On the Tearing Down of Statues

 

“Every statue of an old and all-too-human benefactor or hero that comes tumbling down is a memorial raised to our intolerance, our unwillingness to forgive. We find fault where there is fault to find, and we are glad to find it, because we have so little that is virtuous and beautiful to show on our own account.” – Anthony Esolen

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  1. TBA Coolidge
    TBA
    @RobtGilsdorf

    Ed G. (View Comment):

    I don’t think it’s about an unwillingness to forgive. It’s easy to conceptualize the extreme ends: statues few would object to removing (Stalin, Mao, Mussolini, etc) and statues few would clamor to have removed (Lincoln, MLK, etc). Having typed that I realize that we’ve seen the latter type on display over the last five years. Despite that, I think it’s still fringe – few are clamoring even though many may be blindly following the clamorers and many more still are indifferently refraining from objecting.

    I don’t like that the internet makes it so easy for people to clamor above their weight class. 

    • #31
  2. Jon1979 Inactive
    Jon1979
    @Jon1979

    DonG (Biden is compromised) (View Comment):

    Jon1979 (View Comment):
    People with that mindset see Robert E. Lee only as the appetizer to the main course of total demonization of American history. Which is why taking down statues — or allying with people zealous in their desire to take down statues — should be done only with great caution and with eyes wide open on who you’re partnering with in the effort.

    You have to decide what you want to fight for. I claim we should fight for statues that support our founding lore and ideals. If you want to fight over every rock put up by a sore-loosing Southerner, than that is unprincipled and a loosing position. Defending those rocks is just a reaction to a force and not based on a defensible principle. We need to be putting up more statues of the founding fathers!

    The problem in the current political climate though is the same people who are the most emphatic about tearing down the Confederate statues are also the ones who would like to follow that up by tearing down the statues of the Founding Fathers. That’s why extra caution has to be taken when engaging in Civil War cancel culture — you might be able to justify renaming a military base that carries the name of an unsuccessful Confederate general merely because of location 100-plus years ago, but lots of folks who would go along with that wouldn’t simply stop there, as the above noted instances with Lincoln in both Boston and San Francisco indicate (those people are proving Trump right when he said call to remove the Confederate statues wouldn’t simply stop at removing the Confederate statues).

    • #32
  3. TBA Coolidge
    TBA
    @RobtGilsdorf

    Jon1979 (View Comment):

    DonG (Biden is compromised) (View Comment):

    Jon1979 (View Comment):
    People with that mindset see Robert E. Lee only as the appetizer to the main course of total demonization of American history. Which is why taking down statues — or allying with people zealous in their desire to take down statues — should be done only with great caution and with eyes wide open on who you’re partnering with in the effort.

    You have to decide what you want to fight for. I claim we should fight for statues that support our founding lore and ideals. If you want to fight over every rock put up by a sore-loosing Southerner, than that is unprincipled and a loosing position. Defending those rocks is just a reaction to a force and not based on a defensible principle. We need to be putting up more statues of the founding fathers!

    The problem in the current political climate though is the same people who are the most emphatic about tearing down the Confederate statues are also the ones who would like to follow that up by tearing down the statues of the Founding Fathers. That’s why extra caution has to be taken when engaging in Civil War cancel culture — you might be able to justify renaming a military base that carries the name of an unsuccessful Confederate general merely because of location 100-plus years ago, but lots of folks who would go along with that wouldn’t simply stop there, as the above noted instances with Lincoln in both Boston and San Francisco indicate (those people are proving Trump right when he said call to remove the Confederate statues wouldn’t simply stop at removing the Confederate statues).

    One dead white male statue is much like another. 

    • #33
  4. Stad Coolidge
    Stad
    @Stad

    Jules PA (View Comment):
    I think that was the goal of the statue snatchers. Reset history.

    Exactly.  I wonder how the supporters of tearing down Confederate statues feel about the left’s sights now on other statues like Lincoln, Washington, Jefferson, Columbus, the Virgin Mary, even Jesus.  The “slippery slope” argument is a valid one in many cases . . .

    • #34
  5. Flicker Coolidge
    Flicker
    @Flicker

    Stad (View Comment):

    Jules PA (View Comment):
    I think that was the goal of the statue snatchers. Reset history.

    Exactly. I wonder how the supporters of tearing down Confederate statues feel about the left’s sights now on other statues like Limncoln, Washington, Jefferson, Columbus, the Virgin Mary, even Jesus. The “slippery slope” argument is a valid one in many cases . . .

    I remember once a friend conversing with me about some social issue and I said, in effect, but if they want this now, they’ll want this other thing next.  And he objected that that’s a slippery slope argument and therefore invalid.  Well, I was right about what they wanted next, but his use of the slippery slope argument ignores intended incremental changes that would be objected to if forced all at once.

    • #35
  6. Doctor Robert Member
    Doctor Robert
    @DoctorRobert

    Flicker (View Comment):

    Stad (View Comment):

    Jules PA (View Comment):
    I think that was the goal of the statue snatchers. Reset history.

    Exactly. I wonder how the supporters of tearing down Confederate statues feel about the left’s sights now on other statues like Limncoln, Washington, Jefferson, Columbus, the Virgin Mary, even Jesus. The “slippery slope” argument is a valid one in many cases . . .

    I remember once a friend conversing with me about some social issue and I said, in effect, but if they want this now, they’ll want this other thing next. And he objected that that’s a slippery slope argument and therefore invalid. Well, I was right about what they wanted next, but his use of the slippery slope argument ignores intended incremental changes that would be objected to if forced all at once.

    Your friend’s dismissal of the Slippery Slope argument shows his rhetorical prowess, not any weakness of your point of view on the social issue.  There is no social issue in which the left has failed to use a slippery slope approach successfully.  Like Gay Marriage?   Like Abortion?  Like Mail In Balloting?  

    • #36
  7. TBA Coolidge
    TBA
    @RobtGilsdorf

    Doctor Robert (View Comment):

    Flicker (View Comment):

    Stad (View Comment):

    Jules PA (View Comment):
    I think that was the goal of the statue snatchers. Reset history.

    Exactly. I wonder how the supporters of tearing down Confederate statues feel about the left’s sights now on other statues like Limncoln, Washington, Jefferson, Columbus, the Virgin Mary, even Jesus. The “slippery slope” argument is a valid one in many cases . . .

    I remember once a friend conversing with me about some social issue and I said, in effect, but if they want this now, they’ll want this other thing next. And he objected that that’s a slippery slope argument and therefore invalid. Well, I was right about what they wanted next, but his use of the slippery slope argument ignores intended incremental changes that would be objected to if forced all at once.

    Your friend’s dismissal of the Slippery Slope argument shows his rhetorical prowess, not any weakness of your point of view on the social issue. There is no social issue in which the left has failed to use a slippery slope approach successfully. Like Gay Marriage? Like Abortion? Like Mail In Balloting?

    I propose new rules such that two data points indicates a Forced March which completely negates the Slippery Slope objection. 

    • #37
  8. Stad Coolidge
    Stad
    @Stad

    Flicker (View Comment):
    And he objected that that’s a slippery slope argument and therefore invalid.

    I’ve heard too often “The slippery slope argument is a fallacy.”  Say what?  I believe it’s much more often true than false . . .

    • #38
  9. kedavis Coolidge
    kedavis
    @kedavis

    Stad (View Comment):

    Flicker (View Comment):
    And he objected that that’s a slippery slope argument and therefore invalid.

    I’ve heard too often “The slippery slope argument is a fallacy.” Say what? I believe it’s much more often true than false . . .

    As is often the case, what is deemed to be “fallacy” in “pure logic” can be quite true in the real world.

    • #39
  10. Jules PA Inactive
    Jules PA
    @JulesPA

    Slippery Slope should be renamed The Thomas Sowell “And Then What” March.

    • #40
  11. Fake John/Jane Galt Coolidge
    Fake John/Jane Galt
    @FakeJohnJaneGalt

    I am done with the statue fight.  Same with the naming stuff.  But I do not like the double standard.  So in fairness to all I want ALL statues to be torn down.  Not a one should stand.  If it can be tore down because if offends somebody then it should be tore down because it offends me.  As for schools.  Let’s take away their names and just give them numbers.  They want to tear down America, fine, I want to help.  Lets burn this land to the ground and salt the earth afterward.   

    • #41
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