Trump2020: A Response to One Objection

 

One objection to re-electing President Trump in 2020 is that, because he exhibits so many of the personal traits which conservatives have traditionally condemned, his election by Republicans casts the latter as hypocrites and removes character as a dimension on which future Republicans can differentiate their candidates from those of the Democrats.

While I made this argument during the primaries leading up to the 2016 election, I think it is no longer relevant. Republicans have already elected Trump; failing to re-elect him will not in any way redeem Republicans. We live in a hostile, left-leaning media environment, and there is no voice on the left that will speak well of Republicans for rejecting President Trump in 2020. That would require a degree of charity the left is completely unwilling to extend.

Whatever damage to the moral standing of Republicans that the election of President Trump can do has been done, and nothing will reverse it or make it significantly worse. Those who think otherwise are crediting the left with more grace than there is any reason to believe it possesses.

I continue to believe that, on balance, the arguments in favor of re-electing President Trump remain compelling.

 

Published in Elections
Tags:

This post was promoted to the Main Feed by a Ricochet Editor at the recommendation of Ricochet members. Like this post? Want to comment? Join Ricochet’s community of conservatives and be part of the conversation. Join Ricochet for Free.

There are 125 comments.

Become a member to join the conversation. Or sign in if you're already a member.
  1. cdor Member
    cdor
    @cdor

    Jerry Giordano (Arizona Patrio… (View Comment):

    Petty Boozswha (View Comment):

    Aaron Miller (View Comment):

    Jerry Giordano (Arizona Patrio… (View Comment):
    Fourth, if we had confidence after a thorough investigation of the facts that the President clearly did not commit obstruction of justice, we would so state. Based on the facts and the applicable legal standards, however, we are unable to reach that judgment. The evidence we obtained about the President’s actions and intent presents difficult issues that prevent us from conclusively determining that no criminal conduct occurred.

    Reworded for clarity: “We cannot prove that the President did not commit a crime.”

    Well, that was never his job. This is malpractice.

    The exposition at the end is also beyond his role. Mueller is a political hack, not a lawyer.

    If he cared about rule of law, Mueller would have called attention to the blatant FISA abuses. Even if he found cause to continue the investigation, it was his duty to point out that the investigation’s catalyst was fraudulent.

    I’ve read this several times in this thread in various forms. It’s wrong. Mueller was not hired to investigate some schmoe from the sticks, he was hired as a special prosecutor with a special mandate – to see if there was any fire behind the billows of smoke Trump was putting out, to the Russian Ambassador and Lester Holt, among others, about the continuation and deepening of his 25 years long relationships with Russian crooks and malfactors. Mueller’s office was the successor to the Independent Counsel office, who’s mission was to do more than just charge or not charge.

    I think that you are incorrect about this. The Mueller report addresses his responsibility in the very first paragraph to both Vol. I (on collusion) and Vol. II (on obstruction):

    This report is submitted to the Attorney General pursuant to 28 C.F.R. § 600.8(c), which states that, “[a]t the conclusion of the Special Counsel’s work, he … shall provide the Attorney General a confidential report explaining the prosecution or declination decisions [the Special Counsel] reached.”

    So Mueller was supposed to make prosecution or declination decisions, then report his reasons. He failed to do so with respect to the obstruction charge; declined to make the obstruction decision on the basis of the governing guidelines (as quoted in my prior comment); and used a different and inappropriate standard of guilty until proven innocent by “clear” evidence. Then, he didn’t even make a decision under this improper standard.

    Mueller apparently wants Trump to prove he did not obstruct, because his fellow prosecutors couldn’t prove he did. This is the way of lawfare in the Age of Trump. If they can’t find a criminal charge to make, than they just enumerate all the things they think are bad, just not bad enough to charge as a crime, state those things publicly, and walk away. Heck of a deal…this new fangled prosecution stuff.

    • #91
  2. Petty Boozswha Inactive
    Petty Boozswha
    @PettyBoozswha

    Poor, poor Trump.

    • #92
  3. Gary Robbins Member
    Gary Robbins
    @GaryRobbins

    EJHill (View Comment):

    Petty Boozswha: Mueller was not hired to investigate some schmoe from the sticks, he was hired as a special prosecutor with a special mandate – to see if there was any fire behind the billows of smoke Trump was putting out, to the Russian Ambassador and Lester Holt, among others, about the continuation and deepening of his 25 year long relationships with Russian crooks and malfactors.

    Exactly. And he found NOTHING. What you’re pinning your hopes on has absolutely nothing to do with Russia.

    Actually, I think that he found something, but it did not rise to the level of a conspiracy whose elements would have to be proved beyond a reasonable doubt.  

    • #93
  4. Gary Robbins Member
    Gary Robbins
    @GaryRobbins

    Petty Boozswha (View Comment):

    cdor (View Comment):
    That’s funny. Do you think that could ever happen? Do you have anyone in mind? Are you expecting Trump to walk away? Just how badly do you want to lose? How much of our Constitutional Republic would you be willing to give up to the socialists in order to have Trump out of office, because what you are calling for will lead to a victory by one of those socialists running as a Democrat.

    I’ve said I support Gov. Larry Hogan, but people on this thread are tired of those arguments. I won’t belabor it. And no, I do not expect Trump to walk away until he’s doused with a bucket of tears.

    I would prefer Maryland Governor Larry Hogan, but he hasn’t declared himself as a candidate (yet).  So by default I support Bill Weld.  I was astonished to read a favorable article about Bill Weld today in The Resurgent.  The closing paragraph:

    If Republicans want to avoid an electoral blowout of epic proportions next year, they had better uncircle the wagons from around Donald Trump and find a candidate who has not lost the trust of the public. So far, Weld is the only Republican who has had the temerity to stand up to Trump and may be the only conservative alternative. If Republicans continue to stand by Donald Trump to the bitter end, they deserve the drubbing that they are about to receive.

    https://theresurgent.com/2019/04/19/why-conservatives-shouldnt-rule-out-bill-weld/

     

     

    • #94
  5. Randy Webster Inactive
    Randy Webster
    @RandyWebster

    Gary Robbins (View Comment):
    If Republicans want to avoid an electoral blowout of epic proportions next year, they had better uncircle the wagons from around Donald Trump and find a candidate who has not lost the trust of the public. So far, Weld is the only Republican who has had the temerity to stand up to Trump and may be the only conservative alternative. If Republicans continue to stand by Donald Trump to the bitter end, they deserve the drubbing that they are about to receive.

    The guy probably predicted a Hillary win.

    • #95
  6. Petty Boozswha Inactive
    Petty Boozswha
    @PettyBoozswha

    Randy Webster (View Comment):

    Gary Robbins (View Comment):
    If Republicans want to avoid an electoral blowout of epic proportions next year, they had better uncircle the wagons from around Donald Trump and find a candidate who has not lost the trust of the public. So far, Weld is the only Republican who has had the temerity to stand up to Trump and may be the only conservative alternative. If Republicans continue to stand by Donald Trump to the bitter end, they deserve the drubbing that they are about to receive.

    The guy probably predicted a Hillary win.

    Trump predicted a Hillary win.

    • #96
  7. Randy Webster Inactive
    Randy Webster
    @RandyWebster

    Petty Boozswha (View Comment):

    Randy Webster (View Comment):

    Gary Robbins (View Comment):
    If Republicans want to avoid an electoral blowout of epic proportions next year, they had better uncircle the wagons from around Donald Trump and find a candidate who has not lost the trust of the public. So far, Weld is the only Republican who has had the temerity to stand up to Trump and may be the only conservative alternative. If Republicans continue to stand by Donald Trump to the bitter end, they deserve the drubbing that they are about to receive.

    The guy probably predicted a Hillary win.

    Trump predicted a Hillary win.

    Trump was wrong, but he isn’t a pundit predicting a massive Democrat blowout in 2020.  How many times must these guys be proven wrong before they’re ignored? 

    Oops.  Just noticed it was Gary.

    • #97
  8. Joshua Bissey Inactive
    Joshua Bissey
    @TheSockMonkey

    Gary Robbins (View Comment):

    Joshua Bissey (View Comment):

    So a constant refrain of “read the report,” and not a single detail of how a crime was committed. Just telling people to read a 400-page document.

    Sounds like someone with no specifics to point to.

    Have you read the report?

    Not a question you’ve positioned yourself to ask. You’re the one disagreeing with the Attorney General’s decision. You’re the one making claims of what’s in the report. You can either back up your assertions, or content yourself with being disregarded. 

    • #98
  9. GrannyDude Member
    GrannyDude
    @GrannyDude

     

    Randy Webster (View Comment):

    Henry Racette: We live in a hostile, left-leaning media environment, and there is no voice on the left that will speak well of Republicans for rejecting President Trump

    There is no voice on the left that will speak well of Republicans unless they quit being Republicans.

    Absolutely not. I am an American. I am a Conservative. I am a Republican.

    I am against Trump who has Obstructed Justice, and Abused his Power.

    Read the Mueller Report.

     

    Gary, I think you need to work on your reading comprehension, unless you consider yourself a voice on the left.

    On the other hand, the Capitalizations are cute. Sort of like reading Winnie the Pooh. 

    • #99
  10. Gary Robbins Member
    Gary Robbins
    @GaryRobbins

    Randy Webster (View Comment):

    Petty Boozswha (View Comment):

    Randy Webster (View Comment):

    Gary Robbins (View Comment):
    If Republicans want to avoid an electoral blowout of epic proportions next year, they had better uncircle the wagons from around Donald Trump and find a candidate who has not lost the trust of the public. So far, Weld is the only Republican who has had the temerity to stand up to Trump and may be the only conservative alternative. If Republicans continue to stand by Donald Trump to the bitter end, they deserve the drubbing that they are about to receive.

    The guy probably predicted a Hillary win.

    Trump predicted a Hillary win.

    Trump was wrong, but he isn’t a pundit predicting a massive Democrat blowout in 2020. How many times must these guys be proven wrong before they’re ignored?

    Oops. Just noticed it was Gary.

    Actually I was quoting The Resurgent.

    I agree with the writer.  The hyperlink is at Comment #94.

    • #100
  11. Weeping Inactive
    Weeping
    @Weeping

    Gary Robbins (View Comment):

    Weeping (View Comment):

    Gary Robbins (View Comment):
    Richard Nixon who resigned before being impeached by the entire House and being convicted by the Senate.

    Do we know for certain that he would have been impeached and convicted? That’s a sincere question. I was only 6 or so when Watergate happened and definitely wasn’t paying any attention to politics then. Nor have I done a lot of research on the subject since then.

    So the question is an honest one: how certain was it that Nixon would have been impeached and convicted had he chosen to ride the situation out? Did he resign because he was certain Congress would remove him from office, or did he resign simply because he felt it would be best for the country if he did – that fighting to stay would cause severe damage to the public trust and he didn’t want to do that?

    Of course I am not positive that Nixon would have been impeached and convicted. There could have been the SMOD. However, Republican members of the House Judiciary Committee who had voted against the articles of impeachment, such as Trent Lott, came out for impeachment after the release of the smoking gun tape. Barry Goldwater told Nixon that Nixon had only a dozen votes in the Senate. So, I think that it was likely beyond a reasonable doubt that Nixon would have been impeached and then removed. (A reasonable doubt is a doubt based on reason.)

    LOL! Love that line!

    Thanks for taking the time to respond, Gary. Sounds like it was definitely a case of resign or be forcefully removed from office. 

    • #101
  12. MarciN Member
    MarciN
    @MarciN

    EJHill (View Comment):
    First of all, if you cheer the release of the Mueller Report you are definitely not on the side of the Rule of Law. When you fail to indict, when you don’t have the evidence, it is incumbent for the prosecution to keep one’s mouth shut.

    Alan Dershowitz has also made this point. 

    To continue to talk about the accusation is to further tarnish the accused’s reputation, which is punishment and suffering heaped upon an innocent person. 

    The entire report should not exist. Only a slip of paper that says, “We found no evidence of lawbreaking.” 

    • #102
  13. MarciN Member
    MarciN
    @MarciN

    Devin Nunes is going after the perpetrators of the Mueller “investigation” and the harm they have done and the laws they have broken.

    Representative Nunes needs all the support he can get. As far as I can tell, there’s no real Republican Party in existence that will function to back him up in any way. He is really on his own in this.

    Now’s the time to send an e-mail to someone who is doing real work at his own personal risk.

    • #103
  14. Mim526 Inactive
    Mim526
    @Mim526

    Some specifics from a non-attorney for benefit of those who’ve mentioned lack of them in this thread….

    The element Mueller’s team most wanted to hang their hat on (and most serious if I’m understanding good, neutral attorneys like Andy McCarthy correctly) to support Donald Trump’s obstructing justice was their contention he ordered White House Counsel Don McGahn to fire Mueller, then to issue a memo for the record in the wake of NYT/WaPo reporting Trump had attempted to fire Mueller.

    From p. 118 in this electronic copy of the Mueller report (h/t @cliffordabrown):

    The President’s repeated efforts to get McGahn to create a record denying that the President had directed him to remove the Special Counsel would qualify as an obstructive act if it had the natural tendency to constrain McGahn from testifying truthfully or to undermine his credibility as a potential witness if he testified consistently with his memory, rather than with what the record said.

    There is some evidence that at the time the New York Times and Washington Post stories were published in late January 2018, the President believed the stories were wrong and that he had never told McGahn to have Rosenstein remove the Special Counsel. The President correctly understood that McGahn had not told the President directly that he planned to resign. In addition, the President told Priebus and Porter that he had not sought to terminate the Special Counsel, and in the Oval Office meeting with McGahn, the President said, “I never said to fire Mueller. I never said ‘fire.”‘ That evidence could indicate that the President was not attempting to persuade McGahn to change his story but was instead offering his own-but different-recollection of the substance of his June 2017 conversations with McGahn and McGahn’s reaction to them.

    Other evidence cuts against that understanding of the President’s conduct.

    Part of the evidence the Mueller team believes to be contrary to the non-obstruction argument (italicized emphasis mine):

    In addition, the President’s subsequent denials that he had told McGahn to have the Special Counsel removed were carefully worded. When first asked about the New York Times story, the President said, “Fake news, folks. Fake news. A typical New York Times fake story.” And when the President spoke with McGahn in the Oval Office, he focused on whether he had used the word “fire,” saying, “I never said to fire Mueller. I never said ‘fire”‘ and “Did I say the word ‘fire’?” The President’s assertion in the Oval Office meeting that he had never directed McGahn to have the Special Counsel removed thus runs counter to the evidence.

    …the President’s efforts to have McGahn write a letter “for our records” approximately ten days after the stories had come out-well past the typical time to issue a correction for a news story-indicates the President was not focused solely on a press strategy

    (to be cont.)

    • #104
  15. Mim526 Inactive
    Mim526
    @Mim526

    (Continued from comment #104)

    Amid a recounting of a handful of instances President Trump attempts to have McGahn correct the record are these two points:

    President thought McGahn had leaked the story, and directed Porter to have McGahn create a record denying that the President had tried to fire the Special Counsel

    …Additional evidence of the President’s intent may be gleaned from the fact that his counsel was sufficiently alarmed by the prospect of the President’s meeting with McGahn that he called McGahn’s counsel and said that McGahn could not resign no matter what happened in the Oval Office that day.

    The report closes up the section on obstruction of justice via McGahn with this:

    Finally, as noted above, the President brought up the Special Counsel investigation in his Oval Office meeting with McGahn and criticized him for telling this Office about the June 17, 2017 events. The President’s statements reflect his understanding-and his displeasure-that those events would be part of an obstruction-of-justice inquiry.

    Our system of justice defaults on the side of innocent then presents both sides, which I assume is why the DOJ has a policy of not commenting on cases they don’t indict and let’s the court filings speak for themselves.

    What we have here is a report that tries to allege obstruction of justice by a POTUS without benefit of a defense attorney to “object” on basis of things like I’ve italicized.  Donald Trump is not formally indicted/charged, yet is brought up on charges via a one-sided report that normally would not see the light of day.

    We are to believe the president’s assertions run counter to evidence because they are “carefully worded” and his actions because they are not within a certain (unspecified) number of days.  That his personal counsel’s request for McGahn to remain cannot be to simply avoid inaccurate inferences which may harm POTUS.

    We are not expected to notice that were a man innocent of the allegations and aware of how a special counsel could consume his presidency yet had cooperated extensively, he would be anxious not to be quoted otherwise and wish to correct the record.  And we definitely are not supposed to realize a POTUS who suspects his WH Counsel of leaking might want to fire said counsel, or to note that WH Counsel could have at least issued a memo for the record stating his boss’ differing account.

    And that right there is the underlying problem, isn’t it:  Trump is POTUS and some people want him gone so badly they’re willing to do much more than vote to remove him.

    Sidebar: One-sided presentation problem is probably a reason why AG Barr commented specifically on the no obstruction charges angle.  I get why he issued this report given the subject and its having been 2 years in the forefront of public consciousness thanks to a press anxious to eject this POTUS.

    • #105
  16. cdor Member
    cdor
    @cdor

    @mim526 well done. I would just like to mention one small thing…

    If not for the fact that Trump waived both attorney/client and executive privilege, Mueller would not have any of this information from McGhan. The SC was allowed unprecedented access into the inner workings and thoughts of PDJT and his associates. Yet, after being freely given all this information, some on his team and everyone of the Dems and their media and the ankle biting NT’s still have the gall to accuse Trump of obstruction. Obstruction, no less, of a manufactured non crime. Yes, @pettyboozswha…Poor Donald Trump. But never fear, he’s got the stones to flick these little people out of his way.

    • #106
  17. Joshua Bissey Inactive
    Joshua Bissey
    @TheSockMonkey

    Gary Robbins (View Comment):

    EJHill (View Comment):

    Gary Robbins: The overwhelming evidence of Obstruction of Justice makes denying the renomination of Trump morally imperative.

    So overwhelming Mueller failed to indict. I believe James Comey calls that “prosecutorial discretion.”

    Presidents cannot be indicted while they are in office. But they must be held accountable. Censure? Denial of renomination? What is your solution?

    Hillary Clinton intentionally, repeatedly, systematically, exposed classified information to foreign powers, and told multiple lies to cover it up. All of which is documented. Yet you object to calls for her imprisonment. 

    The President allegedly obstructed an investigation into a fabricated “crime,” and you want him punished in some way?

    • #107
  18. Eridemus Coolidge
    Eridemus
    @Eridemus

    The best summation I have seen (from a typical ordinary person at the end of a news report):

    Well, we couldn’t get Trump on actually doing something illegal, so let’s just say it was illegal for him to be pissed that we tried to get him for something we know he didn’t do.

    • #108
  19. Henry Racette Member
    Henry Racette
    @HenryRacette

    Thank you all for the 100+ comments.

    I posted this short post and then, as I saw the comment count increase rapidly, decided to ignore it. The point of the post was pretty simple: there is little to no “upside,” in terms of Republican moral standing, to refusing to re-elect the President, given that the left received all the ammunition it could use from the 2016 election.

    That’s it. All this stuff about “obstruction” or “feeling good” about the President is beside the point of the post. It comes up every time a post contains the word “Trump,” in its title and, because of that, I’ve decided to keep Trump-related posts short and focused on a single topic, to avoid getting bogged down.

    No one has contradicted the thesis of this post, that we regain no respectability from jettisoning Trump now. That’s all I’m interested in asserting here.

    • #109
  20. Petty Boozswha Inactive
    Petty Boozswha
    @PettyBoozswha

    Since we’re already filthy we might as well remain filthy.

    • #110
  21. Henry Racette Member
    Henry Racette
    @HenryRacette

    Petty Boozswha (View Comment):

    Since we’re already filthy we might as well remain filthy.

    I would argue that we aren’t filthy. We elected a man to do a job. It isn’t a pretty job; we aren’t living in a pretty age.

    When it comes to politics, I think we never have.

    • #111
  22. Skyler Coolidge
    Skyler
    @Skyler

    Gary Robbins (View Comment):

    The overwhelming evidence of Obstruction of Justice makes denying the renomination of Trump morally imperative.

    You’re a lawyer?

    • #112
  23. Basil Fawlty Member
    Basil Fawlty
    @BasilFawlty

    Henry Racette: Whatever damage to the moral standing of Republicans

    The what?

    • #113
  24. Bob Thompson Member
    Bob Thompson
    @BobThompson

    I am established on the premise that the so-called predicate for the initiation of the counter-intelligence inquiry into Trump Campaign personnel and activities was part of the ‘insurance policy’ and was considered necessary in order to insulate existing Obama Administration intelligence officials from being revealed as partisan through subsequent investigation. That inquiry was thus illegal on its face. 

    Since President Trump has complete awareness of this, but also has to face what can happen regarding impeachment if he acted too precipitously, actions taken by his administrations against the SC inquiry rest on mitigating factors (the inquiry itself is based on criminal acts) and are excusable under those circumstances. I see nothing that should be considered obstruction by the POTUS. The next eighteen months of DoJ under AJ Barr will tell me if I have it right.

    I’m not wasting my time reading the Weissmann Report.

    • #114
  25. Mrs. Ink Inactive
    Mrs. Ink
    @MrsInk

    Gary Robbins (View Comment):

    Fake John/Jane Galt (View Comment):

    Gary Robbins (View Comment):

    EJHill (View Comment):

    David French read the Mueller Report and instantly gravitated toward Bob Dole, who in his flailing presidential campaign against Bill Clinton in 1996 asked, “Where’s the outrage?”

    The truth is, of course, that there has never been any evidence that the voting public has ever rewarded Republicans for fragging their own in a pique of moral indignation. And it has always been abundantly clear that such actions have always been unilateral. Even with the full knowledge of history the Kennedy boys and their offspring are treated like American royalty. The Harry Reids come to Congress poor and leave multimillionaires. They can have gun-running AGs and nobody bats an eye.

    And so French, Kristol, Williamson & Company continue to rail against the voters who dare question the strategic nature of knee-jerk capitulation. They hate the fact that large swaths of the population looked them in the eye, asked “Just whose side are you on?” and came to the conclusion it ain’t them.

    I am on the side of the Rule of Law, and after reading about Trump’s Obstruction of Justice, Trump has forfeited his claim to renomination.

    There is your issue Gary, you want Rule of Law to drag down those you do not like. The rest of us sort of like Justice, where people do not get drug down for resisting being convicted of crimes they do not commit.

    If a lawyer lies and obstructs justice, he or she will be disbarred.

    If a President repeatedly lies and obstructs Justice, he should be removed from office. I would prefer removal by being rejected by his or her party. If not, the party should be removed by the voters.

    Read the Mueller Report.

    The Mueller report determined that no crime was committed. if no crime was committed, there was nothing to obstruct. It is unreasonable to expect any one to help their attackers.

    There is a reason that Wrath, Pride, and Envy are deadly sins. Your hatred of President Trump is making you look unhinged; I find it appalling that a a member of a state bar does not accept the concept that a person is innocent until proven guilty.

    • #115
  26. DonG Coolidge
    DonG
    @DonG

    Henry Racette:

    I continue to believe that, on balance, the arguments in favor of re-electing President Trump remain compelling.

    More than ever.  We suspected that there was a corrupt swamp of “deep state” elitists and that has been confirmed.  We need at least 4 more years of de-swamping.

    • #116
  27. DonG Coolidge
    DonG
    @DonG

    Gary Robbins (View Comment):
    Read the Mueller Report.

    No point.  Mueller is a hack and his report is crap.  He has been a mixture of corruption and incompetent since his Whitey Bulger days.

    • #117
  28. DonG Coolidge
    DonG
    @DonG

    Mim526 (View Comment):

    There is your issue Gary, you want Rule of Law to drag down those you do not like. The rest of us sort of like Justice, where people do not get drug down for resisting being convicted of crimes they do not commit.

    Well put, @fakejohnjanegault. What really concerns me that seems to be getting lost in so much of the reporting/discussion is the a) abuse of power by federal agencies in “investigating” Trump, including the Mueller team’s out of line prosecutorial actions, and

    Exactly!  If you don’t believe our country’s founding principle was the rejection of Tyranny, then read the Declaration of Independence.   It is right there.  It always has been.

    • #118
  29. DonG Coolidge
    DonG
    @DonG

    Gary Robbins (View Comment):
    Have you read the report?

    Have you read the Declaration of Independence?  Google can find it for you.  If it is too long, jump ahead to the Usurpations ;)

    • #119
  30. DonG Coolidge
    DonG
    @DonG

    cdor (View Comment):
    They got some kind of ghost copy from the IT outfit that the DNC hired

    Undervalued point here.  The FBI trusted the “Russians did it” conclusion of Team Hillary.  Without the original hardware there is no way to recover the information that would provide evidence.  Analysis by the Forensicator proves that the DNC emails were stolen on a thumb drive.  Maybe after all this time you think Brennan and Comey are above lying and you still believe the “17 agencies” BS.  If so, your TDS is beyond recovery.

    • #120
Become a member to join the conversation. Or sign in if you're already a member.