About Those UFOs. I Have a Theory.

 

One night in the spring of 1980, shortly before midnight, I left my dorm room at New Mexico Institute of Mining and Technology in Socorro, New Mexico, got in my pale blue 1972 VW Super Beetle, and drove west into the desert toward the tiny town of Magdalena. Magdalena, population 900 or so, isn’t precisely the middle of nowhere. The middle of nowhere, and my destination, was about 20 miles further west, in the high desert basin known as the Plains of San Augustin. The 1947 “Roswell Incident,” much featured in UFO mythology, purportedly occurred on that isolated plain, but that isn’t what drew me there that clear moonlit night.

The Very Large Array (VLA) is a group of 27 radio telescopes spread out in an enormous Y on the Plains of San Augustin. The dishes, weighing more than 200 tons each on their multi-story gantries, can be moved by rail to vary the size of the Y, the legs of which can be more than 20 miles long at their greatest extent. Using a technique known as interferometry, the array can achieve, in some instances, the resolving power of a single dish with a diameter equivalent to the span of the array.

I read voraciously as a child. I’d walk the few blocks from my elementary school to the library when school got out and then stay there reading until my father picked me up on his way home from work. I quickly exhausted the children’s section, one small room clearly demarcated from the much larger, newer area of the library, and so one day ventured cautiously around the corner and into the grown-up space. As it happens, the wall of books immediately adjacent to the children’s area contained science fiction; I stopped there, and never wandered farther into the library. Science fiction gripped my young imagination; it has never let go.

There are few sights more romantic and unworldly to a lover of science fiction than the VLA by moonlight.


I’ve never been a big Carl Sagan fan, but I enjoyed the 1997 movie adaptation of his 1985 novel Contact. Part of that enjoyment came from seeing Jodie Foster in the starring role, sitting on the hood of her car parked under that same VLA I visited repeatedly as a young man, listening for sounds of extraterrestrial life. I’d been there; more, I’d wondered the same thing her character wondered: is anyone out there?

The Search for Extraterrestrial Intelligence Project, better known as SETI, is an effort to detect the faint radio transmissions of advanced life out in our galaxy. Many of us who think it unlikely that we occupy this universe alone expected to have discovered some distant radio source by now, some evidence that at least one other species has reached the level of technology we achieved a century ago. That hasn’t happened, and there are numerous theories as to why it hasn’t. One theory that I stubbornly reject as implausible is that there’s no one no thing out there, that we’re alone — at least alone in this portion of our galaxy. I’d prefer to think that the technological window during which a civilization might produce detectable radio emissions in a profligate fashion is narrow, and we’ve simply missed it: now their transmissions are so perfectly compressed as to be indistinguishable from static, and so efficiently directed as to miss us entirely. They’re out there; we just can’t hear them. Anyway, that’s my hope.

Now we hear that UFOs are real. What are we to make of that?

I have a theory.

Assume that we really can’t go faster than the speed of light, that that paltry 186 thousand miles per second is the best we can ever do. Assume that wormholes and warping and subspace and improbability drives and all the rest will forever remain fiction. Assume all that and we’re left with a depressing thought — depressing, at least, for anyone hopeful that we’ll make contact with another civilization.

There’s no plausible reason to journey across the light years in pursuit of material resources. There just isn’t an economic model under which that makes sense. Oh, maybe one could be contrived in a rare instance — say, the need of some race in a planet-poor system to collect the raw material with which to build its own Dyson sphere or parts thereof. But that’s a long way to go for stuff that can almost certainly be found closer to home.

That means no interstellar wars, no Independence Day, no Starship Troopers, no Ender’s Game. (And no mediocre sequels either.) I guess that’s good. But it also means no Close Encounters, no ET, no Day the Earth Stood Still. No Contact. No contact at all.

It seems unlikely that they’d make the trip simply to meet people. Presumably, if they were interested in making our acquaintance, they’d have called ahead, sent us a message by now, long before they arrived in “person.” And if they had made the trip, why would they flit around our planet for decades, never quite revealing themselves, never actually saying hello? Why be that way?

But I’m an optimist. I want to believe that there’s life out there, that UFOs could be real. I just need it to make sense.


Imagine that there are advanced civilizations out there. For reasons we don’t understand we’re unable to see their radio signature. Perhaps they’ve moved beyond radio; perhaps their encoding is simply too subtle, or their focus too precise, for us to detect them. But imagine that they’re out there. They’re technologically advanced, wealthy by material standards, vastly more knowledgeable than we are. What could we have that might possibly interest them, that they couldn’t find on their own?

Novelty. Authentic novelty.

The wonders of the ocean depths, of the darkest African jungle, or of the icy extremes of Antarctica will, when packaged in sufficiently high fidelity and seen enough times, lose their romantic appeal. Been there, done that: nothing, no matter how awe-inspiring and dramatic, retains its impact after sufficient viewing.

One thing an advanced civilization can’t simply create is something natural and authentic and unexpected. It may be able to synthesize, simulate, and invent almost anything, but not anything authentically alien and mysterious. It can’t create novelty.

So what they do is send automated probes out into the universe. These probes have a mission, to collect information about other places and send that information home. They’re instructed to avoid contaminating the worlds they find, because contamination diminishes the authenticity of their discoveries, and hence their value. So these probes scatter throughout the galaxy, replicating in out-of-the-way places, always looking for that most novel of things, life, and, beyond that, for the even greater richness of alien intelligence. What could be more novel, after all, than alien civilization?

The probes would try to avoid contaminating such a civilization as it developed. Its novelty and authenticity would depend on that. But, once that civilization reached a certain level of development, once all the knowledge that could be safely gathered without risk of discovery had been accumulated, it would be time to communicate with the alien civilization, to learn as much as possible for the eager minds far away. Perhaps the probes would offer knowledge in return, as an incentive for greater openness and communication.

Perhaps we’ve reached that level of development.


I don’t write fiction because I’m not good at it. I’ve tried. But I thought about a short story years ago, the gist of which is this:

Aliens land at the White House. They tell the President et al that the galaxy is full of advanced civilizations, Earth is a dirt poor little backwater planet with nothing of value… except for that novelty I’ve described. They explain that they’ve been sent to catalog everything about our world and to hold that information in trust, so that the profit from its release to the galactic federation can be invested in Earth’s technological development and we can join the fellowship of other advanced civilizations.

With the permission of Earth’s leaders, the aliens exhaustively catalog everything about our world. Their cameras and probes and scanners are everywhere, we’re tripping over them as they rush to document everything before it’s contaminated by exposure to the inevitable tourists and sightseers who we’re told will soon follow the discovery of our planet. And then one day they’re all gone, their ships and their cameras all vanished.

A few weeks later another delegation arrives at the White House. They explain that they are the official representatives of the galactic federation. They regret to inform us that poachers have preceded them to Earth, that Earth’s pirated intellectual property has been disseminated to the stars — we’re the latest fad, our three minutes of fame are almost up, and there are, unfortunately, no profits banked for the development of our sad little backwater.

Then one of the aliens looks at the Mickey Mouse watch on his wrist and says they have to go.

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  1. Henry Racette Member
    Henry Racette
    @HenryRacette

    Mike Rapkoch (View Comment):

    I remain deeply skeptical. My doubts seem to be backed up by recent research done by a group of scientists and mathematicians from Oxford who, after careful study of the data concluded that it is highly unlikely that other intelligent life exists anywhere in the universe. I won’t pretend to understand the math and research, but I see much merit in their conclusion. Consider that there are billions of life forms on earth, most of which have yet to be identified, yet only humans possess reason (or what passes for reason). I’ll go from skeptic to believer when aliens land on earth and say “Wassup?”

    I also am skeptical, though somewhat less skeptical than I was before the recent revelations.

    However, I’m not a big enthusiast for the Drake equation and variations on it. The absence of clear evidence of extraterrestrial life fuels my skepticism of UFOs; my skepticism of models involving lots of unknowns makes me pretty much dismissive of attempts to figure out just how likely such life is.

    • #31
  2. Jerry Giordano (Arizona Patrio… Member
    Jerry Giordano (Arizona Patrio…
    @ArizonaPatriot

    I remain deeply skeptical of any claim, on any side, to have evaluated the question of the existence of intelligent life as a “mathematical” or “statistical” question.

    We have one, and only one, observation.  We have incontrovertible evidence that there is life on earth, and zero evidence that there is life elsewhere.  (Well, maybe except the UFOs . . .)

    I’m trying to think of a good analogy.  Imagine that you were the first European explorer in the Pacific Ocean.  You land on Easter Island, and find those giant stone carved head thingies.

    It’s the only island that you’ve encountered.  You don’t even know how many other islands there may be.  How do you estimate the probability that there are other islands with the stone head thingies?

    You can’t.  To pretend that you can do so is silly, or ignorant, or arrogant, or some combination thereof.   Or, more innocently, a harmless but baseless topic for discussion over drinks, preferably whisky (but not a peaty one if you’re talking to Lucretia). Any opinion at all is not math, not science, not statistics.  It is a WEG.

    A WEG, by the way, is my polite version of a WAG.  “E” is for “Eyed.”

    am a bit disappointed that no one has yet mentioned the fabulous Drake Equation.  I just love that one.  You want to calculate a completely unknown probability, so you express it as the product of three other (but equally unknown) probabilities, and you pretend that you’ve made progress.

    Maybe I’m too hard on the Drake equation folks.  In theory, it’s a sensible way to try to tackle the problem, if we had a way of determining all of the relevant sub-probabilities. Which we don’t.

    The Drake Equation is not really useful, at all, for determining whether there is other intelligent life.  In order to estimate at least one of the relevant probabilities, you have to observe at least one other form of intelligent life.  If you’ve done that, you’ve answered the question of whether it exists.  If your number of observations of actual, intelligent life is zero, then determining all of the other probabilities remains useless, because a gazillion times zero is still zero.

    • #32
  3. Jerry Giordano (Arizona Patrio… Member
    Jerry Giordano (Arizona Patrio…
    @ArizonaPatriot

    Jerry Giordano (Arizona Patrio… (View Comment):

    I remain deeply skeptical of any claim, on any side, to have evaluated the question of the existence of intelligent life as a “mathematical” or “statistical” question.

    We have one, and only one, observation. We have incontrovertible evidence that there is life on earth, and zero evidence that there is life elsewhere. (Well, maybe except the UFOs . . .)

    I’m trying to think of a good analogy. Imagine that you were the first European explorer in the Pacific Ocean. You land on Easter Island, and find those giant stone carved head thingies.

    It’s the only island that you’ve encountered. You don’t even know how many other islands there may be. How do you estimate the probability that there are other islands with the stone head thingies?

    You can’t. To pretend that you can do so is silly, or ignorant, or arrogant, or some combination thereof. Or, more innocently, a harmless but baseless topic for discussion over drinks, preferably whisky (but not a peaty one if you’re talking to Lucretia). Any opinion at all is not math, not science, not statistics. It is a WEG.

    A WEG, by the way, is my polite version of a WAG. “E” is for “Eyed.”

    I am a bit disappointed that no one has yet mentioned the fabulous Drake Equation. I just love that one. You want to calculate a completely unknown probability, so you express it as the product of three other (but equally unknown) probabilities, and you pretend that you’ve made progress.

    Maybe I’m too hard on the Drake equation folks. In theory, it’s a sensible way to try to tackle the problem, if we had a way of determining all of the relevant sub-probabilities. Which we don’t.

    The Drake Equation is not really useful, at all, for determining whether there is other intelligent life. In order to estimate at least one of the relevant probabilities, you have to observe at least one other form of intelligent life. If you’ve done that, you’ve answered the question of whether it exists. If your number of observations of actual, intelligent life is zero, then determining all of the other probabilities remains useless, because a gazillion times zero is still zero.

    It occurs to me that our number of observations of actual intelligent life is one, not zero.  Us.  Well, at least we all assume that we qualify.  :)

    • #33
  4. Mark Camp Member
    Mark Camp
    @MarkCamp

    Annefy (View Comment):

    I’ve been to Roswell many times. The very last time, I took then 12-year old son #3 with me for company. He’s best described as quirky, from a very young age he would speak a little strangely and his interests were always unusual.

    Anyway, I was telling a sister that I was worried about bringing him to Roswell; that he might want to stay. Sister replied: If I were you, I’d be worried that people start saying “welcome back”.

    I read this to my wife and she laughed.  She normally just barely tolerates my Ricochet habit (hm…like most of you, now that I think of it) so you should take this as a Like!

    • #34
  5. Saint Augustine Member
    Saint Augustine
    @SaintAugustine

    Jerry Giordano (Arizona Patrio… (View Comment):
    It occurs to me that our number of observations of actual intelligent life is one, not zero.  Us. 

    Even after that last election?

    And after Frozen 2?

    • #35
  6. JustmeinAZ Member
    JustmeinAZ
    @JustmeinAZ

    Jerry Giordano (Arizona Patrio… (View Comment):
    A WEG, by the way, is my polite version of a WAG.  “E” is for “Eyed.”

    In Finance/Accounting we called it a SWAG. Very useful in preparing five year plans.

    • #36
  7. kedavis Coolidge
    kedavis
    @kedavis

    Henry Racette (View Comment):

    Mike Rapkoch (View Comment):

    I remain deeply skeptical. My doubts seem to be backed up by recent research done by a group of scientists and mathematicians from Oxford who, after careful study of the data concluded that it is highly unlikely that other intelligent life exists anywhere in the universe. I won’t pretend to understand the math and research, but I see much merit in their conclusion. Consider that there are billions of life forms on earth, most of which have yet to be identified, yet only humans possess reason (or what passes for reason). I’ll go from skeptic to believer when aliens land on earth and say “Wassup?”

    I also am skeptical, though somewhat less skeptical than I was before the recent revelations.

    However, I’m not a big enthusiast for the Drake equation and variations on it. The absence of clear evidence of extraterrestrial life fuels my skepticism of UFOs; my skepticism of models involving lots of unknowns makes me pretty much dismissive of attempts to figure out just how likely such life is.

    What we need is a good Bambleweeny 57 Submeson Brain.

    • #37
  8. Henry Racette Member
    Henry Racette
    @HenryRacette

    Jerry Giordano (Arizona Patrio… (View Comment):
    am a bit disappointed that no one has yet mentioned the fabulous Drake Equation.

    Missed it by that much. ;)

    (See comment #31.)

    • #38
  9. kedavis Coolidge
    kedavis
    @kedavis

    Jerry Giordano (Arizona Patrio… (View Comment):

    I remain deeply skeptical of any claim, on any side, to have evaluated the question of the existence of intelligent life as a “mathematical” or “statistical” question.

    We have one, and only one, observation. We have incontrovertible evidence that there is life on earth, and zero evidence that there is life elsewhere. (Well, maybe except the UFOs . . .)

    I’m trying to think of a good analogy. Imagine that you were the first European explorer in the Pacific Ocean. You land on Easter Island, and find those giant stone carved head thingies.

    It’s the only island that you’ve encountered. You don’t even know how many other islands there may be. How do you estimate the probability that there are other islands with the stone head thingies?

    You can’t. To pretend that you can do so is silly, or ignorant, or arrogant, or some combination thereof. Or, more innocently, a harmless but baseless topic for discussion over drinks, preferably whisky (but not a peaty one if you’re talking to Lucretia). Any opinion at all is not math, not science, not statistics. It is a WEG.

    A WEG, by the way, is my polite version of a WAG. “E” is for “Eyed.”

    I am a bit disappointed that no one has yet mentioned the fabulous Drake Equation. I just love that one. You want to calculate a completely unknown probability, so you express it as the product of three other (but equally unknown) probabilities, and you pretend that you’ve made progress.

    Maybe I’m too hard on the Drake equation folks. In theory, it’s a sensible way to try to tackle the problem, if we had a way of determining all of the relevant sub-probabilities. Which we don’t.

    The Drake Equation is not really useful, at all, for determining whether there is other intelligent life. In order to estimate at least one of the relevant probabilities, you have to observe at least one other form of intelligent life. If you’ve done that, you’ve answered the question of whether it exists. If your number of observations of actual, intelligent life is zero, then determining all of the other probabilities remains useless, because a gazillion times zero is still zero.

    I often figure that the chances of something happening are either 100% or 0, depending on whether or not it happens.

    • #39
  10. kedavis Coolidge
    kedavis
    @kedavis

    Meanwhile…

     

    • #40
  11. Flicker Coolidge
    Flicker
    @Flicker

    Saint Augustine (View Comment):

    Barfly (View Comment):

    If the Navy’s UFOs are real, then our understanding of the laws of physics is incomplete. No matter what, however, our understanding is provably correct. Nobody ever said it was complete.

    If they’re real and purely physical beings.

    I wouldn’t want to rule out supernatural theories too quickly.

    Oooo!  You said Supernatural!  I like it.

    • #41
  12. Flicker Coolidge
    Flicker
    @Flicker

    Jerry Giordano (Arizona Patrio… (View Comment):
    We have one, and only one, observation.  We have incontrovertible evidence that there is life on earth, and zero evidence that there is life elsewhere.

    No life?  Not even in Heaven? :)

    • #42
  13. Mark Camp Member
    Mark Camp
    @MarkCamp

    The economics

    If MMT claims this:

    In order for politicians to give certain goods and services to people in a certain accounting period,

    • they don’t need any particular amount of money (money assets in the Treasury Department’s S and GA account at the Fed), or money liabilities (Treasury securities), or equity (assets minus liabilities)
    • it is both necessary AND SUFFICIENT only for
      • others to have produced those real goods, and
      • for the politicians to have taken ownership of them

    then they’re right.

    The politics

    If politicians (a) get most people confusing money with wealth (the confusion that forms the basis of MMT) then (b) they have already won the battle.

    How are they doing at (a)?

    To take an unscientific survey, look at how many Ricochet criticisms of MMT are about the the first bullet.  Money. The set of things that have no effect on the ability of politicians to disburse real goods and services to voters and their friends (or consume them, themselves.)

    Then look at how many criticisms are about the bullet that matters: real goods and services produced by the people and taken by politicians.

    The politicians have won the battle, so far.

    It is the dreary duty of economics to convince the people that they have erred.

    • #43
  14. kedavis Coolidge
    kedavis
    @kedavis

    Flicker (View Comment):

    Jerry Giordano (Arizona Patrio… (View Comment):
    We have one, and only one, observation. We have incontrovertible evidence that there is life on earth, and zero evidence that there is life elsewhere.

    No life? Not even in Heaven? :)

    Belinda Carlisle sang “Heaven Is A Place On Earth” but that doesn’t mean she’s right.

    • #44
  15. Charlotte Member
    Charlotte
    @Charlotte

    Mark Camp (View Comment):

    If MMT claims this:

    In order for politicians to give certain goods and services to people in a certain accounting period,

    • they don’t need any particular amount of money (money assets in the Treasury Department’s S and GA account at the Fed), or money liabilities (Treasury securities), or equity (assets minus liabilities)
    • it is both necessary AND SUFFICIENT only for
      • others to have produced those real goods, and
      • for the politicians to have taken ownership of them

    then they’re right.

    If politicians (a) get everyone confusing money with wealth (the basis of MMT) then (b) they have already won the battle. (a) They have, and (b) they have, so far.

    It is the dreary duty of economics to convince the people that they have erred.

    MMT as an alien plot makes about as much sense as the “official” explanation.

    • #45
  16. Henry Castaigne Member
    Henry Castaigne
    @HenryCastaigne

    kedavis (View Comment):

    Flicker (View Comment):

    Jerry Giordano (Arizona Patrio… (View Comment):
    We have one, and only one, observation. We have incontrovertible evidence that there is life on earth, and zero evidence that there is life elsewhere.

    No life? Not even in Heaven? :)

    Belinda Carlisle sang “Heaven Is A Place On Earth” but that doesn’t mean she’s right.

    Does anyone else think of interracial lesbianism whenever they hear that song? Because in my brain, that song is forever associated with that subject. 

    • #46
  17. Henry Castaigne Member
    Henry Castaigne
    @HenryCastaigne

    Saint Augustine (View Comment):

    Barfly (View Comment):

    If the Navy’s UFOs are real, then our understanding of the laws of physics is incomplete. No matter what, however, our understanding is provably correct. Nobody ever said it was complete.

    If they’re real and purely physical beings.

    I wouldn’t want to rule out supernatural theories too quickly.

    I feel bad about agreeing with Saint Augustine but it might be fairies from another dimension. I know that this sounds like I’m taking the train to crazytown but space is so huge that slipping in between dimensions might be easier. 

    • #47
  18. Henry Castaigne Member
    Henry Castaigne
    @HenryCastaigne

    Saint Augustine (View Comment):

    Henry Castaigne (View Comment):

    Respectfully, your third son sounds like a high-functioning autistic. Not for nothing is autism called the wrong planet syndrome. Of course I don’t have enough evidence to make a serious judgment but your recalling heavily suggest it.

    https://wrongplanet.net

    I’m not familiar with this. Google wasn’t much help, but it did turn up some theory that autistic people have alien DNA.

    Is it called wrong planet syndrome as a metaphor, or because of that theory, or both?

    It’s a metaphor. Often autistic people feel that they are different from other people like they are secretly aliens. It might be worth looking into. 

    • #48
  19. Saint Augustine Member
    Saint Augustine
    @SaintAugustine

    Henry Castaigne (View Comment):

    Saint Augustine (View Comment):

    Barfly (View Comment):

    If the Navy’s UFOs are real, then our understanding of the laws of physics is incomplete. No matter what, however, our understanding is provably correct. Nobody ever said it was complete.

    If they’re real and purely physical beings.

    I wouldn’t want to rule out supernatural theories too quickly.

    I feel bad about agreeing with Saint Augustine but it might be fairies from another dimension. I know that this sounds like I’m taking the train to crazytown but space is so huge that slipping in between dimensions might be easier.

    I wouldn’t call that supernatural.

    Or maybe I would.

    Interdimensional fairies. Well, that’s got to be in some category or other.

    • #49
  20. Charlotte Member
    Charlotte
    @Charlotte

    Henry Racette: New Mexico Institute of Mining and Technology

    Have you and @majestyk compared notes on mining-themed alma maters?

    • #50
  21. Saint Augustine Member
    Saint Augustine
    @SaintAugustine

    Henry Castaigne (View Comment):

    Saint Augustine (View Comment):

    Henry Castaigne (View Comment):

    Respectfully, your third son sounds like a high-functioning autistic. Not for nothing is autism called the wrong planet syndrome. Of course I don’t have enough evidence to make a serious judgment but your recalling heavily suggest it.

    https://wrongplanet.net

    I’m not familiar with this. Google wasn’t much help, but it did turn up some theory that autistic people have alien DNA.

    Is it called wrong planet syndrome as a metaphor, or because of that theory, or both?

    It’s a metaphor. Often autistic people feel that they are different from other people like they are secretly aliens. It might be worth looking into.

    Better yet–look into the theory that those other people are the aliens.  They’re the weirdos.

    • #51
  22. Flicker Coolidge
    Flicker
    @Flicker

    kedavis (View Comment):

    Flicker (View Comment):

    Jerry Giordano (Arizona Patrio… (View Comment):
    We have one, and only one, observation. We have incontrovertible evidence that there is life on earth, and zero evidence that there is life elsewhere.

    No life? Not even in Heaven? :)

    Belinda Carlisle sang “Heaven Is A Place On Earth” but that doesn’t mean she’s right.

    Yeah, there are three heavens and earth only has one of them.

    • #52
  23. Henry Castaigne Member
    Henry Castaigne
    @HenryCastaigne

    Flicker (View Comment):

    kedavis (View Comment):

    Flicker (View Comment):

    Jerry Giordano (Arizona Patrio… (View Comment):
    We have one, and only one, observation. We have incontrovertible evidence that there is life on earth, and zero evidence that there is life elsewhere.

    No life? Not even in Heaven? :)

    Belinda Carlisle sang “Heaven Is A Place On Earth” but that doesn’t mean she’s right.

    Yeah, there are three heavens and earth only has one of them.

    Exactly where in the Bible is that? I’ve never heard that one before. 

    • #53
  24. kedavis Coolidge
    kedavis
    @kedavis

    Henry Castaigne (View Comment):

    kedavis (View Comment):

    Flicker (View Comment):

    Jerry Giordano (Arizona Patrio… (View Comment):
    We have one, and only one, observation. We have incontrovertible evidence that there is life on earth, and zero evidence that there is life elsewhere.

    No life? Not even in Heaven? :)

    Belinda Carlisle sang “Heaven Is A Place On Earth” but that doesn’t mean she’s right.

    Does anyone else think of interracial lesbianism whenever they hear that song? Because in my brain, that song is forever associated with that subject.

    Uhhh. 

    I’ll probably regret this, but…

    Why?

    • #54
  25. Henry Castaigne Member
    Henry Castaigne
    @HenryCastaigne

    kedavis (View Comment):

    Henry Castaigne (View Comment):

    kedavis (View Comment):

    Flicker (View Comment):

    Jerry Giordano (Arizona Patrio… (View Comment):
    We have one, and only one, observation. We have incontrovertible evidence that there is life on earth, and zero evidence that there is life elsewhere.

    No life? Not even in Heaven? :)

    Belinda Carlisle sang “Heaven Is A Place On Earth” but that doesn’t mean she’s right.

    Does anyone else think of interracial lesbianism whenever they hear that song? Because in my brain, that song is forever associated with that subject.

    Uhhh.

    I’ll probably regret this, but…

    Why?

    There was a very good Black Mirror episode that used that song and it had interracial lesbianism. Don’t worry, it wasn’t obnoxiously Woke. The story and character development was good enough that folks who are generally not too interested in lesbianism would appreciate it.

    The episode was called San Junipero and it was on season 3. Here is a run down of the episode. I recommend it.

    • #55
  26. Randy Webster Inactive
    Randy Webster
    @RandyWebster

    Jerry Giordano (Arizona Patrio… (View Comment):
    Maybe I’m too hard on the Drake equation folks.  In theory, it’s a sensible way to try to tackle the problem, if we had a way of determining all of the relevant sub-probabilities. Which we don’t.

    Sounds like a significant digits problem.

    • #56
  27. Henry Racette Member
    Henry Racette
    @HenryRacette

    Randy Webster (View Comment):

    Jerry Giordano (Arizona Patrio… (View Comment):
    Maybe I’m too hard on the Drake equation folks. In theory, it’s a sensible way to try to tackle the problem, if we had a way of determining all of the relevant sub-probabilities. Which we don’t.

    Sounds like a significant digits problem.

    No, it’s much worse than that. Several of the terms of the Drake equation are pure speculation. It isn’t a matter of lack of precision, it’s a matter of no basis for making any assumption.

    It really was never intended to be more than a starting point for discussion. But it caught the public’s imagination.

    • #57
  28. Randy Webster Inactive
    Randy Webster
    @RandyWebster

    Henry Racette (View Comment):

    Randy Webster (View Comment):

    Jerry Giordano (Arizona Patrio… (View Comment):
    Maybe I’m too hard on the Drake equation folks. In theory, it’s a sensible way to try to tackle the problem, if we had a way of determining all of the relevant sub-probabilities. Which we don’t.

    Sounds like a significant digits problem.

    No, it’s much worse than that. Several of the terms of the Drake equation are pure speculation. It isn’t a matter of lack of precision, it’s a matter of no basis for making any assumption.

    It really was never intended to be more than a starting point for discussion. But it caught the public’s imagination.

    It didn’t catch my imagination.  I’ve never heard of it before.

    • #58
  29. Henry Racette Member
    Henry Racette
    @HenryRacette

    Randy Webster (View Comment):

    Henry Racette (View Comment):

    Randy Webster (View Comment):

    Jerry Giordano (Arizona Patrio… (View Comment):
    Maybe I’m too hard on the Drake equation folks. In theory, it’s a sensible way to try to tackle the problem, if we had a way of determining all of the relevant sub-probabilities. Which we don’t.

    Sounds like a significant digits problem.

    No, it’s much worse than that. Several of the terms of the Drake equation are pure speculation. It isn’t a matter of lack of precision, it’s a matter of no basis for making any assumption.

    It really was never intended to be more than a starting point for discussion. But it caught the public’s imagination.

    It didn’t catch my imagination. I’ve never heard of it before.

    Wasn’t everybody talking about it? Huh, maybe not. I’m often out of touch with what’s popular. ;)

    • #59
  30. Bryan Van Blaricom Member
    Bryan Van Blaricom
    @BryanVanBlaricom

    Jerry Giordano (Arizona Patrio… (View Comment):

    I tended to like SciFi stories in which humans seemed hopelessly primitive when they first encounter ETs, but in which we turn out to be very special indeed. The ones that come to mind are Clarke’s Rescue Party, David Brin’s Uplift series, and Julian May’s Many Colored Land series. On TV, Babylon Five had this theme.

    Another fun one, with a similar premise but different twist, is John Ringo’s Troy Rising series, which starts off with the maple syrup war. That’s enough of a teaser, if you haven’t read it.

    If you haven’t already read it, Alan Dean Foster’s “With Friends Like These” is a short story in the same vein as Rescue Party, an archetypal story of the primitive Earthlings being waaay more advanced than the visiting aliens could have imagined…

    • #60
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