Recommended by Ricochet Members Created with Sketch. The Talk

 

Many television shows have recently portrayed versions of “The Talk,” This Is Us being the most recent of which I am aware. I gather The Talk is a coming of age moment in the life of every Black child where there is communicated the manner in which one is to acquit oneself when pulled over by a police officer. I have some sincere questions about this practice.

Question 1:

Portrayals on TV are always presented in the context of Ferguson, Rayshard Brooks, George Floyd, etc. Just off the top of my head: Ferguson (amped up criminal thug fresh from committing assault, battery and robbery attacked a police officer and endeavored to take the officer’s gun and use it to murder the officer), Rayshard Brooks (approached for operating a vehicle under the influence, attacked two police officers while resisting arrest, stole a Taser from one of the officers and fired it as the officer while fleeing), and Mr. Floyd (approached by officers after “balling” – injecting a mixture of cocaine and fentanyl anally – and passing counterfeit bills, resisting arrest and dying from the effects of the fentanyl as his lungs were filled with liquid. It must be noted that the officers twice requested an ambulance to tend to Mr. Floyd’s condition).

So how does The Talk approach this? Maybe an admonition to not disarm police officers or attempt to take their weapons from them? Followed by the common-sense observation that, if you should ever successfully acquire an officer’s weapon, don’t attempt to murder the officer? Concluding with, and don’t inject cocaine and fentanyl up your derriere – or anywhere else for that matter? Seriously? There is a need for such a talk?

Question 2:

What is it about Black culture that we are to believe necessitates such warnings? I admittedly come from a predominantly White background. No member of my family ever felt the need to explain the advantages, indeed the necessity, of not attempting to disarm and murder police officers. For that matter, I was never specifically told to avoid robbing stores and driving drunk. I feel that was rather understood. As for the anal injection of fentanyl, again, never really came up.

What am I to make of these more in sorrow than in anger – though there are copious amounts of anger – depictions of this ritual? They seem to say very little about law enforcement and quite a bit about Black culture — none of it good. In what universe are we to believe that an entire race of children needs to be made specifically aware of the seemingly immutable law of the jungle out there that precludes attacking police officers who are simply doing their jobs – to say nothing of balling?

In all seriousness, how is it allowable to portray Black children as lacking in remedial common sense?

I am particularly interested in hearing from anyone who identifies as Black if “The Talk” is a real thing or a media invention. And if it is real, is it the case that Black children really are uniquely unaware of the necessity to not attempt to kill police officers? Or to not engage in the predicate criminality that puts one in contact with police officers?

Do such talks ever point out the consistently professional and compassionate actions of all officers involved in all of these instances? It might be nice to leave our children with a healthy appreciation of law enforcement.

Lastly, I have noted that reference to The Talk is almost always in the context of an understanding that White Americans should feel guilty that such a talk is necessary. If I ever actually felt the need to have such a talk with either of my boys, both of whom I have raised, I would expect no one to feel guilty. But someone would feel greatly embarrassed: me.

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  1. kedavis Member

    That reminds me of this article by John Derbyshire, which may have had something to do with his previous career difficulties:

     

    Racial Politics

    The Talk: Nonblack Version

    by John Derbyshire

    April 05, 2012

    <!–Share–> 

    The Talk: Nonblack Version

    There is much talk about “the talk.”

    “Sean O’Reilly was 16 when his mother gave him the talk that most black parents give their teenage sons,” Denisa R. Superville of the Hackensack (NJ) Record tells us. Meanwhile, down in Atlanta: “Her sons were 12 and 8 when Marlyn Tillman realized it was time for her to have the talk,” Gracie Bonds Staples writes in the Fort Worth Star-Telegram.

    Leonard Greene talks about the talk in the New York Post. Someone bylined as KJ Dell’Antonia talks about the talk in The New York Times. Darryl Owens talks about the talk in the Orlando Sentinel.

    Yes, talk about the talk is all over.

    There is a talk that nonblack Americans have with their kids, too. My own kids, now 19 and 16, have had it in bits and pieces as subtopics have arisen. If I were to assemble it into a single talk, it would look something like the following.

    * * * * * * * * * * * * *

    (1) Among your fellow citizens are forty million who identify as black, and whom I shall refer to as black. The cumbersome (and MLK-noncompliant) term “African-American” seems to be in decline, thank goodness. “Colored” and “Negro” are archaisms. What you must call “the ‘N’ word” is used freely among blacks but is taboo to nonblacks.

    “There is a talk that nonblack Americans have with their kids, too.”

    (2) American blacks are descended from West African populations, with some white and aboriginal-American admixture. The overall average of non-African admixture is 20-25 percent. The admixture distribution is nonlinear, though: “It seems that around 10 percent of the African American population is more than half European in ancestry.” (Same link.)

    (3) Your own ancestry is mixed north-European and northeast-Asian, but blacks will take you to be white.

    (4) The default principle in everyday personal encounters is, that as a fellow citizen, with the same rights and obligations as yourself, any individual black is entitled to the same courtesies you would extend to a nonblack citizen. That is basic good manners and good citizenship. In some unusual circumstances, however—e.g., paragraph (10h) below—this default principle should be overridden by considerations of personal safety.

    continues…

    • #1
    • November 30, 2020, at 11:14 AM PST
    • 4 likes
  2. DrewInEastHillQuarantineZone Coolidge

    Jack Mantle: What is it about Black culture that we are to believe necessitates such warnings? I admittedly come from a predominantly White background. No member of my family ever felt the need to explain the advantages, indeed the necessity, of not attempting to disarm and murder police officers. For that matter, I was never specifically told to avoid robbing stores and driving drunk. I feel that was rather understood. As for the anal injection of fentanyl, again, never really came up.

    I wonder the same thing. I was certainly taught to that if you’re pulled over, you keep your hands where the officer can see them and you don’t do any weird or sudden movements. I guess I thought that was a universal thing.

     

    • #2
    • November 30, 2020, at 11:15 AM PST
    • 15 likes
  3. kedavis Member

    (5) As with any population of such a size, there is great variation among blacks in every human trait (except, obviously, the trait of identifying oneself as black). They come fat, thin, tall, short, dumb, smart, introverted, extroverted, honest, crooked, athletic, sedentary, fastidious, sloppy, amiable, and obnoxious. There are black geniuses and black morons. There are black saints and black psychopaths. In a population of forty million, you will find almost any human type. Only at the far, far extremes of certain traits are there absences. There are, for example, no black Fields Medal winners. While this is civilizationally consequential, it will not likely ever be important to you personally. Most people live and die without ever meeting (or wishing to meet) a Fields Medal winner.

    (6) As you go through life, however, you will experience an ever larger number of encounters with black Americans. Assuming your encounters are random—for example, not restricted only to black convicted murderers or to black investment bankers—the Law of Large Numbers will inevitably kick in. You will observe that the means—the averages—of many traits are very different for black and white Americans, as has been confirmed by methodical inquiries in the human sciences.

    (7) Of most importance to your personal safety are the very different means for antisocial behavior, which you will see reflected in, for instance, school disciplinary measures, political corruption, and criminal convictions.

    (8) These differences are magnified by the hostility many blacks feel toward whites. Thus, while black-on-black behavior is more antisocial in the average than is white-on-white behavior, average black-on-white behavior is a degree more antisocial yet.

    (9) A small cohort of blacks—in my experience, around five percent—is ferociously hostile to whites and will go to great lengths to inconvenience or harm us. A much larger cohort of blacks—around half—will go along passively if the five percent take leadership in some event. They will do this out of racial solidarity, the natural willingness of most human beings to be led, and a vague feeling that whites have it coming.

    (10) Thus, while always attentive to the particular qualities of individuals, on the many occasions where you have nothing to guide you but knowledge of those mean differences, use statistical common sense:

    (10a) Avoid concentrations of blacks not all known to you personally.

    (10b) Stay out of heavily black neighborhoods.

    (10c) If planning a trip to a beach or amusement park at some date, find out whether it is likely to be swamped with blacks on that date (neglect of that one got me the closest I have ever gotten to death by gunshot).

     

    (10d) Do not attend events likely to draw a lot of blacks.

    (10e) If you are at some public event at which the number of blacks suddenly swells, leave as quickly as possible.

    (10f) Do not settle in a district or municipality run by black politicians.

    continues…

    • #3
    • November 30, 2020, at 11:16 AM PST
    • 4 likes
  4. kedavis Member

    (10g) Before voting for a black politician, scrutinize his/her character much more carefully than you would a white.

    (10h) Do not act the Good Samaritan to blacks in apparent distress, e.g., on the highway.

    (10i) If accosted by a strange black in the street, smile and say something polite but keep moving.

     

    (11) The mean intelligence of blacks is much lower than for whites. The least intelligent ten percent of whites have IQs below 81; forty percent of blacks have IQs that low. Only one black in six is more intelligent than the average white; five whites out of six are more intelligent than the average black. These differences show in every test of general cognitive ability that anyone, of any race or nationality, has yet been able to devise. They are reflected in countless everyday situations. “Life is an IQ test.”

    (12) There is a magnifying effect here, too, caused by affirmative action. In a pure meritocracy there would be very low proportions of blacks in cognitively demanding jobs. Because of affirmative action, the proportions are higher. In government work, they are very high. Thus, in those encounters with strangers that involve cognitive engagement, ceteris paribus the black stranger will be less intelligent than the white. In such encounters, therefore—for example, at a government office—you will, on average, be dealt with more competently by a white than by a black. If that hostility-based magnifying effect (paragraph 8) is also in play, you will be dealt with more politely, too. “The DMV lady“ is a statistical truth, not a myth.

    (13) In that pool of forty million, there are nonetheless many intelligent and well-socialized blacks. (I’ll use IWSB as an ad hoc abbreviation.) You should consciously seek opportunities to make friends with IWSBs. In addition to the ordinary pleasures of friendship, you will gain an amulet against potentially career-destroying accusations of prejudice.

    (14) Be aware, however, that there is an issue of supply and demand here. Demand comes from organizations and businesses keen to display racial propriety by employing IWSBs, especially in positions at the interface with the general public—corporate sales reps, TV news presenters, press officers for government agencies, etc.—with corresponding depletion in less visible positions. There is also strong private demand from middle- and upper-class whites for personal bonds with IWSBs, for reasons given in the previous paragraph and also (next paragraph) as status markers.

    (15) Unfortunately the demand is greater than the supply, so IWSBs are something of a luxury good, like antique furniture or corporate jets: boasted of by upper-class whites and wealthy organizations, coveted by the less prosperous. To be an IWSB in present-day US society is a height of felicity rarely before attained by any group of human beings in history. Try to curb your envy: it will be taken as prejudice (see paragraph 13).

    * * * * * * * * * * * * *

    continues…

     

    • #4
    • November 30, 2020, at 11:17 AM PST
    • 2 likes
  5. kedavis Member

    You don’t have to follow my version of the talk point for point; but if you are white or Asian and have kids, you owe it to them to give them some version of the talk. It will save them a lot of time and trouble spent figuring things out for themselves. It may save their lives.

    • #5
    • November 30, 2020, at 11:17 AM PST
    • 8 likes
  6. Misthiocracy got drunk and Member
    Misthiocracy got drunk andJoined in the first year of Ricochet Ricochet Charter Member

    My only issue with “the talk” is the implied presumption that white parents don’t teach their kids how to behave when interacting with police.

    It seems to me that “how to behave when pulled over and/or questioned by police” is something everybody needs to be taught, since it seems like so very many people keep screwing it up.

    • #6
    • November 30, 2020, at 11:21 AM PST
    • 17 likes
    • This comment has been edited.
  7. Kozak Member
    KozakJoined in the first year of Ricochet Ricochet Charter Member

    • #7
    • November 30, 2020, at 11:27 AM PST
    • 16 likes
  8. Addiction Is A Choice Member

    • #8
    • November 30, 2020, at 11:28 AM PST
    • 3 likes
  9. DrewInEastHillQuarantineZone Coolidge

    Misthiocracy got drunk and (View Comment):

    My only issue with “the talk” is the implied presumption that white parents don’t teach their kids how to behave when interacting with police.

    It seems to me that “how to behave when pulled over and/or questioned by police” is something everybody needs to be taught, since it seems like so very many people keep screwing it up.

    Yes, this is what I meant above. Doesn’t everyone sort of get this “talk”? Not necessarily in a formalized way, but . . . isn’t this just something you teach kids when you’re teaching them to drive?

    • #9
    • November 30, 2020, at 11:36 AM PST
    • 13 likes
  10. kedavis Member

    DrewInWisconsin, Man of Consta&hellip; (View Comment):

    Misthiocracy got drunk and (View Comment):

    My only issue with “the talk” is the implied presumption that white parents don’t teach their kids how to behave when interacting with police.

    It seems to me that “how to behave when pulled over and/or questioned by police” is something everybody needs to be taught, since it seems like so very many people keep screwing it up.

    Yes, this is what I meant above. Doesn’t everyone sort of get this “talk”? Not necessarily in a formalized way, but . . . isn’t this just something you teach kids when you’re teaching them to drive?

    Many black parents don’t seem to care much about what their kids do in regular school, so maybe it’s not surprising that the kids don’t learn much about driving either.

    • #10
    • November 30, 2020, at 11:39 AM PST
    • 1 like
  11. Misthiocracy got drunk and Member
    Misthiocracy got drunk andJoined in the first year of Ricochet Ricochet Charter Member

    DrewInWisconsin, Man of Consta&hellip; (View Comment):
    Yes, this is what I meant above.

    You say that as if you think I read through the comments before posting, and that’s just silly.

    • #11
    • November 30, 2020, at 11:39 AM PST
    • 3 likes
    • This comment has been edited.
  12. The_Admin() Admin

    I have to admit my parents never told me not to try to murder a police officer if I got pulled over. However, I’m fairly confident that they told me to be polite.

    • #12
    • November 30, 2020, at 11:43 AM PST
    • 20 likes
  13. Misthiocracy got drunk and Member
    Misthiocracy got drunk andJoined in the first year of Ricochet Ricochet Charter Member

    Max Ledoux (View Comment):

    I have to admit my parents never told me not to try to murder a police officer if I got pulled over. However, I’m fairly confident that they told me to be polite.

    Refraining from attempting murder is the epitome of proper etiquette.

    • #13
    • November 30, 2020, at 11:44 AM PST
    • 7 likes
  14. Bob Thompson Member

    Misthiocracy got drunk and (View Comment):

    My only issue with “the talk” is the implied presumption that white parents don’t teach their kids how to behave when interacting with police.

    It seems to me that “how to behave when pulled over and/or questioned by police” is something everybody needs to be taught, since it seems like so very many people keep screwing it up.

    Of course, there are two major versions of the talk. The one you are referencing about specifics in interaction with the police is a specific component of the generic teaching by most families black or white on how to behave in interactions with those in authority. This subject version of the talk is taught specifically to black children as a result of two unrelated elements that cause a greater percentage of potentially troublesome interactions between police and black youth than with others. Those two things are: the crime rate among blacks and remnants of racial discrimination experienced in society by today’s blacks. One other contributing factor with specifically police authority would be an over-exuberant use of authority by some police officers. All of these area are in need of attention and reform and success with those might leave us needing only the teaching of respect for those in authority, not to be overdone, of course.

     

    • #14
    • November 30, 2020, at 11:45 AM PST
    • 2 likes
  15. Jack Mantle Coolidge
    Jack Mantle

    Bob Thompson (View Comment):

    Misthiocracy got drunk and (View Comment):

    My only issue with “the talk” is the implied presumption that white parents don’t teach their kids how to behave when interacting with police.

    It seems to me that “how to behave when pulled over and/or questioned by police” is something everybody needs to be taught, since it seems like so very many people keep screwing it up.

    Of course, there are two major versions of the talk. The one you are referencing about specifics in interaction with the police is a specific component of the generic teaching by most families black or white on how to behave in interactions with those in authority. This subject version of the talk is taught specifically to black children as a result of two unrelated elements that cause a greater percentage of potentially troublesome interactions between police and black youth than with others. Those two things are: the crime rate among blacks and remnants of racial discrimination experienced in society by today’s blacks. One other contributing factor with specifically police authority would be an over-exuberant use of authority by some police officers. All of these area are in need of attention and reform and success with those might leave us needing only the teaching of respect for those in authority, not to be overdone, of course.

     

    I appreciate your thoughts. I can’t speak to actual remnants of racial discrimination. I suspect if such remnants were real, the media wouldn’t need to highlight manufactured Smollett-like stories. A favorite instance of mine is described here: https://patriotpost.us/opinion/71674-great-moments-in-racism-the-dashcam-tapes-2020-06-25

    As always, the president of my dear alma mater, Mr. Eisgruber, chimed in to proclaim this unfortunate incident to be all too common. In fact, what was all too common was the gullibility of people to believe that there are such remnants of racial discrimination.

    As for over-exuberance amongst police officers, I suspect this applies to small town White suspects as much as it applies to big city Black suspects. I have no reason to believe there is a racial component.

     

    • #15
    • November 30, 2020, at 11:59 AM PST
    • 2 likes
  16. Jerry Giordano (Arizona Patrio… Member

    I have no empirical evidence on which to base an opinion on the specific issue of “the talk.”

    I have little personal interaction with black people. I live in Pima County, Arizona, where the black population is around 3-4%. I tend to live and work in the better areas, so the black proportion is even smaller. I know 3 black guys at my church. They are all great guys, and are all married to white women.

    I have the impression that there is a shockingly dysfunctional inner-city black culture in some places, with which I have essentially no experience. My impression is that large number of people in such areas behave like pagan savages. I do not know the proportion of the total American black population that lives in such areas.

    There are empirical facts suggesting that the behavior of many black people is horrid. An estimated 33% of adult black men have a felony conviction. About 75% of black children are illegitimate. The black homicide rate is around 6-8 times the white rate, I think (though I haven’t looked into this precise figure lately). Black test performance and academic performance is quite poor overall. 

    Obviously, not all black Americans engage in such behaviors. The 3 guys that I know at church — and yes, I know them by name — do not behave in such ways.

    There are plenty of pagan savages among the white population, too, though the percentage appears to be quite a bit lower. There’s something else different, though — we generally don’t have a problem criticizing such people as “white trash.” It is tragic, but that is the way that they seem to act.

    • #16
    • November 30, 2020, at 12:00 PM PST
    • 9 likes
  17. EJHill Podcaster
    EJHillJoined in the first year of Ricochet Ricochet Charter Member

    The problem in America is not that black fathers have to have “the talk” with their children. The problem in America is that there are not enough black fathers around to have any kind of talk with their children. (And that is an increasing problem in the white communities as well.)

    • #17
    • November 30, 2020, at 12:03 PM PST
    • 31 likes
  18. Jack Mantle Coolidge
    Jack Mantle

    kedavis (View Comment):

    DrewInWisconsin, Man of Consta&hellip; (View Comment):

    Misthiocracy got drunk and (View Comment):

    My only issue with “the talk” is the implied presumption that white parents don’t teach their kids how to behave when interacting with police.

    It seems to me that “how to behave when pulled over and/or questioned by police” is something everybody needs to be taught, since it seems like so very many people keep screwing it up.

    Yes, this is what I meant above. Doesn’t everyone sort of get this “talk”? Not necessarily in a formalized way, but . . . isn’t this just something you teach kids when you’re teaching them to drive?

    Many black parents don’t seem to care much about what their kids do in regular school, so maybe it’s not surprising that the kids don’t learn much about driving either.

    I suspect that many if not most Black parents care desperately that their children are safe and desire to impart knowledge that will serve them well. Same as White parents. I just can’t get my head around the suggestion that Black children are so uniquely lacking in such knowledge. More to the point, I find it troubling that the media is presenting this deficiency as a fact to be unquestioningly accepted. I would love someone to tell me that the Talk is a PR canard of the left and not a reflection of reality.

    • #18
    • November 30, 2020, at 12:05 PM PST
    • 1 like
  19. Jack Mantle Coolidge
    Jack Mantle

    EJHill (View Comment):

    The problem in America is not that black fathers have to have “the talk” with their children. The problem in America is that there are not enough black fathers around to have any kind of talk with their children. (And that is an increasing problem in the white communities as well.)

    I suspect that the Talk in an invention to serve other purposes. If it were real – or at least actually put forward for the reasons stated – I would expect to see public service announcements where well known and respected figures urge kids (all kids) to refrain when pulled over from attempting to kill the police officers. Simple as that.

    • #19
    • November 30, 2020, at 12:09 PM PST
    • 2 likes
  20. DrewInEastHillQuarantineZone Coolidge

    Jack Mantle (View Comment):
    I would love someone to tell me that the Talk is a PR canard of the left and not a reflection of reality.

    Even if it is just a canard of the left, it’s filtered down to the point where if parents haven’t had the talk with their children, they believe they need to.

    I see this in my white friends who have adopted black children. They also have variations on “the talk” with them. And this bothers me, because it seems to send the message that there’s a problem with their kids’ skin color. But then I don’t know what it is to be a parent of black children and/or worry about their safety, so I really should just withhold comment.

    • #20
    • November 30, 2020, at 12:16 PM PST
    • 3 likes
  21. Bob Thompson Member

    Jack Mantle (View Comment):
    I appreciate your thoughts. I can’t speak to actual remnants of racial discrimination. I suspect if such remnants were real, the media wouldn’t need to highlight manufactured Smollett-like stories. A favorite instance of mine is described here:

    I don’t think there is an abundance of Smollett-like violent remnants of discrimination out there. I think when the racial discrimination does occur, it is subtle and maybe even not committed consciously but those on the receiving end are sensitive to it.

    In the case of the over-exuberant police officers, they are who are most aware of the criminal statistics so they are quicker to respond to any aggressive acts by blacks.

    • #21
    • November 30, 2020, at 12:28 PM PST
    • 1 like
  22. Ekosj Member

    DrewInWisconsin, Man of Consta&hellip; (View Comment):
    I was certainly taught to that if you’re pulled over, you keep your hands where the officer can see them and you don’t do any weird or sudden movements. I guess I thought that was a universal thing.

    Same here. I got it again when I was in college with the admonition that “We know you think you know everything and since you took that class in Constitutional Law feel particularly knowledgeable about your rights. If you get pulled over my the police DO NOT get snarky about probable cause and whatnot. It’s still Yes Sir and No Sir and hands in plain sight. If you really think your rights were violated, you can call an attorney after you get home.”

    • #22
    • November 30, 2020, at 12:31 PM PST
    • 7 likes
  23. EHerring Coolidge

    If ” the talk” is such a thing, why are so many resisting arrest, rude to cops, running from cops, and shooting cops?

    • #23
    • November 30, 2020, at 12:35 PM PST
    • 4 likes
  24. MarciN Member

    Misthiocracy got drunk and (View Comment):

    My only issue with “the talk” is the implied presumption that white parents don’t teach their kids how to behave when interacting with police.

    It seems to me that “how to behave when pulled over and/or questioned by police” is something everybody needs to be taught, since it seems like so very many people keep screwing it up.

    It wasn’t when I was a kid or when my own kids were learning to drive, but I think part of driver’s education should be a thorough discussion of what to do when stopped by the police, even for pedestrians. It should also be part of the students’ health classes. 

    Over the last few years, I’ve read a lot of articles about police-citizen encounters that have ended badly, and I’ve been surprised at the police officers’ expectations for those encounters. I grew up in a very small town, and the police officers were friendly and not at all intimidating in any way. 

    I think the expectations of the police officers should be part of a teenager’s education. I think it needs to be handled at school because a lot of parents haven’t kept up with the rules and expectations. 

    • #24
    • November 30, 2020, at 12:52 PM PST
    • 4 likes
  25. Jack Mantle Coolidge
    Jack Mantle

    MarciN (View Comment):

    Misthiocracy got drunk and (View Comment):

    My only issue with “the talk” is the implied presumption that white parents don’t teach their kids how to behave when interacting with police.

    It seems to me that “how to behave when pulled over and/or questioned by police” is something everybody needs to be taught, since it seems like so very many people keep screwing it up.

    It wasn’t when I was a kid or when my own kids were learning to drive, but I think part of driver’s education should be a thorough discussion of what to do when stopped by the police, even for pedestrians. It should also be part of the students’ health classes.

    Over the last few years, I’ve read a lot of articles about police-citizen encounters that have ended badly, and I’ve been surprised at the police officers’ expectations for those encounters. I grew up in a very small town, and the police officers were friendly and not at all intimidating in any way.

    I think the expectations of the police officers should be part of a teenager’s education. I think it needs to be handled at school because a lot of parents haven’t kept up with the rules and expectations.

    I don’t disagree. Though, again, I wonder from whence comes the belief that Black children if confronted with a multiple choice question –

    When pulled over by a police officer, one should:

    a. Attempt to disarm the officer and kill him.

    b. Resist arrest and fire a Taser at the officer.

    c. All of the above.

    d. None of the above.

    – would not see “d” as the best option. I simply don’t feel that my “Whiteness” imparts any special insight here. It just seems rather obvious.

     

    • #25
    • November 30, 2020, at 1:03 PM PST
    • 8 likes
  26. Susan Quinn Contributor

    Funny thing. I don’t remember my folks ever telling me how to act if I got pulled over by the police. I’m not sure if that’s because they couldn’t imagine their angel of a daughter ever being pulled over (wrong) or because I was a little blond woman. H.m.m.m…

    • #26
    • November 30, 2020, at 1:15 PM PST
    • 3 likes
  27. TBA Coolidge

    My father taught me to be deferential to police. 

    White. 

    • #27
    • November 30, 2020, at 1:17 PM PST
    • 3 likes
  28. Full Size Tabby Member

    Jack Mantle (View Comment):

    kedavis (View Comment):

    DrewInWisconsin, Man of Consta&hellip; (View Comment):

    Misthiocracy got drunk and (View Comment):

    My only issue with “the talk” is the implied presumption that white parents don’t teach their kids how to behave when interacting with police.

    It seems to me that “how to behave when pulled over and/or questioned by police” is something everybody needs to be taught, since it seems like so very many people keep screwing it up.

    Yes, this is what I meant above. Doesn’t everyone sort of get this “talk”? Not necessarily in a formalized way, but . . . isn’t this just something you teach kids when you’re teaching them to drive?

    Many black parents don’t seem to care much about what their kids do in regular school, so maybe it’s not surprising that the kids don’t learn much about driving either.

    I suspect that many if not most Black parents care desperately that their children are safe and desire to impart knowledge that will serve them well. Same as White parents. I just can’t get my head around the suggestion that Black children are so uniquely lacking in such knowledge. More to the point, I find it troubling that the media is presenting this deficiency as a fact to be unquestioningly accepted. I would love someone to tell me that the Talk is a PR canard of the left and not a reflection of reality.

    From 2000 until 2018 I worked in a northern U.S. city with a large poor black population. I was appalled to hear from people who worked with kids in the city how little knowledge was passed from parents (or other family members) to the kids. A disturbingly large portion of parents were either absent or completely disengaged from what their kids were doing. An example is that many teachers reported that not a single parent from any of their classes would attend school parent events. A work skills program had to teach teens how (And why) to use an alarm clock because getting anywhere on time was an unknown concept in their families.

    • #28
    • November 30, 2020, at 1:19 PM PST
    • 8 likes
  29. kedavis Member

    Jack Mantle (View Comment):

    Bob Thompson (View Comment):

    Misthiocracy got drunk and (View Comment):

    My only issue with “the talk” is the implied presumption that white parents don’t teach their kids how to behave when interacting with police.

    It seems to me that “how to behave when pulled over and/or questioned by police” is something everybody needs to be taught, since it seems like so very many people keep screwing it up.

    Of course, there are two major versions of the talk. The one you are referencing about specifics in interaction with the police is a specific component of the generic teaching by most families black or white on how to behave in interactions with those in authority. This subject version of the talk is taught specifically to black children as a result of two unrelated elements that cause a greater percentage of potentially troublesome interactions between police and black youth than with others. Those two things are: the crime rate among blacks and remnants of racial discrimination experienced in society by today’s blacks. One other contributing factor with specifically police authority would be an over-exuberant use of authority by some police officers. All of these area are in need of attention and reform and success with those might leave us needing only the teaching of respect for those in authority, not to be overdone, of course.

     

    I appreciate your thoughts. I can’t speak to actual remnants of racial discrimination. I suspect if such remnants were real, the media wouldn’t need to highlight manufactured Smollett-like stories. A favorite instance of mine is described here: https://patriotpost.us/opinion/71674-great-moments-in-racism-the-dashcam-tapes-2020-06-25

    As always, the president of my dear alma mater, Mr. Eisgruber, chimed in to proclaim this unfortunate incident to be all too common. In fact, what was all too common was the gullibility of people to believe that there are such remnants of racial discrimination.

    As for over-exuberance amongst police officers, I suspect this applies to small town White suspects as much as it applies to big city Black suspects. I have no reason to believe there is a racial component.

     

    Sounds to me like Patriot Post is a site worth supporting by Ricochet members.

    • #29
    • November 30, 2020, at 1:19 PM PST
    • 1 like
  30. kedavis Member

    EJHill (View Comment):

    The problem in America is not that black fathers have to have “the talk” with their children. The problem in America is that there are not enough black fathers around to have any kind of talk with their children. (And that is an increasing problem in the white communities as well.)

    There is no lack of fathers making babies, but they aren’t around much after that.

    • #30
    • November 30, 2020, at 1:21 PM PST
    • 2 likes