a motive either. Would the armorer who was forced off set have one? Has sabotage ever been a labor tactic? Heaven forfend!

     

    If there had been “misfires” on the set previously, someone might have set up what they expected to be another “misfire” to sabotage production without any thought that someone might actually be hurt or killed.

    And  the imprecise language these people use makes my brain itch. “Misfire” means “failed to fire.” If someone pulled the trigger and the gun went off, that is the opposite of a misfire.

    • #55
  26. kidCoder Member
    kidCoder
    @kidCoder

    Percival (View Comment):
    I want to know who had a live round on-set.

    My wife asked, when I explained what the news story was, “So why was there live ammunition anywhere near a movie set?”

    • #56
  27. Manny Coolidge
    Manny
    @Manny

    Flicker (View Comment):

    Manny (View Comment):

    Doug Watt: All firearms that can fire a projectile should be considered hot.

    This is what I have been trying to find out about the cartridge in the prop gun. From what the NY Post presented this morning there is a wax wad that keeps the propellant in place. Now wax should turn to jelly under the acceleration, so I just can’t see being a the lethal mechanism. But I just don’t know. I have looked up other types of blank cartridge designs, and they may use plastic, which depending on the plastic could be more lethal. Other questions come to mind. How far away was she standing from the blast? Was there something inside the gun tube that got launched? Could the brass cartridge case have fragmented and pieces launched?

    What a very tragic event. My heart goes out to Ms. Hutchins and her family.

    I know this. A wax bullet will leave a muzzle only being propelled by a primer, but won’t have the force to even daze a baby rabbit. I don’t know how I know this.

    A wax bullet under full charge, if it keeps it’s form, cannot do a though and through and injure a second person. Other types of blank have crimped shut ends and have no wadding at all. So, these were not standard blanks of any type.

    I imagine it’s possible for one of those crimped front ends to fragment off and propel.  That’s about the only way I could picture this happening.  As to the wax bullet, it’s not really a wax bullet.  It’s a wax disk.  There’s no aerodynamic or lethal penetrating shape.  Like I said earlier, it would probably just spit out like jelly.

    I’m beginning to believe it was a real bullet.

    • #57
  28. BDB Inactive
    BDB
    @BDB

    kedavis (View Comment):

    BDB (View Comment):

    kedavis (View Comment):

    BDB (View Comment):

    kedavis (View Comment):

    Fake John/Jane Galt (View Comment):

    kedavis (View Comment):

    Percival (View Comment):
    You do not point the weapon at anyone, ever.

    That probably means they can’t make the movie.

    Why use any weapons at all? We are talking about an industry that makes realistic looking space ships and monsters. Surely making a realistic weapon that does not actually fire a projectile would not be out of their art.

    I expect real guns are less expensive than CGI.

    Depends how expensive the victim was I guess.

    They don’t figure on things like that, except to the extent they have insurance.

    I suspect they’re going to start.

    Those very rare incidents are likely already figured into insurance. As are aged stars getting heart attacks halfway through, etc.

    You’re either missing or ignoring the point.

    • #58
  29. BDB Inactive
    BDB
    @BDB

    W Bob (View Comment):

    Manny (View Comment):

    Doug Watt: All firearms that can fire a projectile should be considered hot.

    This is what I have been trying to find out about the cartridge in the prop gun. From what the NY Post presented this morning there is a wax wad that keeps the propellant in place. Now wax should turn to jelly under the acceleration, so I just can’t see being a the lethal mechanism. But I just don’t know. I have looked up other types of blank cartridge designs, and they may use plastic, which depending on the plastic could be more lethal. Other questions come to mind. How far away was she standing from the blast? Was there something inside the gun tube that got launched? Could the brass cartridge case have fragmented and pieces launched?

    What a very tragic event. My heart goes out to Ms. Hutchins and her family.

    The same shot apparently went through one victim and into the other. That sounds like a real bullet.

    Is that reported somewhere, or just supposition?  I agree that it sounds plausible, but… etc

    • #59
  30. BDB Inactive
    BDB
    @BDB

    kedavis (View Comment):
    misfire

    Those are not misfires.  Not in the gun world.  Maybe in the BS media world, where every time Kerry speaks, it’s a “misfire”.

    • #60
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