Death, Decency, Humanity, and Politics

 

Senator John McCain, after suffering a long battle with a brain tumor, finally passed away on August 25, at the age of 81. The Senator was one of the more influential members of the Congress during my lifetime. For both better and worse, his opinion on the policy issues of the day have driven much of the debate in this country for over the last two decades.

This, of course, doesn’t even to begin to describe his sacrifice during the Vietnam War, where he suffered years of torture at the hands of his Vietnamese captors. This was a true American: imperfect, with lots of friends and enemies, but he certainly sacrificed much for the great cause of his nation.

And yet, like everything else in America today, his passing brought up terrible responses of hate, anger, and downright ugliness.

What is unique about McCain, unlike most of the other examples we have seen in recent years, is how bipartisan that hatred truly is. The hate from the far Left mostly originates from anger toward McCain’s aggressive foreign policy stances, which have promoted intervention and war. The hate from the Right originates from several areas, starting with his “disputed” record in Vietnam (from some corners), to his very mixed record as a Republican and conservative, where his “Maverick” status often let to McCain undercutting base conservatives in an attempt to move to the theoretical political middle. The fact that he killed one of Trump’s promised goals, the repeal and replacement of Obamacare, only hardened those feelings.

Both extremes have been very vocal in their giddiness over the news of McCain’s passing. It is unlike anything else we have seen in recent years. Sure, hatred toward Reagan and Thatcher was quite vocal when they passed, but that came from one side of the aisle. McCain’s haters are ironically bipartisan and enthusiastic on both extremes of the political divide.

To compound matters, President Donald Trump isn’t exactly a paragon of virtue on these matters. As always, in his small, petty, thin-skinned way, he did everything possible even in death to belittle McCain. First, he refused to make a sufficient statement on learning of McCain’s passing. After several hours (where can one imagine his staffers pleading with him to put something out publicly) … he expressed condolences to the McCain family, without ever praising McCain himself. This was compounded by the fact that Trump raised the flag over the White House from half-staff, only a day after McCain’s death, which angered many, especially those in the military community. It was only three days later that Trump could bring himself to put out a satisfactory White House statement on the Senator’s passing.

Now, we can write this off as “Trump being Trump.” And frankly, at this late stage, getting angry at Trump’s petty theatrics is probably a waste of time. He is better ignored than focused upon.

But Trump is a mirror on which we might be able to understand the state of the social climate in America as a whole. Many refuse to admit this, but Trump’s actions echo much of our public’s reflexive responses to political disputes these days. And McCain’s death isn’t the only recent example.

The Mollie Tibbetts case comes to mind.

Tibbetts, a University of Iowa student, was kidnapped and murdered a month ago. Her case made national news, as the frantic search for the young woman continued. After finding her body, it was quickly discovered a young local man had committed the crime. The fact that this young man was in the country illegally, however, set off the expected political chain reaction one might expect.

The political Right quickly made Mollie the newest in a line of poster children for the risks of open borders. This, for obvious reasons, had a poor reaction from the media, who quickly attacked conservatives for “politicizing a tragedy.”

To be frank, there is absolutely no question the Right was politicizing a tragedy. The irony is that for the last several years, we’ve been told that politicizing tragedies was precisely what the country needed to fix policy failures at the federal level. Every time a mass shooting has occurred, we’ve heard this refrain … just from the Left instead of the Right.

Clearly, there are political issues involved. These days, when isn’t politics involved? For me, however, this goes back to my concern about the fundamental shattering of basic civility and common decency in American society.

Both McCain’s death and the Tibbetts tragedy highlight how vicious our daily rancor has become, even with the simplest of human interactions. Common decency once dictated that we would, for the briefest of moments, express sympathy to the families who had lost a loved one, and that our personal animosities and political ambitions would be brushed aside, for the greater good.

That commonality of humanity is lacking today.

Politicization of every single facet of life has had massive detrimental repercussions. Conservatives have warned about the ever-encroaching effect of government in our daily lives; we are now seeing some of the real-world effects of this seismic shift, and these reactions are an example of them. The inability to view our political “enemies” as fellow Americans, with some level of common purpose and beliefs, is undermining the very fabric of what it used to be to be an American.

Additionally, using these events as moments to advance political causes is not without some logic, but the tactic is not benign. Tibbetts’ family rightfully pleaded with the nation to avoid using their daughter’s death as a political tool. I fundamentally wish people had heeded that call. But in an era where both sides are adamant about winning the political battle, the feelings of the mourning family seems irrelevant for either political tribe.

There were moments in which we could unite as a country, regardless of party affiliation, policy differences, and general disagreements. The assassination of JFK. The moon landing. The 1980 USA Hockey Gold Medal team. The Challenger explosion. 9/11. We used to be able to come together at those moments and weep or celebrate together.

Smaller tragedies, like those described above, would bring us together for a few moments. Now, they are events that drive us further apart.

Sadly, I am not sure this trajectory can be reversed in the short run. We have become a more coarse, hard-edged society, unwilling to give even the smallest concession to our “enemies,” even at a moment of suffering and weakness. Some hyperpartisans believe showing such empathy at moments of tragedy shows our weakness; the irony is, the lack of showing such emotion is what is undermining our country in the long run.

Eventually, we must ask ourselves: if we are not a society that can come together in any way, even in moments of greatness, sadness, and heartache … what kind of country are we?

Published in Immigration, Politics
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  1. RufusRJones Member
    RufusRJones
    @RufusRJones

    Also, “RINO” is an actual political definition. 

    • #31
  2. RufusRJones Member
    RufusRJones
    @RufusRJones

    I read Breitbart’s book when it came out. That’s where I first heard about the Frankfurt school and critical theory. I thought it was a good book. I never saw any criticism of it. We’re living it out in spades now, especially because the tea party was more or less neutralized. 

    • #32
  3. Percival Thatcher
    Percival
    @Percival

    Jon Gabriel, Ed. (View Comment):

    Pradheep Shanker (View Comment):

    I think social media clearly has changed the dynamic. Whether it is the cause of this, has amplified it, or something else, can be debated.

    Spending too much time on Twitter, as I do, really captures the dynamic you describe above. The constant fighting is a digital WW1 — each side desparate to seize one more useless trench, hill, or acre, imagining that will win the battle for their side.

    Who gets the most attention on Twitter? The whack jobs. Their blatherings are reconstituted as the opinion of everyone allegedly on their side.

    The signal-to-noise ratio is way too low.

    • #33
  4. Chris B Member
    Chris B
    @ChrisB

    George Townsend (View Comment):

    Chris B (View Comment):
    The White House extended Senator McCain exactly the honor specified in the official Flag Code. Why, exactly, should be McCain be honored above any other Senator or member of Congress? He was not Associate Justice of the Supreme Court, a Secretary of an executive or military department, a former Vice President, or the Governor of a State, territory, or possession; who are persons to be honored by a flag flown half staff until their internment. It is unlikely that Trump even had a hand in this, as the situation is explicitly codified to be carried out exactly as it was performed, and is something that was likely managed by the White House staff.

    Because he served with honor, grace, and distinction in the armed services, and got crippled by evil people for his trouble. If you hate this good man so much that you can’t give him the dignity in death that he earned ten times over, this speaks volumes to the kind of person you and others like you are.

    I didn’t say I hate McCain. I certainly disagreed with him on a number of political stances, but that’s not hatred.

    Many people have served this country with honor, grace, and distinction without having the flag lowered for them at all. It was lowered for McCain because he was a sitting Senator at the time of his death. Lowering the flag for any reason outside of what is officially described in the flag code is up to the President’s discretion.

    John McCain did not like Donald Trump, and because of this asked that the sitting President not give him special honors a President would normally extend someone with his history of service (attending his funeral, giving an eulogy, etc). By giving him nothing more than what official code said he is due, Trump respected McCain’s wishes. You are complaining that McCain was not given special recognition beyond his due and against his wishes, then claiming that thinking this is right impugns my character?

    • #34
  5. RufusRJones Member
    RufusRJones
    @RufusRJones

    They shamed the White House into changing the flag protocol because _________.

    I have my opinion.

    • #35
  6. George Townsend Inactive
    George Townsend
    @GeorgeTownsend

    Chris B (View Comment):
    John McCain did not like Donald Trump, and because of this asked that the sitting President not give him special honors a President would normally extend someone with his history of service (attending his funeral, giving an eulogy, etc). By giving him nothing more than what official code said he is due, Trump respected McCain’s wishes. You are complaining that McCain was not given special recognition beyond his due and against his wishes, then claiming that thinking this is right impugns my character?

    John McCain was a humble man. While it can be argued that all people should be given what they are asked for at the time of their departure, this has not always been carried out, nor should it be, I would say. A man of distinction is due certain things, especially when he has been so public a man.

    If you say that you did not hate McCain, I’ll take your word for it. Donald Trump certainly gave every indication that he hated McCain, when, for no reason at all, he denied him his hero statis years ago, by  saying that he did not like men who had been captured. This from a man who had not served one hour in uniform. The way he has conducted himself throughout this ordeal will be a blot on his name and reputation – along with everything else he has said and done since announcing for the Presidency.

    • #36
  7. Henry Racette Member
    Henry Racette
    @HenryRacette

    George Townsend (View Comment):
    The way he has conducted himself throughout this ordeal will be a blot on his name and reputation – along with everything else he has said and done since announcing for the Presidency.

    Two thoughts.

    First, President Trump and Senator McCain are/were each strongly polarizing figures, with many decent people and reasonable arguments on both sides in each case.  Perhaps it would be wise to bury their enmity along with the late Senator, chalk it up to a clash of powerful and independent spirits, and move on.

    Secondly, quite a bit of what President Trump has said and done since becoming President pleases me very much and, I think, reflects well on him. Quite a bit of what he’s said, and a little bit of what he’s done, displeases me as well and, I think, reflects poorly on him.

    When it comes to President Trump, Ricochet is a little center-right microcosm of the larger social media world, a place where hyperbole and misplaced absolutism tend to run away with us. I think we should fight that very human tendency to simplify people to caricatures and then idolize or demonize the results.

    • #37
  8. RufusRJones Member
    RufusRJones
    @RufusRJones

    What would be perfect right now would be for @davesussman to interview Minnesota’s own @Shabbosgoy on the current nature of the media and the political system. One hour. He’s been on Fox and all kinds of regional media. 

    • #38
  9. George Townsend Inactive
    George Townsend
    @GeorgeTownsend

    Henry Racette (View Comment):

    George Townsend (View Comment):
    The way he has conducted himself throughout this ordeal will be a blot on his name and reputation – along with everything else he has said and done since announcing for the Presidency.

    Two thoughts.

    First, President Trump and Senator McCain are/were each strongly polarizing figures, with many decent people and reasonable arguments on both sides in each case. Perhaps it would be wise to bury their enmity along with the late Senator, chalk it up to a clash of powerful and independent spirits, and move on.

    Secondly, quite a bit of what President Trump has said and done since becoming President pleases me very much and, I think, reflects well on him. Quite a bit of what he’s said, and a little bit of what he’s done, displeases me as well and, I think, reflects poorly on him.

    When it comes to President Trump, Ricochet is a little center-right microcosm of the larger social media world, a place where hyperbole and misplaced absolutism tend to run away with us. I think we should fight that very human tendency to simplify people to caricatures and then idolize or demonize the results.

    I’m sorry, Henry. I guess I admire your attempt to be peace-maker, but I have become increasingly appalled by the President’s behavior in many things. Except for trade, his policies have been exemplary. But, as you well know, public life is more than policy. Like it or not, we do look to our leaders for guidance, and to fashion good behavior. The fact that many throughout history have failed at this should not keep us from hoping for this outcome, and for decrying the men and women who do not give it to us. 

    Donald Trump is a disgusting human being, and as much as I am glad he won the election, and has given us a fine collection of judges, I shall never forgive him for further staining the Presidency, and giving our children the idea that it doesn’t matter that good people serve in our most cherished institutions or not. It is only policy that matters.

    • #39
  10. thelonious Member
    thelonious
    @thelonious

    George Townsend (View Comment):

    Chris B (View Comment):
    John McCain did not like Donald Trump, and because of this asked that the sitting President not give him special honors a President would normally extend someone with his history of service (attending his funeral, giving an eulogy, etc). By giving him nothing more than what official code said he is due, Trump respected McCain’s wishes. You are complaining that McCain was not given special recognition beyond his due and against his wishes, then claiming that thinking this is right impugns my character?

    John McCain was a humble man. 

    I’ve heard many eulogize him as a humble man but I just don’t see it. His muggimg to make him the biggest part of the story voting against repealing the ACA isn’t an act of humility.  Like most politicians he had an outsized ego. I’m not here to bash the man but we should at least be honest about him.

     

    • #40
  11. RufusRJones Member
    RufusRJones
    @RufusRJones

    thelonious (View Comment):

    George Townsend (View Comment):

    Chris B (View Comment):
    John McCain did not like Donald Trump, and because of this asked that the sitting President not give him special honors a President would normally extend someone with his history of service (attending his funeral, giving an eulogy, etc). By giving him nothing more than what official code said he is due, Trump respected McCain’s wishes. You are complaining that McCain was not given special recognition beyond his due and against his wishes, then claiming that thinking this is right impugns my character?

    John McCain was a humble man.

    I’ve heard many eulogize him as a humble man but I just don’t see it. His muggimg to make him the biggest part of the story voting against repealing the ACA isn’t an act of humility. Like most politicians he had an outsized ego. I’m not here to bash the man but we should at least be honest about him.

     

    That is the way I see it. 

    • #41
  12. Henry Racette Member
    Henry Racette
    @HenryRacette

    George Townsend (View Comment):
    I’m sorry, Henry. I guess I admire your attempt to be peace-maker, but I have become increasingly appalled by the President’s behavior in many things.

    I understand. And I certainly won’t try to change your mind; I also have serious problems with President Trump.

    But what you said was that everything he’s said and done is a blot on his presidency. We can disagree without going overboard in our rhetoric.

    • #42
  13. RufusRJones Member
    RufusRJones
    @RufusRJones

    For the record, I don’t know how anyone can be very knowledgeable about any of the scandals McCain has on his record. I heard he had a vicious political machine working on his behalf, though. 

    • #43
  14. Skyler Coolidge
    Skyler
    @Skyler

    George Townsend (View Comment):

    Chris B (View Comment):
    The White House extended Senator McCain exactly the honor specified in the official Flag Code. Why, exactly, should be McCain be honored above any other Senator or member of Congress? He was not Associate Justice of the Supreme Court, a Secretary of an executive or military department, a former Vice President, or the Governor of a State, territory, or possession; who are persons to be honored by a flag flown half staff until their internment. It is unlikely that Trump even had a hand in this, as the situation is explicitly codified to be carried out exactly as it was performed, and is something that was likely managed by the White House staff.

    Because he served with honor, grace, and distinction in the armed services, and got crippled by evil people for his trouble. If you hate this good man so much that you can’t give him the dignity in death that he earned ten times over, this speaks volumes to the kind of person you and others like you are.

    I know a lot of people maimed from being in a war.   None of them voted to not repeal Obamacare.  None of them were in the Keating 5.

    • #44
  15. Skyler Coolidge
    Skyler
    @Skyler

    George Townsend (View Comment):
    John McCain was a humble man.

    Is this the comedy channel?  No one that runs for national office is humble, even less so those that win.  John McCain is the antithesis of humble by any definition.

    • #45
  16. Jon1979 Inactive
    Jon1979
    @Jon1979

    Percival (View Comment):

    Jon Gabriel, Ed. (View Comment):

    Pradheep Shanker (View Comment):

    I think social media clearly has changed the dynamic. Whether it is the cause of this, has amplified it, or something else, can be debated.

    Spending too much time on Twitter, as I do, really captures the dynamic you describe above. The constant fighting is a digital WW1 — each side desparate to seize one more useless trench, hill, or acre, imagining that will win the battle for their side.

    Who gets the most attention on Twitter? The whack jobs. Their blatherings are reconstituted as the opinion of everyone allegedly on their side.

    The signal-to-noise ratio is way too low.

    Clay Travis had a great point on his “Outkick the Coverage” blog this week that ESPN got itself into trouble by thinking the angry blatherings of progressive whack jobs on Twitter represented some huge mass of fandom out and about across America, in part because the whack job’s liberal ideas jibed with their own thinking. They wanted to believe there was some huge audience out there craving a huge mix of woke politics with sports, because Twitter told them so, and former ESPN president John Skipper then built a lineup to feed the Twitter trolls, but which drove everyone else away.

    Pull out a little from just ESPN to ABC News, or CNN, MSNBC and the rest, and the same phenomenon is happening — liberal execs see angry progressive twetters who post way above their signal-to-noise ratio, and because they in general share the same beliefs, convince themselves that the Twitter trolls somehow are the majority, and craft their programming to make them happy (and then when the ratings don’t come because of that, tell advertisers in the fractured media world of 2018, it’s almost impossible to get better ratings with so many viewing options, so there’s no reason not to pander to the angry Twitter trolls, because they’re a larger audience than the group of viewers who don’t want hyper-partisan, angry programming).

    • #46
  17. George Townsend Inactive
    George Townsend
    @GeorgeTownsend

    thelonious (View Comment):

    George Townsend (View Comment):

    Chris B (View Comment):
    John McCain did not like Donald Trump, and because of this asked that the sitting President not give him special honors a President would normally extend someone with his history of service (attending his funeral, giving an eulogy, etc). By giving him nothing more than what official code said he is due, Trump respected McCain’s wishes. You are complaining that McCain was not given special recognition beyond his due and against his wishes, then claiming that thinking this is right impugns my character?

    John McCain was a humble man.

    I’ve heard many eulogize him as a humble man but I just don’t see it. His muggimg to make him the biggest part of the story voting against repealing the ACA isn’t an act of humility. Like most politicians he had an outsized ego. I’m not here to bash the man but we should at least be honest about him.

     

    Fine. Be honest. We all have egos. Especially politicians. It doesn’t detract from his humility. He often made fun of himself. That is the hallmark of true humility. I appreciate the fact that you don’t want to bash him, and I appreciate it. But why must we quibble over everything? John McCain was a humble man. Why can’t we give him his due?

    • #47
  18. George Townsend Inactive
    George Townsend
    @GeorgeTownsend

    Skyler (View Comment):

    George Townsend (View Comment):
    John McCain was a humble man.

    Is this the comedy channel? No one that runs for national office is humble, even less so those that win. John McCain is the antithesis of humble by any definition.

    Again we don’t choose to give him his due. Fine, he wasn’t humble the way Mother Teresa was humble. But he was humble. Next thing you’ll be saying is that Ronald Reagan was not humble. There are degrees to things. Is this hated and attack on this decent man ever going to stop? It is truly disgusting how one can’t be permitted to say a kind word about him.

    I’m through talking to people who will show no decency.

    • #48
  19. RufusRJones Member
    RufusRJones
    @RufusRJones

    He’s a media sensation and a war hero. 

    • #49
  20. Skyler Coolidge
    Skyler
    @Skyler

    George Townsend (View Comment):

    Skyler (View Comment):

    George Townsend (View Comment):
    John McCain was a humble man.

    Is this the comedy channel? No one that runs for national office is humble, even less so those that win. John McCain is the antithesis of humble by any definition.

    Again we don’t choose to give him his due. Fine, he wasn’t humble the way Mother Teresa was humble. But he was humble. Next thing you’ll be saying is that Ronald Reagan was not humble. There are degrees to things. Is this hated and attack on this decent man ever going to stop? It is truly disgusting how one can’t be permitted to say a kind word about him.

    I’m through talking to people who will show no decency.

    You can say kind things about him.  I’m sure he loved his dog.  And his child. And his wife, so long as she wasn’t crippled in a car accident.  But he had a mercurial temper, an enormous conceit, and was anything but humble.  An occasional bit of self-deprecation intended to deflect criticism is not a sign of humility.  

    Ronald Reagan was not humble, but it’s not as easy to see.  He was an actor and he well understood the value of presenting a positive image.   The difference, among many others, between Reagan and McCain is that Reagan did things for the people of this nation based on his belief in the merits of individual freedom.  McCain did things for himself and had no discernable ideology.

    • #50
  21. RufusRJones Member
    RufusRJones
    @RufusRJones

    Ronald Reagan busted his (colloquialism) studying policy, and philosophy, and figuring out how to communicate it. I wonder who even comes close, these days. He would have wiped out the ACA without a second thought.

    • #51
  22. DonG Coolidge
    DonG
    @DonG

    George Townsend (View Comment):
    John McCain was a humble man.

    He was a Senator.  Very few Senators are humble.  If he was humble he would have resigned when diagnosed.  The people of Arizona deserve an active and mentally competent Senator.  Instead, he selfishly hung onto the job, because he liked being treated like royalty.  The whole flag controversy would not have happened, if he would have resigned last year.  I expect most Senators would make the same choice.

    • #52
  23. EJHill Podcaster
    EJHill
    @EJHill

    George Townsend: John McCain was a humble man. Why can’t we give him his due?

    Because he was not gracious or particularly humble. During the 1992 campaign three reporters witnessed him calling Cindy a “trollop” and Samantha Bee’s favorite “C” word in front of his aides because she had the audacity to kid him about his thinning hair. He regularly berated fellow Senators, and even ordinary citizens with language totally unacceptable on prime time television let alone these pages.

    His list of screwups is longer than your arm. He always fell back on his name and the mythology of his own creation.

    • #53
  24. thelonious Member
    thelonious
    @thelonious

    George Townsend (View Comment):

    thelonious (View Comment):

    George Townsend (View Comment):

    Chris B (View Comment):
    John McCain did not like Donald Trump, and because of this asked that the sitting President not give him special honors a President would normally extend someone with his history of service (attending his funeral, giving an eulogy, etc). By giving him nothing more than what official code said he is due, Trump respected McCain’s wishes. You are complaining that McCain was not given special recognition beyond his due and against his wishes, then claiming that thinking this is right impugns my character?

    John McCain was a humble man.

    I’ve heard many eulogize him as a humble man but I just don’t see it. His muggimg to make him the biggest part of the story voting against repealing the ACA isn’t an act of humility. Like most politicians he had an outsized ego. I’m not here to bash the man but we should at least be honest about him.

     

    Fine. Be honest. We all have egos. Especially politicians. It doesn’t detract from his humility. He often made fun of himself. That is the hallmark of true humility. I appreciate the fact that you don’t want to bash him, and I appreciate it. But why must we quibble over everything? John McCain was a humble man. Why can’t we give him his due?

    I can’t give him his due for being humble. Sorry.  Doesn’t mean he wasn’t a great man.  Even with his faults I have a great amount of admiration for the man. He joins great company for non-humble human beings.  George Patton and Michael Jordan weren’t or aren’t humble.

    • #54
  25. George Townsend Inactive
    George Townsend
    @GeorgeTownsend

    EJHill (View Comment):

    George Townsend: John McCain was a humble man. Why can’t we give him his due?

    Because he was not gracious or particularly humble. During the 1992 campaign three reporters witnessed him calling Cindy a “trollop” and Samantha Bee’s favorite “C” word in front of his aides because she had the audacity to kid him about his thinning hair. He regularly berated fellow Senators, and even ordinary citizens with language totally unacceptable on prime time television let alone these pages.

    His list of screwups is longer than your arm. He always fell back on his name and the mythology of his own creation.

    So Now you like reporters, when they say something you like! The hate continues, and all I can say is that I hope God forgives you for it. I won’t.

    • #55
  26. George Townsend Inactive
    George Townsend
    @GeorgeTownsend

    thelonious (View Comment):

    George Townsend (View Comment):

    thelonious (View Comment):

    George Townsend (View Comment):

    Chris B (View Comment):
    John McCain did not like Donald Trump, and because of this asked that the sitting President not give him special honors a President would normally extend someone with his history of service (attending his funeral, giving an eulogy, etc). By giving him nothing more than what official code said he is due, Trump respected McCain’s wishes. You are complaining that McCain was not given special recognition beyond his due and against his wishes, then claiming that thinking this is right impugns my character?

    John McCain was a humble man.

    I’ve heard many eulogize him as a humble man but I just don’t see it. His muggimg to make him the biggest part of the story voting against repealing the ACA isn’t an act of humility. Like most politicians he had an outsized ego. I’m not here to bash the man but we should at least be honest about him.

     

    Fine. Be honest. We all have egos. Especially politicians. It doesn’t detract from his humility. He often made fun of himself. That is the hallmark of true humility. I appreciate the fact that you don’t want to bash him, and I appreciate it. But why must we quibble over everything? John McCain was a humble man. Why can’t we give him his due?

    I can’t give him his due for being humble. Sorry. Doesn’t mean he wasn’t a great man. Even with his faults I have a great amount of admiration for the man. He joins great company for non-humble human beings. George Patton and Michael Jordan weren’t or aren’t humble.

    At least I will give you points for not being venomous. And I am glad you admire him. I thank you for that. He was a great man. I do disagree about the humility. Of course he was. There are degrees of that. If he didn’t have a nice amount of humility, he would have gone home when he was offered that option in Vietnam.

    Thank you for your comments. We disagree, to an extent. But you sound like a  good man.

    • #56
  27. EJHill Podcaster
    EJHill
    @EJHill

    George Townsend: So Now you like reporters, when they say something you like! The hate continues, and all I can say is that I hope God forgives you for it. I won’t.

    Oh, George. I’m not looking for your forgiveness, nor anyone’s “permission.” I certainly have no delusions about Trump, McCain or any other mere mortal. Both are self-made men, in as much that they both created a mythology about themselves. The difference is, you apparently buy into McCain’s. And from as far as I can tell, most Trump supporters don’t buy into his, they simply don’t care if it’s true or not. (Which seems to be the most infuriating thing they could possibly do.)

     

     

     

    • #57
  28. Jager Coolidge
    Jager
    @Jager

    George Townsend (View Comment):

    EJHill (View Comment):

    George Townsend: John McCain was a humble man. Why can’t we give him his due?

    Because he was not gracious or particularly humble. During the 1992 campaign three reporters witnessed him calling Cindy a “trollop” and Samantha Bee’s favorite “C” word in front of his aides because she had the audacity to kid him about his thinning hair. He regularly berated fellow Senators, and even ordinary citizens with language totally unacceptable on prime time television let alone these pages.

    His list of screwups is longer than your arm. He always fell back on his name and the mythology of his own creation.

    So Now you like reporters, when they say something you like! The hate continues, and all I can say is that I hope God forgives you for it. I won’t.

    Ok so disagreeing about the character or legacy of a Senator is now a mortal sin that needs God’s forgiveness but will get none from you?

    I like reporters when they report straight facts with direct quotes from named sources and the sources will corroborate the story if asked. All of these things did happen. They are all part of who John McCain was, we have no saints in public office. He was a War Hero and a jerk.  

    I have been accused in comments and in the pod casts of being a member of a cult for supporting Trump. I fully admit Trump has flaws, I just don’t prioritize them above other things. You seem unwilling to accept the documented failings of a mortal man. Maybe there is a “cult” of John McCain. 

    • #58
  29. Stad Coolidge
    Stad
    @Stad

    Pradheep Shanker: Eventually, we must ask ourselves: if we are not a society that can come together in any way, even in moments of greatness, sadness, and heartache … what kind of country are we?

    I think we’ve reached the point of no return; we are two separate countries, and we should take steps to make it formal.

    • #59
  30. RufusRJones Member
    RufusRJones
    @RufusRJones

    Stad (View Comment):

    Pradheep Shanker: Eventually, we must ask ourselves: if we are not a society that can come together in any way, even in moments of greatness, sadness, and heartache … what kind of country are we?

    I think we’ve reached the point of no return; we are two separate countries, and we should take steps to make it formal.

    There are nominal Republicans that are more statist than Trump that accuse him of being statist. The left and the Keynesians have us right where they want us. 

    • #60
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