Recommended by Ricochet Members Created with Sketch. Question for My Lefty Friends?

 
The Left has created the conditions for dozens of needless deaths, for the reduction of primarily black neighborhoods to a smoldering ruin, for the demoralization and departure of hundreds of police officers from the neediest neighborhoods, skyrocketing murder rates in vulnerable communities. As if all this weren’t achievements enough, #Black Lives Matter/Antifa activists have at last undertaken the work of trashing monuments to the men and moments that are deeply offensive to those whose feelings, as well as lives, matter.
 
It began with monuments to Confederate soldiers, but as Donald Trump predicted (to loud ridicule, at the time) it didn’t end there. Statues depicting George Washington, Thomas Jefferson, Francis Scott Key, Phillip Schuyler, Ronald Reagan, Polish Revolutionary War hero Thaddeus Kosciuszko, Andrew Jackson, Ulysses S. Grant, Kit Carson, Abraham Lincoln, Frederick Douglass, abolitionists Hans Christian Heg and Matthias Baldwin, Christopher Columbus, San Junipero Sera, Juan de Onate, Theodore Roosevelt, John Breckenridge Castleman, the Virgin Mary, Jesus, Mahatma Gandhi, and, for some reason, an elk have all been subjected to defacement or destruction in the name of black victims of white police violence. 
 
Across the nation, hammers, burning rags, ropes, crowbars, and red paint have been deployed against monuments commemorating Union veterans (including the monument to the all-black 54th Massachusetts Regiment) police officers killed in the line of duty, 9/11 firefighters, female pioneers, women’s progress, soldiers and sailors, WWI veterans and the victims of the Armenian Genocide.
 
There is a reasonable debate to be had about the wisdom or necessity of removing monuments to Confederate soldiers and, yes, there are likely good people to be found on both sides of it. But now that such debate has been foreclosed by direct, revolutionary action, the (partial) list above begs a more important question for anyone who is enthusiastically or even vaguely supporting the protesters.
 
 What is the limiting principle in the Woke iconoclasm?
 
I ask, because Mayor Muriel Bowser of Washington, DC, recently embraced the conclusions of a city working group she’d tasked with evaluating whether statues and memorials in the city should be removed or contextualized if the historical figures they represent participated in “slavery, systemic racism, mistreatment of, or actions that suppressed equality for, persons of color, women and LGBTQ communities and violation of the DC Human Rights Act.”
If that is, indeed, the mainstream bar to clear, it explains why poor old Frederick Douglass and the 54th Massachusetts were targeted. For all their undoubted Blackness and astonishing courage, who knows what evil thoughts those guys might have had about transgendered bathrooms? Indeed, it is difficult to think of a public figure at any time up ’til the present who could be sure of passing muster with Muriel & Co, including Barack Obama or Bernie Sanders.
 
It is possible that many of my fellow Unitarian Universalists are okay with the beheading of statues of Jesus. Not (just) because Jesus makes us kind of uncomfortable, but because a statue is just a statue! It’s just “stuff.”  A UU believes (and should), along with the Reverend Erik Carlson of Kenosha, that his century-old UU church building, very nearly a casualty of the mostly-peaceful social justice arsonists, was as nothing compared with the police shooting of Jacob Blake. 
 
“We’d rather lose 100 buildings than one more life to police violence,” the church website virtuously proclaimed. Of course, thanks to the quick action of passersby (if not, you know, God) Rev. Carlson and his congregation did not lose their building, though the car dealership next door was burned to cinders. Scrolling through the website, I found no sympathetic mention of this loss, no prayers for the owner or employees, nor links to fundraisers with suggestions to donate.
 
Unitarian Universalists, I should admit here, are overwhelmingly drawn from the middle to upper-middle classes, which may explain the insouciance when it comes to material possessions. “Just stuff,” they say, with the smugness of those who find “stuff,” even whole buildings, easy to come by. Since UUs are also mostly left-leaning Democrats, they understand it to be the government’s job, not theirs, to look after burned-out neighbors. “We care about the building, but we care about people way more,” Rev. Carlson assured reporters. Well… some people. 
 
If you count yourself a progressive; if there’s a Black Lives Matter sign in your yard; if the mostly-peaceful, though astonishingly destructive protests seem to you an understandable or even justified response to the racism you agree is “systemic” in America; if you agree with Rev. Carlson that random car dealerships and old church buildings—even ones with “Black Lives Matter” signs out front—are perfectly legitimate targets for Woke outrage… then what do you, personally, believe is, or at least ought to be, the limiting principle on that violence?
 
After all, I dimly recall a certain shared horror in UU land at the Taliban’s destruction of the ancient, priceless Bamiyan Buddhist statues in Afghanistan back in 200l. This, despite the undeniable fact that Afghan Muslims found those statues outrageously offensive. 
 
Are there objects you feel should be spared destruction even if they offend people? How confident are you that today’s activists would agree with, or at least respect, your (or any) boundaries?
 
For example: How do you feel about the “mere stuff” that fills the National Gallery or the Metropolitan Museum of Art? 
 
Folks, if any public institution is systemically racist inside and out, it’s an art museum. These are white-designed buildings filled with the work of white, old, white, un-woke white, cis-gendered white men—and what work! Heteronormative, culturally-appropriative Western colonialist capitalist hegemony enshrined in paint and canvas, marble and clay, and funded, curated, managed, and patronized and enjoyed by overwhelmingly white people. 
 
Don’t think the Woke haven’t noticed. There have already been public calls for the “restructuring” or abolition of museums in the name of racial justice. It’s just a matter of time before the same logic that leads activists to try to burn down the historic St. John’s Church in Washington, DC compels violence against these and other, similar cultural institutions.
 
Should activists whose legitimate outrage led them to destroy a statue of an elk be expected to spare the paintings of Giotto, Goya, van Gogh, Giacometti or Georgia O’Keefe? If Abraham Lincoln and Frederick Douglass were not excused, how can we be sure that Winslow Homer or Mary Cassatt won’t turn out to have “participated in slavery, systemic racism, mistreatment of or actions that suppressed equality for persons of color, women and LGBTQ communities…” or that they would not, today, be found to have somehow violated the DC Human Rights Act? 
 
As it happens, throughout most of this historic, transformative, George Floyd/Jacob Blake/assorted (armed/overdosing/woman beating/murderous/suicidal) victimized black males protest period, the “just stuff” at America’s major museums has been protected—thanks to COVID-19—behind locked doors
 
But the doors will open. And the Woke will enter in. 
 
They’ve already laid the groundwork. They’ve made the usual demands——more Black representation on boards, more rich-college-student internships for Black rich college students, more money for Black artists, more condescending fawning and puffery instead of criticism for Black art plus the removal of works claimed to have appropriated Black themes and techniques (goodbye Picasso!) and the repatriation of various artifacts looted from Egypt and Africa by white Colonialists. 
 
Recent history suggests, however, that one demand, if met, merely and inevitably cues the next. Since museums are filled with words and images, and words and images (in their presence or absence) are defined as “violence,” retaliatory violence is always on the table. 
 
Of course, there will be guards in place at the Metropolitan Museum, and alarm systems linked to the city police department. But is that a good thing, given that we’re talking about the same racist, brutal (and increasingly demoralized and depopulated) police departments that the social-democratic mayor has already signaled his willingness to abolish?
 
Well, and why, when we are in the midst of the transformative work of “re-imagining public safety” should brutal, racist police be paid to forcibly defend the treasures of a cis-gendered, heteronormative, patriarchal white Western history and culture against angry black-and-brown people and their more numerous white “allies?”
 
F— Michaelangelo! F— Degas! F— the British Wing and f— the Asian Wing too (Asians are white-adjacent after all). Behead those medieval Mary-and-Jesus figures, their heads and toes rubbed shiny by a million tender human touches, slash the Byzantine altarpieces, smash the Greek and Roman statues, make a pyre of DaVinci drawings and Durer prints and burn upon it an effigy of Donald Trump in the rotunda. We would rather lose a hundred Monets than one more life to police violence!
 
Right?
 
If not…why not? 
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  1. Arahant Member

    GrannyDude: Question for My Lefty Friends?

    Funny how that happened, isn’t it? Just a few short years ago, had I put out a post with that title, you would have answered it. 😜

    • #1
    • September 15, 2020, at 5:47 PM PDT
    • 11 likes
  2. Percival Thatcher
    PercivalJoined in the first year of Ricochet Ricochet Charter Member

    GrannyDude: It began with monuments to Confederate soldiers, but as Donald Trump predicted (to loud ridicule, at the time) it didn’t end there. Statues depicting George Washington, Thomas Jefferson, Francis Scott Key, Phillip Schulyer, Ronald Reagan, Polish Revolutionary war hero Thaddeus Kosciuszko, Andrew Jackson, Ulysses S. Grant, Kit Carson, Abraham Lincoln, Frederick Douglass, abolitionists Hans Christian Heg and Matthias Baldwin, Christopher Columbus, San Junipero Sera, Juan d’Onate, Theodore Roosevelt, John Breckenridge Castleman, the Virgin Mary, Jesus, Mahatma Ghandi, and, for some reason, an elk have all been subjected to defacement or destruction in the name of black victims of white police violence. 

    And Stevie Ray Vaughan!

    Okay. Maybe “Rude Mood” isn’t your cup of tea. Maybe “Tightrope” sets your teeth on edge. Maybe “Pride and Joy” inspires neither in you. But Stevie? In the words of the Eagles, “I’d like to find your inner child and kick its little ass.”

    These people don’t deserve Stevie Ray Vaughan, or concert venues, or museums, or libraries, or anything else nice. They don’t even qualify as barbarians. Intellectually sub-normal, culturally bereft, historically illiterate, emotionally incontinent, and yet somehow self-important twits.

    • #2
    • September 15, 2020, at 6:43 PM PDT
    • 10 likes
  3. Zafar Member

    It would be interesting if you did share this with your Lefty friends and, with their permission, shared their responses with us. 

    • #3
    • September 15, 2020, at 7:41 PM PDT
    • 11 likes
  4. Randy Webster Member

    GrannyDude: by overwhelmingly white people. 

    I’m white enough. I’m not sure I’m overwhelmingly white.

    • #4
    • September 15, 2020, at 8:33 PM PDT
    • 8 likes
  5. TBA Coolidge

    GrannyDudeIt began with monuments to Confederate soldiers, but as Donald Trump predicted (to loud ridicule, at the time) it didn’t end there. Statues depicting George Washington, Thomas Jefferson, Francis Scott Key, Phillip Schulyer, Ronald Reagan, Polish Revolutionary war hero Thaddeus Kosciuszko, Andrew Jackson, Ulysses S. Grant, Kit Carson, Abraham Lincoln, Frederick Douglass, abolitionists Hans Christian Heg and Matthias Baldwin, Christopher Columbus, San Junipero Sera, Juan d’Onate, Theodore Roosevelt, John Breckenridge Castleman, the Virgin Mary, Jesus, Mahatma Ghandi, and, for some reason, an elk have all been subjected to defacement or destruction in the name of black victims of white police violence.  Across the nation, hammers, burning rags, ropes, crowbars and red paint have been deployed against monuments commemorating Union veterans (including the monument to the all-black 54th Massachusetts Regiment) police officers killed in the line of duty, 9/11 firefighters, female pioneers, women’s progress, soldiers and sailors, WW1 veterans and the victims of the Armenian Genocide.  There is a reasonable debate to be had about the wisdom or necessity of removing monuments to Confederate soldiers and, yes, there are likely good people to be found on both sides of it. But now that such debate has been foreclosed by direct, revolutionary action, the (partial) list above begs a more important question for anyone who is enthusiastically, or even vaguely supporting the protesters.

    Iconoclasm is generally mob action and even if the people that make up the mob aren’t ignorant and barbarous, they quickly become so as a group. 

      What is the limiting principle in Woke iconoclasm?

    Deconstructionists are only limited by running out of things to destroy. 

    Are there objects you feel should be spared destruction even if they offend people? How confident are you that today’s activists would agree with, or at least respect, your (or any) boundaries? For example: How do you feel about the “mere stuff” that fills the National Gallery or the Metropolitan Museum of Art?

    Museums will likely be a step too far – assuming protesters have the imagination or gumption to attack them. Also liberals are DIMBYs at heart; Don’t Ignite My Back Yard. And that is starting to happen. 

     

    • #5
    • September 16, 2020, at 12:14 AM PDT
    • 3 likes
  6. She Reagan
    SheJoined in the first year of Ricochet Ricochet Charter Member

    TBA (View Comment):
    Museums will likely be a step too far – assuming protesters have the imagination or gumption to attack them.

    I dunno. I expect it will depend on whether they can fold far enough and fast enough to avert the wrath of the mob.

    On the cultural institution front, the Royal Academy of Dramatic Art is doing its bit:

    We recognise that RADA has been responsible for maintaining structures that are systemically racist. We are aware that RADA has been and currently is institutionally racist. We are profoundly sorry for the role we have played in the traumatic and oppressive experiences of our current and past Black students, graduates and staff.

    We are sorry for our inadequate response to The Black Lives Matter movement. The movement has brought action against racism into the foreground and we recognise the need for urgent and fundamental learning and change.

    Most recently, it is dealing with demands that it stop performing Restoration Comedies (written between about 1660 and 1700), because of their links to “Empire” and that George Bernard Shaw’s name be removed from their theatre,* So far, RADA has announced its intention to “decolonize the curriculum,” but I don’t think they’ve clarified what that actually means.

    What I note throughout, in this RADA article and elsewhere, is the claim that this, or that, outgroup has been “made to feel” a certain way. Reading, or watching, a play that was written in 1660, that reflects the mores and standards of the time in which it was written apparently “makes” twenty-first century BAMEs (I thought I’d mastered woke acronym hell with BIPOC, but, No) feel excluded. Even thinking about a 130-year old collection of shrunken heads in a museum which was dedicated to collecting and classifying cultural artifacts from around the world apparently “makes” various twenty-first century collective identities recognize and suffer the effects of racism.

    One of the basic tenets of what I’m going to call Reality Attachment Syndrome is a person’s understanding that 1)most things that happen in the world are not about him because he is not the center of everyone’s else’s universe and top of everyone else’s mind, and 2)while he’s not responsible for what other people do or think, he’s entirely responsible for his reactions in response. What we seem to have at the moment is exactly the opposite–the partitioning of large groups of people into arbitrary and inchoate groups who are encouraged at every level to believe that everything that has ever happened since the beginning of time and which continues today is some sort of aggression directed at them and requires some sort of aggressive response on their part and 2)that whatever their response, no matter how absurd, violent, or even criminal, they must be catered to, kowtowed to (cultural appropriation alert!), and not be sanctioned for it.

    Ultimately, I doubt that museums and other institutions of culture (elitism alert!) will be able to demonstrate sufficient wokeness to satisfy the mob, and so yes, I expect they’ll be demolished or permanently closed too.

    We laugh at the Victorians for covering up piano legs with skirts, because, “legs.” Tell me this is not orders of magnitude worse and more stupid.

    *And yes, Shaw had some loathsome ideas. All the more reason not to cancel him (which is certainly the endgame here), so we can remember how loathsome they were.

    • #6
    • September 16, 2020, at 4:31 AM PDT
    • 7 likes
    • This comment has been edited.
  7. Miffed White Male Member
    Miffed White MaleJoined in the first year of Ricochet Ricochet Charter Member

    TBA (View Comment):
    Iconoclasm is generally mob action and even if the people that make up the mob aren’t ignorant and barbarous, they quickly become so as a group. 

    One of my favorite Demotivation posters:

    “Committees. Because none of us is as dumb as all of us.”

     

    • #7
    • September 16, 2020, at 5:16 AM PDT
    • 13 likes
  8. Percival Thatcher
    PercivalJoined in the first year of Ricochet Ricochet Charter Member

    She (View Comment):
    *And yes, Shaw had some loathsome ideas. All the more reason not to cancel him (which is certainly the endgame here), so we can remember how loathsome they were.

    Shaw survives McCarthyism, only to fall prey to the Woke.

    • #8
    • September 16, 2020, at 5:22 AM PDT
    • 6 likes
  9. GrannyDude Member
    GrannyDude

    Music shall not be excused: https://thefederalist.com/2020/09/16/no-beethoven-classical-music-and-etiquette-arent-white-supremacist/

    She (View Comment):

     

    One of the basic tenets of what I’m going to call Reality Attachment Syndrome is a person’s understanding that 1)most things that happen in the world are not about him because he is not the center of everyone’s else’s universe and top of everyone else’s mind, and 2)while he’s not responsible for what other people do or think, he’s entirely responsible for his reactions in response. What we seem to have at the moment is exactly the opposite–the partitioning of large groups of people into arbitrary and inchoate groups who are encouraged at every level to believe that everything that has ever happened since the beginning of time and which continues today is some sort of aggression directed at them and requires some sort of aggressive response on their part and 2)that whatever their response, no matter how absurd, violent, or even criminal, they must be catered to, kowtowed to (cultural appropriation alert!), and not be sanctioned for it.

    Perfect summary, @She. I want to appropriate it.

    • #9
    • September 16, 2020, at 6:17 AM PDT
    • 5 likes
  10. GrannyDude Member
    GrannyDude

    Zafar (View Comment):

    It would be interesting if you did share this with your Lefty friends and, with their permission, shared their responses with us.

    I’ll give it a try, Zafar!

    • #10
    • September 16, 2020, at 6:17 AM PDT
    • 2 likes
  11. Marythefifth Member
    MarythefifthJoined in the first year of Ricochet Ricochet Charter Member

    Your Lefty friends will deny that there has been any violence because they haven’t seen any of the videos on their news feeds. Even people who live in Portland do so.

    • #11
    • September 16, 2020, at 6:38 AM PDT
    • 7 likes
  12. She Reagan
    SheJoined in the first year of Ricochet Ricochet Charter Member

    GrannyDude (View Comment):

    Music shall not be excused: https://thefederalist.com/2020/09/16/no-beethoven-classical-music-and-etiquette-arent-white-supremacist/

    She (View Comment):

     

    One of the basic tenets of what I’m going to call Reality Attachment Syndrome is a person’s understanding that 1)most things that happen in the world are not about him because he is not the center of everyone’s else’s universe and top of everyone else’s mind, and 2)while he’s not responsible for what other people do or think, he’s entirely responsible for his reactions in response. What we seem to have at the moment is exactly the opposite–the partitioning of large groups of people into arbitrary and inchoate groups who are encouraged at every level to believe that everything that has ever happened since the beginning of time and which continues today is some sort of aggression directed at them and requires some sort of aggressive response on their part and 2)that whatever their response, no matter how absurd, violent, or even criminal, they must be catered to, kowtowed to (cultural appropriation alert!), and not be sanctioned for it.

    Perfect summary, @She. I want to appropriate it.

    Thanks. Consider it yours.

    • #12
    • September 16, 2020, at 7:00 AM PDT
    • 2 likes
  13. Buckpasser Member
    BuckpasserJoined in the first year of Ricochet Ricochet Charter Member

    Omelette’s……eggs…..something like that.

    • #13
    • September 16, 2020, at 7:33 AM PDT
    • 1 like
  14. Ontheleftcoast Member

    This sort of thing doesn’t just happen.

    In our report on Never Trump State Department official George KentRevolver News first drew attention to the ominous similarities between the strategies and tactics the United States government employs in so-called “Color Revolutions” and the coordinated efforts of government bureaucrats, NGOs, and the media to oust President Trump.

    Our recent follow-up to this initial report focused specifically on a shadowy, George Soros linked group called the Transition Integrity Project (TIP), which convened “war games” exercises suggesting the likelihood of a “contested election scenario,” and of ensuing chaos should President Trump refuse to leave office. We further showed how these “contested election” scenarios we are hearing so much about play perfectly into the Color Revolution framework sketched out Revolver News’ first installment in the Color Revolution series.

    This third installment of Revolver News‘ series exposing the Color Revolution against Trump will focus on one quiet and indeed mostly overlooked participant in the Transition Integrity Project’s biased election “war games” exercise—a man by the name of Norm Eisen.

    As the man who implemented the David Brock blueprint for suing the President into paralysis and his allies into bankruptcy, who helped mainstream and amplify the Russia Hoax, who drafted 10 articles of impeachment for the Democrats a full month before President Trump ever called the Ukraine President in 2018, who personally served as special counsel litigating the Ukraine impeachment, who created a template for Internet censorship of world leaders and a handbook for mass mobilizing racial justice protesters to overturn democratic election results, there is perhaps no man alive with a more decorated resume for plots against President Trump.

    Indeed, the story of Norm Eisen – a key architect of nearly every attempt to delegitimize, impeach, censor, sue and remove the democratically elected 45th President of the United States – is a tale that winds through nearly every facet of the color revolution playbook. There is no purer embodiment of Revolver’s thesis that the very same regime change professionals who run Color Revolutions on behalf of the US Government in order to undermine or overthrow alleged “authoritarian” governments overseas, are running the very same playbook to overturn Trump’s 2016 victory and to pre-empt a repeat in 2020. To put it simply, what you see is not just the same Color Revolution playbook run against Trump, but the same people using it against Trump who have employed it in a professional capacity against targets overseas—same people same playbook. 

     

    • #14
    • September 16, 2020, at 9:02 AM PDT
    • 2 likes
  15. Bishop Wash Member

    GrannyDude: It began with monuments to Confederate soldiers, but as Donald Trump predicted (to loud ridicule, at the time) it didn’t end there. Statues depicting George Washington, Thomas Jefferson, Francis Scott Key, Phillip Schuyler, Ronald Reagan, Polish Revolutionary War hero Thaddeus Kosciuszko, Andrew Jackson, Ulysses S. Grant, Kit Carson, Abraham Lincoln, Frederick Douglass, abolitionists Hans Christian Heg and Matthias Baldwin, Christopher Columbus, San Junipero Sera, Juan de Onate, Theodore Roosevelt, John Breckenridge Castleman, the Virgin Mary, Jesus, Mahatma Gandhi, and, for some reason, an elk have all been subjected to defacement or destruction in the name of black victims of white police violence. 

    I think it was in Wisconsin that a reporter asked a rioter whose statue they’d torn down. The rioter had no idea. He was caught up in the mob energy to destroy things. It might have been the Heg statue.

    • #15
    • September 16, 2020, at 10:17 AM PDT
    • 6 likes
  16. MarciN Member

    If everyone is guilty of racism, then no one can point a finger at anyone else. Perhaps that is how this story will end.

    • #16
    • September 16, 2020, at 10:39 AM PDT
    • 3 likes
    • This comment has been edited.
  17. aardo vozz Member

    Miffed White Male (View Comment):

    TBA (View Comment):
    Iconoclasm is generally mob action and even if the people that make up the mob aren’t ignorant and barbarous, they quickly become so as a group.

    One of my favorite Demotivation posters:

    “Committees. Because none of us is as dumb as all of us.”

     

    One of my favorites: “Government. If you think the problems we create are bad, just wait until you see our solutions.”

    • #17
    • September 16, 2020, at 11:08 AM PDT
    • 11 likes
  18. TBA Coolidge

    MarciN (View Comment):

    It has just occurred to me that we may be on the verge of a major breakthrough here. In writing a comment in response to the question of China’s guilt in conducting research into biological weapons and unleashing the covid-19 virus, I said that the reason that we probably will never know for sure what happened was because every developed country in the world is equally guilty of this type of experimentation. There’s no one with clean hands to point a finger at anyone else. Research on biological weapons is as much, if not more, an act of defense as it is an act of aggression. We have to assume everyone is doing it and so we must be prepared.

    A similar phenomenon may be brewing with the growing perception that all whites and pure Latinos are guilty of racism and enslaving black people. If we go there, and we seem to be heading there fast, it will turn out that everyone is guilty and no one can point a finger at anyone else.

    I wonder if we should just let this go and not argue with it. We could develop a sort of herd immunity to it.

    Perhaps that will soon be the end of this story.

    • #18
    • September 16, 2020, at 11:18 AM PDT
    • 5 likes
  19. No Caesar Thatcher
    No CaesarJoined in the first year of Ricochet Ricochet Charter Member

    My stuff is worth more than your life to me. My stuff = my life. My stuff came from the money I earned. The money I earned came from giving of my time and labor (parts of my life) to create value for someone else. If you break or steal my stuff, you’ve killed a part of my life. I happily choose to give some of my stuff/money/life to others (i.e. charity and church). But if you are going to try to force me to do so, I will use deadly force to stop you, or (and this matters) prevent you.

    I said a version of the above statement to someone who said “it’s just stuff” when I commented disparagingly about Black (identifying) Looters Matter. They were shocked and confused. Their only retort was “ya, but…insurance will pay”. Which is a monumentally stupid, immoral, and ignorant comment to make. They act like insurance is a free money tree, it’s always there like the sun and the moon. Nevermind the disruption. They are economic idiots and moral fools.

    I think more people need to just say: my stuff is worth more than your life, if you’re going to try to take it or break it.

    As to public “stuff”, that’s everyone’s. And in a moral world, you don’t get to destroy what belongs to others. In a representative democracy, the moral and right approach is to make decisions via our representatives following a deliberative process.

    • #19
    • September 16, 2020, at 2:02 PM PDT
    • 11 likes
    • This comment has been edited.
  20. Weeping Member

    No Caesar (View Comment):

    My stuff is worth more than your life to me. My stuff = my life. My stuff came from the money I earned. The money I earned came from giving of my time and labor (parts of my life) to create value for someone else. If you break or steal my stuff, you’ve killed a part of my life. I happily choose to give some of my stuff/money/life to others (i.e. charity and church). But if you are going to try to force me to do so, I will use deadly force to stop you, or (and this matters) prevent you.

    I said a version of the above statement to someone who said “it’s just stuff” when I commented disparagingly about Black (identifying) Looters Matter. They were shocked and confused. Their only retort was “ya, but…insurance will pay”. Which is a monumentally stupid, immoral, and ignorant comment to make. They act like insurance is a free money tree, it’s always there like the sun and the moon. Nevermind the disruption. They are economic idiots and moral fools.

    I think more people need to just say: my stuff is worth more than your life, if you’re going to try to take it or break it.

     

    • #20
    • September 16, 2020, at 2:08 PM PDT
    • 2 likes
  21. Miffed White Male Member
    Miffed White MaleJoined in the first year of Ricochet Ricochet Charter Member

    No Caesar (View Comment):

    My stuff is worth more than your life to me. My stuff = my life. My stuff came from the money I earned. The money I earned came from giving of my time and labor (parts of my life) to create value for someone else. If you break or steal my stuff, you’ve killed a part of my life. I happily choose to give some of my stuff/money/life to others (i.e. charity and church). But if you are going to try to force me to do so, I will use deadly force to stop you, or (and this matters) prevent you.

    I said a version of the above statement to someone who said “it’s just stuff” when I commented disparagingly about Black (identifying) Looters Matter. They were shocked and confused. Their only retort was “ya, but…insurance will pay”. Which is a monumentally stupid, immoral, and ignorant comment to make. They act like insurance is a free money tree, it’s always there like the sun and the moon. Nevermind the disruption. They are economic idiots and moral fools.

    I think more people need to just say: my stuff is worth more than your life, if you’re going to try to take it or break it.

    And if hey see you standing there with a gun, and still decide to loot, then they’ve obviously decided that “your stuff” is worth more than “their life”.

    • #21
    • September 16, 2020, at 2:09 PM PDT
    • 3 likes
  22. No Caesar Thatcher
    No CaesarJoined in the first year of Ricochet Ricochet Charter Member

    Miffed White Male (View Comment):

    And if hey see you standing there with a gun, and still decide to loot, then they’ve obviously decided that “your stuff” is worth more than “their life”.

    Fortunately, I live in a peaceful area that is unlikely to get a visit from violent malcontents. However, I work in a place that is less so (although relatively low-key). Nevertheless, I don’t wave a gun around, but I know how to use one and have access to some.

    The first firearm training I had was: always act like it’s loaded, and don’t point it where you’re not prepared to shoot. I follow those rules.

    • #22
    • September 16, 2020, at 2:38 PM PDT
    • 2 likes
    • This comment has been edited.
  23. Zafar Member

    Ontheleftcoast (View Comment):
    In our report on Never Trump State Department official George KentRevolver News first drew attention to the ominous similarities between the strategies and tactics the United States government employs in so-called “Color Revolutions” and the coordinated efforts of government bureaucrats, NGOs, and the media to oust President Trump.

    Karma, huh?

    • #23
    • September 16, 2020, at 3:19 PM PDT
    • Like
  24. Flicker Coolidge

    MarciN (View Comment):

    It has just occurred to me that we may be on the verge of a major breakthrough here. In writing a comment in response to the question of China’s guilt in conducting research into biological weapons and unleashing the covid-19 virus, I said that the reason that we probably will never know for sure what happened was because every developed country in the world is equally guilty of this type of experimentation. There’s no one with clean hands to point a finger at anyone else. Research on biological weapons is as much, if not more, an act of defense as it is an act of aggression. We have to assume everyone is doing it and so we must be prepared.

    A similar phenomenon may be brewing with the growing perception that all whites and pure Latinos are guilty of racism and enslaving black people. If we go there, and we seem to be heading there fast, it will turn out that everyone is guilty and no one can point a finger at anyone else.

    Perhaps that will soon be the end of this story.

    Ah, universal guilt. If only we were there. Well, someday. :)

    • #24
    • September 16, 2020, at 4:11 PM PDT
    • 2 likes
  25. Henry Castaigne Member

    GrannyDude: It is possible that many of my fellow Unitarian Universalists are okay with the beheading of statues of Jesus.

    Didn’t Jesus have it rough enough already? 

    • #25
    • September 17, 2020, at 1:38 AM PDT
    • 5 likes
  26. Henry Castaigne Member

    GrannyDude: F— Michaelangelo! F— Degas! F— the British Wing and f— the Asian Wing too (Asians are white-adjacent after all).

    Why are Asians white adjacent? I know what NAM is but not white adjacent.

    • #26
    • September 17, 2020, at 1:42 AM PDT
    • 1 like
  27. Zafar Member

    Because in many situations in America we are treated like white people, or pretty close. Usually that’s a good thing for us.

    • #27
    • September 17, 2020, at 2:58 AM PDT
    • 3 likes
  28. Flicker Coolidge

    Zafar (View Comment):

    Because in many situations in America we are treated like white people, or pretty close. Usually that’s a good thing for us.

    But I thought only orientals were white adjacent. Oh, I’ll never get this anti-racist hierarchy right!

    • #28
    • September 17, 2020, at 3:03 AM PDT
    • 4 likes
  29. Zafar Member

    Flicker (View Comment):

    Zafar (View Comment):

    Because in many situations in America we are treated like white people, or pretty close. Usually that’s a good thing for us.

    But I thought only orientals were white adjacent. Oh, I’ll never get this anti-racist hierarchy right!

    Just speaking from my own experience. I lived in the US for ten happy years, I never felt discriminated against, I was treated no differently from white Americans in college or at work, and we were noticeably treated better than Black Americans. It is what it is.

    • #29
    • September 17, 2020, at 3:07 AM PDT
    • 4 likes
  30. Arahant Member

    I think all of my neighbors are South Asians of one stripe or another. Hard working, married two-parent families. What some would call acting white.

    • #30
    • September 17, 2020, at 3:12 AM PDT
    • 4 likes