About Those UFOs. I Have a Theory.

 

One night in the spring of 1980, shortly before midnight, I left my dorm room at New Mexico Institute of Mining and Technology in Socorro, New Mexico, got in my pale blue 1972 VW Super Beetle, and drove west into the desert toward the tiny town of Magdalena. Magdalena, population 900 or so, isn’t precisely the middle of nowhere. The middle of nowhere, and my destination, was about 20 miles further west, in the high desert basin known as the Plains of San Augustin. The 1947 “Roswell Incident,” much featured in UFO mythology, purportedly occurred on that isolated plain, but that isn’t what drew me there that clear moonlit night.

The Very Large Array (VLA) is a group of 27 radio telescopes spread out in an enormous Y on the Plains of San Augustin. The dishes, weighing more than 200 tons each on their multi-story gantries, can be moved by rail to vary the size of the Y, the legs of which can be more than 20 miles long at their greatest extent. Using a technique known as interferometry, the array can achieve, in some instances, the resolving power of a single dish with a diameter equivalent to the span of the array.

I read voraciously as a child. I’d walk the few blocks from my elementary school to the library when school got out and then stay there reading until my father picked me up on his way home from work. I quickly exhausted the children’s section, one small room clearly demarcated from the much larger, newer area of the library, and so one day ventured cautiously around the corner and into the grown-up space. As it happens, the wall of books immediately adjacent to the children’s area contained science fiction; I stopped there, and never wandered farther into the library. Science fiction gripped my young imagination; it has never let go.

There are few sights more romantic and unworldly to a lover of science fiction than the VLA by moonlight.


I’ve never been a big Carl Sagan fan, but I enjoyed the 1997 movie adaptation of his 1985 novel Contact. Part of that enjoyment came from seeing Jodie Foster in the starring role, sitting on the hood of her car parked under that same VLA I visited repeatedly as a young man, listening for sounds of extraterrestrial life. I’d been there; more, I’d wondered the same thing her character wondered: is anyone out there?

The Search for Extraterrestrial Intelligence Project, better known as SETI, is an effort to detect the faint radio transmissions of advanced life out in our galaxy. Many of us who think it unlikely that we occupy this universe alone expected to have discovered some distant radio source by now, some evidence that at least one other species has reached the level of technology we achieved a century ago. That hasn’t happened, and there are numerous theories as to why it hasn’t. One theory that I stubbornly reject as implausible is that there’s no one no thing out there, that we’re alone — at least alone in this portion of our galaxy. I’d prefer to think that the technological window during which a civilization might produce detectable radio emissions in a profligate fashion is narrow, and we’ve simply missed it: now their transmissions are so perfectly compressed as to be indistinguishable from static, and so efficiently directed as to miss us entirely. They’re out there; we just can’t hear them. Anyway, that’s my hope.

Now we hear that UFOs are real. What are we to make of that?

I have a theory.

Assume that we really can’t go faster than the speed of light, that that paltry 186 thousand miles per second is the best we can ever do. Assume that wormholes and warping and subspace and improbability drives and all the rest will forever remain fiction. Assume all that and we’re left with a depressing thought — depressing, at least, for anyone hopeful that we’ll make contact with another civilization.

There’s no plausible reason to journey across the light years in pursuit of material resources. There just isn’t an economic model under which that makes sense. Oh, maybe one could be contrived in a rare instance — say, the need of some race in a planet-poor system to collect the raw material with which to build its own Dyson sphere or parts thereof. But that’s a long way to go for stuff that can almost certainly be found closer to home.

That means no interstellar wars, no Independence Day, no Starship Troopers, no Ender’s Game. (And no mediocre sequels either.) I guess that’s good. But it also means no Close Encounters, no ET, no Day the Earth Stood Still. No Contact. No contact at all.

It seems unlikely that they’d make the trip simply to meet people. Presumably, if they were interested in making our acquaintance, they’d have called ahead, sent us a message by now, long before they arrived in “person.” And if they had made the trip, why would they flit around our planet for decades, never quite revealing themselves, never actually saying hello? Why be that way?

But I’m an optimist. I want to believe that there’s life out there, that UFOs could be real. I just need it to make sense.


Imagine that there are advanced civilizations out there. For reasons we don’t understand we’re unable to see their radio signature. Perhaps they’ve moved beyond radio; perhaps their encoding is simply too subtle, or their focus too precise, for us to detect them. But imagine that they’re out there. They’re technologically advanced, wealthy by material standards, vastly more knowledgeable than we are. What could we have that might possibly interest them, that they couldn’t find on their own?

Novelty. Authentic novelty.

The wonders of the ocean depths, of the darkest African jungle, or of the icy extremes of Antarctica will, when packaged in sufficiently high fidelity and seen enough times, lose their romantic appeal. Been there, done that: nothing, no matter how awe-inspiring and dramatic, retains its impact after sufficient viewing.

One thing an advanced civilization can’t simply create is something natural and authentic and unexpected. It may be able to synthesize, simulate, and invent almost anything, but not anything authentically alien and mysterious. It can’t create novelty.

So what they do is send automated probes out into the universe. These probes have a mission, to collect information about other places and send that information home. They’re instructed to avoid contaminating the worlds they find, because contamination diminishes the authenticity of their discoveries, and hence their value. So these probes scatter throughout the galaxy, replicating in out-of-the-way places, always looking for that most novel of things, life, and, beyond that, for the even greater richness of alien intelligence. What could be more novel, after all, than alien civilization?

The probes would try to avoid contaminating such a civilization as it developed. Its novelty and authenticity would depend on that. But, once that civilization reached a certain level of development, once all the knowledge that could be safely gathered without risk of discovery had been accumulated, it would be time to communicate with the alien civilization, to learn as much as possible for the eager minds far away. Perhaps the probes would offer knowledge in return, as an incentive for greater openness and communication.

Perhaps we’ve reached that level of development.


I don’t write fiction because I’m not good at it. I’ve tried. But I thought about a short story years ago, the gist of which is this:

Aliens land at the White House. They tell the President et al that the galaxy is full of advanced civilizations, Earth is a dirt poor little backwater planet with nothing of value… except for that novelty I’ve described. They explain that they’ve been sent to catalog everything about our world and to hold that information in trust, so that the profit from its release to the galactic federation can be invested in Earth’s technological development and we can join the fellowship of other advanced civilizations.

With the permission of Earth’s leaders, the aliens exhaustively catalog everything about our world. Their cameras and probes and scanners are everywhere, we’re tripping over them as they rush to document everything before it’s contaminated by exposure to the inevitable tourists and sightseers who we’re told will soon follow the discovery of our planet. And then one day they’re all gone, their ships and their cameras all vanished.

A few weeks later another delegation arrives at the White House. They explain that they are the official representatives of the galactic federation. They regret to inform us that poachers have preceded them to Earth, that Earth’s pirated intellectual property has been disseminated to the stars — we’re the latest fad, our three minutes of fame are almost up, and there are, unfortunately, no profits banked for the development of our sad little backwater.

Then one of the aliens looks at the Mickey Mouse watch on his wrist and says they have to go.

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  1. kedavis Coolidge
    kedavis
    @kedavis

    Flicker (View Comment):

    kedavis (View Comment):

    Flicker (View Comment):

    If I recall correctly, and it’s been nearly fifty years since I read The Making of Star Trek, the description was that space (A-B-C-D-E) was nearly folded (A-E) and the space ship drove across the near fold (or the actually the warp in space that the ship’s warp drive engines created in space) in a smooth continuous process. I just called it “jumping”.

    If that means they skip over the space in between, that’s not how it works in the show because they see the stuff in between: stars, planets, etc.

    Let me put it this way. They travel I would think at normal sublight speeds through essentially shortened space. The space is shortened, or warped, immediately in front of the ship, the ship moves at a slow-ish speed across the shortened space, and the space is lengthened once again after the ship passes it. The greatly shortening of space travels with the ship. As I recall, the warp was shaped like a U or a V, but not folded to the form of a T in which the ship skipped any space entirely.

    Well that’s kind of the same thing, in a way.  The main issue is that the ship itself never was going faster-than-light through “space.”

    I’m not saying that it makes sense, but if I remember correctly, that’s what TV show “warping” was fifty-some years ago. I don’t think it had to be thought out in detail. I mean it’s like phasers, which were nothing more than being something beyond lasers, because as Roddenberry said: What if we’re a hit and last for five years and people know lasers and say lasers can’t do that? Phasers weren’t thought out beyond being not lasers.

     

    • #151
  2. OccupantCDN Coolidge
    OccupantCDN
    @OccupantCDN

    kedavis (View Comment):

    Flicker (View Comment):

    kedavis (View Comment):

    Flicker (View Comment):

    If I recall correctly, and it’s been nearly fifty years since I read The Making of Star Trek, the description was that space (A-B-C-D-E) was nearly folded (A-E) and the space ship drove across the near fold (or the actually the warp in space that the ship’s warp drive engines created in space) in a smooth continuous process. I just called it “jumping”.

    If that means they skip over the space in between, that’s not how it works in the show because they see the stuff in between: stars, planets, etc.

    Let me put it this way. They travel I would think at normal sublight speeds through essentially shortened space. The space is shortened, or warped, immediately in front of the ship, the ship moves at a slow-ish speed across the shortened space, and the space is lengthened once again after the ship passes it. The greatly shortening of space travels with the ship. As I recall, the warp was shaped like a U or a V, but not folded to the form of a T in which the ship skipped any space entirely.

    Well that’s kind of the same thing, in a way. The main issue is that the ship itself never was going faster-than-light through “space.”

    I’m not saying that it makes sense, but if I remember correctly, that’s what TV show “warping” was fifty-some years ago. I don’t think it had to be thought out in detail. I mean it’s like phasers, which were nothing more than being something beyond lasers, because as Roddenberry said: What if we’re a hit and last for five years and people know lasers and say lasers can’t do that? Phasers weren’t thought out beyond being not lasers.

     

    Here is a video that explains Warp Drives:

     

    • #152
  3. OccupantCDN Coolidge
    OccupantCDN
    @OccupantCDN

    kedavis (View Comment):

    OccupantCDN (View Comment):

    kedavis (View Comment):

    OccupantCDN (View Comment):

    Saint Augustine (View Comment):

    OccupantCDN (View Comment):

    Saint Augustine (View Comment):

    OccupantCDN (View Comment):

    Saint Augustine (View Comment):

    ToryWarWriter (View Comment):

    A superior, non-human entity of natural or supernatural origin that is indigenous to planet Earth.

    So the UFOS could be Atlantis or Silurians or even Vril Powered Space Nazis.

    Or perfectly standard angelic beings.

    But why would an angel need a space ship?

    Worth double-likes if this is a Star Trek reference.

    Of course, if these are angelic beings they don’t need a spaceship.

    Exactly, Angels dont arrive in chariots like Egyptian, Greek or even Babylonian gods…

    The hypothesis that UFOs are demonic is not one I endorse; I just don’t rule it out. If I ever figure out how to think through it and also figure out what is the available evidence, I might possibly endorse it.

    Or possibly not.

    But if they were, they wouldn’t be using UFOs for their personal transportation needs. It would merely, in what I take to be the likeliest version of the hypothesis, be part of their deception.

    I forget where I saw it – but there is a sci-fi paperback about the 12 Olympians where aliens who crash landed in Greece and while they waited (centuries) for rescue they created ancient Greece to worship and serve them …

    I saw that Star Trek episode. It was called “Who Mourns for Adonais.”

    Yea, Ive seen that one too… Except these people had no actual magical powers – just technology.

    Apollo in that episode didn’t really have magical powers either. It was technology, combined in part with some kind of extra “liver” or something in his body that was used to direct it and stuff.

    I thought when he died at the end of the show Apollo let himself slip from existence. From his natural ability.

    • #153
  4. kedavis Coolidge
    kedavis
    @kedavis

    OccupantCDN (View Comment):

    I thought when he died at the end of the show Apollo let himself slip from existence. From his natural ability.

    These things were discussed in the episode, but over 50+ years the episodes were getting shown on broadcast TV with more and more cut from the original running times, as the commercial time in an “hour” time slot increased.   TOS was made with a running time of about 51 minutes per episode, now many times – especially on channels like Me TV – an “hour” time slot might be 40 minutes or even less, allowing for commercials.  The H&I channel (Heroes & Icons) does a better job, but they’re the exception that proves the rule.  A while back I saw the “Flint” episode (“Requiem for Methuselah”) on Me TV and, among other things, the whole end part about Flint no longer being immortal since he left Earth, was cut out.

    I’ve seen episodes of MASH where, one time, one part of an episode is cut, and the next time that episode is on, different parts are cut.  So over time you may see the whole thing, but not at once.  And nobody seems to do that with Star Trek.

    KIRK: Apollo’s no god. But he could have been taken for one, though, once. Say five thousand years ago, a highly sophisticated group of space travellers landed on Earth around the Mediterranean.

    MCCOY: Yes. To the simple shepherds and tribesmen of early Greece, creatures like that would have been gods.

    KIRK: Especially if they had the power to alter their form at will and command great energy. In fact, they couldn’t have been taken for anything else.

     

    Continued due to word limit…

    • #154
  5. kedavis Coolidge
    kedavis
    @kedavis

    Adding further to Apollo’s non-god status was about his internal stuff etc:

    CHEKOV: There is a repeated occurrence of registrations, a regular pulsating pattern of radiated energy.

    SCOTT: Unquestionably, an immensely powerful field of energy is being generated around here somewhere. We’re just having difficulty focusing on it.

    KIRK: Apollo has no difficulty focusing. He taps that energy, Mister Scott.

    CHEKOV: Sir, some creatures can generate and control energy with no harm to themselves. The electric eel on Earth, the giant dry worm of Antos Four, the fluffy…

    MCCOY: Not the whole encyclopaedia, Chekov.

    CHEKOV: The captain requires complete information.

    MCCOY: Spock’s contaminating this boy, Jim.

    KIRK: Are you suggesting that he, Apollo, taps a flow of energy and channels it through his body?

    CHEKOV: That would seem most likely, sir.

    KIRK: Mister Chekov, I think you’ve earned your pay for the week. But where is the source of that power?

    MCCOY: Number one on our list of things to do.

    KIRK: Is that all you have to offer?

    MCCOY: Yes, except my estimation for his physical condition. In spite of Apollo’s bag of tricks, he comes up essentially normal with just a few variations. However, there’s an extra organ in his chest that I can’t even make a guess about.

    Now that “probably” didn’t evolved naturally, but even if they did genetic-engineering on themselves, they’re still aliens, not gods.

    KIRK: All right, mister. You wanted worshippers? You’ve got enemies. You want us to bow down, you’ll have to

    (Kirk clutches his throat and falls to the ground, choking.)

    APOLLO: You will learn discipline. You will learn

    (Again, he suddenly becomes tired and vanishes.)

    MCCOY: Chekov, give me a hand.

    KIRK: Take care of Scotty.

    CHEKOV: Are you all right, Captain?

    KIRK: Where’s Apollo?

    CHEKOV: He disappeared again like the cat in that Russian story.

    KIRK: Don’t you mean the English story, the Cheshire Cat?

    CHEKOV: Cheshire? No, sir. Minsk perhaps, but

    KIRK: All right, all right, all right.

    CHEKOV: Sir, there is something I noticed. Apollo looked very strange when he disappeared, tired or in pain. I don’t know if it means anything.

    And:

    KIRK: Well, let’s assume that five thousand years ago creatures like our friend Apollo did indeed visit Earth and form the basis of the Greek classic myths.

    MCCOY: Makes sense.

    KIRK: Most mythology has its basis in fact. If I remember my ancient legends, the gods, after expending energy, required rest, even as we humans.

    CHEKOV: And Apollo’s gone, after attacking you and Mister Scott. You think maybe he’s off somewhere recharging his energy cells?

    KIRK: Something like that. Remember, he’s keeping a force field on the ship and he’s expending energy down here. You said he looked pained and tired when he disappeared. If we can wear him out, overwork him, that might do it.

     

    Continued again…

    • #155
  6. kedavis Coolidge
    kedavis
    @kedavis

    And then, kinda finally:

    SPOCK [OC]: We’ve pinpointed a power source on the planet’s surface which seems to have something to do with the force field.

    [Bridge]

    SPOCK: Is there a structure of some sort near you?

    [Temple]

    KIRK: There is indeed, Mister Spock.

    SPOCK [OC]: The power emanates from there.

    And so, like with “what does God need with a starship,” we’ve got “what does (a) God need with a power plant in a building?”

    • #156
  7. OccupantCDN Coolidge
    OccupantCDN
    @OccupantCDN

    ToryWarWriter (View Comment):

    As I mentioned in the comments while watching the ricochet flagship, there is entirely another source for the UFO phenomenon.

    Ultraterrestrial

    A superior, non-human entity of natural or supernatural origin that is indigenous to planet Earth.

    So the UFOS could be Atlantis or Silurians or even Vril Powered Space Nazis.

    The short lived show the visitor explored this concept in the 90s.

     

    What the heck was that? is 1/2 the episode missing? It made no sense at all.

    • #157
  8. Flicker Coolidge
    Flicker
    @Flicker

    OccupantCDN (View Comment):

    Saint Augustine (View Comment):

    ToryWarWriter (View Comment):

    A superior, non-human entity of natural or supernatural origin that is indigenous to planet Earth.

    So the UFOS could be Atlantis or Silurians or even Vril Powered Space Nazis.

    Or perfectly standard angelic beings.

    But why would an angel need a space ship?

    My understanding is, tentative as it is, that demons are the immortal spirits of the nephilim, which were corporeal mortal human-angel hybrids, cursed by God to walk the earth as spirits in unquenchable thirst after their deaths.  (This much is documented.)

    My presumption is that they miss having corporeal bodies, and that’s why if given permission to enter, they like living inside people.

    My guess is that while they can walk, they likely cannot fly.  So they need space ships to save time.  They have no fear of death, so that’s why they prefer fast agile roadsters for their space ships.  They play with aircraft because they are evil, and being immortal giving them lots of free time, and there is no place they have to be anyway.

    • #158
  9. Henry Castaigne Member
    Henry Castaigne
    @HenryCastaigne

    Flicker (View Comment):
    My understanding is, tentative as it is, that demons are the immortal spirits of the nephilim, which were corporeal mortal human-angel hybrids, cursed by God to walk the earth as spirits in unquenchable thirst after their deaths.  (This much is documented.)

    Documented by the SciFi channel?

    • #159
  10. Hartmann von Aue Member
    Hartmann von Aue
    @HartmannvonAue

    kedavis (View Comment):

    OccupantCDN (View Comment):

    I thought when he died at the end of the show Apollo let himself slip from existence. From his natural ability.

    These things were discussed in the episode, but over 50+ years the episodes were getting shown on broadcast TV with more and more cut from the original running times, as the commercial time in an “hour” time slot increased. TOS was made with a running time of about 51 minutes per episode, 

    I’ve seen episodes of MASH where, one time, one part of an episode is cut, and the next time that episode is on, different parts are cut. So over time you may see the whole thing, but not at once. And nobody seems to do that with Star Trek.

    KIRK: Apollo’s no god. But he could have been taken for one, though, once. Say five thousand years ago, a highly sophisticated group of space travellers landed on Earth around the Mediterranean.

    MCCOY: Yes. To the simple shepherds and tribesmen of early Greece, creatures like that would have been gods.

    KIRK: Especially if they had the power to alter their form at will and command great energy. In fact, they couldn’t have been taken for anything else.

     

    On whittling down those 51 minutes: TOS on Amazon has all episodes restored to original length. Sometimes the results are surprising. And then there are the retrofitted SFX which benefit “The Doomsday Machine” enormously. 

    On “Who Mourns for Adonis?”- you have seen “Pilgrim of Eternity” from “Star Trek Continues”, right?

     

    • #160
  11. kedavis Coolidge
    kedavis
    @kedavis

    Hartmann von Aue (View Comment):

    kedavis (View Comment):

    OccupantCDN (View Comment):

    I thought when he died at the end of the show Apollo let himself slip from existence. From his natural ability.

    These things were discussed in the episode, but over 50+ years the episodes were getting shown on broadcast TV with more and more cut from the original running times, as the commercial time in an “hour” time slot increased. TOS was made with a running time of about 51 minutes per episode,

    I’ve seen episodes of MASH where, one time, one part of an episode is cut, and the next time that episode is on, different parts are cut. So over time you may see the whole thing, but not at once. And nobody seems to do that with Star Trek.

    KIRK: Apollo’s no god. But he could have been taken for one, though, once. Say five thousand years ago, a highly sophisticated group of space travellers landed on Earth around the Mediterranean.

    MCCOY: Yes. To the simple shepherds and tribesmen of early Greece, creatures like that would have been gods.

    KIRK: Especially if they had the power to alter their form at will and command great energy. In fact, they couldn’t have been taken for anything else.

     

    On whittling down those 51 minutes: TOS on Amazon has all episodes restored to original length. Sometimes the results are surprising. And then there are the retrofitted SFX which benefit “The Doomsday Machine” enormously.

    On “Who Mourns for Adonis?”- you have seen “Pilgrim of Eternity” from “Star Trek Continues”, right?

     

    I dipped a toe into “Star Trek Continues” and it made me gag.

    Also, the SFX “improvements” are debatable, at minimum.  A lot of it looks more 2-dimensional and even fake, I’d say, than the originals.  The “improved” shuttlecraft SFX don’t match the physical “model” that people got into and out of…  Much of the “Doomsday Machine” SFX “improvements” mess up the scale and positioning…

    • #161
  12. OccupantCDN Coolidge
    OccupantCDN
    @OccupantCDN

    Hartmann von Aue (View Comment):

    kedavis (View Comment):

    OccupantCDN (View Comment):

    I thought when he died at the end of the show Apollo let himself slip from existence. From his natural ability.

    These things were discussed in the episode, but over 50+ years the episodes were getting shown on broadcast TV with more and more cut from the original running times, as the commercial time in an “hour” time slot increased. TOS was made with a running time of about 51 minutes per episode,

    I’ve seen episodes of MASH where, one time, one part of an episode is cut, and the next time that episode is on, different parts are cut. So over time you may see the whole thing, but not at once. And nobody seems to do that with Star Trek.

    KIRK: Apollo’s no god. But he could have been taken for one, though, once. Say five thousand years ago, a highly sophisticated group of space travellers landed on Earth around the Mediterranean.

    MCCOY: Yes. To the simple shepherds and tribesmen of early Greece, creatures like that would have been gods.

    KIRK: Especially if they had the power to alter their form at will and command great energy. In fact, they couldn’t have been taken for anything else.

     

    On whittling down those 51 minutes: TOS on Amazon has all episodes restored to original length. Sometimes the results are surprising. And then there are the retrofitted SFX which benefit “The Doomsday Machine” enormously.

    On “Who Mourns for Adonis?”- you have seen “Pilgrim of Eternity” from “Star Trek Continues”, right?

     

    No, I have not seen any of the Star Trek Continues… Other than knowing the Grant Imahara played Sulu, I dont know anything about it.

    • #162
  13. kedavis Coolidge
    kedavis
    @kedavis

    What sometimes amuses me is people who think that the TOS DVDs etc have “additional footage” that was never in them before.  The poor saps never knew what they were missing, for maybe 50 years.

    • #163
  14. mikegre Inactive
    mikegre
    @mikegre

    Maybe the reason that no one has ever contacted us is that there are zillions of planets with life on them so why bother? We’re just a dime a zillion.

    • #164
  15. John Racette Inactive
    John Racette
    @JohnRacette

    I love the idea of extraterrestrial life, and I believe it exists, most likely in many forms, but I don’t believe any life anywhere is remotely aware of our big blue marble. 

    It’s fun to think about, though. I particularly like bug-eyed monsters.

    • #165
  16. Henry Racette Member
    Henry Racette
    @HenryRacette

    John Racette (View Comment):

    I love the idea of extraterrestrial life, and I believe it exists, most likely in many forms, but I don’t believe any life anywhere is remotely aware of our big blue marble.

    It’s fun to think about, though. I particularly like bug-eyed monsters.

    Your mom is a bug-eyed monster.

    • #166
  17. kedavis Coolidge
    kedavis
    @kedavis

    John Racette (View Comment):

    I love the idea of extraterrestrial life, and I believe it exists, most likely in many forms, but I don’t believe any life anywhere is remotely aware of our big blue marble.

    It’s fun to think about, though. I particularly like bug-eyed monsters.

    The biggest “problem” with life elsewhere in the galaxy/universe is that it’s unlikely to look human with just pointed ears or ridged noses etc, as we’ve been taught on Star Trek.

    A couple of the best examples I’ve found for various more-likely possibilities of life throughout the galaxy are “Voyage Of The Space Beagle” by A.E. van Vogt, one part of which seems very similar to at least the first Alien movie; and “Memoirs Of A Spacewoman” by Naomi Mitchison.

    The various “Known Space” stories by Larry Niven also have a lot more variation of life forms.  For example, the Puppeteer:

     

    • #167
  18. John Racette Inactive
    John Racette
    @JohnRacette

    Henry Racette (View Comment):

    John Racette (View Comment):

    I love the idea of extraterrestrial life, and I believe it exists, most likely in many forms, but I don’t believe any life anywhere is remotely aware of our big blue marble.

    It’s fun to think about, though. I particularly like bug-eyed monsters.

    Your mom is a bug-eyed monster.

    With webbed feet, if I recall correctly.

    • #168
  19. John Racette Inactive
    John Racette
    @JohnRacette

    kedavis (View Comment):

    John Racette (View Comment):

    I love the idea of extraterrestrial life, and I believe it exists, most likely in many forms, but I don’t believe any life anywhere is remotely aware of our big blue marble.

    It’s fun to think about, though. I particularly like bug-eyed monsters.

    The biggest “problem” with life elsewhere in the galaxy/universe is that it’s unlikely to look human with just pointed ears or ridged noses etc, as we’ve been taught on Star Trek.

    A couple of the best examples I’ve found for various more-likely possibilities of life throughout the galaxy are “Voyage Of The Space Beagle” by A.E. van Vogt, one part of which seems very similar to at least the first Alien movie; and “Memoirs Of A Spacewoman” by Naomi Mitchison.

    If one looks at the planetary systems in our universe as a seemingly infinite number of potentially inhabited worlds, as I do, one can shrug off the unlikeliness of finding humanoid life forms and revel in the delightful notion that our fellow universe dwellers are most likely unimaginably wonderous and diverse. However impractical human space travel is, and will most likely remain, the idea of life in the stars lights a fire of discovery in men’s hearts. 

    • #169
  20. Flicker Coolidge
    Flicker
    @Flicker

    kedavis (View Comment):
    The biggest “problem” with life elsewhere in the galaxy/universe is that it’s unlikely to look human with just pointed ears or ridged noses etc, as we’ve been taught on Star Trek.

    But isn’t humans developing out of the slime scientifically justified by saying that the laws of physics predetermine it?

    • #170
  21. kedavis Coolidge
    kedavis
    @kedavis

    Flicker (View Comment):

    kedavis (View Comment):
    The biggest “problem” with life elsewhere in the galaxy/universe is that it’s unlikely to look human with just pointed ears or ridged noses etc, as we’ve been taught on Star Trek.

    But isn’t humans developing out of the slime scientifically justified by saying that the laws of physics predetermine it?

    Even if humanoid forms develop from slime on other worlds, doesn’t necessarily mean they will continue to evolve and become dominant as on Earth.  A lot of other forms also came from the slime, and in other environments on other worlds, one or more of those might become dominant instead.

    • #171
  22. Flicker Coolidge
    Flicker
    @Flicker

    kedavis (View Comment):

    Flicker (View Comment):

    kedavis (View Comment):
    The biggest “problem” with life elsewhere in the galaxy/universe is that it’s unlikely to look human with just pointed ears or ridged noses etc, as we’ve been taught on Star Trek.

    But isn’t humans developing out of the slime scientifically justified by saying that the laws of physics predetermine it?

    Even if humanoid forms develop from slime on other worlds, doesn’t necessarily mean they will continue to evolve and become dominant as on Earth. A lot of other forms also came from the slime, and in other environments on other worlds, one or more of those might become dominant instead.

    So when the universe made humans it broke the slime mold?

    • #172
  23. kedavis Coolidge
    kedavis
    @kedavis

    Flicker (View Comment):

    kedavis (View Comment):

    Flicker (View Comment):

    kedavis (View Comment):
    The biggest “problem” with life elsewhere in the galaxy/universe is that it’s unlikely to look human with just pointed ears or ridged noses etc, as we’ve been taught on Star Trek.

    But isn’t humans developing out of the slime scientifically justified by saying that the laws of physics predetermine it?

    Even if humanoid forms develop from slime on other worlds, doesn’t necessarily mean they will continue to evolve and become dominant as on Earth. A lot of other forms also came from the slime, and in other environments on other worlds, one or more of those might become dominant instead.

    So when the universe made humans it broke the slime mold?

    Maybe just on Earth.

    • #173
  24. OccupantCDN Coolidge
    OccupantCDN
    @OccupantCDN

    kedavis (View Comment):
    The biggest “problem” with life elsewhere in the galaxy/universe is that it’s unlikely to look human with just pointed ears or ridged noses etc, as we’ve been taught on Star Trek.

    The Star Trek aliens have more to do with the limitations of effects, make up and budget of making a tv show. Thats why the Caitians were saved for the Star Trek Animated series (and have appeared in no other Star Trek project) 

    • #174
  25. kedavis Coolidge
    kedavis
    @kedavis

    OccupantCDN (View Comment):

    kedavis (View Comment):
    The biggest “problem” with life elsewhere in the galaxy/universe is that it’s unlikely to look human with just pointed ears or ridged noses etc, as we’ve been taught on Star Trek.

    The Star Trek aliens have more to do with the limitations of effects, make up and budget of making a tv show. Thats why the Caitians were saved for the Star Trek Animated series (and have appeared in no other Star Trek project)

    Well of course.  The Talosians were originally meant to be crab-like creatures, but they didn’t have the budget or effects for that either, in the mid-1960s.  (I think the first pilot was made in 1964.)  Making them basically human except for the head, was the path of least resistance, but also led to some stupidity such as Vina talking about how the Talosians had never seen a human before and so didn’t know how to put her back together after the crash.  But the Talosians wound up being bipeds etc too, which made that excuse kinda ridiculous.  (In addition to their ability to read minds which would have made it possible for them to find out how Vina saw herself, and work from that…)

    • #175
  26. Henry Racette Member
    Henry Racette
    @HenryRacette

    At the risk of turning the discussion away from the oh-my-God-just-shoot-me-now topic of Star Trek…

    One of the most unknown of unknowns in the Drake equation is the probability of life evolving into intelligence. Intelligence obviously has enormous survival value, as evidenced by the fact that humanity completely rocks the business of dominating this planet.

     It would be interesting to know if, before sapiens rose to stardom, any other branch of the tree of life demonstrated significant intellectual development. Or to identify neurological traits which would suggest a potential in that regard for some other order of life.

    Without any particular reason for believing so, other than our own example here on Earth, I suspect that life is much more common than intelligence. I am skeptical that life itself is all that rare. Intelligence may be another matter.

    Incidentally, I once heard a definition of life as “chemical reactions that evolve.” I kind of like that one.

    • #176
  27. kedavis Coolidge
    kedavis
    @kedavis

    Henry Racette (View Comment):
    Without any particular reason for believing so, other than our own example here on Earth, I suspect that life is much more common than intelligence. I am skeptical that life itself is all that rare. Intelligence may be another matter.

    Well it would have to be, since life has to exist before intelligence.

    It might have been better phrased as something like “while life may actually be very common, intelligence/sentience could be quite rare.”

    • #177
  28. OccupantCDN Coolidge
    OccupantCDN
    @OccupantCDN

    Henry Racette (View Comment):

    At the risk of turning the discussion away from the oh-my-God-just-shoot-me-now topic of Star Trek…

    One of the most unknown of unknowns in the Drake equation is the probability of life evolving into intelligence. Intelligence obviously has enormous survival value, as evidenced by the fact that humanity completely rocks the business of dominating this planet.

    It would be interesting to know if, before sapiens rose to stardom, any other branch of the tree of life demonstrated significant intellectual development. Or to identify neurological traits which would suggest a potential in that regard for some other order of life.

    Without any particular reason for believing so, other than our own example here on Earth, I suspect that life is much more common than intelligence. I am skeptical that life itself is all that rare. Intelligence may be another matter.

    Incidentally, I once heard a definition of life as “chemical reactions that evolve.” I kind of like that one.

    Sorry. Star Trek is dead.

    I think we can generally agree that the Drake Equation is not really science. There are so many unknowns in that equations – things that we can’t even provide a reasoned estimate for – that it becomes pointless algebra. To quote Sheldon “everybody knows 9 smells like gasoline”…

    And that life is far more common than intelligence… The clouds of Venus, Mars, Moons of Jupiter and Saturn of all been speculated to be hosts of life – but nothing much more complex than bacteria … I have to disagree that chemical reactions evolve – the chemical reaction that occur in a human cell is not different that occur in bacteria or cats… What differs is the complexity of the organism harnessing those reactions. Maybe I am splitting hares on that concept. I’ll have to think on that one some more.

    • #178
  29. Saint Augustine Member
    Saint Augustine
    @SaintAugustine

    Henry Racette (View Comment):

    At the risk of turning the discussion away from the oh-my-God-just-shoot-me-now topic of Star Trek…

    Why do such a thing?

    • #179
  30. Saint Augustine Member
    Saint Augustine
    @SaintAugustine

    OccupantCDN (View Comment):

    Sorry. Star Trek is dead.

    Heretic.

    • #180
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