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What Do You Pray For, Big Picture?
For the devout: What do you see as the “end game” of the world? This seems like a simple question, but I think it may not be.
Among Christians, is there a shared belief in a Second Coming, and is it what every Christian prays for? Do Christians even pray for it, if grace is supposed to come regardless of merit? You can see I am genuinely lost here.
For Jews, you might think it is simpler: Jews generally pray for the coming of the Messiah. Except when they don’t. There is a mixture of differing goals: the coming of Messiah is not clearly distinct from the Third Temple or even the resurrection of the dead. Speaking for myself, I focus on the Torah, which has no Messiah at all: my desired end state is a world in which Jews both perform all the commandments, and seek to understand the meaning behind all of them. I have no expectation of an “end” state to the world since it is not in the text. Instead, I see a continual process, but few specific products.
And for Muslims, I understand there are some visions of a global caliphate, a single politico-religious entity. Is such a caliphate run by a prophet? A philosopher-king? And am I entirely off-base on this?
If you believe in an end-of-time or some kind of “Finish Line” for the world, what do you think are its main features?
Published in General
It was.
Too late. You’ve been on my prayer list for a while.
I have heard about Jesus, though, and read the gospels. It wouldn’t be fair to say I haven’t heard about Jesus. I always assumed that applied to those, say, in parts of Africa.
More likely parts of California, I’d say.
But you need to read the blog post and not just the URL. The principles apply to your situation.
Excellent. Thanks St. A.
My pleasure. I enjoy being a nerd. Hey, did I mention that this nifty new Christian worldview book is cheap on Kindle?
When I clicked on it it said $32. That’s a little pricey for me. But it does look interesting.
That’s the hard copy. Kindle should be $9.99.
Militant agnostic. What I find disturbing about Christianity is faith. Like Susan Quinn, I am fine with folks wanting to convert me for my welfare.
An interesting read, St. A. It helps me understand how at least some Christians might view who and what I am, even as a Jew. Thanks.
Thank you.
But it’s barely a start. And if you really want to know about “how at least some Christians might view” Jews, you need another blog post introducing three or more major theories, defining “supercessionism,” and other complicated stuff. I haven’t written that blog post; I don’t even know who has! (Best I’ve done is this old Ricochet thing.)
Can you share a Jewish perspective on the coming of the Messiah (the first time)? I heard that there is a clause on rental agreements in Israel on the length of the rental agreement that says something like: this contracted is terminated if the Messiah comes! No kidding! I think that is so funny.
A book I found interesting is The Apocalypse – Warning, Hope & Consolation by Michael D. O’Brien. He wrote the book Father Elijah which was amazing. This little book he wrote is a compilation of talks he gave across Canada where he lives, and was published in 2018. He talks about the unfolding of events in the End Times and understanding Revelation. He does believe we are in the End Times and he believes the Antichrist is alive and on the earth. He is Catholic and so keeps within that thought frame, which is different than Protestant belief. He describes the unfolding as St. John describes in the Book of Revelation of the final days not as linear in order, but as a multi-dimensional unfolding, almost simultaneously.
I’ve never thought of it that way, but time as we know it on earth is not the same as time in the heavenly realms. He says we will be in the midst of it as it unfolds, thinking this is just normal, like when people were eating and drinking as Noah was preparing the Ark. While Jesus describes these days, they will be attributed to climate change, or social upheaval, or viruses escaping from labs or bats, increasing of wars or some sort of natural explanation. These signs will be increasing.
He also wrote another small book called The Family and the New Totalitarianism in 2019. His experience in Canada raising 6 kids and the changes in the education system are exactly what’s happening here.
On another different note, it is also very strange that in Abu Dubai of all places, a big place of worship is being constructed that will house all three major faiths – Judaism, Christianity and Islam! The Pope signed an agreement with an Imam for the “center”. This is unprecedented. Multi-faith complex to rise where pope and imam signed agreement (aleteia.org)
There is really no agreement on the understanding of the coming of the Messiah, except there are general ideas of what it will entail, but the Jews will be leery. There were so many false Messiahs historically that we will want to be sure he has appeared. But there are mixed descriptions on the specifics, so I can’t help you there. I can tell you that the parts of the Torah that are supposed to predict the coming of the Messiah are not interpreted that way by Jews (as you probably know). The thing about land (I don’t think it has to do with rental agreements) is that technically the land of Israel belongs to G-d; therefore, we can’t conduct transactions to buy or sell it, because G-d has lent it to us to work the soil. But in modern times there have been some laws developed that provide for something like ownership. That’s all I know.
Yes.
I didn’t know this. Thanks.
We have wedding and bar mitzvah invitations to Jerusalem on such-and-such-a-date… but in the unlikely event that Moshiach has not come by then, then it will be in New Jersey…
That said, while Maimonides considers the coming of the Messiah a key belief in Judaism, there is nothing about it in the Torah. Instead, we get no “superhero” escape from our own responsibilities as G-d’s partners in this world.
So the Torah does not talk about the Messiah or how to recognize him when he comes? Who else has claimed that title of Messiah in The Torah or did the Jews give the title in the past to false Messiahs? I’m trying to understand your comment: “Jews will be leery. There were so many false Messiahs historically that we will want to be sure he has appeared.” For example – was Moses considered?
I consider the books of the Torah to be the same as the first five books of The Old Testament – is that an error?
Neither do Christians – believe me!
That’s a fair question, FSC. You can go to this link and it will give you the background on false messiahs. Moses was a prophet and greatly respected but never considered to be the Messiah. The Torah is the Five Books of Moses, so you are correct. Love your questions and love that I’m actually able to answer them!
Thanks for asking! You can go to this link to learn about the false messiahs. And yes, the Torah is the Five Books of Moses–Genesis, Exodus, Leviticus, Numbers and Deuteronomy; the Bible includes those plus the other writings such as Psalms and the Prophets.
Just asking some questions: Don’t Judaism and Islam both deny the concept of the Trinity? That Jesus is, in fact, one with G-d? (John 10:30) I would expect that to be considered blasphemous in both Judaism and Islam. If that’s the case, isn’t this contrary to 2 Cor 6:15 (“…what part has a believer with an unbeliever?) Do all three of those religions in truth worship the same G-d?
Yes, Judaism does not accept Jesus as the Messiah and therefore G-d is One (and there is no Trinity). That is what the Shema tells us: Hear, O Israel, the Lord our G-d, the Lord is One. I don’t know precisely how Islam sees Jesus. I don’t understand your question about the Corinthians quote. And for me, on one level, if there is only one G-d, we all worship Him. But many say we all worship a different G-d. I hope that makes sense.
So far as I know most – if not all – Christians would endorse the Shema (certainly this one does) and do not consider it contrary to the doctrine of the Trinity.
And thank you for answering!
I presume you wouldn’t say that about, for example, Hinduism?
Hinduism is tricky. They have deities, and (although I’m not sure of this), these deities are not elevated the way G-d is. Regarding the Shema, when we say One, we mean just One, not Three in One.
Neither am I, actually.
Could you elaborate?
Correct. Indeed, we are warned against false prophets. And that Moses is the purest conduit of G-d’s words:
and
Which we take to mean that we cannot add or subtract any commandments from the Torah. So nothing gets cancelled or “fulfilled” some other way. The document applies throughout time.
Nobody.
Here is one example: Shabtai Zvi. If you go to Jerusalem, there is always at least one man who claims to be the Messiah, hanging around the Western Wall.
No.
That is correct. The body of the canon is larger, but Judaism holds that the most core (and the only text that is G-d’s own words, capable of giving us commandments, etc.) are the Five Books. All later works are a lower level of fidelity, for commentary and not core information. This comes in part from what I quoted above: the Five Books themselves do not entertain subsequent texts that trump.
I take it much further: no two people worship the same G-d. The deity in our heads is our conception, not 100% shared with anyone else’s.
But less cutely: Judaism does not consider Jesus to be relevant to the G-d of the Torah.
I sing the shema with my students/children in morning prayer, and we also sing it at bedtime.
It can also be translated, “the Lord alone” in addition to “the Lord is one.”
Finally, even if one translates it as “the Lord is one,” we Christians who believe in the Trinity do in fact believe in one God. We believe that through the mystery revealed by Jesus Christ, the second person of the Blessed Trinity, the one true God exists as a Trinity, or “one God and three Divine Persons” as we say.
Or, as St. Athanasius taught, the Father is God, the Son is God, the Holy Spirit is God, and yet there are not three gods but one God.
It’s a mystery, which in Christian theology means a truth that we know because it was revealed by God, not through our human reason. The mystery of the Trinity is the central fact of Christianity. The Catholic Encyclopedia says, “Indeed of all revealed truths this is the most impenetrable to reason.”