Conservatism, Libertarianism and Other Distinctions

 

I recently got back from attending the 10th annual meeting of the Property and Freedom Society. It’s a libertarian organization of the anarcho-capitalist variety, started by Hans Hermann Hoppe (anonymous recently reviewed one of Hoppe’s books). I found the visit rejuvenating: rarely do I spend four or five days in the company of so many libertarians.

Even on Ricochet, there seems to be a constant conflict between conservative and libertarian ideology. What most people — including many of my fellow Ricochetti — would find most surprising about the conference is how conservative these anarcho-capitalists are. I present to you a speech from last year’s meeting by Dr. Gerard Casey, a Catholic, conservative anarchist, and a lovely and brilliant man. To me, it encapsulates why so many anarchists exist in the libertarian movement, and why they aspire to the same morals as most conservatives.

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  1. Mike H Inactive
    Mike H
    @MikeH

    Ed G.:

    Midget Faded Rattlesnake:

    Mike H:

    Jager:

    You put a lot of stock in “arbitration” what is there that enforces the arbitrators decision?

    A record. If you don’t abide by the arbitrator’s decision, and you have a history of wrongdoing, it will likely become very difficult to convince others to do business with you.

    T0 give a concrete example that already exists, consider credit ratings. People report stuff to the different credit bureaus, people get information from the different bureaus, and people compare the bureaus themselves.

    A credit rating is powerful mojo – I think we all know that. Life becomes a lot harder if your credit is poor… While I would not be happy to have an arrest record (I don’t have one – yet), what really keeps me up at night is worrying that some irresponsibility or oversight of mine will get reported to a credit bureau!

    Midge, you should worry less. Credit is certainly useful for some things, but it’s hardly our defining characteristic. I worked for a guy who declared bankruptcy twice before finding the right formula for success. Me? I have a great credit rating, but with the outstanding amounts I’m carrying they’d be dumb to extend any more. Then there are people who don’t abide by anything and they always come out smelling like roses.

    There are people who can’t get jobs because their credit rating implies the lack of self control and judgment. Not saying this applies to your friend or everyone with the same credit, but it does happen.

    • #391
  2. Midget Faded Rattlesnake Member
    Midget Faded Rattlesnake
    @Midge

    Mike H:

    Ed G.:

    Midget Faded Rattlesnake:

    Mike H:

    Jager:

    A record. If you don’t abide by the arbitrator’s decision, and you have a history of wrongdoing, it will likely become very difficult to convince others to do business with you.

    T0 give a concrete example that already exists, consider credit ratings….

    A credit rating is powerful mojo – I think we all know that. Life becomes a lot harder if your credit is poor… While I would not be happy to have an arrest record (I don’t have one – yet), what really keeps me up at night is worrying that some irresponsibility or oversight of mine will get reported to a credit bureau!

    Midge, you should worry less. Credit is certainly useful for some things, but it’s hardly our defining characteristic. I worked for a guy who declared bankruptcy twice before finding the right formula for success. Me? I have a great credit rating, but with the outstanding amounts I’m carrying they’d be dumb to extend any more. Then there are people who don’t abide by anything and they always come out smelling like roses.

    There are people who can’t get jobs because their credit rating implies the lack of self control and judgment.

    Yeah. This happened to me. Medical debts at an early age before I had built up any other credit history. Having clawed my way out of that once (with help!), I hope never to be there again.

    • #392
  3. Mike H Inactive
    Mike H
    @MikeH

    Ed G.:

    Mike H:

    Ed G.:

    Mike H:

    [….]

    Does private law and private enforcement do that too? Yes. IF it were possible to arrive at such a system in the first place. IF such agencies naturally operated like the local florist in response to the profit motive rather than the local mafioso. IF involuntary constituents could afford the service on one hand and the influence on the other. ASSUMING that the well -resourced can have their way with fewer counters. KNOWING that some poor and those without foresight will continue to experience coercion and oppression.

    Again, I make no claim of perfection, just a claim of outcome and moral superiority. ;) […..]

    I know you’re joking here, but only halfway. If I understand you right then you really do claim moral superiority for your system. I don’t see it though. If there’s going to be coercion in either, then why is it better to have the possibility of no say (eg someone who can’t afford to pay) than to have your say guaranteed if not impactful (ie voting)?

    But you advocating for a system where people are given the impression that their say matters. Maybe that has a certain tendency to quell people that don’t have any influence whatsoever, but the link I provided shows two things. One is that Americans tend to agree on most everything. So in that respect, the poor will get what they want anyway. And two, in the places they disagree, the rich get what they want right now.

    Here’s the strange thing though. People don’t act like homo economus. They value things other than money. The rich don’t ask for things that only help the rich. They tend to support things like the minimum wage (unfortunately.) Less so than the poor, but there’s no selfish economic reason to support the minimum wage. People are far more complicated than most assume when they fear the free market.

    • #393
  4. Merina Smith Inactive
    Merina Smith
    @MerinaSmith

    Here’s an article by Victor Davis Hansen that I think speaks to some of what we have been discussing on this thread.

    http://www.hoover.org/research/mob-coming-you

    • #394
  5. Mike H Inactive
    Mike H
    @MikeH

    Merina Smith:Here’s an article by Victor Davis Hansen that I think speaks to some of what we have been discussing on this thread.

    http://www.hoover.org/research/mob-coming-you

    It does a good job outlining the negative consequences of our current system.

    • #395
  6. Barkha Herman Inactive
    Barkha Herman
    @BarkhaHerman

    Merina Smith:Here’s an article by Victor Davis Hansen that I think speaks to some of what we have been discussing on this thread.

    http://www.hoover.org/research/mob-coming-you

    An excellent article against Government.

    • #396
  7. Merina Smith Inactive
    Merina Smith
    @MerinaSmith

    Mike H:

    Merina Smith:Here’s an article by Victor Davis Hansen that I think speaks to some of what we have been discussing on this thread.

    http://www.hoover.org/research/mob-coming-you

    It does a good job outlining the negative consequences of our current system.

    Of what you propose as well.

    • #397
  8. Mike H Inactive
    Mike H
    @MikeH

    Merina Smith:

    Mike H:

    Merina Smith:Here’s an article by Victor Davis Hansen that I think speaks to some of what we have been discussing on this thread.

    http://www.hoover.org/research/mob-coming-you

    It does a good job outlining the negative consequences of our current system.

    Of what you propose as well.

    You say it will be a mob, Ed says the poor will have no say. It can’t be both.

    • #398
  9. Merina Smith Inactive
    Merina Smith
    @MerinaSmith

    Mike H:

    Merina Smith:

    Mike H:

    Merina Smith:Here’s an article by Victor Davis Hansen that I think speaks to some of what we have been discussing on this thread.

    http://www.hoover.org/research/mob-coming-you

    It does a good job outlining the negative consequences of our current system.

    Of what you propose as well.

    You say it will be a mob, Ed says the poor will have no say. It can’t be both.

    Sure it can.  When the poor have no say, you get mobs.

    • #399
  10. Mike H Inactive
    Mike H
    @MikeH

    Merina Smith:

    Mike H:

    Merina Smith:

    Mike H:

    Merina Smith:Here’s an article by Victor Davis Hansen that I think speaks to some of what we have been discussing on this thread.

    http://www.hoover.org/research/mob-coming-you

    It does a good job outlining the negative consequences of our current system.

    Of what you propose as well.

    You say it will be a mob, Ed says the poor will have no say. It can’t be both.

    Sure it can. When the poor have no say, you get mobs.

    The poor, as a whole, have a lot of money. They would likely have more say under anarcho-capitalism than they do in democracy. A vote is a very weak signal that only shows up every couple years. A dollar is a much stronger and constant signal that can move industries. Most industries create solutions for the rich and poor. It’s fairly easy to picture both a Bloomingdale’s and a Walmart of security and law.

    • #400
  11. Bryan G. Stephens Thatcher
    Bryan G. Stephens
    @BryanGStephens

    Barkha Herman:

    Merina Smith:Here’s an article by Victor Davis Hansen that I think speaks to some of what we have been discussing on this thread.

    http://www.hoover.org/research/mob-coming-you

    An excellent article against Government.

    Way to misread the article. The Founders rejected no government because they were afraid of mob rule. This article is an argument against direct democracy. It is not an argument against a republic.

    But what all of y’all are asking for is closer to mob rule than what we have now. After all, in your magic government-less utopia, I can make my own rules as long as I am willing to pay for them.

    • #401
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