Over The Top and Completely Useless

Who says we don’t break news on this show? The whole gang is back this week, and they’re joined by National Review’s senior political correspondent, Jim Geraghty for a long chat on Republicans leaving the party, fealty to you-know-who, and an update on Wuhan lab theories. Then, Elliot Abrams, who’s most recently served as President Trump’s Special Representative to Venezuela and Iran; joins to discuss  They Israel’s ongoing fight with Hamas and speculate on how it might conclude, while marveling at the strength of the Abraham Accords (negotiated at the direction of you-know-who). Ricochet member  @MarkAlexander gets the coveted Lileks Post of The Week® badge for his post My Shakespeare Confession  and Rob and James mull the wisdom of a million dollar vaccine lottery.

Song from this week’s episode: Bad Blood by Taylor Swift.

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Boll & Branch

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  1. Django Member
    Django
    @Django

    Gary Robbins (View Comment):

    Django (View Comment):

    Henry Racette (View Comment):

    The world would be a better place if we resisted the temptation to label and divide our own movement. Labels are stupid tools, in that they slap whatever vague and inconsistent list of attributes they represent to any given individual onto whatever you stick them on. I’d get rid of “GOPe” for starters, because it says God-knows-what about God-knows-whom, and does so in a particularly dopey fashion. “RINO” is past its sell-by as well, and for the same reason.

    If you’re going to go about the business of gutting your own party, at least have the good sense to do it with a razor instead of an axe.

    Rob habitually accuses everyone in sight — Americans, Republicans, “Trump supporters” — of whatever moral deficiency he deems damnable at the moment. It’s a kind of hyperbole not unlike that of our recently departed President; maybe it’s endemic in the entertainment industry. I don’t know. But it’s doing the same kind of thing as using labels irresponsibly, neither accurate nor charitable.

     

    .…


    .

    “GOPe” is short-hand for Grand Old Party Establishment and is quite specific, unless of course, you think there is no GOP Establishment, in which case you don’t live in the real world.

    “RINO” is short-hand for those who claim membership in the GOP — notice I did not say “GOPe” — but who support Democrats and stereotypical Democrat party positions.

    I don’t see anything unreasonable or difficult to understand about the terminology.

    Would you have a problem with “GOPt” for Trump Republicans now that they are a minority of the party?

    They are not a minority, but beyond that point, I have no problem with the term. I’m not one of those snowflakes walking around looking for a reason to be offended. BTW, I am not a member of any branch of the GOP.

    As Rob said, the GOP can go to Hell as far as I am concerned. I haven’t voted for a Republican in any national election since 2000, until 2020 that is. I doubt I’ll ever vote for another. But I am enjoying the show. 

     

    • #61
  2. Charlotte Member
    Charlotte
    @Charlotte

    Henry Racette (View Comment):
    Jesus. Henry. Christ.

    Wow! I had no idea you were named after Jesus. Cool!

    • #62
  3. Mark Alexander Inactive
    Mark Alexander
    @MarkAlexander

    On another topic, I actually bought Boll & Branch bed sheets and they’re great!

    • #63
  4. Django Member
    Django
    @Django

    Charlotte (View Comment):

    Henry Racette (View Comment):
    Jesus. Henry. Christ.

    Wow! I had no idea you were named after Jesus. Cool!

    Actually the middle name is “Hallowed”. 

    Sorry, I couldn’t resist. 

    • #64
  5. Blue Yeti Admin
    Blue Yeti
    @BlueYeti

    Mark Alexander (View Comment):
    On another topic, I actually bought Boll & Branch bed sheets and they’re great!

    This is the best comment on this entire…thread. 

    • #65
  6. Bishop Wash Member
    Bishop Wash
    @BishopWash

    Mark Alexander (View Comment):

    On another topic, I actually bought Boll & Branch bed sheets and they’re great!

    I’m guessing that George Bush didn’t own them because the number of former presidents owning them didn’t change after his death. Unless the company didn’t bother to update their copy. On the other hand the copy doesn’t say three former president currently own Boll & Branch. However, the tense does imply presently. Does Trump own them? There’s a new former president.

    • #66
  7. Henry Racette Member
    Henry Racette
    @HenryRacette

    Blue Yeti (View Comment):

    Henry Racette (View Comment):
    We call this thing The Flagship for a reason. It represents the brand, the whole Ricochet/Silent Cal thing, and if one of the three hosts can’t put the interests of the business ahead of his own disgust with, I don’t know, everything Trump/Trump supporter/GOP, then maybe he should take a break. I’m not saying everyone should be in lock-step, but there are limits to the disrespect one should show when one has an interest in the business. It seems both unprofessional and counter-productive, something I might expect from a member but I wouldn’t expect from a pro. You gentlemen host the show together, and this is, I think, hurting the show, and hence the site, and hence the greater cause.

    You are speaking as if the entire membership thinks monolithically on this particular issue. That does not comport with the feedback we receive every week. 

    No, I know we don’t all agree, though I do suspect the membership is substantially more pro-Trump than anti-Trump, like the Republican party itself. I’m speaking as a member who wants this blogging platform to survive and thrive, and I’m listening to a guy who sells the site on his podcasts but isn’t willing to comment here himself because he’s so at odds with the membership in his own views — and yet is happy to spout those views ad nauseum on the signature podcast. And I wonder what new members who come in here expecting it to sound more like Rob think when they discover that Rob can’t stand the place himself.

    Once more: I don’t go looking for NT guests. It’s not a topic I feel any need or desire to discuss. At all. I look for guests who have expertise or experience on a particular topic or area in the news that week. But the show is not scripted and once we are recording, it is an improvisation. That’s just the nature of the beast. 

    Sorry, my post was ambiguous in that regard. I wasn’t objecting to the guest. And I wouldn’t even be objecting to Rob if he wasn’t so consistent and strident on this topic.

    And, honestly, “the Republican party can go to hell?” I know we have our differences, but is this how we sell “smart, civil conversation on the center right” now, when we should be figuring out how to win the next two elections and stop a progressive juggernaut?

    I’m a huge fan of free speech, and I welcome dissenting views. But this is The Ricochet Podcast we’re talking about, and it’s one of the co-founders talking. Just doesn’t seem like good business, or good politics, to me.

    • #67
  8. Bishop Wash Member
    Bishop Wash
    @BishopWash

    I didn’t listen as closely to the portion of the show that I caught during the Zoom call. Did James’ Tight Change line make it to the final cut? A nice reference.

    • #68
  9. Django Member
    Django
    @Django

    Mark Alexander (View Comment):

    On another topic, I actually bought Boll & Branch bed sheets and they’re great!

    Good to know since the quality of my go-to brand has declined. 

    • #69
  10. RufusRJones Member
    RufusRJones
    @RufusRJones

    I have to admit that I used to like Rob no matter what, but now he is tedious.

    • #70
  11. Mark Alexander Inactive
    Mark Alexander
    @MarkAlexander

    Bishop Wash (View Comment):

    Mark Alexander (View Comment):

    On another topic, I actually bought Boll & Branch bed sheets and they’re great!

    I’m guessing that George Bush didn’t own them because the number of former presidents owning them didn’t change after his death. Unless the company didn’t bother to update their copy. On the other hand the copy doesn’t say three former president currently own Boll & Branch. However, the tense does imply presently. Does Trump own them? There’s a new former president.

    • #71
  12. Django Member
    Django
    @Django

    Vince Guerra (View Comment):

    Django (View Comment):
    I’ve read that Trump increased his share of voters in every category except college-educated white soy-boys and senile old fools terrified of Covid-19.

    Dang, that’s a quality burn, and kinda true.

    Just going by what I heard Ben Shapiro say  after the election. He’s normally pretty dependable, so I believe it’s true. 

    • #72
  13. RufusRJones Member
    RufusRJones
    @RufusRJones

    Django (View Comment):

    Vince Guerra (View Comment):

    Django (View Comment):
    I’ve read that Trump increased his share of voters in every category except college-educated white soy-boys and senile old fools terrified of Covid-19.

    Dang, that’s a quality burn, and kinda true.

    Just going by what I heard Ben Shapiro say after the election. He’s normally pretty dependable, so I believe it’s true.

    It is. 

    I forget where I heard this, but the problem is the volume is with white people or something. If you listen to VDH’s latest podcast here, he talks about why Trump is getting so much of the non-white vote, indirectly. Solid citizens get it that Trump was on the right track because of corrupt institutions. He just turned off too many white people, which is where the volume of voters are. This is why I think we need to talk about policy more. Trump had his deficiencies, but he illuminated the things that needed it. The GOP needs guys that understand civics and government more, and are less impulsive. 

    • #73
  14. RufusRJones Member
    RufusRJones
    @RufusRJones

    RufusRJones (View Comment):
    I forget where I heard this

    It was Ryan Gidursky on the Buck Sexton show. It was really good. That guy is really smart.

    • #74
  15. RufusRJones Member
    RufusRJones
    @RufusRJones

    When the Democrat party gets below something like 89% of the black vote their whole operation is toast. Think about that. I mean the whole country.

    • #75
  16. kedavis Coolidge
    kedavis
    @kedavis

    Henry Racette (View Comment):
    So let’s work to improve — not fix, but improve — the Republican party. It seems obvious to me that prattling on about how “my party left me” isn’t productive: it’s a big party with lots of different kinds of people in it, lots of different kinds of people in D.C., even. If you feel a need to take your marbles and go home, take them and go. I’m sorry to see you leave, because we need conservatives to support the only vehicle for getting them into office. But, if you’re going to keep talking about leaving, for God sakes go: smearing forty million allies who don’t share your viewpoint probably isn’t helping the cause.

    One thing that rubs a lot of people the wrong way, and very deeply, is that there were years/decades of the larger Republican voting public willing to vote for the “establishment” candidates that were put before us.  Only to find out that, even if they “won,” little if anything changed significantly.  But when the larger Republican voting public came up with their/our own ideas, first the TEA Party and then Trump, the “establishment” got in a snit about how they couldn’t go along with THAT, because it somehow violated their “principles” (which didn’t seem to have been much on display up to that point).  That’s a pretty basic rift, and I think it’s the establishment that needs to come around, not everyone else.  IF they refuse to do so, I think that makes the rift their fault, not ours.

    • #76
  17. ToryWarWriter Coolidge
    ToryWarWriter
    @ToryWarWriter

    Blue Yeti (View Comment):

    ToryWarWriter (View Comment):

    This song is dedicated to Liz Cheney.

    Great, great song but I don’t get the reference to Liz Cheney. Especially in the context of Trump, who was literally “a millionaire’s son.”

    Ah to me, Cheney and much of the neo-cons were big on being pro war, more than willing to send young sons off to do the dying, while sitting comfortably in their seats in congress.

    As I have said a number of times, that to me the worst President of the last 50 years is George W Bush, who has cause so much of the crap we now have to deal with.  But he is out of power, so we can rehabilitate him.

    I am looking forward to President Desantis, and the left pining for the good old days of Pres Trump, “You know he may have said mean things, but you could make a deal with him.”

    • #77
  18. RufusRJones Member
    RufusRJones
    @RufusRJones

    kedavis (View Comment):
    One thing that rubs a lot of people the wrong way, and very deeply, is that there were years/decades of the larger Republican voting public willing to vote for the “establishment” candidates that were put before us.  Only to find out that, even if they “won,” little if anything changed significantly. 

    Watch the long interview of David stockman on real vision. It will cost you a dollar. 

     

     

     

     

    • #78
  19. ToryWarWriter Coolidge
    ToryWarWriter
    @ToryWarWriter

    James Lileks (View Comment):

    Henry Racette (View Comment):

    It saddens me a little that this particular podcast is public face of Ricochet. It brands the site as something it isn’t. The founders plus James are gifted communicators. They need to try harder.

    Well, help me out here. I don’t pick the guests. To be honest I am tired of Trump talk, period. While it’s obviously still a relevant topic, it goes to the same place every time. I would have to give a four-minute preamble every time the subject came up to explain where I am on the issue, but A) boring, B) who cares, and C) It would probably still result in getting lumped into one of the two binary views. (I got a letter from a guy last week who was so, so disappointed that I had turned into a “Trump forever” guy.)

    Try harder to do what? I’m serious.

    Try harder to tell the above to Rob whenever he starts up one of his anti-trump tirades.  Its people like him and Cheney that keep making us have this same old conversation over and over and over again.  

    • #79
  20. RufusRJones Member
    RufusRJones
    @RufusRJones

    ToryWarWriter (View Comment):

    Ah to me, Cheney and much of the neo-cons were big on being pro war, more than willing to send young sons off to do the dying, while sitting comfortably in their seats in congress.

    As I have said a number of times, that to me the worst President of the last 50 years is George W Bush, who has cause so much of the crap we now have to deal with.  But he is out of power, so we can rehabilitate him.

     

     

     

     

    • #80
  21. ToryWarWriter Coolidge
    ToryWarWriter
    @ToryWarWriter

    Gary Robbins (View Comment):

    ToryWarWriter (View Comment):

    There is a reason some people like Rob Long are never going to run for office. Building a coalition as Peter Robinson started to point out is hard.

    Principled stands are for people who dont want to win elections.

    Also Liz Chaney is not a conservative.

    By the standards that were commonly agreed to until Election Day on November 3, 2020, Liz Cheney was and is one of the most conservative members of Congress and she was a Pro-Trump Conservative.

    The only change is that after January 6, 2021, is that Liz Cheney became an Anti-Trump Conservative.

    Liz Cheney is still very conservative, all that changed was her attitude towards Trump that changed 180 degrees.

    As seen in a different answer, I am anti-war conservative, who got read out of the party for being against the Iraq war.  I dont consider pro-endless war conservative, and she is very pro-endless war.  

    • #81
  22. Django Member
    Django
    @Django

    ToryWarWriter (View Comment):

    Blue Yeti (View Comment):

    ToryWarWriter (View Comment):

    This song is dedicated to Liz Cheney.

    Great, great song but I don’t get the reference to Liz Cheney. Especially in the context of Trump, who was literally “a millionaire’s son.”

    Ah to me, Cheney and much of the neo-cons were big on being pro war, more than willing to send young sons off to do the dying, while sitting comfortably in their seats in congress.

    As I have said a number of times, that to me the worst President of the last 50 years is George W Bush, who has cause so much of the crap we now have to deal with. But he is out of power, so we can rehabilitate him.

    I am looking forward to President Desantis, and the left pining for the good old days of Pres Trump, “You know he may have said mean things, but you could make a deal with him.”

    I’m almost embarrassed to admit that I voted for that fool in 2000, but I realized my mistake by 2002. 

    • #82
  23. RufusRJones Member
    RufusRJones
    @RufusRJones

    ToryWarWriter (View Comment):
    I am anti-war conservative,

    Mises.org is quite interesting on this type of thing and I think the latest human action podcast covers this. 

    • #83
  24. ToryWarWriter Coolidge
    ToryWarWriter
    @ToryWarWriter

    Blue Yeti (View Comment):

    James Lileks (View Comment):

    Henry Racette (View Comment):

    It saddens me a little that this particular podcast is public face of Ricochet. It brands the site as something it isn’t. The founders plus James are gifted communicators. They need to try harder.

    Well, help me out here. I don’t pick the guests. To be honest I am tired of Trump talk, period. While it’s obviously still a relevant topic, it goes to the same place every time. I would have to give a four-minute preamble every time the subject came up to explain where I am on the issue, but A) boring, B) who cares, and C) It would probably still result in getting lumped into one of the two binary views. (I got a letter from a guy last week who was so, so disappointed that I had turned into a “Trump forever” guy.)

    Try harder to do what? I’m serious.

    I pick the guests (mostly) and I picked Jim to come on to talk about the Liz Cheney drama and the Wuhan lab story, two (of many) topics he has done some very good writing on. But once a guest is on the show and we are rolling, the guys (and the guest) take it where they will. That’s their prerogative.

    I do not go in search of #NT guests. Just the opposite, in fact. But that doesn’t mean the topic won’t come up on its own as it did in this show. I think it’s worth pointing out (since NO ONE ELSE has) that Elliot Abrams –himself a pretty staunch #NT’er– went out of his way in his segment to repeatedly praise President Trump and his administration for their foreign policy initiatives in the Middle East. If you’re going to (perhaps deservedly) crush us for the Geraghty segment, how about some props for the Abrams segment? Anyone? Bueller….Bueller?

    Like it not, the hosts do represent the range of views on the right. And the feedback we get from private messages and on social media is often quite a bit different from the public comments we get on Ricochet. That’s fine — we understand that our members are probably more partisan than our general listening audience, and you are of course the most important part of the audience to us. But to suggest that it is the only view on the right does not comport with the feedback we get on this show every week.

    Hey I said nice things about Rob during the covid segment.  

    • #84
  25. RufusRJones Member
    RufusRJones
    @RufusRJones

     

     

     

     

    • #85
  26. FredGoodhue Coolidge
    FredGoodhue
    @FredGoodhue

    harrisventures (View Comment):

    I tried. I logged in to the Ricochet Zoom podcast today. I gritted my teeth and I listened.

    10 minutes in, I had to cancel the travesty.

    This is not an ad hominem argument. This is based on objective reality. You guys are idiots.

    You guys haven’t actually built anything, you are just professional prognosticators. Trump stands accused of having an outsized ego. Hmm… maybe he deserves a little leeway here. He has built several skyscrapers. Dealt with nefarious characters to get things done. How many have you built? Russia, China, and Iran were actually pretty quiescent during his reign.

    He didn’t start any new wars. He built a framework for peace in the Middle East. Highest employment for minorities in history. Appointed a record number of conservative judges to federal courts. You know, really actually accomplished a lot of conservative goals. But… mean tweets. Big ego.

    Jim Geraghty, Kevin Williamson, Rob Lowery, Rob Long, and all the Logjam Republicans have gifted us the Biden Dementia Administration with:

    1. Unrestricted incursions at the border, 100’s of thousands of illegal immigrants every month
    2. Energy independent to highest energy prices in decades.
    3. Mideast Peace to Mideast literally in flames.
    4. Inflation through the roof.

    Yes, yes, this is much better than Orange Man Bad who tweets mean things. The world is burning down around us and you are concerned that Trump might have an outsized ego.

    This is not an ad hominem argument. This is based on objective reality. You guys are idiots.

    For a significant segment of the electorate, the candidate’s character matters more than accomplishments.  Biden did not do crazy tweets, so for many voters, they preferred him.  It does not matter if you, or I, think issues are more important.  If Trump had just shown some self-control, there is a good chance he would have been reelected.

    It’s not the pundits who gifted us Biden, it’s the voters.

    • #86
  27. ToryWarWriter Coolidge
    ToryWarWriter
    @ToryWarWriter

    RufusRJones (View Comment):

    ToryWarWriter (View Comment):
    I am anti-war conservative,

    Mises.org is quite interesting on this type of thing and I think the latest human action podcast covers this.

    What can I say, I was reading a lot of Jerry Pournelles blog at the time.  

    • #87
  28. kedavis Coolidge
    kedavis
    @kedavis

    FredGoodhue (View Comment):

    harrisventures (View Comment):

    I tried. I logged in to the Ricochet Zoom podcast today. I gritted my teeth and I listened.

    10 minutes in, I had to cancel the travesty.

    This is not an ad hominem argument. This is based on objective reality. You guys are idiots.

    You guys haven’t actually built anything, you are just professional prognosticators. Trump stands accused of having an outsized ego. Hmm… maybe he deserves a little leeway here. He has built several skyscrapers. Dealt with nefarious characters to get things done. How many have you built? Russia, China, and Iran were actually pretty quiescent during his reign.

    He didn’t start any new wars. He built a framework for peace in the Middle East. Highest employment for minorities in history. Appointed a record number of conservative judges to federal courts. You know, really actually accomplished a lot of conservative goals. But… mean tweets. Big ego.

    Jim Geraghty, Kevin Williamson, Rob Lowery, Rob Long, and all the Logjam Republicans have gifted us the Biden Dementia Administration with:

    1. Unrestricted incursions at the border, 100’s of thousands of illegal immigrants every month
    2. Energy independent to highest energy prices in decades.
    3. Mideast Peace to Mideast literally in flames.
    4. Inflation through the roof.

    Yes, yes, this is much better than Orange Man Bad who tweets mean things. The world is burning down around us and you are concerned that Trump might have an outsized ego.

    This is not an ad hominem argument. This is based on objective reality. You guys are idiots.

    For a significant segment of the electorate, the candidate’s character matters more than accomplishments. Biden did not do crazy tweets, so for many voters, they preferred him. It does not matter if you, or I, think issues are more important. If Trump had just shown some self-control, there is a good chance he would have been reelected.

    It’s not the pundits who gifted us Biden, it’s the voters.

    Voters who were lied to by the widespread media, and so many other problems…

    But still, What do you say if we find out that Trump actually won the legitimate vote?

    • #88
  29. Richard Easton Coolidge
    Richard Easton
    @RichardEaston

    FredGoodhue (View Comment):

    harrisventures (View Comment):

    I tried. I logged in to the Ricochet Zoom podcast today. I gritted my teeth and I listened.

    10 minutes in, I had to cancel the travesty.

    This is not an ad hominem argument. This is based on objective reality. You guys are idiots.

    You guys haven’t actually built anything, you are just professional prognosticators. Trump stands accused of having an outsized ego. Hmm… maybe he deserves a little leeway here. He has built several skyscrapers. Dealt with nefarious characters to get things done. How many have you built? Russia, China, and Iran were actually pretty quiescent during his reign.

    He didn’t start any new wars. He built a framework for peace in the Middle East. Highest employment for minorities in history. Appointed a record number of conservative judges to federal courts. You know, really actually accomplished a lot of conservative goals. But… mean tweets. Big ego.

    Jim Geraghty, Kevin Williamson, Rob Lowery, Rob Long, and all the Logjam Republicans have gifted us the Biden Dementia Administration with:

    1. Unrestricted incursions at the border, 100’s of thousands of illegal immigrants every month
    2. Energy independent to highest energy prices in decades.
    3. Mideast Peace to Mideast literally in flames.
    4. Inflation through the roof.

    Yes, yes, this is much better than Orange Man Bad who tweets mean things. The world is burning down around us and you are concerned that Trump might have an outsized ego.

    This is not an ad hominem argument. This is based on objective reality. You guys are idiots.

    For a significant segment of the electorate, the candidate’s character matters more than accomplishments. Biden did not do crazy tweets, so for many voters, they preferred him. It does not matter if you, or I, think issues are more important. If Trump had just shown some self-control, there is a good chance he would have been reelected.

    It’s not the pundits who gifted us Biden, it’s the voters.

    10% for the big guy reveals all one needs to know about Biden’s character.

    • #89
  30. Gary Robbins Member
    Gary Robbins
    @GaryRobbins

    Django (View Comment):

    Henry Racette (View Comment):

    Django (View Comment):

    “GOPe” is short-hand for Grand Old Party Establishment and is quite specific, unless of course, you think there is no GOP Establishment, in which case you don’t live in the real world.

    “RINO” is short-hand for those who claim membership in the GOP — notice I did not say “GOPe” — but who support Democrats and stereotypical Democrat party positions.

    I don’t see anything unreasonable or difficult to understand about the terminology.

    Yes, I know what the letters stand for. The problem is that these labels aren’t actually very useful — but they serve as handy pejoratives that contribute to strife and division. One man’s RINO is another man’s pragmatic conservative doing what has to be done to move the ball ahead. Same with GOPe.

    I know it’s more time-consuming, and probably less satisfying, to talk about specific issues, but I think it serves us better. The Republican Party is no more a monolithic organization than is Ricochet, neither in its membership nor in its leadership. During this podcast, Peter was correct when he spoke of practical Republican politicians doing what they had to do to win a Republican majority. That’s a mature and productive way to look at it. The labels are, like Rob’s hyperbolic excoriation, broad and vague and divisive.

    How would you refer to members of the GOP who support Democrat positions?

    There are two groups of Republicans who voted for Biden.  There are those who have abandoned conservatism.   The second group are Biden Republicans.  The Biden Republicans are quite reachable if Trump is not nominated in 2024.

    Pragmatists? That’s just another label. Furthermore, how pragmatic can you be without abandoning your “conservative” positions?

    Do you believe there is a GOP Establishment? If so, what else can you call them? You’re objections seem pointless to me.

    • #90
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