Ricochet is the best place on the internet to discuss the issues of the day, either through commenting on posts or writing your own for our active and dynamic community in a fully moderated environment. In addition, the Ricochet Audio Network offers over 50 original podcasts with new episodes released every day.
Milley’s Betrayal Will End in Fire
Saw this article today on MSN: “U.S. top general secretly called China over fears Trump could spark war – report“
According to the new book by Bob Woodward and Robert Costa, General Milley twice called his counterpart in the PLA to let him know that the US was not going to launch a war against China and, if we were, he would call him and let him know. He called him twice. Once before the election, and again on January 8 after this exchange with Speaker Pelosi:
“He’s crazy. You know he’s crazy,” Pelosi told Milley in the call, according to the report.
According to the cited call transcript, the general replied, “I agree with you on everything.”
To say that I find this troubling is an understatement. I am OK with there being a call to lower tensions. That seems to be appropriate (to an extent), but promising to call the leader of the PLA and let them know that an attack was imminent seems to be very, very wrong. I’m hesitant to use the “T” word to describe such an action, but it sure seems like we are getting close to that level of behavior.
I was chatting with a friend and mentioned to them that there was a cabal of people who went to great lengths to rig the election as reported by that right-wing agitprop rag Time Magazine. They felt their actions were completely normal and OK. Of course, they also think that Trump is the worst President ever. I wonder if we can ever be a whole country again? I think we cannot and the carnage that will result from that will be intense.
As for General Milley…I am not sure what punishment is appropriate, but that he is still in uniform at this point is a problem. That of those that voted on the poll at the end of the article 46% (the plurality) strongly supported his actions is another data point that we are no longer a single country with common goals, but rather two increasingly disparate people intermixed with each other who cannot talk about our problems much less come to any sort of resolution. Frankly, I am not even sure how I would feel about someone who strongly supported Gen Milley’s actions. I took a survey for some company recently and one set of questions asked if I think that people who were Republicans, or Democrats, or Socialists, or various other ideologies/parties could be good people. I answered in the affirmative and I still believe that. I wonder how many of my fellow R> members feel that way? I wonder how much longer I will feel that way? That makes me quite sad.
What is the end result…a cleansing fire, but one that leaves the US a tattered husk and leaves someone like the Chinese ruling the world. To me, that is a bad outcome. Alas, I think it is the inevitable one.
Published in Politics
Oh, he found out right on time :-)
My first reaction was hard to describe. Then I thought, oh wait, this is from Woodward. I need to see some evidence.
But then Milley spoke. There’s a technique for analyzing the words a person chooses. It’s usually called Word Analysis, and it was really made into a science by no less than the Moussed. It is often more revealing than polygraph, VSA, whatever.
Never mind what he thought he was saying. His choice of words shouted, “I did it.”
From the strictly legal standpoint, I recall vaguely that one element of the crime of treason is that it has to be committed with a declared enemy. Since the U.S. is not (officially) at war with China, it may not be possible to charge him with it. However, stepping back from the finer points of the law, what he did was treason.
I know we have at least one JAG or former JAG among us. Comment on this latter? I can’t find a reference that I like.
Gary, please consider what you are implying here. I see your flags over mild implications and jokes that went over your head, and now you are implying that Trump was about to turn into a dictator.
It’s very easy for an official to make up justifications for assuming more power. We have seen this in Public Health, with Fauci being elevated to godhood and governors micromanaging the lives of their constituents. A conservative would know this. Someone who studied Reagan’s presidency should know this. (Hint: “I’m in charge here”)
Also, the 1905 Russian Revolution was not run by Bolsheviks. A lot of the people who wanted reform Russia and kick out the Tsar in 1917 were promptly murdered by Lenin’s crew, just like you and your NeverTrump friends would be butchered by the Left. You know, the Left that is actually subverting the Constitution, democratic norms, and our alliances?
By sucking up to the enemy? Sounds more like treason than prudent action . . .
Bank Manager to Bank Robber: Listen we have a security guard around here who shoots first and asks questions later. He’s crazy. So when you come in, if I clear my throat, that means he’s coming and to be careful. Got it?
I can kind of justify the action of the SecDef under Nixon. The idea was to make sure there was thought put into whether this was a “lawful” order.
The difference between SecDef under Nixon and Milley under Trump is huge. First SecDef is a civilian appointed by the President, Milley is a General. Under Nixon there was still civilian control over the military.
Next the SecDef’s discussions and actions were internal. He was speaking to the Generals that he supervised. Americans talking to Americans. Milley went to a foreign power. ( we can debate whether they are an enemy but they are not fellow Americans)
Our system puts the President and only the President in charge of foreign relations (with congressional oversight) for a reason. We need to speak with one voice. When future Presidents make statements or propose actions should the Chinese or Russian Ambassadors check with the top Generals see what the real policy is?
What other areas can the Generals substitute their judgement for that of the elected leaders?
Reporting at Fox News indicates that Woodward and Costa grossly mischaracterized the call Milley made. It was not a secret one on one conversation with a Chicom general made specifically because of Trump but one of a regular series of communications made with China and other nations in which 15 people were participating from the US government in a conference call that included members of the administration. The proceedings of these calls were routinely shared with the intelligence and other departments of the federal government.
The other allegation, that Milley sought to prevent Trump from launching nukes, was similarly distorted. Milley sought to be in the loop if Trump made such a decision, not that he wanted to countermand it. Presumably he wanted the opportunity to talk Trump out of attacking.
So, basically the quality of reporting we’ve come to expect of Bob Woodward.
How do I see this ending, with a couple destroyed carrier battlegroups in the South China sea. With 20-30000 dead American Serviceman at the bottom of the ocean.
We will become a whole country, if ever, only after the “carnage”. I am praying that the carnage is not Civil War levels (as a percentage of the population), but I have no hopes of it being nothing.
If the NT see no problem with what Milley did, then there is no hope for them to exist in a common political movement with me.
If the carnage comes, it won’t like the Civil War. There won’t be armies of two nation-states meeting in pitched battle. It will be The Troubles mixed with the Yugoslav wars. And the carnage levels will depend on how far the Feds are willing to go.
I was referring to the numbers not to the strategy. But if it is the numbers of The Troubles and the Yugoslav wars, I am much more hopeful.
I don’t like or support Milley, but I will never trust this kind of report – especially coming from Woodward. This is more likely an internal fight. There’s good analysis here
From Conservative Treehouse:
Link to CTH article
The linked report was before Milley confirmed the Woodward story (just with his own spin but non-denial).
Things are not right with these United States. 😞
So what the heck do we do if a President becomes mentally ill? I was terrified that Trump would try to declare martial law or would start a war between the election and January 20th, especially after the capitol riot on January 6th. I may be in a minority in Ricochet with that fear, but I don’t think that that I am in an overall minority in the nation.
Nixon was drinking heavily before he resigned. What if he had “pressed the button” while drunk?
Trump doesn’t drink, but clearly he was not a well person after the election. What was to stop him from starting a war, attacking Iran, or shooting off nukes.
In the armed forces, a commander can be relieved of duty under very limited circumstances. We need to think seriously, what would we do if a President literally becomes mentally ill? Assemble the cabinet? Hard to do in a couple of minutes after a President launches nukes.
The Constitution is not a suicide pact. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Constitution_is_not_a_suicide_pact. People do all sorts of things when they are angry. What then?
No one ever thought that hijackers would fly planes into buildings until they did. We have never had a President like Trump, and hopefully we never will have one again. But what if?
It would be helpful if they argue the points with me. They have the right to flag stuff, but if it meets the CofC, it is hard to see how to resolve this. I am sorry that I stir up so much work for the mods who are all volunteers.
Alexander Haig who kept threatening to resign until Reagan accepted his resignation!
Lenin said that the 1917 revolution could not have happened without the 1905 revolution that failed. The Left is pretty pissed at the NT’s who have criticized Biden and Afghanistan.
Great points. Thanks for your input.
Is that your personal assessment, or was it hearsay from your sources whose credibility has been debunked?
Gary, you’ve gotten so many things wrong in politics. Ever consider more humility?
I depends on what you mean by mentally ill. A psychotic break? People will have to do what they have to do, perhaps administer a right cross and strap him down to a stretcher. Seriously.
But what if anything in Trump’s character did you see that was to mature eyes signs of mental illness?
And since it’s apropos, what do you see in Biden’s behavior that wasn’t generally apparent before the people saw it during the campaign, weighed the consideration of it, accepted it, and went ahead and voted for him?
Please cite your source for this.
I believe a commander of any size unit can be relieved whenever his or her superior believes it must be done. Hell, any service member can be relieved of duty. Saw an LE Flight Chief go out to the gate and relieve the gate guard of duty. Demanded the airman’s weapon, etc., then had him escorted to the barracks.
Actually I think this was the ending of Clancy novel years before the real life event. In fact, it might have given the terrorists the idea.
You are not considering either of these men’s character. Nixon protected the wrong people and might have had a paranoid streak, but he was a man of good character, and that’s why he resigned.
Trump is also a good man, though you don’t seem to recognize that. There was no chance that he would have launched nukes.
There is a process for that. And people aren’t stupid. If he goes crazy, someone would stop him. He doesn’t do it alone. The difference with Milley is that Trump was never crazy, never suggested he would ever start a war, and deserved more respect than Milley gave him. Milley gave him Pelosi tainted contempt. Milley still is a pig of a man, declaring support for anti-white racism.
King George III had a period of madness, and if memory serves, had a Regent for a period of time. I think that we can agree that there have been a history of autocrats who have declared war on their own, “I want to invade Russia!” “I want to install communist regime’s in Eastern Europe.” What if?
I have not been a member of the Armed Forces, so I don’t know.
But I know that in Star Trek, the Doctor could state that the Captain was unfit, and that Riker relieved Picard against his will. I remember that in “Mr. Roberts” a 1955 a ship’s captain was relieved of his duties by his executive officer. Hell, if it is in the movies, it must be true!
In “Executive Orders,” Jack Ryan is named as president by acclamation, shortly before a Japanese pilot smashes his plane into the House of Representatives prior to a Joint Session of Congress.
I am looking forward to the new Bob Woodward book coming out next Tuesday. Maybe that will give more information.
Gary, let me (of all people) recommend that you just take a break. I was the all-time flag champion here for a good while.
Sigh. Star Trek is not real, Gary. No captain was relieved in Mr. Roberts, you’re thinking of the Caine Mutiny, which is a very fine book. Don’t rely on movies or books for policy.
I don’t recommend relying on Bob Woodward for unbiased reporting, either.
We are not responsible for your mental health.