Language, Please

 

Most of my pet peeves have to do with either grammar or unsignaled lane-changing; I’m not a man inclined to fuss. But there’s one particular annoyance that probably bothers me on a regular basis more than any other.

I don’t like casual obscenity in public. It bothers me that people, adults as well as young people, will casually swear in a crowd of strangers.

I don’t think it used to be this way. I remember the first time I saw someone with a grossly obscene tee-shirt (“[expletive] you, you [expletive]-ing [expletive]”). I remember the first time I heard the f-bomb playfully shouted across a busy parking lot. Now it seems you can’t go out for an evening without hearing it in a bar or restaurant.

At the risk of sounding old-fashioned, I think strangers shouldn’t be subjected to casual vulgarity. In fact, I’ll be even more outrageous: I think that strange women absolutely should not be subjected to it, and that men should in general be in the habit of not swearing around women.

I suppose it’s a small thing. But civilization is a collection of small things, and we should try to preserve some of the ones that lend it grace and dignity.

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  1. Chuck Enfield Inactive
    Chuck Enfield
    @ChuckEnfield

    Annefy (View Comment):
    I read something years ago by Meg Ryan – and I think Scott Adams said nearly the same thing. To them, it was all about the shoes. When Meg was in Courage Under Fire, her attitude and body language changed the minute she put on the army boots. For Scott Adams (if memory serves) it was when he put on the shoes he wore to dance lessons to get ready for his wedding.

    I never miss an opportunity to wear heels – and it’s not just because they look better than the boots I wear to the shooting range.

    The one time I wore heels in formation it elicited much cursing, but not by me.  First Sergeants are masters at cursing.  I think they get tested on it.

    • #61
  2. Quake Voter Inactive
    Quake Voter
    @QuakeVoter

    You’re not blameless here Henry.  Last mild public profanity I blurted was “*&^% this is great!” while reading your post about your lunch with David Brooks.

    • #62
  3. DrewInWisconsin Member
    DrewInWisconsin
    @DrewInWisconsin

    I think the teaching of “manners” fell to the wayside a couple generations ago, and what we’re seeing now in the adult population are people who were never taught manners as kids. It’s not just the use of coarse language in public spaces, it’s a whole range of behaviors.

     

    • #63
  4. DrewInWisconsin Member
    DrewInWisconsin
    @DrewInWisconsin

    Annefy (View Comment):

    Chuck Enfield (View Comment):

    Annefy (View Comment):
    Do you find yourself verbally sinking into the company you’re in?

    I became acutely aware of this phenomenon in the National Guard. When I was on active duty I swore a lot, but still less than my peers so it didn’t seem that bad. When I got off active duty I pretty much stopped swearing – except for one weekend a month and two weeks a year. It was quite noticeable to me then. It also made me aware that it’s something deeper than just a common vernacular. It would start as soon as I put on the uniform, often hours before I encountered any other soldiers.

    I read something years ago by Meg Ryan – and I think Scott Adams said nearly the same thing. To them, it was all about the shoes. When Meg was in Courage Under Fire, her attitude and body language changed the minute she put on the army boots. For Scott Adams (if memory serves) it was when he put on the shoes he wore to dance lessons to get ready for his wedding.

    Interesting connection. So maybe if we can just get people to stop dressing like slobs, they’ll stop talking like slobs, too.

     

    • #64
  5. Chuck Enfield Inactive
    Chuck Enfield
    @ChuckEnfield

    DrewInWisconsin (View Comment):
    Interesting connection. So maybe if we can just get people to stop dressing like slobs, they’ll stop talking like slobs, too.

    Hey now.  I may have been wearing BDU’s, but I was no slob. :)

    • #65
  6. Annefy Member
    Annefy
    @Annefy

    DrewInWisconsin (View Comment):

    Annefy (View Comment):

    Chuck Enfield (View Comment):

    Annefy (View Comment):
    Do you find yourself verbally sinking into the company you’re in?

    I became acutely aware of this phenomenon in the National Guard. When I was on active duty I swore a lot, but still less than my peers so it didn’t seem that bad. When I got off active duty I pretty much stopped swearing – except for one weekend a month and two weeks a year. It was quite noticeable to me then. It also made me aware that it’s something deeper than just a common vernacular. It would start as soon as I put on the uniform, often hours before I encountered any other soldiers.

    I read something years ago by Meg Ryan – and I think Scott Adams said nearly the same thing. To them, it was all about the shoes. When Meg was in Courage Under Fire, her attitude and body language changed the minute she put on the army boots. For Scott Adams (if memory serves) it was when he put on the shoes he wore to dance lessons to get ready for his wedding.

    Interesting connection. So maybe if we can just get people to stop dressing like slobs, they’ll stop talking like slobs, too.

    And acting like slobs also. It’s why Disneyland had such a strict dress code. And why school uniforms are such a good idea.

    • #66
  7. cdor Member
    cdor
    @cdor

    Henry Racette: I don’t like casual obscenity in public. It bothers me that people, adults as well as young people, will casually swear in a crowd of strangers.

    Embarrassingly I must say, I have a potty mouth and I agree wholeheartedly with your statement.

    • #67
  8. profdlp Inactive
    profdlp
    @profdlp

    Michael Brehm (View Comment):
    Looking at what I just wrote: it really seems anachronistic in so many different ways. Wow. Dad was in college in the ’70s!

    I attended college in the 70s for a year, then left to join the Navy.  Reading your initial post, I had this image in my head of raccoon coats, pennants, and flivvers on the way to the big game against State Tech U.  I never dreamed I might one day be looking back at the 70s as a more innocent time, but you are absolutely correct.

    • #68
  9. Mike LaRoche Inactive
    Mike LaRoche
    @MikeLaRoche

    I’ve had to catch myself with profanity while driving with other people in the car. The last close call I had was two years ago in Montgomery, Alabama. I was taking a young lady out to dinner after a military history conference and while on the main freeway through town, traffic suddenly ground to a halt. As I slammed on the brakes I exclaimed, “Holy shiitake mushrooms!”

    • #69
  10. Matt White Member
    Matt White
    @

    Quinnie (View Comment):
    Thank you for your ruminations. I think I have been guilty of this and you have caused me pause. I will work to correct.

    It’s takes some effort to clean up after that habit takes hold.

    • #70
  11. Henry Racette Member
    Henry Racette
    @HenryRacette

    I don’t mind profanity. I just object to it being inflicted on people who don’t want to hear it.

    Profanity works. It’s a tool that can be used to express a variety of generally negative things: anger, contempt, crudity, a lack of expressive skills. One of my favorite movies is “Glengarry Glen Ross,” in which I think profanity is used very effectively to communicate the ugliness of the characters. I don’t know that it would be the same movie without the language.

    We had no swearing in our home, and my children have never heard me swear. It’s a very adult thing that I use rarely, always in private settings, always deliberately and for effect. I suspect many adults of my age and older probably treat profanity the same way.

    My third son was an officer in the Army. He came home to visit us one day and slipped — the only time any of our children have ever used foul language in my presence. I wasn’t surprised: I had some idea how difficult it would be for him to switch contexts, at least for the first time, and I was half-expecting such a slip to happen. To his credit, he caught himself and never made the mistake again.

    I do think that, for many people, really foul language is threatening, an indicator of a kind of aggressive personality or mood. It’s more than a little ironic that the same generation that has brought us the concepts of “trigger words” and “hurtful” speech (concepts I generally reject) casually uses language that many older people associate with anger and reckless behavior.

    Expletives are useful but, like “awesome,” they can be worn out. I don’t know that there’s a cultural linguistic process for quickly — within a generation — creating new and effective expletives, ones that people will take seriously and that will convey what the old ones did. I admit that this wasn’t the point of my post, which was to condemn the lack of consideration and awareness involved in public profanity. But the language lover in me finds the thought that we might be tiring out our “best” obscenities a little sad as well.

    • #71
  12. Matt White Member
    Matt White
    @

    PHenry (View Comment):

    Gary McVey (View Comment):
    I know conservatives who think “The Big Lebowski” and “Pulp Fiction” are hilarious.

    I really don’t consider movies to be in the same class as public profanity. Moves have ratings to warn those who don’t wish to be exposed, and frankly, it doesn’t offend me. In fact, profanity itself doesn’t offend me, it only offends me when it is in front of women and children.

    Is that patriarchal? I really don’t know anymore.

    The problem with movie and TV ratings is what counts as profane. While some profanity is limited, using God’s name in a profane manner is considered acceptable.

     

    • #72
  13. MarciN Member
    MarciN
    @MarciN

    Henry Racette (View Comment):
    I do think that, for many people, really foul language is threatening, an indicator of a kind of aggressive personality or mood. It’s more than a little ironic that the same generation that has brought us the concepts of “trigger words” and “hurtful” speech (concepts I generally reject) casually uses language that many older people associate with anger and reckless behavior.

    I too find this bizarre.

    • #73
  14. Gary McVey Contributor
    Gary McVey
    @GaryMcVey

    Mike LaRoche (View Comment):
    I’ve had to catch myself with profanity while driving with other people in the car. The last close call I had was two years ago in Montgomery, Alabama. I was taking a young lady out to dinner after a military history conference and while on the main freeway through town, traffic suddenly ground to a halt. As I slammed on the brakes I exclaimed, “Holy shiitake mushrooms!”

    That’s the privilege of being a college professor. A friend’s father was an earth scientist working for the mining industry. His favorite expletive was “Holy schist!”

    • #74
  15. Miffed White Male Member
    Miffed White Male
    @MiffedWhiteMale

    I have some essays that my dad wrote for an English class he took while waiting for his army discharge after WWII when he was 19.  The introductory one includes a paragraph on why he’s taking the course.  He says he “picked up a new vocabulary in the service, and I’m afraid it has no place in civilian society.  With this course, I hope to renew my former word power, and place in the background the more disagreeable terms that I have picked up in the service”.

     

    He also says that although he “enjoyed the majority of the time I have spent in the service, I would never consent to the army as a career, as I can see no future in it.”

     

    • #75
  16. Henry Racette Member
    Henry Racette
    @HenryRacette

    Miffed White Male (View Comment):
    I have some essays that my dad wrote for an English class he took while waiting for his army discharge after WWII when he was 19. The introductory one includes a paragraph on why he’s taking the course. He says he “picked up a new vocabulary in the service, and I’m afraid it has no place in civilian society. With this course, I hope to renew my former word power, and place in the background the more disagreeable terms that I have picked up in the service”.

    He also says that although he “enjoyed the majority of the time I have spent in the service, I would never consent to the army as a career, as I can see no future in it.”

    A charming observation, particularly from a 19 year old.

    • #76
  17. Steven Potter Thatcher
    Steven Potter
    @StevenPotter

    Reminds me of an experience I had this last Friday after leaving a baseball game and walking in the crowd leaving the stadium.  Group of young 20-something fans shouting, at the top of their lungs, obscenity laced chants to mock the fans of the other team (that had won) walking in the crowd.  Attention-seeking and probably too much alcohol.

    It’s the lack of consideration for others that bothers me and the boorishness, not the word itself.  Though they are usually linked.  I don’t swear that much, except in private, on occasion, around very close friends.  It would never cross my mind to blast the F word at the top of my lungs in public for a prolonged period of time.

    • #77
  18. Paul Erickson Inactive
    Paul Erickson
    @PaulErickson

    Terry Mott (View Comment):
    If you hit your thumb with a hammer, letting loose with a string of obscenities you wouldn’t normally use acts as an emotional release. If there are no obscenities you normally wouldn’t use (because you use them all, all the time) what do you do? Throw the hammer instead?

    Both.

    • #78
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