Over The Top and Completely Useless

Who says we don’t break news on this show? The whole gang is back this week, and they’re joined by National Review’s senior political correspondent, Jim Geraghty for a long chat on Republicans leaving the party, fealty to you-know-who, and an update on Wuhan lab theories. Then, Elliot Abrams, who’s most recently served as President Trump’s Special Representative to Venezuela and Iran; joins to discuss  They Israel’s ongoing fight with Hamas and speculate on how it might conclude, while marveling at the strength of the Abraham Accords (negotiated at the direction of you-know-who). Ricochet member  @MarkAlexander gets the coveted Lileks Post of The Week® badge for his post My Shakespeare Confession  and Rob and James mull the wisdom of a million dollar vaccine lottery.

Song from this week’s episode: Bad Blood by Taylor Swift.

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  1. Vince Guerra Inactive
    Vince Guerra
    @VinceGuerra

    ToryWarWriter (View Comment):

    There is a reason some people like Rob Long are never going to run for office. Building a coalition as Peter Robinson started to point out is hard.

    Principled stands are for people who dont want to win elections.

    Also Liz Chaney is not a conservative.

    Like Trump, and Reagan?

    Rush Limbaugh consistently expressed that the American people will always respond in the positive to moral clarity based on first principles, and that there is no compromising with those who don’t possess them. They (the Longs and Cheneys) are a cancer on conservativism. You simply have to defeat them.

    • #91
  2. RufusRJones Member
    RufusRJones
    @RufusRJones

    Why do people vote populist and socialist?

     

     

    Click into it and watch the short video.

    • #92
  3. RufusRJones Member
    RufusRJones
    @RufusRJones

    Gary Robbins (View Comment):
    There are two groups of Republicans who voted for Biden.  There are those who have abandoned conservatism.   The second group are Biden Republicans.  The Biden Republicans are quite reachable if Trump is not nominated in 2024.

    It wasn’t worth it. It is not going to net out. Are you familiar with O’Sullivan’s law? It’s real. 

    Please start talking about public policy.

    • #93
  4. Gary Robbins Member
    Gary Robbins
    @GaryRobbins

    Henry Racette (View Comment):

    Gary Robbins (View Comment):
    Would you have a problem with “GOPt” for Trump Republicans now that they are a minority of the party?

    How about we simply start making snide sexually laden comments about each other’s mother? Wouldn’t that be an easier way to foster warm feelings and a sense that we’re all in this together?

    Jesus. Henry. Christ.

    I would be very happy to not use the GOPt moniker if other folks stopped labeling me as a GOPe, or a RINO.

    • #94
  5. RufusRJones Member
    RufusRJones
    @RufusRJones

    Gary Robbins (View Comment):

    Henry Racette (View Comment):

    Gary Robbins (View Comment):
    Would you have a problem with “GOPt” for Trump Republicans now that they are a minority of the party?

    How about we simply start making snide sexually laden comments about each other’s mother? Wouldn’t that be an easier way to foster warm feelings and a sense that we’re all in this together?

    Jesus. Henry. Christ.

    I would be very happy to not use the GOPt moniker if other folks stopped labeling me as a GOPe, or a RINO.

    Don’t take it so personal. It’s not a big deal. You have a set of beliefs, that I have tried to explain to you are wrong and you fit in that category. The GOP from 1988 to the present at least is not what you think it is.

    • #95
  6. Gary Robbins Member
    Gary Robbins
    @GaryRobbins

    Henry Racette (View Comment):

    Blue Yeti (View Comment):

    Henry Racette (View Comment):
    We call this thing The Flagship for a reason. It represents the brand, the whole Ricochet/Silent Cal thing, and if one of the three hosts can’t put the interests of the business ahead of his own disgust with, I don’t know, everything Trump/Trump supporter/GOP, then maybe he should take a break. I’m not saying everyone should be in lock-step, but there are limits to the disrespect one should show when one has an interest in the business. It seems both unprofessional and counter-productive, something I might expect from a member but I wouldn’t expect from a pro. You gentlemen host the show together, and this is, I think, hurting the show, and hence the site, and hence the greater cause.

    You are speaking as if the entire membership thinks monolithically on this particular issue. That does not comport with the feedback we receive every week.

    No, I know we don’t all agree, though I do suspect the membership is substantially more pro-Trump than anti-Trump, like the Republican party itself. 

    Actually this is no longer true.  This month the statistics flipped.  In the past, when asked if they were more aligned with Trump or the Republican Party, Trump won.  This month, 50% of Republicans identified more with the Republican Party and 44% identified more with Trump.  I suspect that allegiance to Trump will continue to leach away.  Of course if Trump is indicted, this will accelerate the decline in his popularity.

    • #96
  7. RufusRJones Member
    RufusRJones
    @RufusRJones

    Gary Robbins (View Comment):

    Henry Racette (View Comment):

    Blue Yeti (View Comment):

    Henry Racette (View Comment):
    We call this thing The Flagship for a reason. It represents the brand, the whole Ricochet/Silent Cal thing, and if one of the three hosts can’t put the interests of the business ahead of his own disgust with, I don’t know, everything Trump/Trump supporter/GOP, then maybe he should take a break. I’m not saying everyone should be in lock-step, but there are limits to the disrespect one should show when one has an interest in the business. It seems both unprofessional and counter-productive, something I might expect from a member but I wouldn’t expect from a pro. You gentlemen host the show together, and this is, I think, hurting the show, and hence the site, and hence the greater cause.

    You are speaking as if the entire membership thinks monolithically on this particular issue. That does not comport with the feedback we receive every week.

    No, I know we don’t all agree, though I do suspect the membership is substantially more pro-Trump than anti-Trump, like the Republican party itself.

    Actually this is no longer true. This month the statistics flipped. In the past, when asked if they were more aligned with Trump or the Republican Party, Trump won. This month, 50% of Republicans identified more with the Republican Party and 44% identified more with Trump. I suspect that allegiance to Trump will continue to leach away. Of course if Trump is indicted, this will accelerate the decline in his popularity.

    MAGA policy is what matters. 

    • #97
  8. Gary Robbins Member
    Gary Robbins
    @GaryRobbins

    ToryWarWriter (View Comment):

    James Lileks (View Comment):

    Henry Racette (View Comment):

    It saddens me a little that this particular podcast is public face of Ricochet. It brands the site as something it isn’t. The founders plus James are gifted communicators. They need to try harder.

    Well, help me out here. I don’t pick the guests. To be honest I am tired of Trump talk, period. While it’s obviously still a relevant topic, it goes to the same place every time. I would have to give a four-minute preamble every time the subject came up to explain where I am on the issue, but A) boring, B) who cares, and C) It would probably still result in getting lumped into one of the two binary views. (I got a letter from a guy last week who was so, so disappointed that I had turned into a “Trump forever” guy.)

    Try harder to do what? I’m serious.

    Try harder to tell the above to Rob whenever he starts up one of his anti-trump tirades. Its people like him and Cheney that keep making us have this same old conversation over and over and over again.

    Rob’s so called tirade was in only a twelve minute segment that ended at 19:01.  And Peter and James both pushed back hard.

    • #98
  9. Vince Guerra Inactive
    Vince Guerra
    @VinceGuerra

    Gary Robbins (View Comment):

    Henry Racette (View Comment):

    Blue Yeti (View Comment):

    Henry Racette (View Comment):
    We call this thing The Flagship for a reason. It represents the brand, the whole Ricochet/Silent Cal thing, and if one of the three hosts can’t put the interests of the business ahead of his own disgust with, I don’t know, everything Trump/Trump supporter/GOP, then maybe he should take a break. I’m not saying everyone should be in lock-step, but there are limits to the disrespect one should show when one has an interest in the business. It seems both unprofessional and counter-productive, something I might expect from a member but I wouldn’t expect from a pro. You gentlemen host the show together, and this is, I think, hurting the show, and hence the site, and hence the greater cause.

    You are speaking as if the entire membership thinks monolithically on this particular issue. That does not comport with the feedback we receive every week.

    No, I know we don’t all agree, though I do suspect the membership is substantially more pro-Trump than anti-Trump, like the Republican party itself.

    Actually this is no longer true. This month the statistics flipped. In the past, when asked if they were more aligned with Trump or the Republican Party, Trump won. This month, 50% of Republicans identified more with the Republican Party and 44% identified more with Trump. I suspect that allegiance to Trump will continue to leach away. Of course if Trump is indicted, this will accelerate the decline in his popularity.

    It’s true because Rachel Maddow says it’s true. Dontchaknow? 

    • #99
  10. kedavis Coolidge
    kedavis
    @kedavis

    Gary Robbins (View Comment):
    Of course if Trump is indicted, this will accelerate the decline in his popularity.

    Even if the indictment is BS?  That would just re-emphasize the corruption of the “deep state,” and others who may support it for their own reasons.

    • #100
  11. Django Member
    Django
    @Django

    kedavis (View Comment):

    Gary Robbins (View Comment):
    Of course if Trump is indicted, this will accelerate the decline in his popularity.

    Even if the indictment is BS? That would just re-emphasize the corruption of the “deep state,” and others who may support it for their own reasons.

    That attempt at indictment is intended to scare any politician who supports the MAGA agenda. And in many eyes it will make a martyr of Trump. 

    • #101
  12. RufusRJones Member
    RufusRJones
    @RufusRJones

    Gary Robbins (View Comment):
    Trump is indicted, this will accelerate the decline in his popularity.

    Are you satisfied with the amount of resources the government has used to go after him? If so why? If not why? 

    God help anybody that can’t afford lawyers and lobbyists in this supposed Republic.

    • #102
  13. kedavis Coolidge
    kedavis
    @kedavis

    Django (View Comment):

    kedavis (View Comment):

    Gary Robbins (View Comment):
    Of course if Trump is indicted, this will accelerate the decline in his popularity.

    Even if the indictment is BS? That would just re-emphasize the corruption of the “deep state,” and others who may support it for their own reasons.

    That attempt at indictment is intended to scare any politician who supports the MAGA agenda. And in many eyes it will make a martyr of Trump.

    Too many people believe in the impartiality of the “justice” system, despite the growing evidence, probably the same believe who believe in the integrity of the “election” system, despite the growing evidence.

    • #103
  14. RufusRJones Member
    RufusRJones
    @RufusRJones

    kedavis (View Comment):

    Django (View Comment):

    kedavis (View Comment):

    Gary Robbins (View Comment):
    Of course if Trump is indicted, this will accelerate the decline in his popularity.

    Even if the indictment is BS? That would just re-emphasize the corruption of the “deep state,” and others who may support it for their own reasons.

    That attempt at indictment is intended to scare any politician who supports the MAGA agenda. And in many eyes it will make a martyr of Trump.

    Too many people believe in the impartiality of the “justice” system, despite the growing evidence, probably the same believe who believe in the integrity of the “election” system, despite the growing evidence.

     

     

     

     

    • #104
  15. Henry Racette Member
    Henry Racette
    @HenryRacette

    Gary Robbins (View Comment):

    Henry Racette (View Comment):

    Blue Yeti (View Comment):

    Henry Racette (View Comment):
    We call this thing The Flagship for a reason. It represents the brand, the whole Ricochet/Silent Cal thing, and if one of the three hosts can’t put the interests of the business ahead of his own disgust with, I don’t know, everything Trump/Trump supporter/GOP, then maybe he should take a break. I’m not saying everyone should be in lock-step, but there are limits to the disrespect one should show when one has an interest in the business. It seems both unprofessional and counter-productive, something I might expect from a member but I wouldn’t expect from a pro. You gentlemen host the show together, and this is, I think, hurting the show, and hence the site, and hence the greater cause.

    You are speaking as if the entire membership thinks monolithically on this particular issue. That does not comport with the feedback we receive every week.

    No, I know we don’t all agree, though I do suspect the membership is substantially more pro-Trump than anti-Trump, like the Republican party itself

    Actually this is no longer true.  This month the statistics flipped.  In the past, when asked if they were more aligned with Trump or the Republican Party, Trump won.  This month, 50% of Republicans identified more with the Republican Party and 44% identified more with Trump.  I suspect that allegiance to Trump will continue to leach away.  Of course if Trump is indicted, this will accelerate the decline in his popularity.

    Gary,

    One of the problems with being swept up by emotion, consumed by disgust and contempt, is that it clouds our thinking.

    The poll does not say what you think it says. It doesn’t ask about pro-Trump vs. anti-Trump, which was what I referenced in my comment (I bolded that part for you). As described in the podcast, it asked a different question having to do with which people put first: Trump, or the Republican party.

    Frankly, I think that’s a pointless question to ask, as it’s so ambiguous. What do you do with someone like me, who wants the Republican party to flourish but who saw voting for Trump as good for the nation, who voted for him twice, and who thinks he did a good job as President? If I had to answer such a silly question, I’d have to say that I put the party first, but I’d say that whether we were talking about Trump or Reagan, because that’s what I think is best for the country.

    If Republicans were asked if they were pro-Trump or anti-Trump, and if those were the only two choices (again, it would be a stupid poll), I suspect most would pick pro-Trump. Most of those would probably be people who, like me, don’t want to call ourselves either; we recognize Trump as a mix of good and bad, thought he did a pretty good job, thought he was vastly better than what we have now, think the Republican party needs to learn from this experience and actually take some of what Trump brought to the party to heart, and want us to move on in a more or less united way toward success in 2022 and 2024 in our battle with the progressives.

    Shoot, even Rob was sensible enough to vote for Trump in 2020. Stop trying to fan the flames of internecine strife. Let it go, and let’s work on building the party on the foundational issues about which we agree.

    H.

    • #105
  16. Gary Robbins Member
    Gary Robbins
    @GaryRobbins

    kedavis (View Comment):

    Django (View Comment):

    kedavis (View Comment):

    Gary Robbins (View Comment):
    Of course if Trump is indicted, this will accelerate the decline in his popularity.

    Even if the indictment is BS? That would just re-emphasize the corruption of the “deep state,” and others who may support it for their own reasons.

    That attempt at indictment is intended to scare any politician who supports the MAGA agenda. And in many eyes it will make a martyr of Trump.

    Too many people believe in the impartiality of the “justice” system, despite the growing evidence, probably the same believe who believe in the integrity of the “election” system, despite the growing evidence.

    Fife Symington was an Arizona Republican Governor.  He had also been a developer.  He was convicted of bank fraud in 1997 due to having widely different valuations of property.  After his conviction he was automatically removed as Governor.  Trump has some significant exposure.

    • #106
  17. RufusRJones Member
    RufusRJones
    @RufusRJones

    Gary Robbins (View Comment):
     Trump has some significant exposure.

    I pay very close attention to this topic. They never get him on anything that is old or complex. The IRS has been giving him a continual colonoscopy ever since he took that $1 billion deduction. 

    I actually know about what some of what they are going after him right now. The part I know about has nothing to do with his asset structure. 

    I think you are making a general comment about real estate developers.

    • #107
  18. Django Member
    Django
    @Django

    Henry Racette (View Comment):

    Gary Robbins (View Comment):

    Henry Racette (View Comment):

    Blue Yeti (View Comment):

    Henry Racette (View Comment):
    ,,

    You are speaking as if the entire membership thinks monolithically on this particular issue. That does not comport with the feedback we receive every week.

    No, I know we don’t all agree, though I do suspect the membership is substantially more pro-Trump than anti-Trump, like the Republican party itself.

    Actually this is no longer true. This month the statistics flipped. In the past, when asked if they were more aligned with Trump or the Republican Party, Trump won. This month, 50% of Republicans identified more with the Republican Party and 44% identified more with Trump. I suspect that allegiance to Trump will continue to leach away. Of course if Trump is indicted, this will accelerate the decline in his popularity.

    Gary,

    One of the problems with being swept up by emotion, consumed by disgust and contempt, is that it clouds our thinking.

    The poll does not say what you think it says. It doesn’t ask about pro-Trump vs. anti-Trump, which was what I referenced in my comment (I bolded that part for you). As described in the podcast, it asked a different question having to do with which people put first: Trump, or the Republican party.

    Frankly, I think that’s a pointless question to ask, as it’s so ambiguous. What do you do with someone like me, who wants the Republican party to flourish but who saw voting for Trump as good for the nation, who voted for him twice, and who thinks he did a good job as President? If I had to answer such a silly question, I’d have to say that I put the party first, but I’d say that whether we were talking about Trump or Reagan, because that’s what I think is best for the country.

    If Republicans were asked if they were pro-Trump or anti-Trump, and if those were the only two choices (again, it would be a stupid poll), I suspect most would pick pro-Trump. Most of those would probably be people who, like me, don’t want to call ourselves either; we recognize Trump as a mix of good and bad, thought he did a pretty good job, thought he was vastly better than what we have now, think the Republican party needs to learn from this experience and actually take some of what Trump brought to the party to heart, and want us to move on in a more or less united way toward success in 2022 and 2024 in our battle with the progressives.

    Shoot, even Rob was sensible enough to vote for Trump in 2020. Stop trying to fan the flames of internecine strife. Let it go, and let’s work on building the party on the foundational issues about which we agree.

    H.

    Well said. 

    • #108
  19. kedavis Coolidge
    kedavis
    @kedavis

    Gary Robbins (View Comment):

    kedavis (View Comment):

    Django (View Comment):

    kedavis (View Comment):

    Gary Robbins (View Comment):
    Of course if Trump is indicted, this will accelerate the decline in his popularity.

    Even if the indictment is BS? That would just re-emphasize the corruption of the “deep state,” and others who may support it for their own reasons.

    That attempt at indictment is intended to scare any politician who supports the MAGA agenda. And in many eyes it will make a martyr of Trump.

    Too many people believe in the impartiality of the “justice” system, despite the growing evidence, probably the same believe who believe in the integrity of the “election” system, despite the growing evidence.

    Fife Symington was an Arizona Republican Governor. He had also been a developer. He was convicted of bank fraud in 1997 due to having widely different valuations of property. After his conviction he was automatically removed as Governor. Trump has some significant exposure.

    Anything that comes up now, after he’s already out of office, that wasn’t found and used earlier to stop him from TAKING office – and when Hillary et al were digging full-speed to try and find – I will be highly suspicious of.  And anyone else should be too.

    • #109
  20. RufusRJones Member
    RufusRJones
    @RufusRJones

     

     

     

     

    • #110
  21. kedavis Coolidge
    kedavis
    @kedavis

    RufusRJones (View Comment):

     

     

     

     

    Stuff like this is  partly because people like Biden – and maybe Rob Long too – don’t think anyone would give up working for the mere pittance of only $32,000/year in unemployment.  Maybe they can’t imagine anyone having a job that doesn’t pay at least double or triple that.   So why settle for only $32,000 when all you have to do is write scripts or sign legislation (written by someone else) and give speeches (written by someone else) or whatever, and POOF! you’re getting $100,000 or more?

    • #111
  22. Gary Robbins Member
    Gary Robbins
    @GaryRobbins

    Henry Racette (View Comment):

    Gary Robbins (View Comment):

    Henry Racette (View Comment):

    Blue Yeti (View Comment):

    Henry Racette (View Comment):
    We call this thing The Flagship for a reason. It represents the brand, the whole Ricochet/Silent Cal thing, and if one of the three hosts can’t put the interests of the business ahead of his own disgust with, I don’t know, everything Trump/Trump supporter/GOP, then maybe he should take a break. I’m not saying everyone should be in lock-step, but there are limits to the disrespect one should show when one has an interest in the business. It seems both unprofessional and counter-productive, something I might expect from a member but I wouldn’t expect from a pro. You gentlemen host the show together, and this is, I think, hurting the show, and hence the site, and hence the greater cause.

    You are speaking as if the entire membership thinks monolithically on this particular issue. That does not comport with the feedback we receive every week.

    No, I know we don’t all agree, though I do suspect the membership is substantially more pro-Trump than anti-Trump, like the Republican party itself.

    Actually this is no longer true. This month the statistics flipped. In the past, when asked if they were more aligned with Trump or the Republican Party, Trump won. This month, 50% of Republicans identified more with the Republican Party and 44% identified more with Trump. I suspect that allegiance to Trump will continue to leach away. Of course if Trump is indicted, this will accelerate the decline in his popularity.

    Gary,

    One of the problems with being swept up by emotion, consumed by disgust and contempt, is that it clouds our thinking.

    I am often guilty of that, despite my best efforts.

    The poll does not say what you think it says. It doesn’t ask about pro-Trump vs. anti-Trump, which was what I referenced in my comment (I bolded that part for you). As described in the podcast, it asked a different question having to do with which people put first: Trump, or the Republican party.

    You are right.  I overspoke.  On the other hand, here is the article that I cited.  https://www.businessinsider.com/republicans-support-gop-more-than-trump-poll-2021-4

    The money quote:  

    “For the first time since 2019, NBC polling found supporters of the GOP outnumbered those who said they back Trump more than the party. The poll found 50% of Republicans said they support the GOP more than they support Trump, while 44% said they support the former commander-in-chief more than the Republican party.”

    The article quotes a poll from NBC.  https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/meet-the-press/after-100-days-out-office-trump-s-support-softens-nbc-n1265457

    The money quote there:

    “It’s the first time since July 2019 when party supporters have outnumbered Trump supporters in our poll, and it’s also the first time that party supporters have reached 50 percent on this question.”

    Frankly, I think that’s a pointless question to ask, as it’s so ambiguous. What do you do with someone like me, who wants the Republican party to flourish but who saw voting for Trump as good for the nation, who voted for him twice, and who thinks he did a good job as President? If I had to answer such a silly question, I’d have to say that I put the party first, but I’d say that whether we were talking about Trump or Reagan, because that’s what I think is best for the country.

    If Republicans were asked if they were pro-Trump or anti-Trump, and if those were the only two choices (again, it would be a stupid poll), I suspect most would pick pro-Trump. Most of those would probably be people who, like me, don’t want to call ourselves either; we recognize Trump as a mix of good and bad, thought he did a pretty good job, thought he was vastly better than what we have now, think the Republican party needs to learn from this experience and actually take some of what Trump brought to the party to heart, and want us to move on in a more or less united way toward success in 2022 and 2024 in our battle with the progressives.

    Shoot, even Rob was sensible enough to vote for Trump in 2020. Stop trying to fan the flames of internecine strife. Let it go, and let’s work on building the party on the foundational issues about which we agree.

    I am not trying to fan the flames of internecine strife.  Then again, as the most persistent proponent of my NeverTrumpism, it might appear that way.  

    What I believe will happen in 2024 will be that we have a good chance of winning if we have a successful governor running. 

    I think that members of Congress, save Liz Cheney, have been tarnished by their fealty to Trump, and the six Senators who voted to disenfranchise me as an Arizona voter (such as Cruz and Hawley) are disqualified in my mind, as the Capitol riot can be hung around their necks.  If the person running is Trump or one of his children or Cruz or Hawley, I believe that we will lose.

    H.

    Gary

     

    • #112
  23. Goldwaterwoman Thatcher
    Goldwaterwoman
    @goldwaterwoman

    Vince Guerra (View Comment):
    Peter just became one of the three people who like Gary’s comments. The disconnect between the Podcast and the members is now complete.

    I believe you misunderstood Peter’s like of the comment. He recognizes, as does anyone who’s paid any attention, the majority of  Ricochetti are pro-Trump as Gary’s comments said at the very beginning . That said, Peter (I assume) realizes we have work to do in order to bring the entire party together. If Rob’s comments are any indication, it will be an uphill battle with or without the influence of Trump. Rob constantly refers to the fact that we need more members. It would behoove him to take a long look at the 75,000,000 people who voted for Trump in the 2020 election and do his best to attract a few thousand of them rather than make them feel like they are deplorable. Insulting your customers is no way to run a business.

    • #113
  24. Vince Guerra Inactive
    Vince Guerra
    @VinceGuerra

    Goldwaterwoman (View Comment):

    Vince Guerra (View Comment):
    Peter just became one of the three people who like Gary’s comments. The disconnect between the Podcast and the members is now complete.

    I believe you misunderstood Peter’s like of the comment. He recognizes, as does anyone who’s paid any attention, the majority of Ricochetti are pro-Trump as Gary’s comments said at the very beginning . That said, Peter (I assume) realizes we have work to do in order to bring the entire party together. If Rob’s comments are any indication, it will be an uphill battle with or without the influence of Trump. Rob constantly refers to the fact that we need more members. It would behoove him to take a long look at the 75,000,000 people who voted for Trump in the 2020 election and do his best to attract a few thousand of them rather than make them feel like they are deplorable. Insulting your customers is no way to run a business.

    I have to assume that Peter likes this:

     

    But I would suggest that Rob and I aren’t leaving the Republican Party, while we left the Trump Party long ago, and Never Again Trumpers like Liz Cheney left the Trump Party, after the 2020 election and especially after January 6th.  We are still voters who the Republican Party used to rely up and needs to be able to win back the House, the Senate and the Presidency, all of which we lost in a very short time from November 2018 to January 2021.

    Or you can moan and complain about the apostasy of Rob, Liz Cheney and me, ignoring the profound impact of the Capitol Riot on 1/6 on a vast swatch of voters.

    Which is disconnected from most of the member posts I read daily, from those who knew that the Jan 6th narrative was Bravo Sierra from the start, and who know that the way to fight the Comminust takeover of America isn’t to cast off Trumps legacy but rather to pick up the banner and carry on, and who know the establishment GOP has no interest in doing that. 

    • #114
  25. kedavis Coolidge
    kedavis
    @kedavis

    Gary Robbins (View Comment):

    I am not trying to fan the flames of internecine strife.  Then again, as the most persistent proponent of my NeverTrumpism, it might appear that way.  

    What I believe will happen in 2024 will be that we have a good chance of winning if we have a successful governor running. 

    I think that members of Congress, save Liz Cheney, have been tarnished by their fealty to Trump, and the six Senators who voted to disenfranchise me as an Arizona voter (such as Cruz and Hawley) are disqualified in my mind, as the Capitol riot can be hung around their necks.  If the person running is Trump or one of his children or Cruz or Hawley, I believe that we will lose.

    If one of those is the nominee, and you don’t vote for them, that will be YOU putting anti-Trump, ahead of the Party, and indeed ahead of the country and perhaps even the world.

    • #115
  26. kedavis Coolidge
    kedavis
    @kedavis

    Vince Guerra (View Comment):

    Goldwaterwoman (View Comment):

    Vince Guerra (View Comment):
    Peter just became one of the three people who like Gary’s comments. The disconnect between the Podcast and the members is now complete.

    I believe you misunderstood Peter’s like of the comment. He recognizes, as does anyone who’s paid any attention, the majority of Ricochetti are pro-Trump as Gary’s comments said at the very beginning . That said, Peter (I assume) realizes we have work to do in order to bring the entire party together. If Rob’s comments are any indication, it will be an uphill battle with or without the influence of Trump. Rob constantly refers to the fact that we need more members. It would behoove him to take a long look at the 75,000,000 people who voted for Trump in the 2020 election and do his best to attract a few thousand of them rather than make them feel like they are deplorable. Insulting your customers is no way to run a business.

    I have to assume that Peter likes this:

     

    But I would suggest that Rob and I aren’t leaving the Republican Party, while we left the Trump Party long ago, and Never Again Trumpers like Liz Cheney left the Trump Party, after the 2020 election and especially after January 6th. We are still voters who the Republican Party used to rely up and needs to be able to win back the House, the Senate and the Presidency, all of which we lost in a very short time from November 2018 to January 2021.

    Or you can moan and complain about the apostasy of Rob, Liz Cheney and me, ignoring the profound impact of the Capitol Riot on 1/6 on a vast swatch of voters.

    Which is disconnected from most of the member posts I read daily, from those who knew that the Jan 6th narrative was Bravo Sierra from the start, and who know that the way to fight the Comminust takeover of America isn’t to cast off Trumps legacy but rather to pick up the banner and carry on, and who know the establishment GOP has no interest in doing that.

    Very well put.

    • #116
  27. DJ EJ Member
    DJ EJ
    @DJEJ

    Understanding the anomaly of Trump adding 12 million votes in 2020 to his 2016 total, and that he earned a greater share of African American, Hispanic, and Jewish votes than any Republican in decades, and how to retain those voters and add more in the R column in future elections should be the focus moving forward to the 2022 election. I could care less what Rob and others here who had no part in looking forward and reaching out to these new Republican voters think. We also know it wasn’t Liz Cheney’s* “great” fundraising for the party that drove new minority voters to the R column in 2020. They voted for Trump and his policies. As someone who also voted for those same policies, I want to continue reaching out and adding more voters to this coalition – a coalition of ideas that supersedes skin color.

    I’d like to hear interviews on the podcast that deal with looking forward, that talk about continued outreach to minority voters, and recruiting new candidates (and keeping talented ones who unfortunately lost in 2020, e.g. Kim Klacik, John James, etc.). What does a pollster who’s analyzed the demographics of Republican 2020 voters have to say? What were the issues that drove them to vote for Trump? What do Allen West, Jason Riley, Tim Scott, Candice Owens, Larry Elder (and his great Uncle Tom documentary), Kim Klacik, John James, and others have to say about continued outreach, the upcoming 2022 and 2024 elections, and the walk away/red pill movements? What does Maria Elvira Salazar (Florida) or a Texas Republican think about continued outreach to Hispanic voters and the issues that drove Hispanic voters to Trump in 2020? (I’m not as familiar with these districts and politicians.) What drove a greater number of Jewish voters to Trump in 2020 – was it the Abraham Accords? something else? Who can be interviewed that knows? These are all questions that interest me.

    *Liz Cheney, the RINO’s, the NTs/NATs, etc. they’re all welcome to be backbenchers. Whether they get reelected is between them and the voters in their districts. Their percentage presence in the party (3% to 10%) is about the level of attention they should receive. They’re the past, not the future, and their animus toward Trump is old news, tiresome, and so so so boring. Seriously, get a life.

    • #117
  28. Vince Guerra Inactive
    Vince Guerra
    @VinceGuerra

    DJ EJ (View Comment):
    What were the issues that drove them to vote for Trump? What do Allen West, Jason Riley, Tim Scott, Candice Owens, Larry Elder (and his great Uncle Tom documentary), Kim Klacik, John James, and others have to say about continued outreach, the upcoming 2022 and 2024 elections, and the walk away/red pill movements?

    A great one to ask would be Utah Rep. Burgess Owens. He’s written books on racial politics and history, has a unique perspective having a father who lived through Jim Crow, played in the NFL, and is currently leading the charge against Biden’s policies across the board. 

    • #118
  29. Gary Robbins Member
    Gary Robbins
    @GaryRobbins

    kedavis (View Comment):

    Gary Robbins (View Comment):

    I am not trying to fan the flames of internecine strife. Then again, as the most persistent proponent of my NeverTrumpism, it might appear that way.

    What I believe will happen in 2024 will be that we have a good chance of winning if we have a successful governor running.

    I think that members of Congress, save Liz Cheney, have been tarnished by their fealty to Trump, and the six Senators who voted to disenfranchise me as an Arizona voter (such as Cruz and Hawley) are disqualified in my mind, as the Capitol riot can be hung around their necks. If the person running is Trump or one of his children or Cruz or Hawley, I believe that we will lose.

    If one of those is the nominee, and you don’t vote for them, that will be YOU putting anti-Trump, ahead of the Party, and indeed ahead of the country and perhaps even the world.

    I have voted in every Presidential election since 1972, which is 13 elections.  I voted Democrat in 1972 but was a college student, so that can be forgiven.  In 1976, I voted Libertarian as I progressed from being a Democrat to a Republican.  In 1980, 1984, 1988, I proudly and loudly voted Republican.  In 1992, I was upset by H.W. increasing taxes, betraying the Reagan Revolution, and voted Libertarian.  (That was a mistake, and I regret that vote.  I should have voted for H.W.)  In 1996, 2000, 2004, 2008, 2012 I proudly and loudly voted Republican.  In 2016, I could not bring myself to vote for Hillary and I voted for Evan McMullin.  In 2020, I voted for Biden.

    That is voting Republican 8 times, Third Party 3 times, and Democrat 2 times.  I voted for Biden as a last resort.  I suspected that Trump was going to act as he did after the 2020 election.  With the 1/6 Capitol Riot and Trump withholding aid for 3 hours, I feel fully vindicated and justified for my 2020 vote.  What is most important to me is not Pro-Life, Pro-Gun, Pro-National Defense, Pro-Growth.  What is most important to me is the Rule of Law.  Trump is the worst President as to Rule of Law.  I literally had no choice but to vote for Biden.  I see Trump as an existential danger to the Republic and the Republican Party.

    I want to vote for a Republican in 2024.  The Republican Party is my home.  I believe in limited government, a strong national defense, low taxes, low regulations, free trade and the Rule of Law.  If it is Trump, I will vote for the Democrat.  If it is a Trump child, or Hawley or Cruz who voted to take my vote away, I don’t know how I will vote.  If we have Tim Scott, Liz Cheney, Larry Hogan or Doug Ducey as our nominee I will loudly and proudly vote Republican.

    • #119
  30. kedavis Coolidge
    kedavis
    @kedavis

    Gary Robbins (View Comment):

    kedavis (View Comment):

    Gary Robbins (View Comment):

    What I believe will happen in 2024 will be that we have a good chance of winning if we have a successful governor running.

    I think that members of Congress, save Liz Cheney, have been tarnished by their fealty to Trump, and the six Senators who voted to disenfranchise me as an Arizona voter (such as Cruz and Hawley) are disqualified in my mind, as the Capitol riot can be hung around their necks. If the person running is Trump or one of his children or Cruz or Hawley, I believe that we will lose.

    If one of those is the nominee, and you don’t vote for them, that will be YOU putting anti-Trump, ahead of the Party, and indeed ahead of the country and perhaps even the world.

    I have voted in every Presidential election since 1972, which is 13 elections. I voted Democrat in 1972 but was a college student, so that can be forgiven. In 1976, I voted Libertarian as I progressed from being a Democrat to a Republican. In 1980, 1984, 1988, I proudly and loudly voted Republican. In 1992, I was upset by H.W. increasing taxes, betraying the Reagan Revolution, and voted Libertarian. (That was a mistake, and I regret that vote. I should have voted for H.W.) In 1996, 2000, 2004, 2008, 2012 I proudly and loudly voted Republican. In 2016, I could not bring myself to vote for Hillary and I voted for Evan McMullin. In 2020, I voted for Biden.

    That is voting Republican 8 times, Third Party 3 times, and Democrat 2 times. I voted for Biden as a last resort. I suspected that Trump was going to act as he did after the 2020 election. With the 1/6 Capitol Riot and Trump withholding aid for 3 hours, I feel fully vindicated and justified for my 2020 vote. What is most important to me is not Pro-Life, Pro-Gun, Pro-National Defense, Pro-Growth. What is most important to me is the Rule of Law. Trump is the worst President as to Rule of Law. I literally had no choice but to vote for Biden. I see Trump as an existential danger to the Republic and the Republican Party.

    I want to vote for a Republican in 2024. The Republican Party is my home. I believe in limited government, a strong national defense, low taxes, low regulations, free trade and the Rule of Law. If it is Trump, I will vote for the Democrat. If it is a Trump child, or Hawley or Cruz who voted to take my vote away, I don’t know how I will vote. If we have Tim Scott, Liz Cheney, Larry Hogan or Doug Ducey as our nominee I will loudly and proudly vote Republican.

    Like I said.  That is you putting yourself ahead of the Party, and even the Country, which is what you accuse “Trumpists” of.

    • #120
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