Contributor Post Created with Sketch. Recommended by Ricochet Members Created with Sketch. John Podhoretz

 

Based on years of listening to him, and on everything I’ve heard about him, John Podhoretz is a gentle, humane, and thoroughly decent man. I envy him his ability to pluck precisely the right word from his obviously vast vocabulary, and to speak, when he chooses, with extraordinary nuance and precision.

Sure, he’s prone to outrageous hyperbole (a quality hardly unique to him in this, the Age of Trump), is unduly proud of his Judaic morosity, and has a sense of humor that resonates with 12-year-old boys and Jonah Goldberg (but I repeat myself). But still, I enjoy listening to him.

But he often lands a clinker, as he did in the June 6 podcast (here) when he averred, at about 1:10:00, that, should the Democrats win in 2020, the right is “certainly going to turn anti-patriotic in the event of his defeat. … So you’re going to have the right hating America and the left hating America.”

I’ve mentioned this before about our own Rob Long, and I’ll say it now about John: I think too many conservative intellectuals have a poor idea of what actual conservatives are like, and of who makes up “the right” out in that vast unexplored and boring portion of America that people who don’t live in New York, Washington, or Los Angeles call home.

Thank G-d we still have VDH.

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  1. GeezerBob Coolidge

    Of all the podcasts available here, the Commentary Daily is about my favorite. It is a minor frustration due to the fact that it stalls at about 8-9 minutes in. I now download it just to get around that.

    Of all the endearments of this particular production, however, are the verbal tics to which John is particularly prone, you know… I have considered creating a “you know” detector to count the number of time is is used (he isnt the only one, just the worst) but feel I really do have something better to do with my time.

    Still, all in all, this is the most enjoyable podcast, you know…

    • #1
    • July 7, 2020, at 11:32 AM PDT
    • 11 likes
  2. Henry Racette Contributor
    Henry Racette

    GeezerBob (View Comment):

    Of all the podcasts available here, the Commentary Daily is about my favorite. It is a minor frustration due to the fact that it stalls at about 8-9 minutes in. I now download it just to get around that.

    Of all the endearments of this particular production, however, are the verbal tics to which John is particularly prone, you know… I have considered creating a “you know” detector to count the number of time is is used (he isnt the only one, just the worst) but feel I really do have something better to do with my time.

    Still, all in all, this is the most enjoyable podcast, you know…

    It is the best podcast in the history of podcasts, ever. (As John himself might say.)

    • #2
    • July 7, 2020, at 11:34 AM PDT
    • 4 likes
  3. Bryan G. Stephens Thatcher
    Bryan G. StephensJoined in the first year of Ricochet Ricochet Charter Member

    Podhoretz is not a decent man. He was very clear on a GLOP podcast that anyone mad at Republicans for lying were stupid. It is clear the holds anyone supporting Trump in total contempt. He is a jerk, who looks down on ordinary people. He is a man who’s career has been handed too him, thanks to Daddy’s influence. Just like Goldburg from Mamma. 

    It is clear he holds me, and flyover country in total and utter contempt. If he and Jonah and Rob had any balls at all, they would engage with people here. But they don’t have the balls to do it, because they are above all that. They don’t want to hear from the people, because they have it all figure out. 

    So, Henry, I strongly disagree. He is bad man, whom is not on the side of liberty or America, because he is against the great mass of patriotic Americans. 

    He is an elitist, of the kind who has hated on me, and my kind my whole life. I ought to know, as a child of the South, how much we are hated by his ilk.

     

    • #3
    • July 7, 2020, at 11:55 AM PDT
    • 20 likes
  4. Gary McVey Contributor
    Gary McVeyJoined in the first year of Ricochet Ricochet Charter Member

    I’m going to play devil’s advocate here. If Trump loses–and we all know he might–what do you think the reaction of the Right will be? What will the pages of Ricochet look like? Is it going to be “Gosh golly, I guess we messed up?” Will it be “Darn it, if we only caught a few breaks?” Will it be, “Oh well, that’s the way democracy works…better luck next time!”

    Or will it be “This stinking country is #$%% through! Everyone’s an LIV or a SJW! Let’s all move to…uh…”. 

    • #4
    • July 7, 2020, at 11:57 AM PDT
    • 22 likes
  5. Hoyacon Member

    the right is “certainly going to turn anti-patriotic in the event of his defeat. … So you’re going to have the right hating America and the left hating America.”

    I acknowledge not hearing this in context, but, in an of itself, it’s very simplistic. A country run by Biden and the Democrats will undoubtedly be unpopular on the right, but are we to believe that opposing the party in power is “anti-patriotic”? Does opposing the party in power mean that one “hates” America? America is a set of ideals and I would expect those on the right to continue to support those ideals regardless of the political landscape.

    • #5
    • July 7, 2020, at 11:57 AM PDT
    • 26 likes
    • This comment has been edited.
  6. Bryan G. Stephens Thatcher
    Bryan G. StephensJoined in the first year of Ricochet Ricochet Charter Member

    Hoyacon (View Comment):

    the right is “certainly going to turn anti-patriotic in the event of his defeat. … So you’re going to have the right hating America and the left hating America.”

    I acknowledge not hearing this in context, but, in an of itself, it’s very simplistic. A country run by Biden and the Democrats will undoubtedly be unpopular on the right, but are we to believe that opposing the party in power is “anti-patriotic”? Does opposing the party in power means that one “hates” America? America is a set of ideals and I would expect those on the right to continue to support those ideals regardless of the political landscape.

    Typical of Podhoretz, to slander those on the right whom he hates. See, HE is a patriot, but us unwashed rubes cannot be, 

    What an ass. 

    • #6
    • July 7, 2020, at 11:59 AM PDT
    • 6 likes
  7. Bryan G. Stephens Thatcher
    Bryan G. StephensJoined in the first year of Ricochet Ricochet Charter Member

    Gary McVey (View Comment):

    I’m going to play devil’s advocate here. If Trump loses–and we all know he might–what do you think the reaction of the Right will be? What will the pages of Ricochet look like? Is it going to be “Gosh golly, I guess we messed up?” Will it be “Darn it, if we only caught a few breaks?” Will it be, “Oh well, that’s the way democracy works…better luck next time!”

    Or will it be “This stinking country is #$%% through! Everyone’s an LIV or a SJW! Let’s all move to…uh…”.

    I will blame the likes of all Never Trumpers.

    He and his ilk will have been traitors who helped to usher in the destruction of the Republic. 

    Remember when Ricochet tried to protect Never Trumpers by banning the term? Good times. Ricochet is fully on the side of the elites that hate the majority of the Republican voters who voted for Trump.

    • #7
    • July 7, 2020, at 12:01 PM PDT
    • 9 likes
  8. Aaron Miller Member
    Aaron MillerJoined in the first year of Ricochet Ricochet Charter Member

    Henry Racette: But he often lands a clinker, as he did in the June 6 podcast (here) when he averred, at about 1:10:00, that, should the Democrats win in 2020, the right is “certainly going to turn anti-patriotic in the event of his defeat. … So you’re going to have the right hating America and the left hating America.”

    I suppose a charitable interpretation is that he expects many conservatives to revert to the old “country is going down the crapper” pessimism of the Obama years. Maybe “anti-patriotic” is a clumsy way of saying unsupportive of the Democratic President in power. 

    All bets are off at this point. I expected Obama’s administration to be worse, honestly. Now, after Democrat behavior this year, I can’t imagine the next Democrat administration being more reserved or less deliberately divisive.

    • #8
    • July 7, 2020, at 12:03 PM PDT
    • 10 likes
  9. brad2971 Inactive

    Gary McVey (View Comment):

    I’m going to play devil’s advocate here. If Trump loses–and we all know he might–what do you think the reaction of the Right will be? What will the pages of Ricochet look like? Is it going to be “Gosh golly, I guess we messed up?” Will it be “Darn it, if we only caught a few breaks?” Will it be, “Oh well, that’s the way democracy works…better luck next time!”

    Or will it be “This stinking country is #$%% through! Everyone’s an LIV or a SJW! Let’s all move to…uh…”.

    I guess that would depend upon what John Podhoretz describes as being “anti-patriotic.” If it’s the last response you gave, and very little more, then I would think Podhoretz is being a little silly with the “anti-patriotic” language. 

    Then again, I suspect large numbers of pro-Trump and Never-Trump conservatives have been taking notes at what the left has done these last few years. If “turnabout is fair play” is a guiding principle of American politics over the last 20-30 years, it will be…interesting to see how capable the Right is at the idea of fomenting social/cultural unrest.

    • #9
    • July 7, 2020, at 12:14 PM PDT
    • 4 likes
  10. Susan Quinn Contributor

    I won’t resort to calling John Podhoretz names, but I don’t listen to the Commentary Podcast. If a podcast really irritates the heck out of me, I stop listening to it. None of them on that production are offering unique information or perspectives that I can’t hear elsewhere. Now I do sometimes listen to someone I disagree with, but it’s rare. I don’t have the time and patience to do that.

    Still, I think John is probably a decent man. I even think I could have a good conversation with him if we avoided politics. But Commentary is off my list.

    • #10
    • July 7, 2020, at 12:21 PM PDT
    • 16 likes
  11. Hoyacon Member

    brad2971 (View Comment):

    Gary McVey (View Comment):

    I’m going to play devil’s advocate here. If Trump loses–and we all know he might–what do you think the reaction of the Right will be? What will the pages of Ricochet look like? Is it going to be “Gosh golly, I guess we messed up?” Will it be “Darn it, if we only caught a few breaks?” Will it be, “Oh well, that’s the way democracy works…better luck next time!”

    Or will it be “This stinking country is #$%% through! Everyone’s an LIV or a SJW! Let’s all move to…uh…”.

    I guess that would depend upon what John Podhoretz describes as being “anti-patriotic.” If it’s the last response you gave, and very little more, then I would think Podhoretz is being a little silly with the “anti-patriotic” language.

    This is speculative, but I suspect that he’s going for an accusation of hypocrisy. If one feels burned by the perception that Trump supporters view “the others” as unpatriotic, it’s a nice turnabout to try to say “See, look at you now.” But, as I said above, that’s a pretty simplistic view.

    • #11
    • July 7, 2020, at 12:22 PM PDT
    • 6 likes
    • This comment has been edited.
  12. Jim Beck Member

    Afternoon Gary,

    You ask a potentially interesting question? What will the response of the right be? I think one might have to address Henry’s question, do our “conservative” thinkers even know who average conservatives are? I see no evidence that John and Jonah do. This is a testable area of speculation, if Trump looses, will the great unwashed Trump yokels say “Shazam we shoulda picked Jeb”, will John and Jonah say “I told you so”. Since Scott Adams was the only well known commenter to pick Trump, my question is why aren’t John and Jonah and Rob curious about the folks who took a big risk and voted for Trump. It seems as if they have little interest in the average Joe. Yea, I know I am only a Hoosier Hick so why would sophisticates like our clever lads have any interest in a hayseed like me.

    • #12
    • July 7, 2020, at 12:24 PM PDT
    • 13 likes
  13. Susan Quinn Contributor

    Jim Beck (View Comment):
    my question is why aren’t John and Jonah and Rob curious about the folks who took a big risk and voted for Trump. It seems as if they have little interest in the average Joe.

    I think there’s plenty of information out there about the hick Trump voters. So I expect they think they already know us. And since we’re wrong, they’re not interested in talking about it.

    • #13
    • July 7, 2020, at 12:28 PM PDT
    • 12 likes
  14. EHerring Coolidge

    I have met Jonah and “J-Pod,” as well as J-Pod’s parents, on NR cruises. They (the younger ones) are all nice and don’t say to your face what they say about nameless, faceless Trump supporters. (I gather that J-Pod and the “Pod-father” don’t agree on Trump.) The most polite conversations are those done face-to-face.

    I think they are wrong and avoid their podcasts because I don’t want to hear their anti-Trump comments and don’t want to dislike them. should we be lucky enough to be together on another NR Cruise, I would enjoy seeing them again. The GLoP gang are a hoot. It is just that we live in different bubbles right now.

    • #14
    • July 7, 2020, at 12:31 PM PDT
    • 15 likes
  15. thelonious Member

    Bryan G. Stephens (View Comment):

    Podhoretz is not a decent man. He was very clear on a GLOP podcast that anyone mad at Republicans for lying were stupid. It is clear the holds anyone supporting Trump in total contempt. He is a jerk, who looks down on ordinary people. He is a man who’s career has been handed too him, thanks to Daddy’s influence. Just like Goldburg from Mamma.

    It is clear he holds me, and flyover country in total and utter contempt. If he and Jonah and Rob had any balls at all, they would engage with people here. But they don’t have the balls to do it, because they are above all that. They don’t want to hear from the people, because they have it all figure out.

    So, Henry, I strongly disagree. He is bad man, whom is not on the side of liberty or America, because he is against the great mass of patriotic Americans.

    He is an elitist, of the kind who has hated on me, and my kind my whole life. I ought to know, as a child of the South, how much we are hated by his ilk.

     

    To be fair to Goldberg and Podhoretz. Their main gig is writing for both The Dispatch and Commentary. They only use Ricochet to promote their podcasts. I doubt they have much time to engage with anybody on this site.

    • #15
    • July 7, 2020, at 12:38 PM PDT
    • 11 likes
  16. Henry Racette Contributor
    Henry Racette

    I can’t get on board with the acrimony expressed by some here regarding John, and I maintain that he’s a decent man in that, for the most part, he shares my values, and I’m told that he treats people well. I find his particular brand of Trump skepticism to be palatable, and think both he and Abe make some effort to keep political reality in perspective and not descend into the fever swamp of self-destructive anti-Trumpianism.

    What I think John and Rob have in common, and a feature they might share with lots of other hyper-educated urban elite conservatives, is that they just assume that normal American conservatism is a shallow veneer over something more cynical and opportunistic. I think they confuse a lack of philosophical sophistication with a lack of sincerity, understating the virtue of common sense, of which America has a great deal. Perhaps it’s because they are creatures of an intellectual world in which they’ve seen that common sense validated by a rich philosophical tradition, and can’t imagine anyone possessing the former without an intimate familiarity of the latter. Or maybe not; I’m just guessing.

    Anyway, I grow increasingly unimpressed with the blinkered intelligentsia, even within our own conservative movement.

    And in one respect, and one respect only, I will echo something Bryan said, above: Rob’s absence from Ricochet is unfortunate and, I think, ill-advised. The excuse, once offered here, that his antipathy toward the President makes his presence here somewhat challenging is lame. I think he’s making a bad business decision, and an ultimately disrespectful one that isn’t compatible with his frequent shilling for more Ricochet memberships.

    • #16
    • July 7, 2020, at 12:40 PM PDT
    • 35 likes
    • This comment has been edited.
  17. Susan Quinn Contributor

    Henry Racette (View Comment):
    What I think John and Rob have in common, and a feature they might share with lots of other hyper-educated urban elite conservatives, is that they just assume that normal American conservatism is a shallow veneer over something more cynical and opportunistic. I think the confuse a lack of philosophical sophistication with a lack of sincerity, understating the virtue of common sense, of which America has a great deal. Perhaps it’s because they are creatures of an intellectual world in which they’ve seen that common sense validated by a rich philosophical tradition, and can’t imagine anyone possessing the former with an intimate familiarity of the latter. Or maybe not; I’m just guessing.

    I think their ire towards people who support Trump is a lot more fundamental than you suggest. The real reason: plain and simple, they hate Trump. Period. They hate all the things that only annoy me–his rudeness, crudeness, twitterspeak, name-calling, and other behaviors. They may give other reasons, but I think it’s that basic.

    • #17
    • July 7, 2020, at 12:45 PM PDT
    • 22 likes
  18. Henry Racette Contributor
    Henry Racette

    Susan Quinn (View Comment):

    Henry Racette (View Comment):
    What I think John and Rob have in common, and a feature they might share with lots of other hyper-educated urban elite conservatives, is that they just assume that normal American conservatism is a shallow veneer over something more cynical and opportunistic. I think the confuse a lack of philosophical sophistication with a lack of sincerity, understating the virtue of common sense, of which America has a great deal. Perhaps it’s because they are creatures of an intellectual world in which they’ve seen that common sense validated by a rich philosophical tradition, and can’t imagine anyone possessing the former with an intimate familiarity of the latter. Or maybe not; I’m just guessing.

    I think their ire towards people who support Trump is a lot more fundamental than you suggest. The real reason: plain and simple, they hate Trump. Period. They hate all the things that only annoy me–his rudeness, crudeness, twitterspeak, name-calling, and other behaviors. They may give other reasons, but I think it’s that basic.

    Susan, that may well be true. But there’s something more: each has expressed an odd cynicism about conservatives writ large, and not only Trump supporters.

    I think they understand conservatism, but don’t understands conservatives.

    • #18
    • July 7, 2020, at 12:47 PM PDT
    • 18 likes
  19. Hoyacon Member

    Henry Racette (View Comment):

    What I think John and Rob have in common, and a feature they might share with lots of other hyper-educated urban elite conservatives, is that they just assume that normal American conservatism is a shallow veneer over something more cynical and opportunistic. I think they confuse a lack of philosophical sophistication with a lack of sincerity, understating the virtue of common sense, of which America has a great deal. Perhaps it’s because they are creatures of an intellectual world in which they’ve seen that common sense validated by a rich philosophical tradition, and can’t imagine anyone possessing the former without an intimate familiarity of the latter. Or maybe not; I’m just guessing.

    Anyway, I grow increasingly unimpressed with the blinkered intelligentsia, even within our own conservative movement.

    I’ve already gotten into my feelings about Podhoretz’ “anti-patriotic”comment, which I think is a failure of reasoning, not of being blinkered. But to address the issue of knowledge of “normal” conservatives, I’ve long wondered whether pundits/columnists make generalized assessments of who is “out there” based on the critical (hate?) mail that they likely get. We all know that there are some troubled, even vile, people everywhere on the political spectrum, but a lot of us who interact with others daily (including at Ricochet) understand how rare those people are.

    • #19
    • July 7, 2020, at 12:53 PM PDT
    • 6 likes
    • This comment has been edited.
  20. DonG (Biden is compromised) Coolidge

    I gave it a listen and the statement shows a lack of understand of what patriotism is and how Trump voters think. Two wrongs in one statement.

    • #20
    • July 7, 2020, at 1:19 PM PDT
    • 11 likes
  21. Jim Beck Member

    Afternoon Henry,

    At the end of your post you said thank G-d for VDH. If you listen to the Classicist Podcast you might remember that VDH said that when he told his father that he had graduated from college, his father said that what he really need was to learn how to weld and that he better get on with teaching himself. That little vignette exposes the gulf between VDH, us and our clever lads. In my favorite VDH book Field without Dreams, he and his brother spend 10 years trying to save the farm. As VDH has mentioned in other podcasts, in 1983 Greek raisins were propped up with a $400 subsidy, and that cratered the price of raisins and drove all the raisin farmers in Selma out of business, and destroyed the community that lived and worked there. The folks from the H W Bush admin said to the farmers that this challenge would make them leaner and tougher more efficient. Free trade idolatry and heartlessness are one of the many flawed false idols of “conservatism”. So for 10 years the two brothers try new crops of table grapes and peaches, it all is for nothing. VDH worked with folks John and Jonah never will, foremen who organize field crews, farm coop leadership, govt admin, local and national, and all of the bankers, ag promoters, and folks who deal in the hardware of farming. VDH would see that wisdom is not linked with one’s credentials. VDH not only lives among the deplorables but he also listens and is curious about these deplorables. He notes that in Fresno all the Hispanics who speak English support Trump.

    So when John wonders if the deplorables will hate American as the left, he only exposes how tone deaf he is. Did Catholics hate American after the court invented a right to abortion? No, they mourned. The Tea Party wasn’t a party of hate. If Biden wins the deplorables won’t hate America, they don’t identify the leaders with America and Americans. 

    • #21
    • July 7, 2020, at 1:40 PM PDT
    • 33 likes
  22. Kephalithos Member

    If Trump loses, the message among conservatives won’t be, “F@#& this rotten country!” It’ll be, “We’re done for! Run for the hills! America is dead!” . . . which is a different sentiment.

    I like John Podhoretz . . . probably because I’m a hoity-toity intellectual conservative, and John uses big words. But I’ll say this to the self-proclaimed “yokels” in this thread: Being a hoity-toity intellectual conservative isn’t all that great. It means that I feel out of place everywhere I go.

    • #22
    • July 7, 2020, at 1:42 PM PDT
    • 12 likes
  23. Hoyacon Member

    Kephalithos (View Comment):

    If Trump loses, the message among conservatives won’t be, “F@#& this rotten country!” It’ll be, “We’re done for! Run for the hills! America is dead!” . . . which is a different sentiment.

    I like John Podhoretz . . . probably because I’m a hoity-toity intellectual conservative, and John uses big words. But I’ll say this to the self-proclaimed “yokels” in this thread: Being a hoity-toity intellectual conservative isn’t all that great. It means that I feel out of place everywhere I go.

    Head for D.C. and the think tank life. You will never be alone.

    • #23
    • July 7, 2020, at 1:44 PM PDT
    • 4 likes
  24. Kephalithos Member

    Hoyacon (View Comment): I’ve already gotten into my feelings about Podhoretz’ “anti-patriotic”comment, which I think is a failure of reasoning, not of being blinkered. But to address the issue of knowledge of “normal” conservatives, I’ve long wondered whether pundits/columnists make generalized assessments of who is “out there” based on the critical (hate?) mail that they likely get. We all know that there are some troubled, even vile, people everywhere on the political spectrum, but a lot of us who interact with others daily (including at Ricochet) understand how rare those people are.

    Yes. It’s hard to look at the comments section and think, “Gee! What a lovely, good-natured, and sophisticated lot those Americans are!”

    • #24
    • July 7, 2020, at 1:44 PM PDT
    • 6 likes
  25. Kephalithos Member

    Hoyacon (View Comment):

    Kephalithos (View Comment):

    If Trump loses, the message among conservatives won’t be, “F@#& this rotten country!” It’ll be, “We’re done for! Run for the hills! America is dead!” . . . which is a different sentiment.

    I like John Podhoretz . . . probably because I’m a hoity-toity intellectual conservative, and John uses big words. But I’ll say this to the self-proclaimed “yokels” in this thread: Being a hoity-toity intellectual conservative isn’t all that great. It means that I feel out of place everywhere I go.

    Head for D.C. and the think tank life. You will never be alone.

    Eh. I haven’t the energy or self-discipline.

    • #25
    • July 7, 2020, at 1:45 PM PDT
    • 1 like
  26. Hoyacon Member

    Kephalithos (View Comment):

    Hoyacon (View Comment):

    Kephalithos (View Comment):

    If Trump loses, the message among conservatives won’t be, “F@#& this rotten country!” It’ll be, “We’re done for! Run for the hills! America is dead!” . . . which is a different sentiment.

    I like John Podhoretz . . . probably because I’m a hoity-toity intellectual conservative, and John uses big words. But I’ll say this to the self-proclaimed “yokels” in this thread: Being a hoity-toity intellectual conservative isn’t all that great. It means that I feel out of place everywhere I go.

    Head for D.C. and the think tank life. You will never be alone.

    Eh. I haven’t the energy or self-discipline.

    It’s your call, but lack of those traits is not disqualifying in Washington.

    • #26
    • July 7, 2020, at 1:47 PM PDT
    • 10 likes
  27. Aaron Miller Member
    Aaron MillerJoined in the first year of Ricochet Ricochet Charter Member

    Henry Racette (View Comment):
    Perhaps it’s because they are creatures of an intellectual world in which they’ve seen that common sense validated by a rich philosophical tradition, and can’t imagine anyone possessing the former without an intimate familiarity of the latter. Or maybe not; I’m just guessing.

    Perhaps it’s because they take comments on Twitter and other social media too seriously. Maybe they read calm and lengthy commentary from Beltway Republicans, but only angry and impulsive attacks from Trump fans who treat Jonah and John more as sport than as peers.

    • #27
    • July 7, 2020, at 1:52 PM PDT
    • 9 likes
  28. Jules PA Member

    Henry Racette (View Comment):
    Rob’s absence from Ricochet is unfortunate

    But we have LILEKS. 😁

    • #28
    • July 7, 2020, at 2:00 PM PDT
    • 19 likes
  29. Douglas Pratt Coolidge
    Douglas PrattJoined in the first year of Ricochet Ricochet Charter Member

    Jules PA (View Comment):

    Henry Racette (View Comment):
    Rob’s absence from Ricochet is unfortunate

    But we have LILEKS. 😁

    What you said. In spades.

     

    • #29
    • July 7, 2020, at 2:06 PM PDT
    • 10 likes
  30. Jules PA Member

    Douglas Pratt (View Comment):

    Jules PA (View Comment):

    Henry Racette (View Comment):
    Rob’s absence from Ricochet is unfortunate

    But we have LILEKS. 😁

    What you said. In spades.

     

    The world would be better if more were like Lileks. @jameslileks

    • #30
    • July 7, 2020, at 2:08 PM PDT
    • 9 likes