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The Talk
Many television shows have recently portrayed versions of “The Talk,” This Is Us being the most recent of which I am aware. I gather The Talk is a coming of age moment in the life of every Black child where there is communicated the manner in which one is to acquit oneself when pulled over by a police officer. I have some sincere questions about this practice.
Question 1:
Portrayals on TV are always presented in the context of Ferguson, Rayshard Brooks, George Floyd, etc. Just off the top of my head: Ferguson (amped up criminal thug fresh from committing assault, battery and robbery attacked a police officer and endeavored to take the officer’s gun and use it to murder the officer), Rayshard Brooks (approached for operating a vehicle under the influence, attacked two police officers while resisting arrest, stole a Taser from one of the officers and fired it as the officer while fleeing), and Mr. Floyd (approached by officers after “balling” – injecting a mixture of cocaine and fentanyl anally – and passing counterfeit bills, resisting arrest and dying from the effects of the fentanyl as his lungs were filled with liquid. It must be noted that the officers twice requested an ambulance to tend to Mr. Floyd’s condition).
So how does The Talk approach this? Maybe an admonition to not disarm police officers or attempt to take their weapons from them? Followed by the common-sense observation that, if you should ever successfully acquire an officer’s weapon, don’t attempt to murder the officer? Concluding with, and don’t inject cocaine and fentanyl up your derriere – or anywhere else for that matter? Seriously? There is a need for such a talk?
Question 2:
What is it about Black culture that we are to believe necessitates such warnings? I admittedly come from a predominantly White background. No member of my family ever felt the need to explain the advantages, indeed the necessity, of not attempting to disarm and murder police officers. For that matter, I was never specifically told to avoid robbing stores and driving drunk. I feel that was rather understood. As for the anal injection of fentanyl, again, never really came up.
What am I to make of these more in sorrow than in anger – though there are copious amounts of anger – depictions of this ritual? They seem to say very little about law enforcement and quite a bit about Black culture — none of it good. In what universe are we to believe that an entire race of children needs to be made specifically aware of the seemingly immutable law of the jungle out there that precludes attacking police officers who are simply doing their jobs – to say nothing of balling?
In all seriousness, how is it allowable to portray Black children as lacking in remedial common sense?
I am particularly interested in hearing from anyone who identifies as Black if “The Talk” is a real thing or a media invention. And if it is real, is it the case that Black children really are uniquely unaware of the necessity to not attempt to kill police officers? Or to not engage in the predicate criminality that puts one in contact with police officers?
Do such talks ever point out the consistently professional and compassionate actions of all officers involved in all of these instances? It might be nice to leave our children with a healthy appreciation of law enforcement.
Lastly, I have noted that reference to The Talk is almost always in the context of an understanding that White Americans should feel guilty that such a talk is necessary. If I ever actually felt the need to have such a talk with either of my boys, both of whom I have raised, I would expect no one to feel guilty. But someone would feel greatly embarrassed: me.
Published in General
Or maybe they are just geographically dispersed.
Your first problem is that you are watching TV. The second is that you think TV somehow portrays reality and not subversive propaganda.
I have no idea how many people, regardless of their skin color have “the talk” with their children. There is an informational essay on the Portland Police Bureau website about traffic stops.
Arguing, yelling, or swearing can be seen as the prelude to a fight or flee action.
Click on the link for the full essay.
What happened to “put on a show of studliness for your homies on the passenger side and in the back seat?”
That means a citation. Remember, it’s much easier to talk your way into a citation than to talk your way out of a citation. Some learning experiences come with a tuition fee.
I think the first time I ever had any interaction with a police officer was at about 2 AM one night (at age 26) when I rolled through a stop sign on a rural road with no other private cars probably within 2 miles. I was on my way home from my girlfriend’s apartment (we’ve now been married for 43 years).
The talk:
“Do you know why I stopped you?”
“Yeah, I rolled through the stop sign.”
“Here’s a warning.”
“Thanks, officer.”
In a libertarian house, The Talk is different.
* the police are the militarized arm of tyrannical city councils
* any ill-will from the encounter should be directed to politicians and their policies
* the police deal with criminals and citizens, your behavior tells the cop which one you are
* disputes are done exclusively in the court
* if asked, do not consent to a search
Not just a citation. A RACIST citation!
Obviously.
sigh.
Yeah. My snow white kids got the talk too.
Be polite. keep your hands on the wheel.
Do what the officer tells you.
My kids also knew that as an ER doc I personally knew every cop in the area…..
Trying to understand the difference, I will acknowledge that I always lived in middle class neighborhoods, sometimes with police officers as neighbors. My father was on the volunteer fire department that shared a building with the police department, so I saw police officers as normal people. I can imagine that my views might be different if I had grown up in a neighborhood in which my neighbors were frequently getting arrested.
Especially if their friends and relatives were (falsely) claiming that the people arrested didn’t really do anything wrong.
FIFY.
For sure policing 43 years ago was a lot different. That was almost when Adam-12 was on.
I thought about writing it that way but decided not to bother. Either way the point was made.
After being pulled over for going 65 in a 55 zone:
Officer: “Why were you going so fast”.
Me: “I guess I just had my head up my ass.”
A few minutes later, after he went back to his car and radioed in my information:
Me: “I haven’t gotten a ticket in 12 years.”
Officer: “Well you’re not getting one today either. Here’s your warning. Sign here.”
“Police officers are gentle donutiverous mammals that roam freely throughout urban and sub-urban America. Due to the constant threat of predatory lawyers and other criminals, police officers are easily startled. When frightened they release a noxious cloud of lead, which is simply nature’s way of saying, “you shouldn’ta gone and done that.”
My dad’s advice was “never argue with a man carrying a nightstick.” A man given to elliptical epigrams, he figured I could fill in the the polite part.
@kedavis, John Derbyshire is my hero.
I wish instead of just firing him, NRO (or whoever) would have had a conversation with him about his article. Figure out where and how he was wrong, where he was right. There wasn’t animus in the man, just analysis.
But no. People famously keep saying we need to have a serious talk about race. It seemed to me that he was starting a serious, statistically-based, non emotional look at the current situation. Nobody really wanted to talk.
And they don’t now.
Reading the replies, I’m reminded of a lady I worked with in Pittsburgh, PA. Caucasian lady, divorced, with two biracial children. Although a Democrat, she was a a practical Democrat, owning an upstairs handgun and a downstairs handgun due to her tough-ish neighborhood. I met her when the kids were early 20’s.
When her son was either back on leave from the Army or just separated to go to college on the GI Bill (he ended up a Big Six accountant I believe), they happened to be out in separate cars and were going to return home in a little caravan. She told me that at that point he shocked her, warning her not to be upset but that there was the chance he would be pulled over as they drove home – it happened all the time in that area of the Burgh which was close to a ritzy part of town. And he was.
Given they were “together”, she stopped and hopped out to ask the officer why her son was pulled over (probably not a wise move even in the 90’s). She said he danced around a bit, mentioning something about his driving or the car’s lights or registration but quickly said that all was well and her son could go. Her son later said he had been stopped very frequently over the years, but never wanted to upset his mom.
Now is it reasonable that police wouldn’t recognize the kid and keep pulling him over? Maybe. Or perhaps he was a little more shady than mom let on? Who knows? Regardless, it was surprising to hear a first person example of “same planet, different worlds”. And the reality of that world was that in that part of town crimes were not being committed by short, middle aged white ladies but by young black males, so the police were going to be pulling over lots young black males because it made sense. So it makes sense to have the talk – using lots of Chris Rock’s points from above.
The zeroth Amendment to the Constitution states that if you are a POC you don’t have to submit to the police.
Small town is great. A friend pulled my daughter years ago to tell her a light was out. He then came to the school where I was teaching ESL that night to tell me in case she forgot.
He was on several NR cruises. He is nice, serious, and quite funny. I miss him.
And that is why the police officer must make up something reasonable as ‘probable cause’ because otherwise what can it be called?
I don’t know that he was actually wrong about any of it. And much of it was based on personal experience/opinion, so it’s not valid for someone else to come along and claim “You didn’t experience that!”
As a formerly resentful, defiant, and in all other respects thoroughly unpleasant teenager I reflect and wonder about the influence of culturally promoted resentment and defiance. If I were a parent of a black teenager today I would be very worried about what seems to an unrelenting message from schools and major media that my son or daughter have reason to be angry (except at the aforementioned panderers of course). Add the shame and peer influence components so prevalent in teen world that even kids from decent homes may more likely perceive threats where little or none actually exists.
So I have some sense that this “talk” is probably a good idea for parents who are living in those parts of the country where their kids are more vulnerable. The problem is that the people talking the most about “systemic racism” are mostly the same people doing the most to promote overtly racist policies, lessons, etc. Their growing influence increases the risk of kids acting out and consequently the need for parents to have these kind of talks.
And the parents are likely still voting for more of the same, too.
You beat me to it, Boss.
Maybe? People often personalize stories that happen to other people; a rumor becomes something that happened to someone you know, and later on may be remembered as something that happened to you. Police are almost always dispassionate and they rarely smile when they interact with people; this can easily be read as ill will which may be inflated to contempt or hatred with no change in circumstances.
Black people are – statistically – rougher on cops than white people or Asians. Do cops reply in kind, or are they just responding evenhandedly to more threat, irrationality, and lawlessness? I distrust our ability to generate meaningful data from thousands upon thousands of very personal interactions.
But….the BLM women claim they “WON.” Exactly what, other than more tension, is not at all clear.
https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-55106268
When I grew up my suburb was an independent municipality with its own police force. As kids, we loved our police, in large part because we could compare them to the much-less-tolerant and nepotism-plagued police service of the urban city of which we were a suburb. Our police were friendly. Our police hung out in the school once a week to answer questions about the law, without any judgement. Our police wore blue instead of black. Our police gave tours of the police station, including the cells and the gun range. Even when we were busted doing something stupid, our police understood that we were merely being stupid rather than actually being malicious. When our police broke up a “rumble” they often knew the ringleaders by name and could interact when them on that level. We feared our parents more than we feared our police, and our police used that fear to their advantage (“Take me to jail, just don’t tell my dad!”).
Then our suburban municipality was annexed by our big urban neighbour and we lost our police force. Now the police just totally suck.
(Of course, members of the urban police force took on greater personal risk than did members of our suburban police force, which obviously has an effect on how they approach interactions with the citizenry, and we did understand that fact, but that’s just all more reason why police jurisdictions should be socio-geographically delimited from each other.)