New York: This is What “I’m Personally Opposed to Abortion, But” Gets You

 

From the New York State Catholic Conference Action Center:

In his recent Executive Budget proposal, Governor Andrew Cuomo included a radical bill that would expand late-term abortions in New York State. The language of this proposal is similar to past attempts, but goes even further by legalizing infanticide when a baby is born alive during an attempted abortion. The bill also would eliminate New York’s ban on late-term abortions, empower non-doctors to perform abortions, and remove protections against unwanted or coerced abortions.

This is horrific.

I would hope that any Ricochet members from New York will send a letter to your State Senator to oppose this horrific bill.

Mr. Cuomo claims to be a Catholic. That he not only supports abortion, but now infanticide, is incomprehensible. Where is his bishop on this? A “strongly worded statement” will not do. Disciplinary action by the bishop is the only way to start to turn the tide on these heretical catholic politicians.

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  1. RufusRJones Member
    RufusRJones
    @RufusRJones

    Randy Webster (View Comment):

    RufusRJones (View Comment):

    Basil Fawlty (View Comment):
    Unfortunately, it’s an intractable issue.

    You can’t change the centralized nature of political power structures in this country. It has to be dealt with realistically. It started with Woodrow Wilson et. al. and it has gone one way ever since. That’s the issue.

    It started with the Louisiana Purchase, something Jefferson clearly didn’t have the power to do.

    That is 100% true.

    A banana republic is the natural order of things, I’m convinced now.

    • #61
  2. Randy Webster Inactive
    Randy Webster
    @RandyWebster

    RufusRJones (View Comment):
    A banana republic is the natural order of things, I’m convinced now.

    It takes a lot of work to avoid it, and we ain’t working very hard.

    • #62
  3. Front Seat Cat Member
    Front Seat Cat
    @FrontSeatCat

    Cuomo needs to be ex-communicated – His Italian ancestors are probably rolling in their graves – There is something wrong with him, and it is seriously sad that his church is not calling him out on this, and at the very least, counseling him on his grave errors, for his soul’s sake – he has further opened a door to evil.

    • #63
  4. Randy Webster Inactive
    Randy Webster
    @RandyWebster

    I think it was Andrew Klavan who said that anything before “but” doesn’t count.

    • #64
  5. Spin Inactive
    Spin
    @Spin

    Henry Racette (View Comment):
    Culture of Death

    I hate it when ^ that ^ happens….

    • #65
  6. Spin Inactive
    Spin
    @Spin

    Henry Racette (View Comment):
    I can’t speak to the veracity of this particular set of tweets (incidentally, I kind of hate tweets), but it seems worth pointing out that ex-President Obama (and incidentally, I kind of love typing that) made a name for himself — or would have, if the press had actually reported it — while an Illinois state senator, by opposing (repeatedly) legislation that would have protected the life of a child who accidentally survived an abortion attempt. As I recall, he stood alone in his opposition to it, though I could be mistaken on that detail; certainly, he was conspicuous in defending the “right” of the accidentally-born to die.

    Anyway. Ex-president. Ex.

    Sidenote:  home many people do you know who said to you after Obama was elected “I can’t believe he is so bad on abortion!”  It’s been a half a dozen or so for me.  I say “That was his only legislative record prior to running….

    There is something to be said for thinking for yourself.

    • #66
  7. AltarGirl Inactive
    AltarGirl
    @CM

    Spin (View Comment):

    Henry Racette (View Comment):
    I can’t speak to the veracity of this particular set of tweets (incidentally, I kind of hate tweets), but it seems worth pointing out that ex-President Obama (and incidentally, I kind of love typing that) made a name for himself — or would have, if the press had actually reported it — while an Illinois state senator, by opposing (repeatedly) legislation that would have protected the life of a child who accidentally survived an abortion attempt. As I recall, he stood alone in his opposition to it, though I could be mistaken on that detail; certainly, he was conspicuous in defending the “right” of the accidentally-born to die.

    Anyway. Ex-president. Ex.

    Sidenote: home many people do you know who said to you after Obama was elected “I can’t believe he is so bad on abortion!” It’s been a half a dozen or so for me. I say “That was his only legislative record prior to running….

    There is something to be said for thinking for yourself.

    This is what removed my blinders on Obama. How much must he have cared to fail to maintain his empty slate by voting for *this*?

    • #67
  8. 9thDistrictNeighbor Member
    9thDistrictNeighbor
    @9thDistrictNeighbor

    Scott Wilmot (View Comment):
    (Cardinal Ratzinger:) …heedless of the consequences for the existence and future of human beings with regard to the formation of culture and social behaviour….

    Look what has happened to the culture and social behavior in the last 50 years, as legislatures and the culture-drivers on the left continue to chip away, bit by bit.

    Scott Wilmot (View Comment):
    (ibid.:) …call for solutions that respect ethical principles in a coherent and fundamental way….

    Mario Cuomo’s “personally opposed” ethical principles are a far cry from Andrew Cuomo’s principles of political self-preservation.

    Kate Braestrup (View Comment):
    I really hope Roe does get overturned. These conversations so badly need to happen, state by state!

    From what I’ve read, New York law still says that you can’t do an abortion after 24 weeks unless the mother’s life is in danger–which is why Jennifer Morbelli (also catholic) went to LeRoy Carhart in Maryland for the 33-week abortion that cost her and her daughter their lives.  Cuomo is couching this as bringing NY law into line with Federal law. He’s been trying to do this legisatively since at least 2013.

    • #68
  9. AltarGirl Inactive
    AltarGirl
    @CM

    9thDistrictNeighbor (View Comment):
    Cuomo is couching this as bringing NY law into line with Federal law. He’s been trying to do this legisatively since at least 2013.

    I don’t understand. She didn’t go to Mexico, she went to a US liberal state.

    How would NY having this law save her life? Because only NY cares about NYers?

    • #69
  10. James Gawron Inactive
    James Gawron
    @JamesGawron

    Scott Wilmot: The language of this proposal is similar to past attempts, but goes even further by legalizing infanticide when a baby is born alive during an attempted abortion. The bill also would eliminate New York’s ban on late-term abortions, empower non-doctors to perform abortions, and remove protections against unwanted or coerced abortions.

    Scott,

    It is hard to imagine the amoral ideologue lunatic that would suggest this. Much less a senior politician of a major political party that would endorse it.

    I am not Catholic.  I am an Orthodox Jew. My reading of Orthodox Halachah requires me to posit a period of 40 days after conception when the possible pregnancy can be ended. This is viewed as an indeterminate period. After that, it is clear that Jewish Orthodox Law recognizes an existing human life and does not support any form of abortion other than in the literal case when the woman would die as a result of the continued pregnancy. This has always been justified only by the principle of “self-defense”.

    From my perspective, the difference between Jewish Orthodox Law and Catholic Doctrine is much smaller than the huge area of agreement. How we could have reached the point at which the above amoral (really anti-moral) legal remedies could be even suggested, I don’t know. I am sure you understand the internal politics of Catholicism better than I. I can only tell you that both the content and the attitude of this “suggestion” from Cuomo is repulsive.

    Regards,

    Jim

    • #70
  11. 9thDistrictNeighbor Member
    9thDistrictNeighbor
    @9thDistrictNeighbor

    AltarGirl (View Comment):
    How would NY having this law save her life? Because only NY cares about NYers?

    It doesn’t have anything to do with her life, but solely with the fact that due to her inability to have the abortion in New York State, she traveled to Carhart, who allegedly was a safe, experienced practitioner, a few notches above a Kermit Gosnell.

    • #71
  12. AltarGirl Inactive
    AltarGirl
    @CM

    9thDistrictNeighbor (View Comment):

    AltarGirl (View Comment):
    How would NY having this law save her life? Because only NY cares about NYers?

    It doesn’t have anything to do with her life, but solely with the fact that due to her inability to have the abortion in New York State, she traveled to Carhart, who allegedly was a safe, experienced practitioner, a few notches above a Kermit Gosnell.

    Still doesn’t compute. It’s legal in MA, right?

    • #72
  13. OmegaPaladin Moderator
    OmegaPaladin
    @OmegaPaladin

    RufusRJones (View Comment):

    Larry3435 (View Comment):
    the “morning after” pill

    This is not an abortifacient, BTW.

    The morning-after pill does not prevent conception, as by definition conception has already occured.  According to the AHFS reference on medications, it is not known how high dose estrogens and progesterone analogs prevents pregnancy. It is not able to prevent pregnancy after a short window passes.  The theory I have heard most is that it prevents implantation of the zygote.

    If you hold that life begins at conception, as is Catholic teaching, the morning-after pill is equivalent to a very early abortion.  I do not believe this, but it is useless to argue this when Catholic teaching is clear.  Think of it like how you revere the words of von Mises.

    • #73
  14. RufusRJones Member
    RufusRJones
    @RufusRJones

    OmegaPaladin (View Comment):

    RufusRJones (View Comment):

    Larry3435 (View Comment):
    the “morning after” pill

    This is not an abortifacient, BTW.

    The morning-after pill does not prevent conception, as by definition conception has already occured. According to the AHFS reference on medications, it is not known how high dose estrogens and progesterone analogs prevents pregnancy. It is not able to prevent pregnancy after a short window passes. The theory I have heard most is that it prevents implantation of the zygote.

    If you hold that life begins at conception, as is Catholic teaching, the morning-after pill is equivalent to a very early abortion. I do not believe this, but it is useless to argue this when Catholic teaching is clear. Think of it like how you revere the words of von Mises.

    Fair enough.

    • #74
  15. RufusRJones Member
    RufusRJones
    @RufusRJones

    PP abortion quotas 

     

    • #75
  16. Scott Wilmot Member
    Scott Wilmot
    @ScottWilmot

    Satan wins the battle.

    • #76
  17. OmegaPaladin Moderator
    OmegaPaladin
    @OmegaPaladin

    Safe, legal, and rare was a lie.

    Abortion is the Left’s (un)holiest sacrament.

    • #77
  18. RufusRJones Member
    RufusRJones
    @RufusRJones

    OmegaPaladin (View Comment):

    Safe, legal, and rare was a lie.

    Abortion is the Left’s (un)holiest sacrament.

    The other thing that’s interesting about this is, you literally can’t pay for Medicare, socialized medicine, and social security with the birthrates we’ve had since the pill and abortion. 

    • #78
  19. CarolJoy, Above Top Secret Coolidge
    CarolJoy, Above Top Secret
    @CarolJoy

    RufusRJones (View Comment):

    Judithann Campbell (View Comment):
    How would normalizing abortion serve to end abortion?

    “Normalizing” is your term, not mine. Think about the dynamics I already described. It doesn’t work to end abortion. It puts power and fixed overhead in all the wrong places.

    Just making the moral case is going to work better.

    Normalizing is what it would do, though. Like I said, I haven’t studied this and don’t know the history, but I don’t think the present state of affairs is something that came about because of pro-lifers: it seems more likely that doctors who didn’t want to actually become pro-life, but didn’t want to be too closely associated with abortion either are probably the main supporters of the status quo.

    I mean really. If most doctors refuse to perform abortions, what are pro-lifers supposed to do about that? And why would we object to that?

    For a time period of around  20 years, I encountered  17 women who had had a late term abortion. All had been talked into it due to an ultrasound that revealed the fetus they were carrying would produce a child with hydroencelephapy (Spelling?) They were told that the baby would die soon after birth.

    I can’t explain how tortured these women were. I have known women who had still births. Yes, there was grief that never went away. On no level did they believe with overwhelming intensity that they had caused the baby to die.

    These poor women had a sense of guilt.

    One woman stood out from this crowd. She had been raised Catholic in Argentina. She fully expected to have at least three children. By the time she was pregnant with her third child, she had lived here for ten years.

    She got some bad news. Her doctor told her that she must submit to an abortion, as the fetus was not viable and that it would be wrong to bring such a hugely deformed baby into the world.

    She was beside herself over this decision. In the midst of inner turmoil, she heard her grandmother in Argentina was ill and needed her there. She  booked a plane ticket for her home country. She was so caught up in seeing to her grand mother that soon she lost track of time. One day she realized her delivery date was a week or two away.

    On her due date, she went into labor. A healthy perfect baby boy was born. All his fingers and toes were there, and everything else as well.

    Doctors in Argentina said that her uterus was surrounded by scar tissue, from an operation that had removed uterine  fibroids years before. She at no time had an unhealthy child in her tummy. It made me wonder how many other women have been led into a late term abortion, by unrelenting doctors who are not guided by God’s law or imagination and concern.

    • #79
  20. CarolJoy, Above Top Secret Coolidge
    CarolJoy, Above Top Secret
    @CarolJoy

    RufusRJones (View Comment):

    OmegaPaladin (View Comment):

    Safe, legal, and rare was a lie.

    Abortion is the Left’s (un)holiest sacrament.

    The other thing that’s interesting about this is, you literally can’t pay for Medicare, socialized medicine, and social security with the birthrates we’ve had since the pill and abortion.

    However with the many factors causing people to die earlier and earlier of cancer and immune disorders like ALS, it might not matter. You don’t need Social Security when you are dead.

    Researchers whose work has been suppressed have tried to show us that constantly being bombarded with microwave frequencies so we can use cell phones or watch movies will induce wide spread infertility a generation from now.

    • #80
  21. Randy Webster Inactive
    Randy Webster
    @RandyWebster

    CarolJoy, Above Top Secret (View Comment):
    Researchers whose work has been suppressed have tried to show us that constantly being bombarded with microwave frequencies so we can use cell phones or watch movies will induce wide spread infertility a generation from now.

    Shades of the doctor (can’t remember his name) in Heinlein’s Waldo.

    • #81
  22. Scott Wilmot Member
    Scott Wilmot
    @ScottWilmot

    • #82
  23. Scott Wilmot Member
    Scott Wilmot
    @ScottWilmot

    • #83
  24. RufusRJones Member
    RufusRJones
    @RufusRJones

    This goes with my comment #78 for those that are interested.

    In most countries, the growth of the welfare state has been financed through the accumulation of public debt on a scale that would have been unthinkable without fiat inflation. A cursory glance at the historical record shows that the exponential growth of the welfare state, which in Europe started in the early 1970s, went hand in hand with the explosion of public debt. It is widely known that this development has been a major factor in the decline of the family. But it is commonly overlooked that the ultimate cause of this decline is fiat inflation. Perennial inflation slowly but assuredly destroys the family, thus suffocating the earthly flame of morals. Indeed, the family is the most important “producer” of a certain type of morals.

    When these guys say “inflation” they mean asset inflation as well.

    The decline of the family from these bad polices puts more stress on the welfare state both from not producing enough productive taxpayers to fund it, and shoving more people into it. It’s insane. If you don’t look at it this way, everything will just get worse.

    Eight years after they started Medicare they knew screwed up, but they never adjusted at all. Then we vote for more of the same, over and over.

    • #84
  25. CarolJoy, Above Top Secret Coolidge
    CarolJoy, Above Top Secret
    @CarolJoy

    Randy Webster (View Comment):

    CarolJoy, Above Top Secret (View Comment):
    Researchers whose work has been suppressed have tried to show us that constantly being bombarded with microwave frequencies so we can use cell phones or watch movies will induce wide spread infertility a generation from now.

    Shades of the doctor (can’t remember his name) in Heinlein’s Waldo.

    Your mention of Heinlein’s Waldo works in two ways – one, Waldo Farthingwaite-Jones was born a weakling, and the doctor who delivered him did so despite the fact that it was known that this baby was deformed. (IIRC, the society Heinlein created for the tale was not into having such a baby actually being allowed to live. But it has been a while, so that may be wrong.)

    Then there is the fact that radiation, although not non ionizing from microwaves but rather thermal, ionizing radiation as from atomic testing, also comes into play.

    Won’t say more than that, as my memory of the tale is not that fresh and also I hate spoilers.

    • #85
  26. CarolJoy, Above Top Secret Coolidge
    CarolJoy, Above Top Secret
    @CarolJoy

    RufusRJones (View Comment):

    This goes with my comment #78 for those that are interested.

    In most countries, the growth of the welfare state has been financed through the accumulation of public debt on a scale that would have been unthinkable without fiat inflation. A cursory glance at the historical record shows that the exponential growth of the welfare state, which in Europe started in the early 1970s, went hand in hand with the explosion of public debt. It is widely known that this development has been a major factor in the decline of the family. But it is commonly overlooked that the ultimate cause of this decline is fiat inflation. Perennial inflation slowly but assuredly destroys the family, thus suffocating the earthly flame of morals. Indeed, the family is the most important “producer” of a certain type of morals.

    When these guys say “inflation” they mean asset inflation as well.

    The decline of the family from these bad polices puts more stress on the welfare state both from not producing enough productive taxpayers to fund it, and shoving more people into it. It’s insane. If you don’t look at it this way, everything will just get worse.

    Eight years after they started Medicare they knew screwed up, but they never adjusted at all. Then we vote for more of the same, over and over.

    And yet the debt accumulating Ponzi scheme aspect of the various social programs like MediCare and Social Security can, the experts assure us, be mitigated by societies allowing in massive numbers of new immigrants, who being so much younger than the other members of society, will then prop up the system.

    This was supposed to be why during the 1990’s, we were to accept the economic refugees from south of the border after Bill Clinton’s inflationary 20 billion dollar hand over to Mexican bankers and also NAFTA propelled Mexican workers to come here. Alas, they consume roughly 30% more in social costs than they pay in taxes. Then many eventually bring their parents over, who are usually soon after their arrival the new recipients of MediCare and Social Security programs themselves. (MediCare merely stipulates that  a person must have been in this country for ten years, and worked and paid into MediCare for five, in order for any individual to become a recipient of M/C benefits.)

    • #86
  27. CarolJoy, Above Top Secret Coolidge
    CarolJoy, Above Top Secret
    @CarolJoy

    GrannyDude (View Comment):

    CarolJoy (View Comment):
    What it came down to was that it was more convenient and less expensive for America’s doctors and hospitals to do a late term abortion than to allow the deformed babe to make its way into the arms of its parents and then die later on. (Be that a week or two weeks later.)

    Ahah!

    I remember when I was pregnant with my first baby, and reading a whole lot of feminist pregnancy books. Caesarean Section was harshly criticized because—it was darkly suspected—[male] doctors preferred elective C-sections because you could schedule them around a golf game.

    So of course a late-term abortion is much easier and more convenient for the doctor than having to come in to the hospital in the middle of the night, deliver a baby that isn’t going to make it anyway, deal with the grieving family… So they make it one of those “oh, of course” reasons to have an abortion. “Dreadful fetal anomalies!” But —as I’ve learned from y’all (thanks, MamaToad!) there’s no obvious “of course” about it.

    Naturally, the feminists don’t see it that way when it comes to abortion, though they are probably still pretty suspicious about C-sections.

    Since the NY ruling, a  FB friend of mine put up this very concerning post to the effect that the organs of a fetus terminated at five months do not hold half the monetary value  to the medical establishment as the organs of an almost fully developed 8 or 9 month old fetus.

    Word limit on posts didn’t allow me to express how even the woman mentioned as turning away from the doctor’s insistence she abort her supposed deformed fetus has never blamed women who choose otherwise. Rather she blames the doctors. She was raised Catholic, and  she wanted this baby badly, but her ob/gyn guy was continually calling her at night to insist that she not carry the baby to term. She is positive if not for the somewhat miraculous intervention posed by her grandmother needing her to return to Argentina and away from American doctors, that her doctor would have pressured her to go the same route as other women did. And instead of having a child she cherishes, she would be carrying the grief and guilt that the other women do carry. (Though they hide it well, till the subject is brought up.)

    • #87
  28. Fred Cole Inactive
    Fred Cole
    @FredCole

    This comes from a friend of mine:

    Friends, let’s talk about the Reproductive Health Act. Many of my pro-life friends are very upset over this, and I get it. However, there are some misconceptions about the law, and I want to try to help clear them up. 

    Let’s start with the actual text of the RHA – insofar as it defines in which circumstances an abortion is legal. The text is the newly amended Article 25-A of the New York Public Health Law

    ”  ABORTION. 1. A HEALTH CARE  PRACTITIONER  LICENSED,  CERTI-
    FIED, OR AUTHORIZED UNDER TITLE EIGHT OF THE EDUCATION LAW, ACTING WITH-
    IN  HIS  OR  HER LAWFUL SCOPE OF PRACTICE, MAY PERFORM AN ABORTION WHEN,
    ACCORDING TO THE PRACTITIONER’S REASONABLE AND GOOD  FAITH  PROFESSIONAL
    JUDGMENT BASED ON THE FACTS OF THE PATIENT’S CASE: THE PATIENT IS WITHIN
    TWENTY-FOUR  WEEKS  FROM  THE  COMMENCEMENT OF PREGNANCY, OR THERE IS AN
    ABSENCE OF FETAL VIABILITY, OR THE ABORTION IS NECESSARY TO PROTECT  THE
    PATIENT’S LIFE OR HEALTH.”

    The decision to abort past 24 weeks (which was already the law – 2nd trimester) can only be made when 1. there is a risk to the mother’s life or 2. the foetus is not viable I e. dead or not going to survive. It is a good faith medical decision, but it is an evidentiary decision. In no way can this amendment be interpreted as a blanket allowance for any baby to be aborted.

    Let’s look at this in real world terms. Before this amendment, if a mother was going to die if she carried her baby to term, there was a point in the pregnancy – past 24 weeks – where she would have been unable to save her own life. There would be a point in the pregnancy – past 24 weeks – where a woman might have to carry a baby she knows won’t survive birth, essentially prolonging her trauma.

    Now, with this amendment, the mother can choose to save herself, or her sanity in the latter case.  Those of you who have been pregnant, however – and I have not – know that not every mother would be able to choose herself over her uterine passenger. There is real bonding that occurs. When face with such a life or death decision, no expectant mother is going to take it lightly. And neither will her doctor. And some mothers would roll the dice and continue, knowing the risks. Others would save themselves. None of them would take the decision anything but seriously.

    In the past, a doctor, whose responsibility is to their patient, would have been limited by law in their ability to treat their patients. A foetus is never the patient. Well, that’s a slight overstatement – there have been surgeries on foeti in útero – but an obstetrician has a pregnant woman for a patient, and not a foetus. 

    The emphasis is mine.  

    I’ll add that the solution to this is always what it was: persuasion not coercion.  We’re talking about New York here, not Oklahoma.  There’s a long history of liberal abortion laws.  

    If you want to prevent abortion in New York, the way to do that is not through legislative attempts to ban things.  The way to do that is to persuade people not get abortions and present them with alternatives.

    Yes, I know this already happens.  I just want to reemphasize once again that the way to achieve your goals is, as always, through persuasion, not government coercion.

    • #88
  29. RufusRJones Member
    RufusRJones
    @RufusRJones

    Fred Cole (View Comment):
    I’ll add that the solution to this is always what it was: persuasion not coercion.

    I have explained in detail on this forum, twice, why this is comprehensively true. That is just the nature of what has happened since Roe versus Wade. The politics and the power around all of this stuff has changed too much.

    Having said that I’ve heard this law just gives discretion to doctors for any reason they want. I’m not going to get into a big argument about it.

    Fred Cole (View Comment):
    Now, with this amendment, the mother can choose to save herself, or her sanity in the latter case. Those of you who have been pregnant, however – and I have not – know that not every mother would be able to choose herself over her uterine passenger. There is real bonding that occurs.

    This is true, and there is science to back it up. They know that attachment issues are an issue in the third trimester. If the mother resents the pregnancy the kid could end up with big psychological problems. The time from the third trimester to age 3 frequently makes or breaks this babies life in that sense. Stability and love during that time is just huge. 

    I posted a discussion that covers this stuff on Heritage Foundation podcast above. She covers it from a different angle, but it’s the same thing and she’s right. Everyone always leaves this out of the equation and it’s a huge mistake.

    • #89
  30. Columbo Inactive
    Columbo
    @Columbo

    RufusRJones (View Comment):

    Fred Cole (View Comment):
    I’ll add that the solution to this is always what it was: persuasion not coercion.

    I have explained in detail on this forum, twice, why this is comprehensively true. That is just the nature of what has happened since Roe versus Wade. The politics and the power around all of this stuff has changed too much.

    Having said that I’ve heard this law just gives discretion to doctors for any reason they want. I’m not going to get into a big argument about it.

    Fred Cole (View Comment):
    Now, with this amendment, the mother can choose to save herself, or her sanity in the latter case. Those of you who have been pregnant, however – and I have not – know that not every mother would be able to choose herself over her uterine passenger. There is real bonding that occurs.

    This is true, and there is science to back it up. They know that attachment issues are an issue in the third trimester. If the mother resents the pregnancy the kid could end up with big psychological problems. The time from the third trimester to age 3 frequently makes or breaks this babies life in that sense. Stability and love during that time is just huge.

    I posted a discussion that covers this stuff on Heritage Foundation podcast above. She covers it from a different angle, but it’s the same thing and she’s right. Everyone always leaves this out of the equation and it’s a huge mistake.

    The Left doesn’t listen. They put their fingers in their ears and they yell la, la, la to drown out reason.

    They say that they love “Science” and that the neanderthal conservatives hate it. Nah, baby nah.

    Let’s have some of that science on this subject. Here is a NASA scientist to literally visualize it for us …

     

    • #90
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