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The Capitol PD Made the Right Call
This morning, a great deal of the conservative movement’s support for law enforcement went up in smoke. Whereas after any number of police shootings we spend time going over the video to explain why the use of force was justified, today prominent conservatives are calling the shooting of an Air Force veteran in the Capitol “murder.”
(Content warning): This is the moment where Capitol Police discharged their weapons:
GRAPHIC FOOTAGE: Police fatally shoot a Trump supporter inside the Capitol building. This is a sickening crime that should be prosecuted as such. pic.twitter.com/X8JK7HplJ7
— Dan Cohen (@dancohen3000) January 7, 2021
This is another angle:
Look carefully at this. She was unarmed, shot, and killed for what?
Crawling thru an interior window?
People storm police stations and don't get shot. This is very wrong. pic.twitter.com/lkTa2zXNQa
— HARLAN Z. HILL 🇺🇸 (@Harlan) January 7, 2021
I’m astounded it must be said, but I’ll say it anyway: You aren’t allowed to join a violent mob invading the Capitol and attempt to crawl through a window that members of your group broke and move in the direction of cowering lawmakers, a group of the most powerful people in the country.
Police didn’t know whether she was armed or not, and it’s irrelevant. If you’re in a government facility (or even a private residence) and you’re crawling through a broken window in the direction of people you have made clear you wish to harm (by virtue of being part of the storming mob), you are subjecting yourself to any manner of deterrence, lethal or not.
Honestly, it’s lucky for the group who stormed the Capitol that there was only one shooting-related death (there were three other deaths unrelated to firearms, but directly tied to the storming). The attempt by prominent members of the conservative movement to vilify the Capitol officer and paint Ashli Babbitt as a martyr is hypocritical and a dangerous precedent. We have no room vilify any member of a mob (whether they are BLM or Antifa-affiliated) ever again if we make excuses for why Babbitt didn’t bear responsibility for the tragic fate that befell her yesterday.
Published in General
Perhaps the most significant difference is that these people were attacking our government, not some ordinary buildings. What was their motive? Just a little afternoon fun?
But that’s already happened. Remember when they stormed the Senate during the Kavanaugh hearings? Interrupted the vote? The Dem/Media axis loved that.
I’m not saying that was okay either, but the difference in reaction here is quite telling. And everyone’s noticing that the media/Dem axis is not treating these incidents the same way.
This lady should not have been where she was and should not have been doing what she was doing. She shoulders her share of the blame for the end result.Â
That said I thought we as a society had reached the point where we agree that the police shooting and unarmed person is a “Bad Thing”. We give police less then lethal tools and even outlaw certain choke holds as too dangerous to the criminal. We also then celebrate, not just quietly accept or support, but celebrate a police officer killing an unarmed person by firing into a crowd?
I mean seriously we have had months of rioting were the use of tear gas was labeled as too extreme by some people but firing into a crowd is to be cheered.
I guess this is just another area where everything has to be black or white. Consider me grey.Â
They were protesting! Not violent overthrow or attack of government! What the hell are you talking about Jim? There is no evidence anyone was out to overthrow government or start a revolution.
I agree with the critique of the hypocrisy. Personally I think we should have used much harsher means to suppress riots/looting all along. I also think that this might just barely get over the line between protest and riot. Barely. My preference is harsh treatment of all instances. My fallback is that the rules should be the same here as they are for the rest, even if that means essentially letting the riot run its course.
Ah, I think I understand, are you objecting to his use of the word “insurrection”? Â
If you look at what the protestors were trying to accomplish, not whether it could work, the goal was not insurrection or the start of a revolution. They wanted the US government to continue as it exists, they wanted elected officials to make determination about the validity of the election and elected US officials to determine who should be President.
I don’t agree with what they were doing and don’t think it ever would have worked, but asking elected officials to make some determination is a far cry from a revolution or the overthrow of a governmentÂ
They wanted to be heard. They wanted to take selfies. I should like to think that when my livelihood is threatened the police would help, but as we have seen the powerful in government want to protect themselves, not necessarily the citizens of Kenosha or Portland.
While there were some destructive rioters, most of the people seemed to be taking selfies while staying within the velvet ropes, but sure it’s an insurrection or terrorism or whatever.
Definitely. Calling 1/6/21 insurrection is at once counterproductively exaggerating what actually happened and discounting what’s been going on the last year (the last few years really). I’m in no mood for it now and probably not ever. It’s a poor place to start, indicating that he’s not properly handicapping the fundamental drivers of the recent past and the near future.
No, we as a society (at least the soon to be governing Party and its quislings who are the Ones that do the important agreeing) have agreed that police shooting Persons of Color and Communist insurrectionists is a “Bad Thing.”
Police shooting Trump supporters is “protecting our sacred institutions and society from fascist violence” and therefore perhaps even a “Good Start.”
You need to become more sensitive to the correct use of language in the coming days.
How about the Capitol police doing their job correctly? There is not secret on how to handle large crowds and riots without shooting rioters. Riot shields, batons, tear gas, etc. have worked pretty well without having to resort to bullets.Â
I hope the Vice President will be there for them like she was for those who burned down Minneapolis.
Since I like the Electoral College, I have to agree with those who think the Court rightly refused to open the floodgates that would lead to its demise. In any case, if there was the massive fraud Trump claims, I have to wonder how a man with a billion dollars cannot find it. Large conspiracies always have leaks. What have we seen from actual witnesses? Not a whole lot, AFAIK. So yes, I still want a calm inquiry–as there should have been into the election and might have been if we had held the senate. What else have we? Rule by mob? No thanks. And yes, I voted for him twice. And yes there was fraud. But his appeal to his rump party is not what I want from a president. And yes, Biden will probably be worse.
Yeah, I think we should have be harsher in the prior riots. I don’t know that I can go all the way to lethal force in shooting unarmed people.Â
Maybe I am finding that I have a slightly more libertarian twist to my thinking. A trained police officer taking the life of a unarmed citizen should require a reasonably high bar.Â
I too was shocked when NPR referred to a “failed insurgency” (when they never used such language last summer.) But then I have to ask, what the hell is it when you invade a nation’s capitol while legislators are debating, overcoming the police in the process? I doubt they thought they could take over the government, yet they tried to coerce it in illegal ways. What should we call that?
Did those yahoos overcome police resistance to their entering the chamber? I thought they got in legally and then acted like the jerks they are. Not quite the same, methinks. But the point about the Dem axis-media is of course spot on.
Asking? This was asking? I didn’t see no stinkin’ asking.
Â
But didn’t a NYT editor get fired for publishing Cotton’s op ed calling for the Feds to put down the riots and speaking of civil order and all those things attacked in any insurrection? Will you dismiss one of our side’s best men over semantics? What exactly would you have him say? “These mostly peaceful protests were marred by a few, a very few and possibly fifth columnists at that, who co-opted the legitimate purposes of the mostly peaceful protestors. And while we of course deplore violence, it is important to remember that fascism is just an idea…” In short, would you have him mirror the Dems this summer? That was the OP’s point. It’s worth considering.
How will we distinguish these protestors from Antifa, in essence?
Â
Your argument over my word choice is noted. Lets go with demanding.
It does not change my position at all, it is ridiculously unlikely that this would have work and putting the final decision in the hands of current elected officials. That is not a revolution or the attempted overthrow of a government.
Well, for example, they could have behaved like literally every other person in the capital did. The event ended without anyone else getting shot. Or how about, “stop or I’ll shoot” first?
Normally I’d agree about not shooting unarmed people. There are exceptions though. Riot is one. Failure to restore respect order is another; the protesters have agency too and their actions count as escalation when it doesn’t have to escalate. Even then, there are other means short of guns – all effective at tamping down riot, all somewhat violent nonetheless.
I don’t think it’s just semantics.
I also think that the difference between 1/6/21 and antifa is apparent.
This seems like an intelligence failure by the Capitol Police.  There were rumors of potential trouble and Antifa and ProudBoys doing false flag events. When people started showing up dressed in black and wearing helmets and body armor, the police should have called in reinforcements. I heard a several calls from attendees saying this event was not other rallies. There were packs of young men armored up and walking around.
I think using lethal force is justified to protect politicians in their offices.  If someone is still skittish, remember that she was a trained killer.
Not arguing against violence to stop these things, nor even saying that shooting should never ever happen. Just that the bar should be pretty high, I don’t know that was met in this case. This lady deserved to be arrested not killed.Â
We distinguish these people from Antifa by the size of the U-Haul or model year of the Escalade they load the merchandise into.
This is crap. Police are held to same standard as civilians and we MUST be sure of the imminent danger of death or great bodily harm to be able to use deadly force. If you want to shoot down the crowd a declaration of martial law and a warning (“reading the riot act”) must be exercised before the guns open up.
Ms Mandel, it is the job of the police to know the law and every jurisdiction will be close if not exactly as stated above.
Â
There are no reports, decisions, etc. which explain the reasons/reasoning for rejecting the claims made at court(s) and legislatures. Are you saying SCOTUS is incapable of explaining why Texas has no standing to sue another state(s) when the Constitution directs it to do so. If Legislatures and courts had respect for their constituents (yes courts are political entities) and bothered to explain their reasons for rejecting appeals made it would have persuaded a good number of folks that perhaps there is a good reason for the judgement. Otherwise, it seems as though they are disciples of Lord North and his Parliament.
Agreed. Still, here is what Wordnik gave me for “Insurrection”:
Cotton is right on if we accept sense two and the beginning of sense three. Biden has already played the racism card, comparing the reaction to BLM and 1/6 and claiming a disparity that can only be due to race, blah blah. Cotton is a savvy politician who must operate in the world as it is.Â