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Flyover Country, Episode 66 – All the Lonely People
For our first podcast of the new year, episode 66, we are joined by Ricochet member Titus Techera, who has also written for National Review Online and The Federalist. Titus is a Romanian, who has recently spent time in the US, and our discussion revolves around the American psyche and our particular current brand of politics.
[note: I apologize for the terrible audio, which makes Ryan appear significantly louder than Terry and Titus. We will be sure to fix this before our next podcast!]
Published in General
Yes, and great art can depict great ugliness.
Look, guys, I offered to simply disagree. Instead you are insisting that I admit there is no art. That’s not going to happen, so your analogies about crappy municipal art and whatever that was about the feet and inches that still makes no sense to me because you assumed I knew what you were talking about or would look it up…anyway, deal with the fact that this work is art.
No one said that.
Fine, you are insisting that I prove the existence of art.
I already did but you don’t want to see it.
@cbtoderakamamatoad, I’m really mostly teasing, as I was in the podcast when discussing the same topic. If you like it and call it art, that’s fine. I could just as easily say “I hate modern art” as “this isn’t art.” Po-tay-to, po-tah-to, and it’s not a terribly important topic or one that keeps me up most nights. :)
You know, it has been performed “You say po-tay-to, I say po-tay-to. You say to-may-to, I say to-may-to” before.
hah, that’s funny. My phone auto-corrected “po-tah-to” to “po-tay-to.” Opinionated machine…
I almost asked… typo? Or art?
OK, but I’m not teasing. Christo makes art. And you spent many comments arguing against that, including the silly comment that there was no skill or imagination involved, as though making obviously false statements about the work would be persuasive.
Let’s take your potato analogy. You can pronounce the word differently, prepare the taters differently, can even dislike potatoes altogether, but there isn’t a requirement to prove they exist.
If it keeps you up nights or not is none of my concern, and if you like it or not is not for me to say.
But perhaps you can appreciate the comment count…?
I do have a problem with the talk of what provokes discussion or creates discussion. People can very well be fascinated with their own reactions to events; also, people are often involved in quarrels simply because they’re defensive. I wouldn’t hasten to adduce either kind of reaction or behavior as evidence of what’s supposed to be thoughtful.
If anything, this kind of running disagreement suggests people cannot agree or be friendly when it comes to this sort of thing, whether you call it art of anything else. There is no effort to enter, on the one hand, into the intention of the maker, &, on the other, into the dissatisfaction of the audience.
You mean 100?
Are you saying I made no attempt to do these things? I am disappointed to hear it if so.
I think he is referring more generally to those who are limiting and denigrating various forms of art as well as the artists who are not seeing from the perspective of the first group.
Hey. My 13 year old offers way better things than this dude.
Your son must be an amazing artist. Either that, or your statement is malarky.
Daughter. And yes. Yes she is. When she wants to be. The rest of the time, she just likes to doodle.
Well, that he doesn’t fall into my definition of art is obviously a subjective thing.
But, getting away from that for a moment, to something that neither of us are particularly passionate about (well, probably I’m more passionate than you are on this), let’s shift the question.
Would you consider John Cage to be a musician?
I don’t know who John Cage is.
Musician. Sometimes fun.
The quote from him at the beginning is “Everything we do is Music.”
Untrue.
No. Never fun. It is garbage.
Don’t be so moralistic-
Dude wrote an opera about Walt Disney. Thought of auditioning to be in it, but changed my mind. As a “professional amateur”, I have one shot to be in a paid opera chorus before joining some union, and I’d prefer it not to be spent on that. Still would call Cage a musician, though. Even had fun with some of his other stuff.
Doesn’t that get to the initial point that was made by @judgemental, though? Maybe he is a musician because he is capable of playing music, or maybe even writing music (that’s debatable). But is it music simply because he does it? 4’33” is not music. Period. It is an expression of a depraved philosophy, if anything, but it is not music. Not all expression, even from musicians, is music. I’d say the same about art. Is it art because it is done by an artist? Is it art because it requires skill? Is it art because it makes people think? You’ve got to have a combination of these things… so “art” that intentionally pushes the limits must necessarily at some point run the risk of falling outside. Granted there is a huge amount of stuff in the art world today that I would classify as non-art.
This man appears to do anything but music. Uninteresting, sorry. Not beautiful, not clever, just self-indulgent.
Not sure what he has to do with Christo.
I love this video for its sense of the teamwork and pride that Christo’s workers take in the work:
Good to hear your voice again, Titus.
You could make it out? Wow. Can you hear me now? What am I saying?
Well, it doesn’t directly relate to Christo, except in the theory of what makes art and music. Some might call a thing art, while others call it vandalism. Some might call something music, while others call it noise. In the case of Cage, I think we’re entering the realm of the extreme. It is pure pretentiousness and self-indulgence. It isn’t music.
But with Christo? Who knows? Would you say that Banksy is an artist? I guess… does he create art? well… maybe. Maybe not.
When I was talking about Christo, you have to remember that I was pretty much just being silly. You’ll hear it a lot in my podcast. Old-man rants about stuff that annoys me, with all the hyperbole of someone who actually does have a sense of humor about his own opinions. I’m not really proposing much more than a personal insight that is very likely debatable. In the least, it’s a gray area. My whole point was that liberal artists are angry at conservatives, so they threaten to stop doing their art… which is directed at a liberal audience… I likened it to protesters destroying the streets of Portland – which voted almost exclusively for Hillary. That was my broader point.
I could hear you fine, @titustechera.
I enjoyed this podcast very much. I like to hear about how my culture looks to an outsider. I like the insights one gets from that.
I have been thinking about Titus’ saying that Americans are too hung up on politics and should spend more time enjoying family and friends (my paraphrase). I think he is right, but I am wondering if there is also a cultural difference in there.
As Americans, being in charge of our own lives and our own government is an essential part of our persona. From our first year in school we are taught that the U.S. exists because its people weren’t going to let someone else tell them what to do. We are taught all the time that our government is “by the people, for the people.” This might make us more likely to protest when we don’t like what our government is doing than someone from another culture might protest.
I lived a good number of years in a South American country that had a series of military governments and a stultifying bureaucracy. Under such a system one does focus on friends and family and sharing ways to circumvent the difficult things that you can’t change.
However, I am still taking Titus’ recommendation to heart and will continue to think about it.
I understand what you mean about the political passions of Americans. The problem is Americans now uniquely are separated from their families & making friends in America is really very hard, apparently.
People would not be spending untold hours online complaining & behaving in reprehensible ways if their offline lives were ok.
The fact that internet is the place where Americans are talkiest & the ugliest mode of American life suggests, Americans have a problem with talking, that is, with people unlike themselves. Internet-America is also where people go to have fun with people like themselves, whether it’s gaming, admiration of movies or books or whatever cultural pursuit, but also silly trivial stuff & dead-serious knowledge. All these things happen, but they tend to make people more alike or the self-selection bias ends up with like-minded people in, the unlike out.
Mix people, especially in political talk, however, & you get nuclear explosions.