Trump Fatigue Syndrome: Is There a Cure?

 

I’m tired. And I take full responsibility for my condition. I’m not here to blame Donald Trump for my difficulties. I also think I’m not alone, and I care a great deal for all the people who are in the same dire straits. My biggest concern is that Donald Trump’s prospects for 2020 could be at risk. But I’m getting ahead of myself.

First, let me explain how I arrived at this point. I’m one of those many people who was not a Trump supporter at the beginning, but I came on board early as I saw his many accomplishments: tax cuts, great economy, Supreme Court justices, cuts in regulations, demands that the Europeans pony up for NATO—and the list goes on.

But as I was on my morning walk, I realized I wasn’t alone. In fact, I’m a suburban woman—one of those females who is beginning to pull away. I know that Trump will need every vote he can get. I know he has every reason to attack the media. I realize that he’s a fighter and when he sees people do stupid things, he feels obligated to call them out. I get it.

But I’m tired of it.

I think that Trump Fatigue Syndrome is a kind of burn-out, the condition that describes people who feel they have to abandon their jobs because the life has gone out of them. Leaving their jobs, however, is not the answer. Burn-out is not about the job, but about unrealistic expectations for what the job can offer, or what they can offer to the job. For example, people who work in hospice sometimes burn-out. The reasons go beyond their watching people die (although that can be a factor); instead, they often feel they are not providing enough comfort to these people–that they aren’t doing enough. That they have no power to change their patients’ circumstances. They feel helpless.

I know my TFS comes from my frustration at watching Trump exaggerate, attack others, write outrageous tweets. I know he likely will not stop. But I know a part of me wishes he would. Nothing I do—nothing those other suburban women do—will change those behaviors. But I think we’re feeling tired of it.

For the record, I think I’m a pretty tough woman—not soldier quality, but realistic and resilient. But I’m tired of making excuses for Trump. I’m tired of trotting out all the many good things he’s done to compensate for his poor behavior. I know there’s a good man under the hyperbole and bluster, and even a reasonable man—I saw that man in his interview with Chris Wallace on Fox News Sunday. I want to see more of that man. But I’m not optimistic. And I’m worried about whether those other suburban women will stick it out.

As a side note, I discussed this topic with my husband. He reminded me that a lot of Trump’s comments were intended to attack the swamp: the politicians, the media and any other related groups. Many of his supporters (including me to some degree) think they’ve deserved it. But in reflecting on the last several months, I wonder to what degree his ranting (following his election) has made any difference, except to put people on notice. Has it helped him attain any of his goals, as he suggests it has? Would he have accomplished as much without the negative rhetoric? My husband suggests that at this point, even if he wanted to change, his ranting and tweets are just bad habits. (After all, he’s in his 70s.) But then I asked, doesn’t he want to be re-elected? And my husband responded, “Does he?” This comment made me stop and think.

So I’m tired. Do you have any suggestions for me to realize a cure for what ails me? Is there a way to reach suburban women without a major change from Trump? I think there may be more than my feelings at stake.

Published in Politics
This post was promoted to the Main Feed by a Ricochet Editor at the recommendation of Ricochet members. Like this post? Want to comment? Join Ricochet’s community of conservatives and be part of the conversation. Join Ricochet for Free.

There are 251 comments.

Become a member to join the conversation. Or sign in if you're already a member.
  1. Ed G. Member
    Ed G.
    @EdG

    Valiuth (View Comment):

    PHenry (View Comment):
    This is a fight for the soul and culture of this nation. It will get uglier before it gets better. The left has no problem keeping it up. Do we have the stomach for it?

    Melodrama much? This all isn’t about anything higher or nobler. It is just defending a disgusting politician for political expediancy.

    I remember that way of thinking. So 2012. So 1992. 

    Battling the press arm of the left is both high and noble. Failing to enter that battle leads to disaster. Which is a shame, because I think history has shown that it doesn’t take armies. Rush Limbaugh almost singlehandedly kept the Republicans in the game in the 90’s and Trump prevented another 4-8 years of progressive decay/disaster. How? Bold and simple and entertaining truth telling; shattering the illusions of mainstream media and culture. 

    • #61
  2. WillowSpring Member
    WillowSpring
    @WillowSpring

    Lots of good comments.  One thing I didn’t see was that in addition to the press being totally against him*, the courts (9th circuit in particular), seem ready to overturn anything he does and the establishment GOP is not much help either.

    I was not originally for Trump and went through several other candidates before I voted for him.  I can’t imagine any of those early candidates putting up with the stuff that he puts up with.  I don’t believe that the MSM or “resistance” movement will change if we get a nice guy like Pense as a replacement and I don’t see another fighter in the wings to replace Trump

    There were several comments on Trump’s comments on Charlottesville.  I think the MSM contributed to what was called his “mushiness”.  If you read his entire comments, I thought they made sense.  That may be due to my not wanting the statues to be removed and if I lived closer, may have joined the protest against the removal.  I am not a racist, but do think that history should be preserved – otherwise, we are like the Politboro with its doctored photos.

    • It is not just Trump that the Media is against, it is his entire family.  One trivial example is the treatment of Melania vs Michelle by the women’s magazines in the grocery checkout line.  For 8 years, I don’t think there was ever a time when Michelle was not on at least one cover.  I have never seen a cover with Melania and now that Michelle has her book out, she is starting to show up again.
    • #62
  3. DrewInWisconsin Member
    DrewInWisconsin
    @DrewInWisconsin

    Ed G. (View Comment):

    DrewInWisconsin (View Comment):

    We all must separate what the President actually says and does from what the press, Democrats and the TDS-afflicted say about him. It requires work, but the only other option is to let yourself be brainwashed.

    There is a third option: ignore the daily back and forth and concentrate on the broad substance. I’ve been somewhere in between your suggestion to be my own fact checker and my third way of ignoring the unnecessary detail.

    Yep. That works. But by no means should anyone trust what the media (or the Trump-Deranged) say about the President.

    • #63
  4. DrewInWisconsin Member
    DrewInWisconsin
    @DrewInWisconsin

    This column by James Delingpole is a must-read on this subject. Opening sentence:

    The conservative thinkers in Britain and the U.S. I most admire are the ones who can complete a sentence on the achievements of Trump’s presidency without ending it “but personally, I find him deplorable.”

    Worth reading the whole thing.

    WillowSpring (View Comment):
    There were several comments on Trump’s comments on Charlottesville. I think the MSM contributed to what was called his “mushiness”. If you read his entire comments, I thought they made sense. That may be due to my not wanting the statues to be removed and if I lived closer, may have joined the protest against the removal. I am not a racist, but do think that history should be preserved – otherwise, we are like the Politboro with its doctored photos

    From the piece above:

    Every time I hear a conservative deploring Donald Trump or saying “but Charlottesville”, I hear not the voice of moderation but of an intellectual and moral coward happy to sell his own comrades to an implacable enemy for the reward of being placed slightly lower down on that enemy’s death list.

    Let’s get this straight. We – at least the vast majority of us – on the side of the argument that Donald Trump is currently representing believe in stuff like: national borders, free speech, protecting citizens’ interests, equality of opportunity, lower taxes, smaller government, democratic accountability, the family, personal responsibility, rising standards of living, property rights, the rule of law, checks and balances, the Constitution, liberty. There is nothing in any of this we should feel awkward or guilty about. It does not make us Nazis. Or even semi-Nazis. Or alt-right. Or any of the other pejorative terms which – according to our opponents – make it wholly acceptable to punch the teeth out of anyone in a MAGA baseball cap.

    Trump Derangement Syndrome has caused some conservatives – not all of us, thankfully – to lose sight of why it is that we fight.

    We fight because we’re right. And yes – as Trump is one of the few conservative presidents to get – it really is that simple.

    • #64
  5. Western Chauvinist Member
    Western Chauvinist
    @WesternChauvinist

    Well, for goodness sake, what are you doing on Twitter, Susan??! I may have read a total of three of Trump’s tweets, but only because someone posted them here. I mean, really, if you don’t want to get dirty, stay out of the sewer! One can only take so much exposure to the Left’s narrative before one starts absorbing it. Let Trump do the dirty work and just enjoy the fruits of his labor.

    I had outrage fatigue for eight years under Obama. Any suburban women who didn’t and find themselves worn out by Trump are probably not within reach. Any suburban women who think their husbands and sons are safe from the Kavanaugh effect of the Left are dreaming. 

    Orange Man Bad 2020. It’s important.

    • #65
  6. Goldwaterwoman Thatcher
    Goldwaterwoman
    @goldwaterwoman

    DrewInWisconsin (View Comment):

    One of the reasons we get this fatigue is because everywhere you turn someone is screaming incoherently about the President.

    Your fatigue may not be with the President himself, but with the unhinged, deranged, overreactions of his detractors.

    Take them out of the equation. Are you still fatigued?

    Methinks you  hit the nail on the head.  Another contributing factor is the prolonged vote counts in Florida, Georgia, California and Arizona where we once again view mysterious boxes of ballots appear after election night. It’s pretty discouraging and makes me wonder if we’re not all just whistling in the wind. How much longer can we be the voices in the wilderness?

    • #66
  7. cdor Member
    cdor
    @cdor

    Gumby Mark (R-Meth Lab of Demo… (View Comment):

    I get tired too sometimes. I’m going to stick with the man but what’s more worrisome, I’m seeing people who are getting tired and may not, or have already decided not to. Our elections are increasingly run on thin margins so every vote counts. Trump won in 2016 because of the decisions of 80,000 voters out of a total of 130 million.

    Trump (and we) have benefited in that his worst enemies are progressives and they’ve been so over the top they usually sound insane. Their reaction to his election has led him in a more conservative direction which is all to the good.

    But Trump’s second worst enemy is himself. It’s great to have a president who fights back, but he fights on everything big, small, important, unimportant. Sometimes that’s a good thing (Fake News, for instance), sometimes it’s bad (he recently decided for some reason to take on the guy in charge of the SEAL mission to kill Bin Laden). Part of it is his nature, part of it from his experience in reality TV where you always need to do something to keep the audience’s attention.

    It is tiring defending him when it is his indiscipline and verbal mush that often gets him into trouble. Take Charlottesville for example – the reporting and excerpts from his press conference gave a misleading impression, something I only realized after wading through the entire transcript and deciphering what he was trying to say amidst his linguistic chaos. So, I can defend him but it’s like trying to explain a translation from a foreign language. And, please, don’t let him anywhere near Putin again. He sounds like a starstruck teenage girl when he’s around Vlad.

    It is also tiring because I know that while I agree with much of the substance of what he has done, I know it is not based on any long standing principles (other than trade – I remember him in the 80s predicting Japan would crush us). For now, circumstances, his instincts, and progressive craziness have led to an alignment between his actions and my views. But there are no long-term guarantees that alignment will last for the next 2 or 6 years. And who knows when he might run completely off the rails?

    Good points, Gumby. Trump, as President, will always be punching down. Sometimes, though, he reaches way to far. I could, but won’t, speculate as to why he is compelled to do that. His tweeting, overall, is absolutely necessary given the incredibly uniformly bile nature of the media. It’s all he’s got to counterbalance them. You are, imho, correct in indicating that Trump is not an idealogue. His conservatism is totally pragmatic. He’s a builder. He goes with what works. But if Republicans do not support him, he is very likely to start looking elsewhere.

    • #67
  8. Gumby Mark (R-Meth Lab of Demo… Coolidge
    Gumby Mark (R-Meth Lab of Demo…
    @GumbyMark

    cdor (View Comment):

    Gumby Mark (R-Meth Lab of Demo… (View Comment):

    I get tired too sometimes. I’m going to stick with the man but what’s more worrisome, I’m seeing people who are getting tired and may not, or have already decided not to. Our elections are increasingly run on thin margins so every vote counts. Trump won in 2016 because of the decisions of 80,000 voters out of a total of 130 million.

    Trump (and we) have benefited in that his worst enemies are progressives and they’ve been so over the top they usually sound insane. Their reaction to his election has led him in a more conservative direction which is all to the good.

    But Trump’s second worst enemy is himself. It’s great to have a president who fights back, but he fights on everything big, small, important, unimportant. Sometimes that’s a good thing (Fake News, for instance), sometimes it’s bad (he recently decided for some reason to take on the guy in charge of the SEAL mission to kill Bin Laden). Part of it is his nature, part of it from his experience in reality TV where you always need to do something to keep the audience’s attention.

    It is tiring defending him when it is his indiscipline and verbal mush that often gets him into trouble. Take Charlottesville for example – the reporting and excerpts from his press conference gave a misleading impression, something I only realized after wading through the entire transcript and deciphering what he was trying to say amidst his linguistic chaos. So, I can defend him but it’s like trying to explain a translation from a foreign language. And, please, don’t let him anywhere near Putin again. He sounds like a starstruck teenage girl when he’s around Vlad.

    It is also tiring because I know that while I agree with much of the substance of what he has done, I know it is not based on any long standing principles (other than trade – I remember him in the 80s predicting Japan would crush us). For now, circumstances, his instincts, and progressive craziness have led to an alignment between his actions and my views. But there are no long-term guarantees that alignment will last for the next 2 or 6 years. And who knows when he might run completely off the rails?

    Good points, Gumby. Trump, as President, will always be punching down. Sometimes, though, he reaches way to far. I could, but won’t, speculate as to why he is compelled to do that. His tweeting, overall, is absolutely necessary given the incredibly uniformly bile nature of the media. It’s all he’s got to counterbalance them. You are, imho, correct in indicating that Trump is not an idealogue. His conservatism is totally pragmatic. He’s a builder. He goes with what works. But if Republicans do not support him, he is very likely to staring looking elsewhere.

    Exactly. Pretty much everything, except trade, is personal with him.  This is the guy who criticized Romney for being too tough on illegal immigration in 2012, and criticized Scalia for being too tough on affirmative action.  He goes with what works for him.  But he may not have an alternative given Democrat refusal to work with him on anything so far, except sentencing reform (and even there is a large GOP contingent onboard). 

    • #68
  9. Susan Quinn Contributor
    Susan Quinn
    @SusanQuinn

    Western Chauvinist (View Comment):

    Well, for goodness sake, what are you doing on Twitter, Susan??! I may have read a total of three of Trump’s tweets, but only because someone posted them here. I mean, really, if you don’t want to get dirty, stay out of the sewer! One can only take so much exposure to the Left’s narrative before one starts absorbing it. Let Trump do the dirty work and just enjoy the fruits of his labor.

    I had outrage fatigue for eight years under Obama. Any suburban women who didn’t and find themselves worn out by Trump are probably not within reach. Any suburban women who think their husbands and sons are safe from the Kavanaugh effect of the Left are dreaming.

    Orange Man Bad 2020. It’s important.

    I’ve never been on Twitter, WC. 

    • #69
  10. HeavyWater Inactive
    HeavyWater
    @HeavyWater

    Back in 2015-2016 when Trump entered and won the Republican nomination, I had two main worries:

    [1] That Trump wasn’t a conservative, but would pretend to be a conservative in order to win the nomination. 

    If Trump were nominated, we would essentially have 2 New York Democrat presidential nominees to choose from, but no conservative choice.

    [2] Even if Trump was a conservative, he was so offensive that he would not only lose the 2016 election in a landslide, but he would take down Republican candidates for Senate and House and deliver all of Congress and the White House to the Democrats.  

    As we know, we found out on election day 2016 that [2] was wrong and within a few months, once Trump became president, that [1] was wrong.  

    I do suffer from Trump Fatigue Syndrome only because I think there might be some persuadable voters in America who could be convinced of the value of many of Trump’s policies if we had a better communicator in the White House.  I can’t prove that.  I can’t prove that Ted Cruz would do a better job.  And Cruz isn’t president; Trump is.  

    So, it’s best just to accept that, possibly, Trump will lose in 2020 because he is incapable of communicating effectively with the voters or that Trump will win in 2020 despite his deficiencies.  The Left is so offensive, Trump will win by default.  

    Either are possible.  So, relax.   Grab some popcorn and enjoy the show.

    • #70
  11. Western Chauvinist Member
    Western Chauvinist
    @WesternChauvinist

    Susan Quinn (View Comment):

    Western Chauvinist (View Comment):

    Well, for goodness sake, what are you doing on Twitter, Susan??! I may have read a total of three of Trump’s tweets, but only because someone posted them here. I mean, really, if you don’t want to get dirty, stay out of the sewer! One can only take so much exposure to the Left’s narrative before one starts absorbing it. Let Trump do the dirty work and just enjoy the fruits of his labor.

    I had outrage fatigue for eight years under Obama. Any suburban women who didn’t and find themselves worn out by Trump are probably not within reach. Any suburban women who think their husbands and sons are safe from the Kavanaugh effect of the Left are dreaming.

    Orange Man Bad 2020. It’s important.

    I’ve never been on Twitter, WC.

    Good. Then my only advice is to minimize the media you consume concerning Trump, and enjoy the good in your life. 

    • #71
  12. OldPhil Coolidge
    OldPhil
    @OldPhil

    I could be one of those “suburbanites” who are tired of his blather and could be convinced to vote against him next time (unless Hillary runs again, then I’d even vote for John freaking Kasich), but as long as the Resistance keeps up its incessant caterwauling I only want them to get Trumped for 8 years.

    • #72
  13. KentForrester Inactive
    KentForrester
    @KentForrester

    Susan, I kept hoping that Trump would mature as he grew into his role as President.  He hasn’t.  He remains an immature blithering idiot.  

    It’s only in the last few weeks that I’ve begun to feel like that.  And now, like Gary, I think Trump is bad for conservatism and the Republican Party.  I never thought I would say that. 

    Damn, the guy can’t seem to stop exaggerating, blaming others, and putting his foot in his mouth.  He’s crass and a boor.

    I agree with almost everything he’s trying to do.  

    I just hope he bows out and lets something else carry the banner for conservativism.  With his ego, he probably won’t do that.

    Like you, I have a bad case of TDS. 

    • #73
  14. RJ Inactive
    RJ
    @RJClark

    I have this feeling that Kasich (or someone else) will run as a third party just to spoil Trump’s chances in 2020 and it will work because of the fatigue-factor. I like the majority of what Trump does but am exhausted by the lack of precision in his comments and that takes away from the acheivements. The GOP could have done much better in the midterms and I really think that’s because we’ve lost suburban voters and not gained any voters in return. The Rust Belt has already ditched him as those union voters didn’t need much to wander back into Democratic habits.

    • #74
  15. The Reticulator Member
    The Reticulator
    @TheReticulator

    Valiuth (View Comment):
    Melodrama much?

    During the Kavenaugh hearings the media played up the emotional aspect of the accusations, as if that was the most important thing in the world. So, yes, melodrama much.  

    • #75
  16. Goldwaterwoman Thatcher
    Goldwaterwoman
    @goldwaterwoman

    RJ (View Comment):
    The GOP could have done much better in the midterms and I really think that’s because we’ve lost suburban voters and not gained any voters in return.

    I am convinced that we didn’t do better in the midterms sits squarely on the shoulders of Paul Ryan aided and abetted by the most ineffective RNC chairman in years, Ronna Romney McDaniel. They both left Trump to carry the election by himself. 

     

    • #76
  17. Jeff Hawkins Inactive
    Jeff Hawkins
    @JeffHawkins

    DonG (View Comment):

    TFS is real. I agree that many people will vote for the Dem. candidate just to end the daily Trump-a-thon held by the MSM. Trump is everywhere and he invades every conversation and every issue and every relationship. It really is too much. As Lawrence O’Donnell said, “Stop The Hammering!!” (language alert on the link)

    Which is the entire point of the exercise.  The entire outrage is to make you think things have never been worse and if only you’d vote for Democrats, everything would be great…because everything was great under Obama.  Oh sure, the lack of jobs was unexpected, the failure of solar based power initiatives was unexpected, the failure of the stimulus was unexpected.  But he tried hard, and no other President faced such obstruction and such hatred.   

    Things were great, you just didn’t know it or were too blinded by racism.

    You’re going to get hammered either way.  

    Remember that Bush was a Nazi, a cowboy looking to go to war to avenge Daddy and raise Haliburton’s stock prices because his puppet master Dick Cheney and corporate interests controlled everything.  Things were never worse.

    Trump’s tweets are dumb, but it’s the not the tweets it’s the screaming and outrage about oh how this is so unprecedented and fascist!  But if you vote for Democrats, we help people.

    The next Republican President won’t fight back, and all of this will still be the same.

    This is the game.

    • #77
  18. Susan Quinn Contributor
    Susan Quinn
    @SusanQuinn

    Goldwaterwoman (View Comment):

    RJ (View Comment):
    The GOP could have done much better in the midterms and I really think that’s because we’ve lost suburban voters and not gained any voters in return.

    I am convinced that we didn’t do better in the midterms sits squarely on the shoulders of Paul Ryan aided and abetted by the most ineffective RNC chairman in years, Ronna Romney McDaniel. They both left Trump to carry the election by himself.

     

    You’re right. Ryan let us down. As did the RNC. Let’s hope the future looks brighter! 

    • #78
  19. DrewInWisconsin Member
    DrewInWisconsin
    @DrewInWisconsin

    Jeff Hawkins (View Comment):
    Remember that Bush was a Nazi, a cowboy looking to go to war to avenge Daddy and raise Haliburton’s stock prices because his puppet master Dick Cheney and corporate interests controlled everything.

    Coming soon to a theater near you.

    Not kidding.

    • #79
  20. Susan Quinn Contributor
    Susan Quinn
    @SusanQuinn

    Jeff Hawkins (View Comment):

    DonG (View Comment):

    TFS is real. I agree that many people will vote for the Dem. candidate just to end the daily Trump-a-thon held by the MSM. Trump is everywhere and he invades every conversation and every issue and every relationship. It really is too much. As Lawrence O’Donnell said, “Stop The Hammering!!” (language alert on the link)

    Which is the entire point of the exercise. The entire outrage is to make you think things have never been worse and if only you’d vote for Democrats, everything would be great…because everything was great under Obama. Oh sure, the lack of jobs was unexpected, the failure of solar based power initiatives was unexpected, the failure of the stimulus was unexpected. But he tried hard, and no other President faced such obstruction and such hatred.

    Things were great, you just didn’t know it or were too blinded by racism.

    You’re going to get hammered either way.

    Remember that Bush was a Nazi, a cowboy looking to go to war to avenge Daddy and raise Haliburton’s stock prices because his puppet master Dick Cheney and corporate interests controlled everything. Things were never worse.

    Trump’s tweets are dumb, but it’s the not the tweets it’s the screaming and outrage about oh how this is so unprecedented and fascist! But if you vote for Democrats, we help people.

    The next Republican President won’t fight back, and all of this will still be the same.

    This is the game.

    I’m just not convinced that the Democrats are that devious. They are just not that smart. I think they are just focusing on destruction and revenge. We’ll see.

     

     

    • #80
  21. Chuckles Coolidge
    Chuckles
    @Chuckles

    Two helps that I really need to keep in mind:

    “A man’s heart deviseth his way;  But Jehovah directeth his steps.” – Prov. 16:9

    “The king’s heart is in the hand of the Lord, Like the rivers of water; He turns it wherever He wishes.” – Prov. 21:1

     

    • #81
  22. Sash Member
    Sash
    @Sash

    Yeah, I’m tired too.  But it’s the holidays and plenty to pay attention to besides Trump.

    I think it’s his intensity.  And the intensity against him.  It’s just so darn hard to keep up that level of outrage and so much easier to look away.  It gives me a headache.

    Most politicians try to stir up the passions for the voting, and keep things steady in between, but this is just non stop and it’s emotionally exhausting… I don’t get why the left isn’t also exhausted.  

    And that could determine who wins in 2020.  Which makes it all the more important that the confirmations continue in the face of exhaustion, just in case.

    • #82
  23. Sash Member
    Sash
    @Sash

    Goldwaterwoman (View Comment):

    RJ (View Comment):
    The GOP could have done much better in the midterms and I really think that’s because we’ve lost suburban voters and not gained any voters in return.

    I am convinced that we didn’t do better in the midterms sits squarely on the shoulders of Paul Ryan aided and abetted by the most ineffective RNC chairman in years, Ronna Romney McDaniel. They both left Trump to carry the election by himself.

     

    Huh?  Do we live in the same country?  That is so backwards, the only reason Trump didn’t lose the Senate too was the good work of Ronna McDaniel.  Trump did all he could to lose it.  She saved him.  And McConnell did too.

    • #83
  24. Gary Robbins Member
    Gary Robbins
    @GaryRobbins

    Goldwaterwoman (View Comment):

    DrewInWisconsin (View Comment):

    One of the reasons we get this fatigue is because everywhere you turn someone is screaming incoherently about the President.

    Your fatigue may not be with the President himself, but with the unhinged, deranged, overreactions of his detractors.

    Take them out of the equation. Are you still fatigued?

    Methinks you hit the nail on the head. Another contributing factor is the prolonged vote counts in Florida, Georgia, California and Arizona where we once again view mysterious boxes of ballots appear after election night. It’s pretty discouraging and makes me wonder if we’re not all just whistling in the wind. How much longer can we be the voices in the wilderness?

    I don’t know about the other states, but in Arizona the number of ballots, (a) received by mail before Election Day, (b) cast at the polls on Election Day, and (c) delivered to the polls on Election Day were public knowledge within minutes after the polls closed.  They were a finite number.  

    The ballots cast at the polls were tabulated immediately.  

    The ballots which were received in the mail before Election Day, were then counted, after the signatures on the outside of the envelope were confirmed.  

    The ballots which voters dropped off were then counted after the signatures on the outside of the envelope were confirmed.

    A few more ballots came in the mail, mostly from members of the Armed Forces.  They were counted after the signatures on the outside of the envelope were confirmed.  

    My point is that in Arizona, the universe of ballots was limited.  There weren’t poll workers who showed up with ballot boxes in their trunk several days later.  There was not a hint of fraud in Arizona.  Maybe in other states but not here.

    There is the valid point of if vote by mail is a good thing or not, especially given the delays.  But the system has no stash of ballots showing up.

    • #84
  25. Gary Robbins Member
    Gary Robbins
    @GaryRobbins

    HeavyWater (View Comment):

    Back in 2015-2016 when Trump entered and won the Republican nomination, I had two main worries:

    [1] That Trump wasn’t a conservative, but would pretend to be a conservative in order to win the nomination.

    If Trump were nominated, we would essentially have 2 New York Democrat presidential nominees to choose from, but no conservative choice.

    [2] Even if Trump was a conservative, he was so offensive that he would not only lose the 2016 election in a landslide, but he would take down Republican candidates for Senate and House and deliver all of Congress and the White House to the Democrats.

    As we know, we found out on election day 2016 that [2] was wrong and within a few months, once Trump became president, that [1] was wrong.

    I do suffer from Trump Fatigue Syndrome only because I think there might be some persuadable voters in America who could be convinced of the value of many of Trump’s policies if we had a better communicator in the White House. I can’t prove that. I can’t prove that Ted Cruz would do a better job. And Cruz isn’t president; Trump is.

    So, it’s best just to accept that, possibly, Trump will lose in 2020 because he is incapable of communicating effectively with the voters or that Trump will win in 2020 despite his deficiencies. The Left is so offensive, Trump will win by default.

    Either are possible. So, relax. Grab some popcorn and enjoy the show.

    I disagree, especially as to the second point.  In 2016, most people thought that Hillary was going to win, so Republicans were elected to put a check on her.

    However, in 2018, the Democrats beat us in the House by the largest percentage since Watergate.  There is only one Republican Representative left in New Jersey.  We have lost all of the Republican Representatives in Orange County.

    We lost 2 of 9 Republican Senate Seats, while Democrats lost only 4 of 26 Democratic Senate Seats.

    We lost 7 Governorships.

    Since 2017, we have lost over 300 legislators.  (We hold only a paper-thin 31-29 margin in the Arizona House of Representatives.)

    The last statewide Democrat to win in Arizona was 10 years ago in 2008.  But in 2018, the Democrats won 4 statewide races, including the first Democrat Senator elected in 30 years.

    If we keep Trump, we will lose women, independents, the educated, the young and the suburbs, and we will deserve to lose them.

    In 2018 the United States had the highest midterm voter turnout since 1914, when the issue was if we should get into World War I.  Imagine, only joining in a World War was more controversial than Trump!

    • #85
  26. The Reticulator Member
    The Reticulator
    @TheReticulator

    Gary Robbins (View Comment):

    I disagree, especially as to the second point. In 2016, most people thought that Hillary was going to win, so Republicans were elected to put a check on her.

    However, in 2018, the Democrats beat us in the House by the largest percentage since Watergate. There is only one Republican Representative left in New Jersey. We have lost all of the Republican Representatives in Orange County.

    We lost 2 of 9 Senate Seats, while Democrats lost only 4 of 26 Senate Seats.

    We lost 7 Governorships.

    Since 2017, we have lost over 300 legislators. (We hold only a paper-thin 31-29 margin in the Arizona House of Representatives.)

    If we keep Trump, we will lose women, independents, the educated, the young and the suburbs, and we will deserve to lose them.

    In 2018 the United States had the highest midterm voter turnout since 1914, when the issue was if we should get into World War I. Imagine, only joining in a World War was more controversial than Trump!

    And if we nominate more establishment Republicans of the likes of bush (generic term) we deserve to lose. It’s really strange that those Republicans who are responsible for the rise of Trump are now complaining the loudest about him.

    • #86
  27. Gary Robbins Member
    Gary Robbins
    @GaryRobbins

    The Reticulator (View Comment):

    Gary Robbins (View Comment):

    I disagree, especially as to the second point. In 2016, most people thought that Hillary was going to win, so Republicans were elected to put a check on her.

    However, in 2018, the Democrats beat us in the House by the largest percentage since Watergate. There is only one Republican Representative left in New Jersey. We have lost all of the Republican Representatives in Orange County.

    We lost 2 of 9 Senate Seats, while Democrats lost only 4 of 26 Senate Seats.

    We lost 7 Governorships.

    Since 2017, we have lost over 300 legislators. (We hold only a paper-thin 31-29 margin in the Arizona House of Representatives.)

    If we keep Trump, we will lose women, independents, the educated, the young and the suburbs, and we will deserve to lose them.

    In 2018 the United States had the highest midterm voter turnout since 1914, when the issue was if we should get into World War I. Imagine, only joining in a World War was more controversial than Trump!

    And if we nominate more establishment Republicans of the likes of bush (generic term) we deserve to lose. It’s really strange that those Republicans who are responsible for the rise of Trump are now complaining the loudest about him.

    With all due respect, I don’t feel an ounce of responsibility for the rise of Trump, any more than the victim of a home invasion is to blame for the criminal who invaded his home.

    Trump is a con man, a bully, a liar, and a bigot.

    The people to blame for Trump are the 40% plurality who voted for him in the 2016 primaries, and the leadership who would not stand up to him.  The people who voted for him knew better and indulged themselves.  They people who acquiesced to him have no courage.

    I will not vote for Trump.  If Trump is nominated in 2020, the Democrats will win the Arizona Legislature and the McCain seat.   The Democrats will then hold both of Arizona’s Senate Seats for the first time since 1952 when Barry Goldwater beat Senate Majority Leader Earnest McFarland.  Unlike 2016 when the Democrats defended 26 of 35 Senate Seats, in 2020, most of the seats to defend are held by Republicans.  The Democrats beat us badly even though the voters in the midterm were substantially older and whiter than the General Election.  If we run Trump, Democrats will win a filibuster-proof Senate, and will vote in the Public Option at a minimum, and maybe socialized medicine.  Is that what you want?

    The choice is up to Republican Primary voters.  A few days ago we just had our biggest loss since Watergate.  It only will get worse if we don’t dump Trump.

    • #87
  28. Ed G. Member
    Ed G.
    @EdG

    KentForrester (View Comment):
    He remains an immature blithering idiot.

    I just don’t see it. Blithering idiots are rarely successful and effective. Trump has a track record of both success and effectiveness in several tough businesses: real estate, show business, and politics. 

    • #88
  29. The Reticulator Member
    The Reticulator
    @TheReticulator

    Gary Robbins (View Comment):

    And if we nominate more establishment Republicans of the likes of bush (generic term) we deserve to lose. It’s really strange that those Republicans who are responsible for the rise of Trump are now complaining the loudest about him.

    With all due respect, I don’t feel an ounce of responsibility for the rise of Trump, any more than the victim of a home invasion is to blame for the criminal who invaded his home.

    I’m sure you don’t feel any responsibility. You could work on it, though. Recognition of that problem is a first step, so maybe you’ll get there.

    • #89
  30. TBA Coolidge
    TBA
    @RobtGilsdorf

    Ed G. (View Comment):

    Decorum….. I think it’s a myth. Was it decorum when the press incessantly harangued Reagan about being a dunce, a cowboy, a madman? What about when Bush refused to counter any haranguing out of decorum yet was still referred to as a chimp and as Bushitler? Was it decorum when Dem presidents were getting bj’s and other tawdry things in the White House? (sorry for the shocking language there). Was it decorum when the press started the fake witch hunts big and small against Trump while ignoring the legitimate questions about Hillary, Obama, and the Dems? No, there is no such thing as decorum – only capitulation to the left’s narrative and worldview. Yes, it sucks that the battle is never ending, but that isn’t our fault and it isn’t Trump’s fault either. What’s the alternative? To go back to sleep in the Matrix? Take the blue pill instead of the red?

    Decorum is when politicians aren’t shooting each other or beating each other with sticks. 

    • #90
Become a member to join the conversation. Or sign in if you're already a member.