Ricochet is the best place on the internet to discuss the issues of the day, either through commenting on posts or writing your own for our active and dynamic community in a fully moderated environment. In addition, the Ricochet Audio Network offers over 50 original podcasts with new episodes released every day.
Taking Our Country Back: From Whom?
Let’s assume, for fun, that Donald Trump’s supporters are thinking with their brains, not their viscera. If so, they will want to know that the issue he has lassoed for self-aggrandizement has been utterly demagogued. Trump is playing them for chumps.
A young woman was murdered by an illegal alien in a so-called “sanctuary city.” Awful, of course. San Francisco’s officials bear some of the blame for Kate Steinle’s death by declining to enforce the law.
But Trump has abused the trust of his audiences by suggesting that an illegal immigrant crime spree is the great threat to our nation. Trump admirers yearn to “take our country back.” From whom? From Barack Obama, Valerie Jarrett, Al Sharpton, the New York Times, Jon Stewart, and Hillary Clinton? Or from Mexican illegals?
The United States is very much in decline, but the role of illegal immigration in that slide is negligible. Our lack of economic growth, our withdrawal from world leadership, the decline of work and the rise of dependency on government, law flouting by those in power, the degradation of our entertainment culture, rent-seeking by entrenched interests, the stultifying politicization of education (especially higher education) – to say nothing of the nuclearization and enrichment of the world’s worst terror state – those are the great challenges we face.
Obama’s flagrantly illegal waiver for illegals living here made everyone who values the rule of law see red. (The judiciary has thus far stayed the amnesty.) And yet, a little perspective is in order.
Illegal immigration is declining. Between 1990 and 2007, the number of illegal immigrants tripled. In 2000, an estimated 1.6 million illegals entered the United States. Since 2012, that number has dropped to about 400,000 (even accounting for the flood of underage migrants last year).
We’ve built fences along all but the most inaccessible areas along the border. Over the past decade we’ve spent $10.7 billion on fences, cameras, and other measures, including doubling the number of border patrol agents to 18,000. We’ve also spent billions on biometric identity management and other things, bringing the total expenditure for border control to $16.2 billion last year. Those truly serious about ending illegal immigration altogether must grapple with national identity cards. Another fence isn’t going to do it. Forty percent of illegals are visa overstays.
The population of illegals here is aging, which suggests that fewer young people are making the increasingly treacherous journey across the desert. Meanwhile, the dramatic drop in Mexico’s birth rate, from 7.3 children per woman in 1960 to 2.4 today, suggests a problem that is on the way to solving itself. Demographers say that when the birth rate falls below 2, emigration stops. Other Central and South American nations are experiencing similar drops.
As for the epidemic of crime for which illegal aliens are said to be responsible – it’s a myth. Crime rates have declined as immigration has increased. Much has been said about the percentage of federal prisoners who are illegals and/or Hispanic. But federal prisoners represent only about 14 percent of total U.S. inmates, and according the Bureau of Justice Statistics, only 7 percent of federal offenders are incarcerated for violent crimes (most violent crimes are state matters). As the Pew Research Center notes, the past two decades have seen a spike in the number of immigration-related crimes leading to federal prison sentences. These “unlawful reentry” convictions have changed the complexion of federal inmates. Whereas in 1992 Hispanics comprised 23 percent of federal inmates, that share has grown to 48 percent today.
Second- and third-generation Hispanics commit crimes at higher rates than non-Hispanic whites, but at lower rates than African Americans. As for the foreign-born, that is, first generation immigrants, for the most part, they keep their noses clean. The American Immigration Council records that “among men age 18-39 (who comprise the vast majority of the prison population), the 3.5 percent incarceration rate of the native-born in 2000 was 5 times higher than the 0.7 percent incarceration rate of the foreign-born.”
Having stoked rage about illegal immigrants, Mr. Trump now urges that after deporting 11 or 12 million people, he will “let the good ones come back,” force Mexico to pay for a “wall,” and “impound remittances” from “illegal wages.” A candidate for student council president of a third-rate high school could devise more serious solutions than those. But then, student council types tend to be in earnest. Trump is simply on the ultimate ego trip.
Published in General
Now that’s a bunch of viscera.
There’s the stoking, because viscera-brained conservatives need stoking. With no will of our own, we the pliable masses simply need cajoling when headed in the right direction, and a few jolts with the cattle prod when in error.
What Trump proposes is nothing more than the exact enforcement of our current laws. Deport illegals, admit legal immigrants. Perhaps Ms. Charen wishes that he had said “keep the dark ones out” or something, in order to more easily demonize us.
There is nothing unserious about this. Charen has not addressed the real problem. The Federal government does not enforce the laws, makes war upon the states which try, and has been stuffing non-assimilating hordes into our neighborhoods. All of this stuff she cites is just so much very expensive Potemkin machinery, the papier-mache of which an utterly false facade of lawful, competent government is constructed.
It exists. It sits. Unused. Unmanned. Unenforced.
Mona Charen: “As for the epidemic of crime for which illegal aliens are said to be responsible – it’s a myth.”
Thanks for clarifying that, Mona. Unhappily, the victims would disagree. That is if they could, many of them having been killed by illegals who shouldn’t have been here in the first place. Or are they just figments of Donald Trump’s viscera?
“The Sanctuary city of San Francisco protected the previously convicted illegal alien gang member charged in the murder of Michael Bologna, 20, his brother Matthew, 16, and his father Anthony, 48
http://www.fncic-voiacm.org/victims.php?id=588
Illegal alien stabs to death 24 year old college student Lauren Bump
http://www.fncic-voiacm.org/victims.php?id=1374
Illegal alien charged with murder for vicious stabbing death of Kathleen Byham in a Wal-Mart parking lot
http://www.fncic-voiacm.org/victims.php?id=1037
Twice deported illegal alien charged with murder of Sheriff’s Deputy Josie Fox, 37
http://www.fncic-voiacm.org/victims.php?id=1054
Mary Nagle – was raped and murdered by illegal alien who then uses her cell phone to brag about crime to her friends and family
http://www.fncic-voiacm.org/victims.php?id=40
Illegal Alien Kidnaps, Rapes, and Buries Alive an 8 Year Old Girl
http://www.fncic-voiacm.org/victims.php?id=115
Illegal Alien Abducts, Rapes, and Murders 10-Year Old Girl
http://www.fncic-voiacm.org/victims.php?id=256
Illegal Alien Kidnaps, Molests, Strangles, and Kills Esmerelda Nava, just 4 years old.
http://www.fncic-voiacm.org/victims.php?id=361
Mary Sadler, 74, is sexually assaulted and beaten to death by illegal alien
http://www.fncic-voiacm.org/victims.php?id=15
Twice deported illegal alien charged with raping Chandler, AZ girl, 14
http://www.fncic-voiacm.org/victims.php?id=450
Illegal Alien Charged With Raping 6 Year Old Girl
http://www.fncic-voiacm.org/victims.php?id=234
Drunk Illegal Alien Sexually Assaults and Murders 23 Year Old College Girl, Danielle Gorectke
http://www.fncic-voiacm.org/victims.php?id=315
Two illegal aliens charged with kidnap, rape, torture, and attempted murder.
http://www.fncic-voiacm.org/victims.php?id=437
Illegal alien rapes and brutally kills Natasha Ramen, 20
http://www.fncic-voiacm.org/victims.php?id=20
Two Illegal Aliens Brutally Rape NJ Woman
http://www.fncic-voiacm.org/victims.php?id=83
Illegal alien runs a red light and kills Pamila Yoder, a mother of three, who was headed home for her own birthday celebration
http://www.fncic-voiacm.org/victims.php?id=1068
Carina Saunders, 19, tortured then beheaded in Oklahoma
http://www.fncic-voiacm.org/victims.php?id=1079
Two Illegal Aliens Kidnap, Rape, Beat, and Leave for Dead an 18 Year Old Woman
http://www.fncic-voiacm.org/victims.php?id=238
6 Year Old Girl Raped by Illegal Alien
http://www.fncic-voiacm.org/victims.php?id=64
Illegal alien pleads guilty to attempted rape, sex abuse charges and murder of 15 year old Dani Countryman
http://www.fncic-voiacm.org/victims.php?id=570
Illegal alien charged with brutal rape, attempted murder in Newport News
http://www.fncic-voiacm.org/victims.php?id=1008
21-year-old homecoming queen, Jennifer Lee Hampton, was raped and strangled to death in motel room by an illegal alien working at the motel.
http://www.fncic-voiacm.org/victims.php?id=925
Illegal alien convicted of murdering Gloria Marie Applegate in alley after attempted rape
http://www.fncic-voiacm.org/victims.php?id=568
Illegal Alien Kidnaps and Sexually Assaults Girl, 6
http://www.fncic-voiacm.org/victims.php?id=223
Previously deported illegal alien rapes 12 year old girl
http://www.fncic-voiacm.org/victims.php?id=460
Illegal alien from Guatemala was arrested after he was caught raping a 2-year-old girl in her home and stabbing the girls father who came to her rescue
http://www.fncic-voiacm.org/victims.php?id=1201
Sean Marti, 24, and 5-month-old Sage Sea Marti were killed by drunk driving, illegal alien
http://www.fncic-voiacm.org/victims.php?id=45
Drunk Driving Illegal Alien Slams into Car – Kills 3, Seriously Injures 1
http://www.fncic-voiacm.org/victims.php?id=277
Twice Deported Illegal Alien Executes LA Cop David March
http://www.fncic-voiacm.org/victims.php?id=335
Drunk Driving Illegal Alien Kills Bicyclist, Brandon Haley, in Hit and Run Accident
http://www.fncic-voiacm.org/victims.php?id=157
Illegal Alien Arrested for Raping and Killing Woman, 74, After Being Convicted of Raping girl, 10
http://www.fncic-voiacm.org/victims.php?id=347
Drunk Driving Illegal Alien Runs Over Angel Avendano, 4, At Bus Stop
http://www.fncic-voiacm.org/victims.php?id=101
Previously Deported, Drunk Driving Illegal Alien with 4 Prior DUIs Kills Amy Kortlang, 22, in Hit-and-Run Accident
http://www.fncic-voiacm.org/victims.php?id=180
Drunk Driving Illegal Alien Who Had Been Deported 14 Times Kills Famous Mandolin Maker Charlie Derrington
http://www.fncic-voiacm.org/victims.php?id=210
Drunk Driving Illegal Alien Kills 3, Seriously Injures Another
http://www.fncic-voiacm.org/victims.php?id=139
Drunk Driving Illegal Alien with 5 Prior DUIs Kills Mt Juliet, TN Couple.
http://www.fncic-voiacm.org/victims.php?crimetype=dui&sb=120
UNC Student Min Chang Killed by Drunk Driving Illegal Alien with 3 prior DWIs and Who Had Been Deported 17 times!
http://www.fncic-voiacm.org/victims.php?id=41
Illegal Alien Brutally Rapes and Murders Britney Binger16
http://www.fncic-voiacm.org/victims.php?id=156
Illegal Alien with Long Criminal History Kills Motorcyclist Justin Goodman in Hit-and-Run Accident
http://www.fncic-voiacm.org/victims.php?id=324
Drunk Driving Illegal Alien with 3 Prior DUIs Kills Maria Ortiz, 49, and her Pregnant Daughter, Vanessa, 18
http://www.fncic-voiacm.org/victims.php?id=288
Twice Deported Drunk Driving Illegal Alien with Two Prior DUIs Kills 8-month Pregnant Woman Leanna Newman
http://www.fncic-voiacm.org/victims.php?id=387
An intoxicated illegal alien was charged with vehicular homicide in the deaths of Cheryl Ceran, 47, and two of her young children Ian, 15, and Julianna, 7. Three other family members were seriously injured.
http://www.fncic-voiacm.org/victims.php?id=575
Drunk Driving Illegal Alien Kills Marine Brian Matthews, 21, on Leave from Iraq and His Date Jennifer Bower, 24, on Thanksgiving.
http://www.fncic-voiacm.org/victims.php?id=316
Illegal Alien with 5 Deportations and 4 Prior Felonies Arrested for Murder
http://www.fncic-voiacm.org/victims.php?id=36
Illegal Alien Janitor Rapes 14 Year-Old Girl at School
http://www.fncic-voiacm.org/victims.php?id=200
Drunk Driving Illegal Alien Kills Meghan Hughes, 22, Ben Leonard, 16, and Jennifer Carter, 18 in North Carolina
http://www.fncic-voiacm.org/victims.php?id=110
Drunk Driving Illegal Alien Crashes Into Family Car, Killing Antione Bumvu, 43, and Eddy Bumvu, 2, and Seriously Injuring 2 more.
http://www.fncic-voiacm.org/victims.php?id=185
Drunk Driving Illegal Alien Crashed Into Parked Car Killing Crystal Cargua and Sylvester McLean.
http://www.fncic-voiacm.org/victims.php?id=198
Illegal Alien Gang Lines Up Four Youths and Shoots Them – 3 Die, 1 Survives
http://www.fncic-voiacm.org/victims.php?id=375
Illegal alien runs over off duty police officer, Vincent D’Anna, drags him to death as he tries to flee the scene
http://www.fncic-voiacm.org/victims.php?id=1044
Twice deported illegal alien charged with raping Chandler, AZ girl, 12, and suspected of numerous other assaults
http://www.fncic-voiacm.org/victims.php?id=446
Drunk Driving Illegal Alien Kills Nicole Allen, 21, and Seriously Injures Two Others
http://www.fncic-voiacm.org/victims.php?id=308
Drunk Driving Illegal Alien Kills Movie Director Bob Clark and His Son Ariel.
http://www.fncic-voiacm.org/victims.php?id=206
Tessa Tranchant, 16, and Allison Kunhardt, 17, were killed in Virginia Beach, VA by by drunk driving illegal alien Alfredo Ramos
http://www.fncic-voiacm.org/victims.php?id=11
Twenty-five year old mother Amy Bartelmay killed by drunk, speeding illegal alien
http://www.fncic-voiacm.org/victims.php?id=597
Illegal Alien Arrested for Killing Three and wounding Two
http://www.fncic-voiacm.org/victims.php?id=342
Drunk Driving IIlegal Runs Stop Sign – 2 Killed & 2 Critically Injured on Thanksgiving
http://www.fncic-voiacm.org/victims.php?id=357
Drunk Driving Illegal Alien with Previous DWIs Seriously Injures Bettie Coates in Wrong-Way Crash
http://www.fncic-voiacm.org/victims.php?id=321
Diane Bronson, 44, and daughter Anna, 11 killed by illegal alien driving the wrong-way on I-435
http://www.fncic-voiacm.org/victims.php?id=993
Drunk driving illegal alien kills nun, injures two others
http://www.fncic-voiacm.org/victims.php?id=928
Illegal alien charged with felony drunk driving in the death of teenager Joshua George on prom night
http://www.fncic-voiacm.org/victims.php?id=573
Drunk driving illegal alien slams into couple’s car causing extensive injuries, long rehabilitation time, and massive medical costs.
http://www.fncic-voiacm.org/victims.php?id=944
Louella Winton, 91, was killed by an illegal alien driver as she slept in her bed
http://www.fncic-voiacm.org/victims.php?id=581
Drunk Driving Illegal Alien Slams into Car – Kills Christopher Shackleford, 19, Julieanne Pascoe, 18, and Kelli Bourgeois, 19. Matthew Hunt, 24, was severely injured and is now permanently crippled.
http://www.fncic-voiacm.org/victims.php?id=275
Illegal Alien Smashes Into Car, Killing Dustin Inman and Seriously Injuring Two Others
http://www.fncic-voiacm.org/victims.php?id=130
Illegal Alien Murders Off-duty Police Officer Cop Hugo Arango and Injures Another Man
http://www.fncic-voiacm.org/victims.php?id=86
Drunk Driving Illegal Alien Runs Down Annie Cumpston, 6, In Crosswalk. Driver flees and Annie Dies a Few Hours Later.
http://www.fncic-voiacm.org/victims.php?id=170
Norfolk Police Officer Shiela Herring Murdered by Illegal Alien Who Had Been Deported Three Times
http://www.fncic-voiacm.org/victims.php?id=46
Illegal Alien Rapes Two Catholic Nuns, Kills Sister Helen Chaska
http://www.fncic-voiacm.org/victims.php?id=296
Illegal Alien Truck Driver Crushes Family of Four on I81 in Tennessee
http://www.fncic-voiacm.org/victims.php?id=107
Illegal Alien Kidnapped, raped, and murdered Vinessa Hora, 23
http://www.fncic-voiacm.org/victims.php?id=39
Illegal Alien Kidnaps and Rapes Girl, 10
http://www.fncic-voiacm.org/victims.php?id=339
Illegal Alien Sexually Assaults Westborough, MA Woman, 58, and Five Others
http://www.fncic-voiacm.org/victims.php?id=218
Illegal alien smugglers cause massive traffic accident killing 6 and injuring 15
http://www.fncic-voiacm.org/victims.php?id=427
Illegal Alien Shoots and Kills Police Officer Brandon Winfield
http://www.fncic-voiacm.org/victims.php?id=154
Illegal Alien Murders 3 Children, Beheads One, Nearly Decapitates Two
http://www.fncic-voiacm.org/victims.php?id=162
Illegal Alien Shoots Two Denver Cops – Kills Officer Donald Young and Seriously Injures Detective Bishop
http://www.fncic-voiacm.org/victims.php?id=336
Dallas Police Officer Brian Jackson gunned down by illegal alien while responding to a domestic disturbance call.
http://www.fncic-voiacm.org/victims.php?id=16
Two Illegal Aliens Kill Hispanic Leader Aniceto Armendariz On His Way Home from Church with Shotgun Blast
http://www.fncic-voiacm.org/victims.php?id=182
Huntsville, Alabama police officer Daniel Golden shot to death by an illegal alien while getting out of his patrol car
http://www.fncic-voiacm.org/victims.php?id=544
Twice Deported Illegal Alien Driving HIgh on Meth Kills College Dean Peggy Keller
http://www.fncic-voiacm.org/victims.php?id=303
Illegal Alien Murders Carly Snyder, 20, by Stabbing Her 37 Times
http://www.fncic-voiacm.org/victims.php?id=94
Illegal Alien Runs Red Light and Kills Middle School Principal Margaret Campbell
http://www.fncic-voiacm.org/victims.php?id=389
Navy Police Woman Christy Ayala, 24, Murdered By Illegal Alien
http://www.fncic-voiacm.org/victims.php?id=62
Drunk Driving Illegal Alien with 5 Prior DUIs Kills Mt Juliet, TN Couple, Donna and Sean Wilson
http://www.fncic-voiacm.org/victims.php?id=279
Lori Rountree, 44, and Daughter Adrian, 16, Murdered by Sixteen Year Old Illegal Alien
http://www.fncic-voiacm.org/victims.php?id=51
Illegal Alien Kills Ex-Football Coach David Bassore While Drag Racing on I-35
http://www.fncic-voiacm.org/victims.php?id=334
Illegal alien shoots ex-girlfriend Amanda Duran in the back of the head with a shotgun
http://www.fncic-voiacm.org/victims.php?id=549
Illegal Alien Stalks, Kidnaps and Beats Wirh Rubber Mallet a Woman Who Rejected His Advances
http://www.fncic-voiacm.org/victims.php?id=250
Officer Rodney Johnson was murdered by an illegal alien apprehended at a traffic stop
http://www.fncic-voiacm.org/victims.php?id=574
Illegal Alien Charged with Running Over Jogger Kimberly McDaniel and Leaving Her for Dead
http://www.fncic-voiacm.org/victims.php?id=386
Deputy Brian Tephford fatally shot by illegal alien during traffic stop
http://www.fncic-voiacm.org/victims.php?id=1042
Actress and talented screen writer Adrienne Shelly was murdered by an illegal alien in her Manhattan office
http://www.fncic-voiacm.org/victims.php?id=37
Illegal Alien Opens Fire on Cops – Kills Officer Corey Carbocci and Seriously Injures Deputy Brian Tephford
http://www.fncic-voiacm.org/victims.php?id=155
Drunk Driving Illegal Alien with 2 Prior DUI Convictions Kills Dwane Braswell, 35,
and His 9 Year Old Son Jerry
http://www.fncic-voiacm.org/victims.php?id=281
Illegal Alien Runs Over Eleven-Year-Old Gladys Reyes and Drags Her for 500 Yards
http://www.fncic-voiacm.org/victims.php?id=385
Illegal Aliens Kidnap, Torture, and Murder Linoshka Torres and Luis Campos, 20
http://www.fncic-voiacm.org/victims.php?id=254
Josh Morrow, 4, run over and killed by an illegal alien who fled the scene of the accident
http://www.fncic-voiacm.org/victims.php?id=552
Joey Zhang-Liu, 4, is sexually assaulted and murdered by illegal alien
http://www.fncic-voiacm.org/victims.php?id=21
Twice Deported, Drunk Driving Illegal Alien Kills George Smith
http://www.fncic-voiacm.org/victims.php?id=295
TSU track star Joycelyn Gardiner killed by drunk driving illegal alien
http://www.fncic-voiacm.org/victims.php?id=9
Nine year old Jordin Paulder murdered with an ax by an illegal alien
http://www.fncic-voiacm.org/victims.php?id=553
Deputy Frank Fabiano, a United States Marine, was murdered by a DUI illegal alien pulled over for a traffic violation
http://www.fncic-voiacm.org/victims.php?id=579
Illegal Alien Pleads Guilty To Raping Boy, 13, Near School
http://www.fncic-voiacm.org/victims.php?id=226
Twice deported illegal alien sexually assaults woman
http://www.fncic-voiacm.org/victims.php?id=442
Illegal Alien Arrested for Sexual Assault on Girl, 13, in Store
http://www.fncic-voiacm.org/victims.php?id=165
Illegal Alien Runs into 5 Highway Construction Workers Killing James Cronin and Martin Ruffin
http://www.fncic-voiacm.org/victims.php?id=350
Family of 3 Burned to Death When Their Car Is Hit by Drunk Driving Illegal Alien
http://www.fncic-voiacm.org/victims.php?id=47
Illegal Immigrant Charged With Raping Elderly Woman, 83
http://www.fncic-voiacm.org/victims.php?id=61
Officer Nick Erfle killed in shoot out with illegal alien
http://www.fncic-voiacm.org/victims.php?id=1045
Illegal Alien Arrested in California I-5 Freeway Rape
http://www.fncic-voiacm.org/victims.php?id=381
Illegal Alien Hit and Run Driver Kills Wheelchair Bound Mother Mary Denise Richey, 40
http://www.fncic-voiacm.org/victims.php?id=307
Bible Store owners killed by suspected illegal alien who cut their throats
http://www.fncic-voiacm.org/victims.php?id=1046
Illegal alien convicted of vehicular homicide after running stop light and killing two women and a three year old child
http://www.fncic-voiacm.org/victims.php?id=594 “
No. I would offer a 1 year amnesty allowing any non-criminal* illegal aliens to leave unmolested, but it would apply to all illegal aliens afterwards. Nobody would be given legal status.
During the amnesty year, we can construct a prison camp in southern Arizona. The progress of the construction will be shown on TV. The TV specials could even be hosted by Secretary of the Homeland Security Trump.
*The folks who are just illegal workers and such. The rapists, drunk drivers, murderers, and terrorists won’t get off so easy.
There is a humanitarian concern with planning to deport at least one parent of 4.5 million American children.
Annnnnnd, you fold. Their children will eat — yours will go hungry. You cannot run a system made of exceptions. You cannot sustain an economy dominated by counter-economic distortions. At this point, our choices are to shore up the system or everybody dive on welfare as fast as possible. Because only a sucker would continue to pay for this.
My children are doing just fine, thanks. Let’s stick to policy in this discussion.
It is not realistic to think we will be able to deport all of those families, along with their American children. A measure like that will never get through Congress.
Back to the
retardationthinking with one’s viscera, I see. First, take your “we can’t deport them all anyway” tripe back to the McCain campaign where you found it. Second, I mean all of our children. Those children who are the ultimate beneficiaries of policy — the reason we bother with policy at all. Those children. I am *exactly* talking about policy, and how we’ve had these arguments before. I remember the Reagan amnesty.Deport / induce illegals, not Americans. Let the criminals explain to their children why things happen, not the victims.
Re: comment #57 by Mr. Ax Man.
The drafters of the 14th amendment did not include the language you inadvertently dowdified out to be superfluous. The words had to have some constructive modification on the application of the general rule that birthplace controls citizenship. Some births on US soil are not automatically citizens, included in this subset are those that refuse to abide by the jurisdiction thereof. By not abiding by the correct channels of entering the country legally they have rejected it’s jurisdiction – possibly to reconquista Aztlan, possibly just to illicitly partake of a more affluent economy – but they are actively repudiating the jurisdiction of the US by their presence.
A few years ago the Mexican government took a Texas death penalty case to the US Supreme Court saying Texas did not have jurisdiction to apply the penalty to a Mexican national/illegal alien without allowing him to appeal to the Mexican consulate for diplomatic assistance, since that was the government that had actual jurisdiction over him. I agree with Mexico’s interpretation.
My proposal would be to give notice that all illegals in the country have two years from a given date to wrap up their affairs and leave, no questions asked. They will be unmolested in the interim, and will be eligible to re-enter the country legally subject to the laws in place at the time of entry.
After that given date, anyone found in the country illegally will be forcibly deported and permanently excluded from any eligibility to legally enter the country for any purpose, even tourism. If they are found in the country again, they will serve a prison term before being re-deported.
Attempting to tug at heartstrings. Let’s look at this:
You separated “American children” from “those families.” They must be two distinct entities.
You add a qualifier to children, American (nice touch), but You didn’t add the qualifier to families for obvious reasons. For instance: illegal, or Hispanic, or Mexican, or Latin, or whatever.
“American children” was intentional and separate so as to make it look as though We want to deport American Citizens, and children no less.
Nice try.
Mona,
They were talking about the 14th Amendment on the radio that there is nothing in the Constitution that supports a child born of illegal immigrants automatically becoming a US citizen – born of legal immigrants is a different story – is that the confusion?
On a personal note, I agree with the majority of comments here – the illegal immigration issue is huge. The crimes alone, with administration releasing the criminals into our neighborhoods instead of deporting them is bad enough. The enormous costs to cities, schools, healthcare and hospitals, etc. is huge. They all get benefits – how is that possible? Who pays for it? If they are illegal, they do not pay taxes – most work on a cash basis and send much of their money back to their families in Mexico. We pay taxes so and they get benefits. No one is against illegals, from any country, fleeing persecution, wanting a better life. Our ancestors did the same – but there is the rule of law and t needs to be respected and adhered to. Let us also not forget, terrorists are blending into the wave of immigrants crossing over. Trump is not afraid of anyone so he is speaking what people have been wanting acknowledged – no more tiptoeing. If you have not seen this story yet, please watch: http://www.theblaze.com/stories/2015/07/21/watch-as-ice-director-is-forced-to-tell-ted-cruz-hes-absolutely-right-after-he-disputes-her-claim-during-hearing/
MWM, I think you need to be lectured some more about the pointedly obvious but inconsequential truths which are easily ignored by those in power. You just don’t get it, viscera-for-brains.
Like so many big issues it seems like we can’t even address them honestly. Frankly I blame the left primarily because I can give example after example where they are completely disingenuous (they lie) about what their actual goals are. Yes the R’s are chickens@#$ on immigration but I think that’s mainly because #1 they are scared to death someone will call them racist, #2 they have bought the line that taking a stand on immigration will cost them the hispanic vote and every election. The Democrats just want voters plain and simple. It is only possible to reach a compromise on methods when the over all goal is the same and they are not.
This is not what I pay my membership fee for. I am checking out of discussing this topic any further with you. Have a good night.
You have read very deeply into what I have written. They are American. What race/ethnicity they are does not matter. I also mentioned in earlier posts that the children had at least one undocumented parent. I have referred to illegal immigrants in the majority of my posts in this thread. If you wish to ascribe to me bad intentions based off of one post, so be it. I need to get going, so good night.
This actually reads pretty accurately to me Jimmy. The kids are legally American, hence if they are deported then you are deporting American kids. This is a legal fact no matter what anyone thinks about it.
Nice try by you :)
Nobody’s deporting the kids. If the kid wants to stay without their parents, they can. But if they choose to stay with their (illegal) parents, they’ll have to go where the parents go.
I was merely pointing out that her statement was accurate in that the kids are citizens. Don’t get miffed. hehe :)
I didn’t say They weren’t.
Reread:
Her tactic is an attempt to appeal to emotions is My point.
Could have sufficed.
Good night. I see she missed the part where we exactly paid for being accused of thinking with our viscera.
I’m sorry but that notion of jurisdiction isn’t how it works. One doesn’t get to “repudiate” the jurisdiction of a government. You don’t get to refuse to abide by it.
For example, if a resident of State A drives his car into State B he is automatically subject to the jurisdiction of State B, even if he doesn’t have a license to drive. Foreign diplomats and (in those days) the Indian tribes were the groups whose children would not be citizens as they were not subject to the jurisdiction of the US government.
Believe me, I wish it were otherwise regarding children of illegal aliens, and for all I know the Supreme Court could rule otherwise, but the plain meaning of the 14th Amendment does not mean what you and Mark Levin thinks it means.
I have to agree with this, and hope that it is true.
Because illegals disregard our immigration laws and procedures, they should leave.
Anchor babies suckle on American pity, that in the end will not bring the Anchor Baby, or parent the ‘dream’ they hope to gain.
It is foolishness to permit illegals to stay, regardless of the citizenship of their child. We are not deporting the child, it is the parent being deported.
If the anchor baby is indeed a citizen, the parents can find a home with an American or legitimate legal alien. It’s called guardianship.
If the parent can’t find a guardian, they can exit the country with their child. If the child is indeed a citizen by birth, the child may return alone, as an adult. But the person who broke our law is restricted from return.
Sadly, because we’ve ignored our own laws, we have this giant mess.
The mess is exponential because of incentives anchor babies generate; because we permit social safety net services for illegal aliens.
For those who enter legally, and follow the laws and procedures: is there anything in American immigration law or in the Visa paperwork that says: if you bear a child on US soil, the child is guaranteed American citizenship?
Either it is the soil that generates citizenship, or the parent. It should be spelled out, upon entry, within the documents that grant entry.
But there is no sane way to justify that someone who broke the law to enter should get citizen privileges for their children while denying it to those who have entered legally.
We don’t need to seek out illegals for deportation. We just need to stop providing them with welfare; with free public schooling; with obama care; with jobs supported by American scofflaws.
We don’t need to punish illegals. We need to punish employers for hiring illegals. It seems punishment for hiring illegals is worth the risk, otherwise illegals would not have jobs.
If it is truly our humanitarian duty to care for illegal aliens and their children, then families in America should step up, and open their personal home, table and bank account to Anchor babies and one parent. Because that is essentially what is happening.
It’s called Sponsorship: What people do for a green card.
But as is often the case: Not. In. My. Back. Yard.
If we ‘should’ do that, then we need to set that up.
If Americans agree it’s foolish and insane, we need to stand up and say, “No. More.”
Sorry guy, close but no cigar. The controlling case on this issue,Yick Wo v Hopkins, back in 1886 restricted birthright citizenship to legal aliens. No illegal aliens are covered and Congress through Article I, Section 8 has the power to do away with birthright citizenship whenever it gets a) the cojones and b) Justices that won’t pull things out of the penumbras of what feels right.
I couldn’t quote your whole post because of word restrictions, but I agree with everything in it with two quibbles, both legalistic.
A person can’t reject the country’s jurisdiction. It simply doesn’t work that way. That’s not what jurisdiction means. It’s like in the Chicago Eight trial when Black Panther Bobby Seale tells Judge Hoffman that he rejects the court’s jurisdiction. Can’t be done. Instead, he gets bound and gagged and finally sent to prison for four years for contempt. Criminals, including illegal aliens, are subject to our country’s jurisdiction when they are in the country no matter how they arrived.
Second, and this is good news for you, I think: The children of legal immigrants who are born here are citizens, no question about it.
The State can “Trump” a person’s repudiation of jurisdiction if it desires, but it’s not obligated to do so to confer a benefit. The 14th amendment was purposefully written to draw a distinction between those here legally and those that repudiated our values and laws – that’s what the extra language that you dowdified out was for, and is explicitly described in the legislative history prior to passage of the amendment.
From the debate on the Civil Rights Act: 39th Congress:
Mr. Cowan: “…Therefore I think, before we assert broadly that everybody who shall be born in the United States shall be taken to be citizen of the United States, we ought to exclude others besides Indians not taxed, because I look upon Indians not taxed as being much less dangerous and much less pestiferous to a society than I look upon Gypsies…
You keep saying “dowdified” as if that strengthens your argument. I don’t think it does.
The legislative history to which you refer concerned mostly whether the Indians would be citizens under this provision. Keep in mind that in 1868 there were many tribes who did not live in any state, and were not subject to the jurisdiction of even the federal government in any meaningful way. There were civilized Indians living amongst the citizenry, there were Indians on reservations with their own tribal governments, and there were wild Indians in the west. There was a vigorous debate as to which of these, if any, would become citizens under the new amendment.
There was some brief discussion as to whether certain races, especially the Chinese and Gypsies, would be citizens. Though some lawmakers were against them on racist grounds, the general opinion was that they should be citizens the same as everyone else.
I can find nothing in that legislative history to support the notion that the legislators were concerned with drawing “a distinction between those here legally and those that repudiated our values and laws.” If you know of it, I’d be very interested in reading it.
Mona and V. S. B., I’m guessing you’re feeling a bit disheartened now. Just remember that Ricochet is a lot more than what is dominating this thread. And even those dominating this thread are a lot more than their incomprehensible support for Donald Trump. Get them away from Trump and you have a great bunch.
But why on earth ARE they supporting Trump? I figure it’s because Trump and Obama are the same. They are the feel-good polititicans. They really get back at “those guys.” And they are each symbols of political savior of the nation, one blue and one red. Except that the blue one really is blue while the red one is not red at all. In fact, if anything, Trump is a blue Trojan Horse temporarily painted red.
Trump suppporters, the presidential election is not a revolution. It’s an election. If you want a revolution, good. I might even join you. But we need a Washington, a John Adams, a Patrick Henry, a Jefferson, a Madison. NOT a Donald Trump! You choose Trump for either role, to run for office or lead a revolution, and anyone not in your group is going to see a whole lot of viscera and not much brain. No way that’s ever going to change.
My understanding of the term in that era is that Gypsies were not just Roma but any group that flaunted conventional morality and social authority. There is also much language in the debates concerning “complete jurisdiction” [I can only assume as opposed to limited jurisdiction] and further defined it as:
Trumbull, during the debate, said, “What do we [the committee reporting the clause] mean by ‘subject to the jurisdiction of the United States’? Not owing allegiance to anybody else. That is what it means.”
Not that Mona or anyone who dismisses Trump out of hand cares but this study suggests that the majority of Americans are to the right of Trump on immigration. The people are already stoked it seems. The easiest way to take down Trump’s numbers is to move to the right of him on this issue but I’m not sure how that can be done in a way that seems authentic at this point.
From the tone of the criticism it just seems that many are outraged that a reality show host has the audacity to think he can swagger into the oval office and besmirch its grand dignity. But hey, I’d rather have someone like Trump there than Jeb! who thinks that Americans are stupid and lazy and only the vibrant dynamism of central america can make this country work again.