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ACF Critic Series #19: Jody Bottum, ‘The 13th Warrior’
Here’s an unusual podcast. An epic, a flop, a small gem — Michael Crichton and John McTiernan’s The 13th Warrior, or Beowulf meets a Muslim poet. Jody Bottum and I talk about this rare look at the origins of civilization, freedom and empire, faith and fatalism. It stars Antonio Banderas; Omar Sharif has a good cameo in it. He hated the movie — everyone did. But your loyal critics are here to rescue it.
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Published in Podcasts
@jimbeck, You may well be right that the appeal of familial responsibility is gone. But, I think the Army does a pretty good job of imbuing a sense of living up to the standard of excellence that previous generations established. Examples are Regimental affiliations, The Ranger Creed, and St. Michael’s Airborne Association.
It ain’t “Lo, there…” but I’ll bet dimes to donuts that there’s a whole lot of tabbed guys that, like me, recite the Ranger Creed to themselves every morning.
I can’t speak for boss ( @bossmongo ), but from my own experience, most young people, coming into military service, have very little family military history in their background. If they are from a large metropolitan environment, there is usually no family history and limited social connection outside of whatever clique/gang/tribe they associated with. For many young service members it will be the first time they have consider themselves citizens of the U.S. and what that entails. For many it will be the first time they have felt pride in themselves and their country. They will form a “blood bond” within their squad or unit, that gets stronger the closer they are to actual combat. They may not be to crazy about the idea of killing and dying for Uncle Sam, but they will bleed, kill and die for each other without a second thought, and it has been an honor to serve with and help train them.
@titustechera is there anyone you have not pissed off yet? Keep up the good work and keep us thinking.
That man looks really pissed
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CejlFYX3PSw
Then you should be ashamed of yourself for not taking the criticism I have offered! Instead, you redouble your efforts! How un-American of you! Further, since I have offered criticism & you hold it is only Americans who can do so, I guess I’m already half-American. Not bad for a few minutes’ work!
Thanks–that’s high praise, indeed!
Come to think of it, could I interest you in my Die Hard podcast! There’s a movie I’m particularly fond of…
@titustechera, I’ve been on Ricochet since its inception. I generally like your work even if I don’t comment on your posts because I lack the time. As it turns out, this was my good fortune. Your tone is condescending, arrogant and insulting. You scold rather than engage.
Your invective and incivility does not belong on Ricochet. I will take your advice and avoid you in the future. You richly deserve my first ever flag. Good by.
Concur. “It’s about the man next to you, and that’s it.”
Why yes you can, and Die Hard is a Christmas movie.
You offered none.
Nor instruction.
You offered no rebuttal – not to me or Bryan – didn’t even try to explain your simple formulation.
While I might be ashamed of a great many things – not paying attention to your vapid assertions isn’t one of them.
I guess you didn’t read the essay.
I said it was a unique component to American Exceptionalism, that doesn’t mean every American can do it. Furthermore, since anyone really can become an American, that also means you too can adopt these unique components.
Start with “You Suck”; you seem to be having the hardest time with that one.
If you think your addresses so far have been an invitation to me to read your other work, this is delusion beyond ridicule! Let me then reiterate, in plain English: Could you please go away? Haven’t we both had enough entertainment? We all need to pay some tribute to the dark passions in our souls. That exceptional interlude seems to me to have been accomplished already. Let us go back to normal: I do not force my conversation on you–do likewise!
Cannot you take that nice lady’s advice: Flag me & go away? What perfect morality! Tell me off & leave in a huff! Exemplary! I, for one, prefer the fainting couch variety of outrage to the “fight on the beaches, fight in the comment sections, links to extra-curricular activity” variety. Clearly, you’re not a fan, nor a friend. We could let it go at that!
Boss, I just read the other day an account of sailors fighting for their lives after their destroyer turned into the path of a massive cargo ship two years back. All these guys sleeping in what they called their coffins; after collision, they had to wake up & evacuate while being rapidly flooded. The Captain had done them one favor, life-saving really, in drilling them on evacuating with blindfolds. But what struck me in the account I read was the trust they had in each other–all these guys, more than two dozen, lining up calmly by the only available exit ladder, in cold water rapidly reaching up to drown them.
It was a strange thing to think about. The mess that the Navy is, vast incompetence at so many levels; & the political consideration–the crisis coming, since this is the 7th Fleet we’re talking about, & it lost two Arleigh Burke-class destroyers to foolish collisions recently. On the other hand, these guys putting their faith in each other in a crisis & surviving together. I suppose, in a crisis, there’s nothing else to do, if you keep your head. I’ve never been on a sinking ship, so I don’t have the experience. But these men seemed to know what they were doing. But maybe even when you’re not in a crisis, all you really can trust in is people next to you. In some ways, the military seems ahead of the rest o America. There are lots of people in lots of places who don’t have anyone they could trust!
As you wish.
https://features.propublica.org/navy-accidents/uss-fitzgerald-destroyer-crash-crystal/
The above is the article TT is referring to. Fascinating read.
ProPublica is not my favorite news outlet, because they’re Progressives–because of course they are! But they do a lot of good work.
Conservatives, at least, used to care about national security–I hope some still do. Look at what a crazy thing the Pentagon has become. What a crazy thing the military has become. This cannot end well. America will have to face the realities of war again & not the sort of small wars most of the nation can forget about. Who will be prepared?
Titus, one of the lessons one learns over years is that if you stay calm and do your job, you may well perish. But if you freak out, you’re definitely going to die.
Victor Davis Hanson points out in Carnage and Culture that warrior societies revere individual bravery and performance. But “soldier” societies value doing one’s job whatever the cost. It was a seminal point in my professional development. Peruse the citations of those awarded the Medal of Honor. Most were awarded for performing one’s job in the most egregious circumstances and despite seemingly insurmountable obstacles (including horrific wounds).
A humbling example is Gary Gordon and Randy Shughart. Their job was to rescue pilot Michael Durant. They went in knowing that they probably wouldn’t come out, knowing that the odds were impossible. But they did it anyway, ’cause that was their job. God Bless those magnificent muldoons.
You remind me of a really good book on this matter–how awards for MoH have changed since WWII!
Afternoon Boss and Ronin,
Thanks for the insight into the modern warrior. The clip the Boss gave us shows a society where all the fighters have one history, they know it and it is part of the core of their lives. One might imagine that even the civilians know the history as in Sparta, but we have been for more that a century where people say they will not die for God or country, or where the elites say they would rather die for their friends than their country, hasn’t the modern world created a gulf between the warriors and the civilians? Doesn’t this gulf invite mistakes in policies where warriors are needed. Do you have any thoughts on how to bridge the gulf?
Boss you mentioned the warrior societies which showcase bravery and performance, VDH in talking about the Aztecs, noted how they often fought as individuals with flourish and bravery. He also noted that they so outnumbered the Spanish that they could have overrun them, but because of the style of fighting they, in the end, lost everything.
Afternoon Titus,
Is it the case that a society with philosophers and theologians who have destroyed the monsters, is also a society that can no longer have a commonly believed history. That once we being to question the existence of monsters and show that those beliefs in monsters are flawed, then we will begin to question the value of everything other belief, bravery, morals, truth. So once we are so sophisticated that we can comfortably ask “how sacred is x, really?’, we will no longer share a belief system, and since everything is in question, why should I trust you in any transaction, or statement you make? If we were to name tribes we have studied Cheyenne, Nuer, Yanomami, the individuals know everyone, their parents, and on an on, and their survival depends on cooperation which requires trust and a network of obligations. Once we go to city-states, kingdoms we loose the networks and trust, we gain materially by work specialization, large scale trade, technology, we also loose a common history. It seems ineluctable that we will end up questioning everything, and that the stories we tell each other will not be about how we acted strongly for the good, but that we have no more merit than the worst. When the Beatles wrote, “he’s the all American bullet-headed Saxon mother’s (isn’t that too gender specific in every direction) son”, their lyrics weren’t exceptional, those are the lyrics of all civilizations as their history fades.
Evening Titus,
Romania just beat the Czech Republic in Ostrava (pardon my poor spelling) in Fed Cup (tennis ) play.
I know! The house was not on alert–but people were watching rather attentively!
Jim, hello! These are somber thoughts we’re thinking here. Yes, I think that once we become rational, we necessarily overestimate the powers of our rationality–& then overestimate our powers. Sophisticated living is nice right up until the horror starts. It’s hard work to remind people even in times of crisis, to mend their ways. In good times, no one listens. No one ever learns either–it’s not like the Founding taught Americans to stick together–it taught them to fight a Civil War instead. That lesson took for a long time, but it doesn’t look now as though Americans still like each other better than they’d like to see each other humiliated & immiserated…
I can tell you from my experience that nine times out of ten, when I try to warn conservatives about their weaknesses & advise what they might do to improve, they look at me with polite contempt–at the best of times. & these are supposed to be the sane people. Nobody wants to restrain themselves & to do the public things & to act in faith in the future in the way they should. That’s human nature. People want to believe that God owes them personally success, because of their virtues, & so the country will just have to be in good shape for their sake. That’s the majority attitude, as best I can tell. It saddens me, but I have learned one thing over the years–never to ask myself, What can I do! I’ve never heard someone say that who wanted to get to do what’s needed. It’s mostly people who don’t want to do anything. So I do what I can.
I do not believe God is going to keep America safe & happy. I don’t see why America should thrive when every other great power has collapsed. I think it will be harder work than people imagine to restore America to a reasonable arrangement that allows or even fosters decent lives for people…
Not God’s job. Mine.
Because America is exceptional.
We’re on hard times, but we aren’t near to being done. Not even close.
I am curious as to from whom you’ve heard these sentiments? I know lots and lots of people and none of this sounds right to me.
As to the bolded comment, I find myself unable to respond. Now … were you to say it to my face with no CofC to worry about … I would have a hard time choosing between the responses that spring to mind
Boy, there is a lot to unpack here. Again, I only can speak for myself, but let me see if I can answer some of this.
“but we have been for more that a century where people say they will not die for God or country, or where the elites say they would rather die for their friends than their country, hasn’t the modern world created a gulf between the warriors and the civilians?”
Yes, very much so. Less then 1.0% of the U.S. adult population of military age are currently serving as active military personnel. ( http://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2017/11/10/the-changing-face-of-americas-veteran-population/ )
Over 90% of this <1.0% come from the lower middle class/working poor. They come mostly from the fly over states and inner cities. They all generally test at or below a 9th grade level for reading, language and math skills. There are many cultural and social reasons for this, but being stupid is not one of them. Once active duty, about 17% of the <1.0% will make a career of the military. So, yes it is a very thin line. So the next time a congressman from California threatens to use military force (i.e. nukes) against U.S. citizens who own guns (i.e. mostly the middle class and working poor), someone should remind him of who makes up that military force.
“Doesn’t this gulf invite mistakes in policies where warriors are needed.”
Yes, see Korean War (1950-Present), Vietnam (1955-1975), Gulf War I (1990-1991), Gulf War II/Afghanistan (2001-Present), War on Drugs (1919-Present) and so on.
“Do you have any thoughts on how to bridge the gulf?”
My grandmother use to say, “you can poop in one hand and hope in the other, then see which one fills up first.” Despite this sage advise I still hope that over time with a lot of effort, hard work and with the grace of God, we in the U.S. can turn things around. I think Abraham Lincoln said it best:
“The fiery trial through which we pass, will light us down, in honor or dishonor, to the latest generation. We say we are for the Union. The world will not forget that we say this. We know how to save the Union. The world knows we do know how to save it. We — even we here — hold the power, and bear the responsibility. In giving freedom to the slave, we assure freedom to the free — honorable alike in what we give, and what we preserve. We shall nobly save, or meanly lose, the last best hope of earth. Other means may succeed; this could not fail. The way is plain, peaceful, generous, just — a way which, if followed, the world will forever applaud, and God must forever bless.”
And if we can’t, welcome to the new dark age. The rules are simple – there are no rules.
Who knows if what makes America exceptional is also going to ensure it lasts like some of the ancient republics or even empires did? America has incomparable power, but not as yet longevity.
America will last if people work wisely at it & get lucky now & then. Being exceptional is more the effect of survival than the cause. There is no special divine or cosmic dispensation defending America. Should people grow too arrogant & should that make them very complacent, the end will come–whether the name of the people is Americans or something else.
It is necessary in any crisis for a people to recur to their foundational beliefs & habits. So far, there’s not a lot of that happening. Furthermore, it should be obvious by now that the fate of the country is slipping from the hands of the generation that piled up all the recent catastrophes in war, in the economy, in politics–into the hands of a generation or generations that never knew those few mid-century years of the terrestrial paradise. Younger Americans have this to recommend them, that they didn’t cause all the catastrophes or fail to deal with them; in that way, they are obviously better than older Americans, who crippled the economy, ran up the debt, turned the country over to a surveillance state while failing to secure victory in war & peace through it, all the while helping China become a worldwide rival. But older Americans have run the country at various levels; there’s some experience in that; the younger lack it almost entirely. Even where the young have succeeded the most, in Silicon Valley, the record is mixed & it is not entirely their due. Who knows if the younger will do better than the older did? This crisis may make Americans somewhat more realistic. But whether it will encourage any wisdom I do not know. Some generations in America have encouraged great statesmen, but only in times of crisis; in normal times, statesmanship is despised. People prefer to elect most of those very forgettable presidents &c. If, indeed, we are in a time of crisis, which is my opinion at least, we have to look to see whether Americans turn toward greatness in their political preferences. We have a lot of evidence of dissatisfaction with the governing classes–but that’s about it. Only when we see less arrogance & more striving will we have grounds for our hopes. The corruption of American power over the last generation has always come from arrogance. Failure upon failure has been the result; lots of blaming, mostly in-between factions & parties, has followed each failure, instead of fixing things; & there is no humility to speak of… People will change sooner than anything else, because even Americans are mortal. We will see whether this ongoing shift in generations makes it possible to fix problems that have festered for some two decades now…