To Save Conservatism

 

shutterstock_461975242If one believes conservatism is the only cure for what ails the nation, then 2016 is a bleak year. We have before us a choice of a dedicated leftist whose entire public life has been dedicated to the destruction of our republic (and replacing it with yet another European-styel socialist welfare state), or a guy who can be charitably described as “not a conservative.” Because Hillary Clinton is such a well known statist and a threat to our way of life, it would seem obvious that the only viable option for conservatives would be to oppose her with everything they have. Under any normal set of circumstances that would be exactly the right course of action. Indeed, many have claimed that it’s so obviously correct that there can be no other argument. Ben Shapiro, however, takes a different view:

That brings us to the real reason to oppose Trump’s candidacy: the attempt to turn the conservative movement into a nationalist populist one, complete with shilling for Trump’s incomprehensible decisions and statements. If you believe that the only solution to America’s problems is true conservatism, your greatest fear is not a Hillary presidency: It’s the perversion of the conservative movement itself, the corruption of conservatism in favor of power. Hillary Clinton’s presidency does not snuff out conservatism, even though it provides a serious danger to the republic. Trump’s presidency does.

I share this view. Conservatism is the solution to our problems. Not voting for Trump increases the likelihood of for four more years of an anti-conservative president who will do everything she can to obstruct conservative ideas and policies. However, a vote for Trump is a vote against conservatism itself. If conservatism has outlived its usefulness and must pass then so be it, but I cannot take an active part in bludgeoning it to death while it still draws breath. Hillary is just another external threat against which we have established defenses. Trump represents an internal rot eating away the very foundation of what America is and what we fight to conserve.

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  1. BrentB67 Inactive
    BrentB67
    @BrentB67

    BD:

    Ben Shapiro: “In sum, I’m happy to welcome establishment Republicans who want to revivify conservative litmus tests to the party. But let’s be consistent: if we’re going to oust Trump based on his ideology, those requirements can’t be waived for others.”

    I don’t know of any prominent #NeverTrump member who is also talking about the need to oppose John McCain. In fact, some of them have been vocal in their support of McCain. Not buying the “we’re doing this for conservatism” argument.

    This is a great point and I think supports the notion that Republicans wish a big government strongman in charge, just not the one on offer.

    • #121
  2. The King Prawn Inactive
    The King Prawn
    @TheKingPrawn

    BrentB67:

    Tom Meyer, Ed.:

    MJBubba:

    Carrying water for Hillary is not conservative.

    Agreed. Though I’d also say that not voting for Trump is not tantamount to carrying water for her.

    Perhaps, but today is core muscle day at the gym and I find 3 sets of 25 reps with a stick on dead horse particularly effective.

    Jumping to conclusions is a good one for leg day.

    • #122
  3. The King Prawn Inactive
    The King Prawn
    @TheKingPrawn

    BrentB67:

    BD:

    Ben Shapiro: “In sum, I’m happy to welcome establishment Republicans who want to revivify conservative litmus tests to the party. But let’s be consistent: if we’re going to oust Trump based on his ideology, those requirements can’t be waived for others.”

    I don’t know of any prominent #NeverTrump member who is also talking about the need to oppose John McCain. In fact, some of them have been vocal in their support of McCain. Not buying the “we’re doing this for conservatism” argument.

    This is a great point and I think supports the notion that Republicans wish a big government strongman in charge, just not the one on offer.

    Truth, and that’s something conservatives have stood athwart within the party for decades. Now we have strongman politics in both major parties.

    • #123
  4. Ekosj Member
    Ekosj
    @Ekosj

    Bryan G. Stephens:Clearly, conservatism is not selling with the American people, an not even with enough Republicans.

    That may mean the Republic is over. Not destroyed by Clinton but by the people.

    I cannot name one lasting conservative victory since 1940. There are many leftist ones.

    I am open to items where conservatism has advanced, if you have examples.

    Lemme’ see here…

    It win the Cold War, rolled back the Iron Curtain, freed tens of millions from Communist slavery, cowed the Iranians and spread freedom and liberty across the globe. It rolled back confiscatory taxes, liberated the domestic economy, surged new business development and employment and ignited the largest peacetime economic expansion in history.

    Oh … And did it all while fighting off the same GOP establishment that hated Reagan and his ‘kamikazee conservatives’ … And a Congress controlled by Democrats.

    • #124
  5. rgbact Inactive
    rgbact
    @romanblichar

    Concretevol:
    I find that to be much more likely. The fact that many of his early supporters openly boasted they wanted to destroy the party it always seemed odd to me that we should listen to them on who should represent the party they wanted to destroy.

    Indeed. Trumpism is a movement largely fueled by intense hatred of the Republican Party. Its their bogeymen. A vote for Trump is nothing less that an affirmation of hatred of the Republican Party and a desire for Trump to take it over and demolish whats left of it, as Democrats will capitalize on Trumpist fueled chaos and hatred of Republicans. Basically, you’re voting for the Party’s destruction.

    Meanwhile, if Trump loses big, Trumpist self destruction of the Republican Party is dead, and we can go back to engaging voters on conservative issues, in hopes for resurgence in 2018 and 2020.

    • #125
  6. Ekosj Member
    Ekosj
    @Ekosj

    Bryan G. Stephens: let me list some of the left’s lasting victories:

    Most of your list is composed of Supreme Court rulings.     Try to imagine the tenor of the Court had Reagan’s nomination of Bork to the Court not been undermined by a handful of go-along-to-get-along Republicans.  Conservative Bork instead of Kennedy.

    • #126
  7. Big Green Inactive
    Big Green
    @BigGreen

    Bryan G. Stephens:I have not done that. I defined the sort of lasting victory I want to see, based upon the lasting victories of the left. I just reposted them. Please review and get back to me.

    Our current tax code (primarily personal income tax), although far from perfect in my ideal world, has to be considered a permanent victory for conservatives.  When was the last time you heard a Democrat mention anything about increasing taxes on the middle class or the non-wealthy?  Obama’s plan during both campaigns was to make it very clear that taxes would not go up for 98% of folks.  I have plenty of issues with his tax plan and the current tax code but it is delusional to think that Dems would be singing this tune in the absence of conservatives and republicans’ 30 year relentless effort on this front.  Now the Dems want Sweden like spending without Sweden like taxes but it is a permanent victory nonetheless.

    • #127
  8. Bryan G. Stephens Thatcher
    Bryan G. Stephens
    @BryanGStephens

    Ekosj:

    Bryan G. Stephens:Clearly, conservatism is not selling with the American people, an not even with enough Republicans.

    That may mean the Republic is over. Not destroyed by Clinton but by the people.

    I cannot name one lasting conservative victory since 1940. There are many leftist ones.

    I am open to items where conservatism has advanced, if you have examples.

    Lemme’ see here…

    It win the Cold War, rolled back the Iron Curtain, freed tens of millions from Communist slavery, cowed the Iranians and spread freedom and liberty across the globe. It rolled back confiscatory taxes, liberated the domestic economy, surged new business development and employment and ignited the largest peacetime economic expansion in history.

    Oh … And did it all while fighting off the same GOP establishment that hated Reagan and his ‘kamikazee conservatives’ … And a Congress controlled by Democrats.

    Adressed already how none of that is “lasting”

    • #128
  9. Walker Member
    Walker
    @Walker

    I’m afraid I see no solution here. Unless the GOP is able to oust Trump, we’re not only stuck with this guy (and a Clinton presidency as a result), but a likely switch of the republican majority in both houses of Congress (not to mention SCOTUS). I’ve read some conservative pundits proclaim that we can recover after this kind of devastating loss. I’m not convinced. The Dems will do everything in their power to ensure the end of the conservative movement. Time for our party elders to stage an intervention and switch our candidate for someone who could beat Hillary. It may already be too late judging from the growing number of republicans who are bailing this quickly sinking ship. Quelle disastre!

    • #129
  10. Robert McReynolds Member
    Robert McReynolds
    @

    Larry3435:So the Trump debate continues to rage, as if Trump actually had a chance to win. Some Trump supporters continue to hope for a “pivot,” after which Trump would behave like something resembling a decent human being who could be trusted with the Presidency. Others continue to tell themselves that Trump’s antics won him 14 million votes during the primaries, so they will just naturally bring in another 50 million votes needed to win the general, despite polls that say he will never get that kind of support. And Trump keeps losing even the people who did reluctantly support him.

    Either way, the Trump candidacy has become a Rorschach test for one’s capacity for self-delusion. Trump is going to lose in a spectacular landslide, and the best thing that Republicans can do is to make it clear that Trump does not represent the Republican Party or the Republican brand. And no, I don’t want to hear “but, but, but, but… Hillary!” Sorry, but you are going to get four years of Hillary. So when events overtake your capacity for self-delusion, you had best start thinking about 2020 and beyond, because that is the next time you are going to have any say about who sits in the Oval Office.

    By 2020 it won’t matter anymore. The republic is dead by then.

    • #130
  11. Ekosj Member
    Ekosj
    @Ekosj

    Bryan G. Stephens:Adressed already how none of that is “lasting”

    Hey … Sorry we couldn’t freeze those days I n amber for you.    But things change.     Most importantly, the Party renounced those ‘kamikazee conservatives’ and their thinking in 1988 in favor of something ‘kinder and gentler’ and later for something ‘compassionate’.    Whatever it was it was not the conservatism that came before … Though ACTUAL conservatism’s success had been so great that for marketing purposes the Party leadership appended its name to themselves and their hyphenated philosophies.

    That marketing effort succeeded to the point that people now associate the likes of Boehner, McConnell, and Graham with conservatism and conclude that ‘conservativism failed’.    Rubbish.   Conservatism succeeded spectacularly.     Then the hyphenators abandoned it.    They shun it and the remaining ‘kamikazee conservatives’ to this day.

    • #131
  12. Jane W Inactive
    Jane W
    @JaneW

    That brings us to the real reason to oppose Trump’s candidacy: the attempt to turn the conservative movement into a nationalist populist one, complete with shilling for Trump’s incomprehensible decisions and statements. If you believe that the only solution to America’s problems is true conservatism, your greatest fear is not a Hillary presidency: It’s the perversion of the conservative movement itself, the corruption of conservatism in favor of power. Hillary Clinton’s presidency does not snuff out conservatism, even though it provides a serious danger to the republic. Trump’s presidency does.

    Best explanation of the Never Trumpers I have read to date.  I’m not sure I agree with it, but I appreciate  where they are coming from.

    • #132
  13. The King Prawn Inactive
    The King Prawn
    @TheKingPrawn

    Walker: Time for our party elders to stage an intervention and switch our candidate for someone who could beat Hillary.

    I’m not entirely convinced he’ll lose. Nothing this year is certain, and the depth and breadth of his support has been underestimated at every turn. I wouldn’t be surprised if he absolutely embarrassed Hillary in November. All that being said, to what end? I have absolutely no idea what America after 4 years of Trump will look like. We could have a giant wall on the border. The world could be at peace. There could be great prosperity. The SCOTUS could be conservative for the next generation. Or, just as likely, Trump will discover the limits of his power over 535 legislators who must pander and answer to their own constituencies.

    I’d love for Hillary to go down in flames with the beating she’s wanted to give Bill all these years. I’d love for Trump to appoint the next Scalia (better yet, the next Thomas), but I don’t know that he’d even recognize a conservative jurist (he has no clue what constitutionalism or conservatism is) or that he would understand how to shepherd one through the confirmation process against an angry and hostile Democrat minority or majority Senate.

    • #133
  14. GFHandle Member
    GFHandle
    @GFHandle

    Robert McReynolds: I think the logic is that by running as a Republican Trump will be associated with Conservatism and that will ruin the movement in the eyes of the voter because he will ruin the brand.

    Man, to believe this I have to go all in with Mencken on the stupidity of the American people. At some point someone is going to have to stop making empty promises and just run as a grown up and propose solutions that would actually work. And spell out the costs.  Might be refreshing. Our problems loom large enough, I should think.

    • #134
  15. GFHandle Member
    GFHandle
    @GFHandle

    Bryan G. Stephens: You cannot believe they have zero effect. They sure don’t. Otherwise, why would they write anything at all.

    Is this strictly logical? But yes, the probably have some effect greater than zero but only at the margin of the margin.

    • #135
  16. Bryan G. Stephens Thatcher
    Bryan G. Stephens
    @BryanGStephens

    Ekosj:

    Bryan G. Stephens:Adressed already how none of that is “lasting”

    Hey … Sorry we couldn’t freeze those days I n amber for you. But things change. Most importantly, the Party renounced those ‘kamikazee conservatives’ and their thinking in 1988 in favor of something ‘kinder and gentler’ and later for something ‘compassionate’. Whatever it was it was not the conservatism that came before … Though ACTUAL conservatism’s success had been so great that for marketing purposes the Party leadership appended its name to themselves and their hyphenated philosophies.

    That marketing effort succeeded to the point that people now associate the likes of Boehner, McConnell, and Graham with conservatism and conclude that ‘conservativism failed’. Rubbish. Conservatism succeeded spectacularly. Then the hyphenators abandoned it. They shun it and the remaining ‘kamikazee conservatives’ to this day.

    That sounds like my anger about nothing lasting that is directed at the GOP leadership of the 2000’s is justified.

    • #136
  17. Bryan G. Stephens Thatcher
    Bryan G. Stephens
    @BryanGStephens

    GFHandle:

    Bryan G. Stephens: You cannot believe they have zero effect. They sure don’t. Otherwise, why would they write anything at all.

    Is this strictly logical? But yes, the probably have some effect greater than zero but only at the margin of the margin.

    I rather think the effect of pundits at National Review is greater than the margin of the margin on conservative voters. I guess we just have to disagree, since I don’t know how to prove it.

    • #137
  18. Schwaibold Inactive
    Schwaibold
    @Schwaibold

    Robert McReynolds:

    Larry3435:So the Trump debate continues to rage, as if Trump actually had a chance to win. . . when events overtake your capacity for self-delusion, you had best start thinking about 2020 and beyond, because that is the next time you are going to have any say about who sits in the Oval Office.

    By 2020 it won’t matter anymore. The republic is dead by then.

    It’s already dead  – it elected Obama twice. And then nominated Trump. There’s no stopping what’s coming, being prepared for the reboot is all we can do.

    • #138
  19. Ekosj Member
    Ekosj
    @Ekosj

    Bryan G. Stephens: That sounds like my anger about nothing lasting that is directed at the GOP leadership of the 2000’s is justified.

    Your anger at GOP Leadership is entirely justified.   And had you said that the RINO/GOPe had squandered the triumphs of actual, Unhyphenated conservativism I’d have said “Amen!”    But you implied that conservatism itself had failed and I’lltake issue with that every time.

    Good conversation … Have a great weekend!

    • #139
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