Milley’s Betrayal Will End in Fire

 

Saw this article today on MSN: “U.S. top general secretly called China over fears Trump could spark war – report

According to the new book by Bob Woodward and Robert Costa, General Milley twice called his counterpart in the PLA to let him know that the US was not going to launch a war against China and, if we were, he would call him and let him know.  He called him twice.  Once before the election, and again on January 8 after this exchange with Speaker Pelosi:

“He’s crazy. You know he’s crazy,” Pelosi told Milley in the call, according to the report.

According to the cited call transcript, the general replied, “I agree with you on everything.”

To say that I find this troubling is an understatement.  I am OK with there being a call to lower tensions.  That seems to be appropriate (to an extent), but promising to call the leader of the PLA and let them know that an attack was imminent seems to be very, very wrong.  I’m hesitant to use the “T” word to describe such an action, but it sure seems like we are getting close to that level of behavior.

I was chatting with a friend and mentioned to them that there was a cabal of people who went to great lengths to rig the election as reported by that right-wing agitprop rag Time Magazine.  They felt their actions were completely normal and OK.  Of course, they also think that Trump is the worst President ever.  I wonder if we can ever be a whole country again?  I think we cannot and the carnage that will result from that will be intense.

As for General Milley…I am not sure what punishment is appropriate, but that he is still in uniform at this point is a problem.  That of those that voted on the poll at the end of the article 46% (the plurality) strongly supported his actions is another data point that we are no longer a single country with common goals, but rather two increasingly disparate people intermixed with each other who cannot talk about our problems much less come to any sort of resolution.  Frankly, I am not even sure how I would feel about someone who strongly supported Gen Milley’s actions.   I took a survey for some company recently and one set of questions asked if I think that people who were Republicans, or Democrats, or Socialists, or various other ideologies/parties could be good people.  I answered in the affirmative and I still believe that.  I wonder how many of my fellow R> members feel that way?  I wonder how much longer I will feel that way?  That makes me quite sad.

What is the end result…a cleansing fire, but one that leaves the US a tattered husk and leaves someone like the Chinese ruling the world.  To me, that is a bad outcome.  Alas, I think it is the inevitable one.

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  1. Ekosj Member
    Ekosj
    @Ekosj

    When the military usurps the Constitutionally legitimate powers of the civilian elected officials, I think “coup” is the appropriate term. I don’t know what else to call it.

    And I agree with your bleak assessment of our future.   It’s sad, but the Left seems hell-bent of forcing that end.   They are Thelma and Louise at the end of the movie.

    • #1
  2. kedavis Member
    kedavis
    @kedavis

    • #2
  3. Hang On Member
    Hang On
    @HangOn

    It’s Bob Woodward. Why would you believe this narcissistic liar?

    • #3
  4. BDB Coolidge
    BDB
    @BDB

    Hang On (View Comment):

    It’s Bob Woodward. Why would you believe this narcissistic liar?

    This is an own goal, an accidental “admission against interest”, which he presumably (?) thought would redound to Milley’s credit. 

    • #4
  5. Hang On Member
    Hang On
    @HangOn

    BDB (View Comment):

    Hang On (View Comment):

    It’s Bob Woodward. Why would you believe this narcissistic liar?

    This is an own goal, an accidental “admission against interest”, which he presumably (?) thought would redound to Milley’s credit.

    You may see it that way. I doubt 50% of the population doesn’t. 

    • #5
  6. CACrabtree Coolidge
    CACrabtree
    @CACrabtree

    Yeah, Tucker’s talking about it right now.

    Seems like the entire faculty of West Point needs to be cleaned out.  Clearly, they have lost their way.

    • #6
  7. BDB Coolidge
    BDB
    @BDB

    Hang On (View Comment):

    BDB (View Comment):

    Hang On (View Comment):

    It’s Bob Woodward. Why would you believe this narcissistic liar?

    This is an own goal, an accidental “admission against interest”, which he presumably (?) thought would redound to Milley’s credit.

    You may see it that way. I doubt 50% of the population doesn’t.

    Not sure what your point is.  Woodward is a dyed-in-the-wool lefty still trying to relive that winning touchdown from high school.  I presume that you agree with at least some of that beyond articles and prepositions.

    Am I supposed to be swayed by what 50% of the population believes (or doesn’t)?  Are you trying to refute a point?  Do you have a point?

    EDIT:  This sounds combative.  I’m more confused and curious than combative.

    • #7
  8. No Caesar Thatcher
    No Caesar
    @NoCaesar

    My bias is to believe this is true, because I despise Milley for a long list of reasons, and believe he should be Court-Martialed.   However, I saw a report that Richard Grenell is sceptical.  So I reserve judgement.  If the report is true then Milley’s punishment should be the maximum that the UCMJ allows.

    • #8
  9. BDB Coolidge
    BDB
    @BDB

    No Caesar (View Comment):

    My bias is to believe this is true, because I despise Milley for a long list of reasons, and believe he should be Court-Martialed. However, I saw a report that Richard Grenell is sceptical. So I reserve judgement. If the report is true then Milley’s punishment should be the maximum that the UCMJ allows.

    Likewise.  I would also be free with the T word if it were not sourced from (apparently) Woodward alone.  I am tentative on the whole thing, but it certainly fits with my understanding of the pattern of facts — Milley defected shortly after the church photo (if not before), he is certainly leftist-claptrap-aligned, and his history of inappropriate phone calls keeps popping up — by which I mean having conversations with Pelosi or Pence or whomever, which he should have only had with the President.

    So I, like you, am biased to believe this.  I won’t wait for confessions and DNA evidence (so to speak) — that’s just allowing yourself to be stonewalled — but for now, I’m highly inclined to believe, but giving it some time.

    The fact that it’s Woodward cuts both ways.  He’s a liar.  But he’s their liar.  And at any rate, he talks to more people than I do.  He has the ability to report many more true facts than I do, and to be believed when he reports false ones.  But it doesn’t seem that he would fabricate this (against his lefty interest), which Bayes says makes it more believable, not less.

    • #9
  10. MarciN Member
    MarciN
    @MarciN

    Hang On (View Comment):

    It’s Bob Woodward. Why would you believe this narcissistic liar?

    A friend said today, “Woodward is probably reporting it accurately because he thinks it makes Trump look bad.” That might explain this revelation. 

    • #10
  11. Dbroussa Coolidge
    Dbroussa
    @Dbroussa

    CACrabtree (View Comment):

    Yeah, Tucker’s talking about it right now.

    Seems like the entire faculty of West Point needs to be cleaned out. Clearly, they have lost their way.

    I am even more convinced that every General officer in the US Military needs to be cashiered, immediately. 

    • #11
  12. Stad Coolidge
    Stad
    @Stad

    Even that slimeball Vindman thinks Milley should go:

    https://www.newsmax.com/john-gizzi/vindman-milley-trump-china/2021/09/14/id/1036427/

     

    • #12
  13. Gary Robbins Reagan
    Gary Robbins
    @GaryRobbins

    Prior to Nixon resigning there was a fear that Nixon could launch a nuclear weapon in a “Wag the Dog” strategy.  The Secretary of Defense prudently inserted himself in the launch decision matrix, and commanders were told to check with the SecDef before launching nukes.  

    Trump’s behavior after the election was clearly so erratic, that it was prudent for Milley to intervene.  Before Trump, we had a history since George Washington and John Adam’s we had the unbroken history of incumbent presidents peacefully leaving office, and then attending their successor’s inauguration.  Trump broke the mold.

    The unsuccessful Russian 1905 Revolution presaged the 1917 Russian Revolution.  Hitler’s unsuccessful 1923 Beer Hall Putsch presaged his 1935 accession to office, even though the Nazis had not won a majority of votes in the preceding election.

    • #13
  14. philo Member
    philo
    @philo

    Trump’s behavior after the election was clearly so erratic, that it was prudent for Milley to intervene.

    History by “officially sanctioned narrative” proves a shortcut to actually thinking once again. Clearly. 

    • #14
  15. BDB Coolidge
    BDB
    @BDB

    There is absolutely no scenario in which the CJCS should conspire with his Chinese opposite number.  Why is the US military arrogating to itself not only the State Department’s job, but the White House’s as well?

    • #15
  16. Dbroussa Coolidge
    Dbroussa
    @Dbroussa

    kedavis (View Comment):

    That you reference the greatest SciFi show of all time is soooo relevant.  I guess I wonder who will be our Vir?

    • #16
  17. Dbroussa Coolidge
    Dbroussa
    @Dbroussa

    Gary Robbins (View Comment):

    Prior to Nixon resigning there was a fear that Nixon could launch a nuclear weapon in a “Wag the Dog” strategy. The Secretary of Defense prudently inserted himself in the launch decision matrix, and commanders were told to check with the SecDef before launching nukes.

    In that case, there is a constitutional alignment for that to work.  If the President as Commander in Chief issues an illegal order, then the SecDef is required to not comply.  If the SecDef passes the order on to the commanders then they are required not to follow an illegal order.  The UCMJ clearly stipulates the correct behavior for any service member when issued an illegal order.  They are bound not to obey it else they are guilty of misconduct.

    The SecDef is in the chain of command, the CJCS isn’t.  General Milley cannot issue orders to the troops and thus inserting himself into the chain of command would be in violation of the Constitution.  

    Trump’s behavior after the election was clearly so erratic, that it was prudent for Milley to intervene. Before Trump, we had a history since George Washington and John Adam’s we had the unbroken history of incumbent presidents peacefully leaving office, and then attending their successor’s inauguration. Trump broke the mold.

    That is bull crap.  General Milley had no legitimate reason to intervene and was contravening the Constitution to do so.  His job is NEVER to make US foreign policy as he is a uniformed member of the Armed Forces, even if he was directed by the Speaker of the House, or the Vice President.  That ANYONE supports this shows an ignorance of the concept of civilian control of the military.  Then again, these are the same people that felt that the military should have stepped in and forcibly removed Trump, and anyone who wants a military coup, well, the code of conduct limits from saying waht I think about them.

    The unsuccessful Russian 1905 Revolution presaged the 1917 Russian Revolution. Hitler’s unsuccessful 1923 Beer Hall Putsch presaged his 1935 accession to office, even though the Nazis had not won a majority of votes in the preceding election.

    The abject insanity that the Anti-Trump and the Left evinced in 2016 and again in 2020 has laid the groundwork for the next coup.  We evidently had one this January, what happens when President Biden/Harris/etc. doesn’t want to give up their power?  If Trump were to win the election in 2024 would they willingly give up power?  They are already laying the groundwork to say that DeSantis is just as bad, if not worse after all.  When every Republican candidate is, literally, Satan to them…why would they give up power?

    • #17
  18. Dbroussa Coolidge
    Dbroussa
    @Dbroussa

    BDB (View Comment):

    There is absolutely no scenario in which the CJCS should conspire with his Chinese opposite number. Why is the US military arrogating to itself not only the State Department’s job, but the White House’s as well?

    Especially as he is not in the chain of command.  In effect he is saying that he would warn the Chinese that an attack was coming which would likely cause US casualties that were his fault.

    • #18
  19. Flicker Coolidge
    Flicker
    @Flicker

    Dbroussa (View Comment):

    Trump’s behavior after the election was clearly so erratic, that it was prudent for Milley to intervene. Before Trump, we had a history since George Washington and John Adam’s we had the unbroken history of incumbent presidents peacefully leaving office, and then attending their successor’s inauguration. Trump broke the mold.

    That is bull crap.  General Milley had no legitimate reason to intervene and was contravening the Constitution to do so.  His job is NEVER to make US foreign policy as he is a uniformed member of the Armed Forces, even if he was directed by the Speaker of the House, or the Vice President.  That ANYONE supports this shows an ignorance of the concept of civilian control of the military.  Then again, these are the same people that felt that the military should have stepped in and forcibly removed Trump, and anyone who wants a military coup, well, the code of conduct limits from saying waht I think about them.

    Isn’t it funny that the people most invested in the rule of law are the most dismissive of the rule of law when it fits their personal fancies?

    • #19
  20. Flicker Coolidge
    Flicker
    @Flicker

    BDB (View Comment):

    There is absolutely no scenario in which the CJCS should conspire with his Chinese opposite number. Why is the US military arrogating to itself not only the State Department’s job, but the White House’s as well?

    But this is the opposite of what I thought.  I thought the CJCS is in fact the top military commander and the head of foreign policy*.  Did I get this wrong?  If this isn’t so, the Milley should be in a lot of trouble.  (*It’s in the Constitution somewhere.)

    • #20
  21. Tex929rr Coolidge
    Tex929rr
    @Tex929rr

    The fact that Woodward reported it made it questionable to me – but today the DoD spokesman won’t deny it and another General says the story “lacks context”.  I now think it’s completely true and even more horrifying than it seemed at first.  

    • #21
  22. BDB Coolidge
    BDB
    @BDB

    Tex929rr (View Comment):

    The fact that Woodward reported it made it questionable to me – but today the DoD spokesman won’t deny it and another General says the story “lacks context”. I now think it’s completely true and even more horrifying than it seemed at first.

    Good ear.  “Context” arguments are as close to confirmation as a lot of things get these days.

    • #22
  23. kedavis Member
    kedavis
    @kedavis

    BDB (View Comment):

    Tex929rr (View Comment):

    The fact that Woodward reported it made it questionable to me – but today the DoD spokesman won’t deny it and another General says the story “lacks context”. I now think it’s completely true and even more horrifying than it seemed at first.

    Good ear. “Context” arguments are as close to confirmation as a lot of things get these days.

    That and “no controlling legal authority.”

    • #23
  24. MWD B612 "Dawg" Member
    MWD B612 "Dawg"
    @danok1

    Gary Robbins (View Comment):
    The unsuccessful Russian 1905 Revolution presaged the 1917 Russian Revolution.  Hitler’s unsuccessful 1923 Beer Hall Putsch presaged his 1935 accession to office, even though the Nazis had not won a majority of votes in the preceding election.

    Gary, you do realize that the closest the US has come to fascist rule happened under a Democratic president, right? I suggest you study the Wilson administrations. Nothing Trump (or Nixon for that matter) did was even in the same league as things Woody (and later Edith, in Woody’s name) did on a regular basis.

    • #24
  25. BDB Coolidge
    BDB
    @BDB

    Front Page!

    • #25
  26. Skyler Coolidge
    Skyler
    @Skyler

    Hang On (View Comment):

    It’s Bob Woodward. Why would you believe this narcissistic liar?

    That’s a fair question.  There’s usually an element of truth to his yarns.  In this case he describes Trump as screaming and out of control as part of Milley’s logic for his perfidy.  Trump is never out of control and might mock and taunt people, but he is not a screamer.  To me, it’s a way to make both the military and Trump look bad.  

    • #26
  27. Skyler Coolidge
    Skyler
    @Skyler

    Gary Robbins (View Comment):
    Trump’s behavior after the election was clearly so erratic

    He was only erratic if you believed Nancy Pelosi.  Which I’m sure you do.

    • #27
  28. Skyler Coolidge
    Skyler
    @Skyler

    Dbroussa (View Comment):
    That is bull crap.  General Milley had no legitimate reason to intervene and was contravening the Constitution to do so.  His job is NEVER to make US foreign policy as he is a uniformed member of the Armed Forces, even if he was directed by the Speaker of the House, or the Vice President.  That ANYONE supports this shows an ignorance of the concept of civilian control of the military. 

    Amen.

    • #28
  29. Richard Easton Coolidge
    Richard Easton
    @RichardEaston

    Skyler (View Comment):

    Dbroussa (View Comment):
    That is bull crap. General Milley had no legitimate reason to intervene and was contravening the Constitution to do so. His job is NEVER to make US foreign policy as he is a uniformed member of the Armed Forces, even if he was directed by the Speaker of the House, or the Vice President. That ANYONE supports this shows an ignorance of the concept of civilian control of the military.

    Amen.

    When Iran destroyed an unmanned US drone, Trump refused to strike back in an attack which might cause casualties. The idea that he would have launched an unprovoked nuclear strike on China is preposterous.

    • #29
  30. CACrabtree Coolidge
    CACrabtree
    @CACrabtree

    Richard Easton (View Comment):

    Skyler (View Comment):

    Dbroussa (View Comment):
    That is bull crap. General Milley had no legitimate reason to intervene and was contravening the Constitution to do so. His job is NEVER to make US foreign policy as he is a uniformed member of the Armed Forces, even if he was directed by the Speaker of the House, or the Vice President. That ANYONE supports this shows an ignorance of the concept of civilian control of the military.

    Amen.

    When Iran destroyed an unmanned US drone, Trump refused to strike back in an attack which might cause casualties. The idea that he would have launched an unprovoked nuclear strike on China is preposterous.

    But Trump still wasn’t afraid to drop the hammer as Qasem Soleimani found out (a bit too late).

    • #30