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The Talk
Many television shows have recently portrayed versions of “The Talk,” This Is Us being the most recent of which I am aware. I gather The Talk is a coming of age moment in the life of every Black child where there is communicated the manner in which one is to acquit oneself when pulled over by a police officer. I have some sincere questions about this practice.
Question 1:
Portrayals on TV are always presented in the context of Ferguson, Rayshard Brooks, George Floyd, etc. Just off the top of my head: Ferguson (amped up criminal thug fresh from committing assault, battery and robbery attacked a police officer and endeavored to take the officer’s gun and use it to murder the officer), Rayshard Brooks (approached for operating a vehicle under the influence, attacked two police officers while resisting arrest, stole a Taser from one of the officers and fired it as the officer while fleeing), and Mr. Floyd (approached by officers after “balling” – injecting a mixture of cocaine and fentanyl anally – and passing counterfeit bills, resisting arrest and dying from the effects of the fentanyl as his lungs were filled with liquid. It must be noted that the officers twice requested an ambulance to tend to Mr. Floyd’s condition).
So how does The Talk approach this? Maybe an admonition to not disarm police officers or attempt to take their weapons from them? Followed by the common-sense observation that, if you should ever successfully acquire an officer’s weapon, don’t attempt to murder the officer? Concluding with, and don’t inject cocaine and fentanyl up your derriere – or anywhere else for that matter? Seriously? There is a need for such a talk?
Question 2:
What is it about Black culture that we are to believe necessitates such warnings? I admittedly come from a predominantly White background. No member of my family ever felt the need to explain the advantages, indeed the necessity, of not attempting to disarm and murder police officers. For that matter, I was never specifically told to avoid robbing stores and driving drunk. I feel that was rather understood. As for the anal injection of fentanyl, again, never really came up.
What am I to make of these more in sorrow than in anger – though there are copious amounts of anger – depictions of this ritual? They seem to say very little about law enforcement and quite a bit about Black culture — none of it good. In what universe are we to believe that an entire race of children needs to be made specifically aware of the seemingly immutable law of the jungle out there that precludes attacking police officers who are simply doing their jobs – to say nothing of balling?
In all seriousness, how is it allowable to portray Black children as lacking in remedial common sense?
I am particularly interested in hearing from anyone who identifies as Black if “The Talk” is a real thing or a media invention. And if it is real, is it the case that Black children really are uniquely unaware of the necessity to not attempt to kill police officers? Or to not engage in the predicate criminality that puts one in contact with police officers?
Do such talks ever point out the consistently professional and compassionate actions of all officers involved in all of these instances? It might be nice to leave our children with a healthy appreciation of law enforcement.
Lastly, I have noted that reference to The Talk is almost always in the context of an understanding that White Americans should feel guilty that such a talk is necessary. If I ever actually felt the need to have such a talk with either of my boys, both of whom I have raised, I would expect no one to feel guilty. But someone would feel greatly embarrassed: me.
Published in General
That reminds me of this article by John Derbyshire, which may have had something to do with his previous career difficulties:
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I wonder the same thing. I was certainly taught to that if you’re pulled over, you keep your hands where the officer can see them and you don’t do any weird or sudden movements. I guess I thought that was a universal thing.
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My only issue with “the talk” is the implied presumption that white parents don’t teach their kids how to behave when interacting with police.
It seems to me that “how to behave when pulled over and/or questioned by police” is something everybody needs to be taught, since it seems like so very many people keep screwing it up.
Yes, this is what I meant above. Doesn’t everyone sort of get this “talk”? Not necessarily in a formalized way, but . . . isn’t this just something you teach kids when you’re teaching them to drive?
Many black parents don’t seem to care much about what their kids do in regular school, so maybe it’s not surprising that the kids don’t learn much about driving either.
You say that as if you think I read through the comments before posting, and that’s just silly.
I have to admit my parents never told me not to try to murder a police officer if I got pulled over. However, I’m fairly confident that they told me to be polite.
Refraining from attempting murder is the epitome of proper etiquette.
Of course, there are two major versions of the talk. The one you are referencing about specifics in interaction with the police is a specific component of the generic teaching by most families black or white on how to behave in interactions with those in authority. This subject version of the talk is taught specifically to black children as a result of two unrelated elements that cause a greater percentage of potentially troublesome interactions between police and black youth than with others. Those two things are: the crime rate among blacks and remnants of racial discrimination experienced in society by today’s blacks. One other contributing factor with specifically police authority would be an over-exuberant use of authority by some police officers. All of these area are in need of attention and reform and success with those might leave us needing only the teaching of respect for those in authority, not to be overdone, of course.
I appreciate your thoughts. I can’t speak to actual remnants of racial discrimination. I suspect if such remnants were real, the media wouldn’t need to highlight manufactured Smollett-like stories. A favorite instance of mine is described here: https://patriotpost.us/opinion/71674-great-moments-in-racism-the-dashcam-tapes-2020-06-25
As always, the president of my dear alma mater, Mr. Eisgruber, chimed in to proclaim this unfortunate incident to be all too common. In fact, what was all too common was the gullibility of people to believe that there are such remnants of racial discrimination.
As for over-exuberance amongst police officers, I suspect this applies to small town White suspects as much as it applies to big city Black suspects. I have no reason to believe there is a racial component.
I have no empirical evidence on which to base an opinion on the specific issue of “the talk.”
I have little personal interaction with black people. I live in Pima County, Arizona, where the black population is around 3-4%. I tend to live and work in the better areas, so the black proportion is even smaller. I know 3 black guys at my church. They are all great guys, and are all married to white women.
I have the impression that there is a shockingly dysfunctional inner-city black culture in some places, with which I have essentially no experience. My impression is that large number of people in such areas behave like pagan savages. I do not know the proportion of the total American black population that lives in such areas.
There are empirical facts suggesting that the behavior of many black people is horrid. An estimated 33% of adult black men have a felony conviction. About 75% of black children are illegitimate. The black homicide rate is around 6-8 times the white rate, I think (though I haven’t looked into this precise figure lately). Black test performance and academic performance is quite poor overall.
Obviously, not all black Americans engage in such behaviors. The 3 guys that I know at church — and yes, I know them by name — do not behave in such ways.
There are plenty of pagan savages among the white population, too, though the percentage appears to be quite a bit lower. There’s something else different, though — we generally don’t have a problem criticizing such people as “white trash.” It is tragic, but that is the way that they seem to act.
The problem in America is not that black fathers have to have “the talk” with their children. The problem in America is that there are not enough black fathers around to have any kind of talk with their children. (And that is an increasing problem in the white communities as well.)
I suspect that many if not most Black parents care desperately that their children are safe and desire to impart knowledge that will serve them well. Same as White parents. I just can’t get my head around the suggestion that Black children are so uniquely lacking in such knowledge. More to the point, I find it troubling that the media is presenting this deficiency as a fact to be unquestioningly accepted. I would love someone to tell me that the Talk is a PR canard of the left and not a reflection of reality.
I suspect that the Talk in an invention to serve other purposes. If it were real – or at least actually put forward for the reasons stated – I would expect to see public service announcements where well known and respected figures urge kids (all kids) to refrain when pulled over from attempting to kill the police officers. Simple as that.
Even if it is just a canard of the left, it’s filtered down to the point where if parents haven’t had the talk with their children, they believe they need to.
I see this in my white friends who have adopted black children. They also have variations on “the talk” with them. And this bothers me, because it seems to send the message that there’s a problem with their kids’ skin color. But then I don’t know what it is to be a parent of black children and/or worry about their safety, so I really should just withhold comment.
I don’t think there is an abundance of Smollett-like violent remnants of discrimination out there. I think when the racial discrimination does occur, it is subtle and maybe even not committed consciously but those on the receiving end are sensitive to it.
In the case of the over-exuberant police officers, they are who are most aware of the criminal statistics so they are quicker to respond to any aggressive acts by blacks.
Same here. I got it again when I was in college with the admonition that “We know you think you know everything and since you took that class in Constitutional Law feel particularly knowledgeable about your rights. If you get pulled over my the police DO NOT get snarky about probable cause and whatnot. It’s still Yes Sir and No Sir and hands in plain sight. If you really think your rights were violated, you can call an attorney after you get home.”
If ” the talk” is such a thing, why are so many resisting arrest, rude to cops, running from cops, and shooting cops?
It wasn’t when I was a kid or when my own kids were learning to drive, but I think part of driver’s education should be a thorough discussion of what to do when stopped by the police, even for pedestrians. It should also be part of the students’ health classes.
Over the last few years, I’ve read a lot of articles about police-citizen encounters that have ended badly, and I’ve been surprised at the police officers’ expectations for those encounters. I grew up in a very small town, and the police officers were friendly and not at all intimidating in any way.
I think the expectations of the police officers should be part of a teenager’s education. I think it needs to be handled at school because a lot of parents haven’t kept up with the rules and expectations.
I don’t disagree. Though, again, I wonder from whence comes the belief that Black children if confronted with a multiple choice question –
When pulled over by a police officer, one should:
a. Attempt to disarm the officer and kill him.
b. Resist arrest and fire a Taser at the officer.
c. All of the above.
d. None of the above.
– would not see “d” as the best option. I simply don’t feel that my “Whiteness” imparts any special insight here. It just seems rather obvious.
Funny thing. I don’t remember my folks ever telling me how to act if I got pulled over by the police. I’m not sure if that’s because they couldn’t imagine their angel of a daughter ever being pulled over (wrong) or because I was a little blond woman. H.m.m.m…
My father taught me to be deferential to police.
White.
From 2000 until 2018 I worked in a northern U.S. city with a large poor black population. I was appalled to hear from people who worked with kids in the city how little knowledge was passed from parents (or other family members) to the kids. A disturbingly large portion of parents were either absent or completely disengaged from what their kids were doing. An example is that many teachers reported that not a single parent from any of their classes would attend school parent events. A work skills program had to teach teens how (And why) to use an alarm clock because getting anywhere on time was an unknown concept in their families.
Sounds to me like Patriot Post is a site worth supporting by Ricochet members.
There is no lack of fathers making babies, but they aren’t around much after that.