Peer Pressure

 

It was a long time ago… if you ask my kids, the earth was still cooling and the continents were stuck together… but I remember what it was like to be a teenager. A fat, unpopular teenager who had to ask a cousin to the senior prom.

I have ranted many times about the way boys and young men are treated by our present society. They are told their masculinity is toxic. They are told their country is something to be ashamed of, not proud of. Especially if they’re white, they’re told that everything is their fault, and they can never apologize or be sufficiently sorry about it. Few of them have fathers or father figures at home.  Professions they aspire to, like cops, firemen, welders and plumbers, are sneered at. Then they’re told that the earth will burn up in ten or twelve years, and anything they do about it will never be enough. And we wonder why they commit suicide or go on shooting rampages.

I’m going to voice another unpopular opinion (I would never dare say this on Facebook). I think the increase in young men identifying as gay or trans is directly related to this. You want to go from being despised to being cool in one easy step? Come out as gay, or pick one of the other clickbait sexualities. Poof: you’re no longer the oppressor, you’re a victim.

It’s the only escape they have.

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  1. Annefy Member
    Annefy
    @Annefy

    Zafar (View Comment):

    Annefy (View Comment):

    @ zafar re comment #27

    I don’t know what a bunch of “cope” is. But you have no idea what you’re talking about. And yes, 80% of the people I’m talking about are of the Right. And while the mother of the Trans child of which I speak is not of the Right, the child’s father is. As is his stepmother. As are all his grandparents.

    Despise? By including the definition of the word “despise” … well, now I’m pissed. I don’t appreciate being accused of regarding people I genuinely love with contempt, distaste or scorn. And loathe?

    And in fact you haven’t as far as I can recall made any vile posts or comments about gay or trans people. But plenty of other people have. Why are you so sure that you, and your probably quite lovely family, are typical of the Right rather than outliers?

    Consider:

    State lawmakers have proposed a record 238 bills that would limit the rights of LGBTQ Americans this year [2022] — or more than three per day — with about half of them targeting transgender people specifically.

    What’s that about? Three a day seems like a lot  

    you’re going to have to be more specific than that.  And no – I ain’t clicking on your link  

    What “rights” are being denied ? Tell me and then we’ll talk 

     

    • #31
  2. Annefy Member
    Annefy
    @Annefy

    Zafar (View Comment):

    Annefy (View Comment):

    @ zafar re comment #27

    I don’t know what a bunch of “cope” is. But you have no idea what you’re talking about. And yes, 80% of the people I’m talking about are of the Right. And while the mother of the Trans child of which I speak is not of the Right, the child’s father is. As is his stepmother. As are all his grandparents.

    Despise? By including the definition of the word “despise” … well, now I’m pissed. I don’t appreciate being accused of regarding people I genuinely love with contempt, distaste or scorn. And loathe?

    And in fact you haven’t as far as I can recall made any vile posts or comments about gay or trans people. But plenty of other people have. Why are you so sure that you, and your probably quite lovely family, are typical of the Right rather than outliers?

    Consider:

    State lawmakers have proposed a record 238 bills that would limit the rights of LGBTQ Americans this year [2022] — or more than three per day — with about half of them targeting transgender people specifically.

    What’s that about? Three a day seems like a lot.

    I’m hoping that your not stupid enough to think that disapproving of another’s life style equals “despise” or “loathe” of the individual. Actually, stupidity is your best defense at this point.

    And you’re foolish to equate anything that is said online at Ricochet or any other forum on this issue to be the same as how someone treats other people. My most ardent Catholic friends and Evangelical relatives (100% on the right) have treated the Trans people and gay people in my life and their own with nothing but grace and good manners.

    What might be stupid unwise would be to claim that being polite to people means that you respect them. And you can be as polite to them as you want, but if you support laws which harm people then you are just outsourcing treating them badly.

    Because there’s no excuse for bad manners.

    Self awareness is always such a struggle for me :-(

    oh wait. Now respect is being demanded ? Mind read much? What do you care how I feel and whether or not I “respect” you if I treat you like a decent human being? 

     

    • #32
  3. Zafar Member
    Zafar
    @Zafar

    Annefy (View Comment):
    oh wait. Now respect is being demanded ?

    It’s the opposite of contempt. Which is what we were talking about.

    Mind read much? What do you care how I feel and whether or not I “respect” you if I treat you like a decent human being?

    Treating each other decently involves more than good manners.

    • #33
  4. Annefy Member
    Annefy
    @Annefy

    Zafar (View Comment):

    Annefy (View Comment):
    oh wait. Now respect is being demanded ?

    It’s the opposite of contempt. Which is what we were talking about.

    Mind read much? What do you care how I feel and whether or not I “respect” you if I treat you like a decent human being?

    Treating each other decently involves more than good manners.

    Really? Please, do tell me what else is needed more than good manners? I am all ears. Because that rule has served me well for decades. And it has served well all those I’ve interacted with.

    And you don’t get to demand my respect. If I behave badly, you’ve got every right to complain. But newsflash: you don’t get my respect. You earn it. And if I decide for any reason that I don’t respect you, tough. You get to complain how I behave; you don’t get to complain about how I feel.

    I’m not demanding your respect. Don’t demand mine.

    • #34
  5. Annefy Member
    Annefy
    @Annefy

    Annefy (View Comment):

    Zafar (View Comment):

    Annefy (View Comment):

    @ zafar re comment #27

    I don’t know what a bunch of “cope” is. But you have no idea what you’re talking about. And yes, 80% of the people I’m talking about are of the Right. And while the mother of the Trans child of which I speak is not of the Right, the child’s father is. As is his stepmother. As are all his grandparents.

    Despise? By including the definition of the word “despise” … well, now I’m pissed. I don’t appreciate being accused of regarding people I genuinely love with contempt, distaste or scorn. And loathe?

    And in fact you haven’t as far as I can recall made any vile posts or comments about gay or trans people. But plenty of other people have. Why are you so sure that you, and your probably quite lovely family, are typical of the Right rather than outliers?

    Consider:

    State lawmakers have proposed a record 238 bills that would limit the rights of LGBTQ Americans this year [2022] — or more than three per day — with about half of them targeting transgender people specifically.

    What’s that about? Three a day seems like a lot

    you’re going to have to be more specific than that. And no – I ain’t clicking on your link

    What “rights” are being denied ? Tell me and then we’ll talk

     

    So many questions unanswered …

    • #35
  6. Zafar Member
    Zafar
    @Zafar

    Annefy (View Comment):

    Treating each other decently involves more than good manners.

    Really? Please, do tell me what else is needed more than good manners?

    Some honesty? Some humility? Some consideration for others?

    And you don’t get to demand my respect. If I behave badly, you’ve got every right to complain. But newsflash: you don’t get my respect. You earn it. And if I decide for any reason that I don’t respect you, tough. You get to complain how I behave; you don’t get to complain about how I feel.

    Fair call.

    I’m not demanding your respect. Don’t demand mine.

    I think all human beings start from a position of getting some basic respect.  Whether they gain or lose it after that is up to them.  I just don’t think we start off in a neutral position

    Annefy (View Comment):
    So many questions unanswered …

    Just a click away.

    • #36
  7. Zafar Member
    Zafar
    @Zafar

    More peer pressure:

    https://www.wonkette.com/a-neo-nazi-upset-about-drag-queens-firebombed-a-church

     

    • #37
  8. Annefy Member
    Annefy
    @Annefy

    Zafar (View Comment):

    Annefy (View Comment):

    Treating each other decently involves more than good manners.

    Really? Please, do tell me what else is needed more than good manners?

    Some honesty? Some humility? Some consideration for others?

    I have no idea how you were raised, but if honesty, humility and consideration for others is not exhibited, that would fall under “bad manners”

     

    • #38
  9. Annefy Member
    Annefy
    @Annefy

    Annefy (View Comment):

    Annefy (View Comment):

    Zafar (View Comment):

    Annefy (View Comment):

    @ zafar re comment #27

    I don’t know what a bunch of “cope” is. But you have no idea what you’re talking about. And yes, 80% of the people I’m talking about are of the Right. And while the mother of the Trans child of which I speak is not of the Right, the child’s father is. As is his stepmother. As are all his grandparents.

    Despise? By including the definition of the word “despise” … well, now I’m pissed. I don’t appreciate being accused of regarding people I genuinely love with contempt, distaste or scorn. And loathe?

    And in fact you haven’t as far as I can recall made any vile posts or comments about gay or trans people. But plenty of other people have. Why are you so sure that you, and your probably quite lovely family, are typical of the Right rather than outliers?

    Consider:

    State lawmakers have proposed a record 238 bills that would limit the rights of LGBTQ Americans this year [2022] — or more than three per day — with about half of them targeting transgender people specifically.

    What’s that about? Three a day seems like a lot

    you’re going to have to be more specific than that. And no – I ain’t clicking on your link

    What “rights” are being denied ? Tell me and then we’ll talk

     

    So many questions unanswered …

    When editing a comment, one should include the necessary parts.

    The question that I am referring to is bolded above.

     

    • #39
  10. Zafar Member
    Zafar
    @Zafar

    It’s at the link.  You refuse to click on it? Fine.

    • #40
  11. Zafar Member
    Zafar
    @Zafar

    Annefy (View Comment):

    Zafar (View Comment):

    Annefy (View Comment):

    Treating each other decently involves more than good manners.

    Really? Please, do tell me what else is needed more than good manners?

    Some honesty? Some humility? Some consideration for others?

    I have no idea how you were raised, but if honesty, humility and consideration for others is not exhibited, that would fall under “bad manners”

    The point is people can be externally polite but also (for eg) deeply dishonest in how they deal with others.  

    • #41
  12. Annefy Member
    Annefy
    @Annefy

    Zafar (View Comment):

    you’re going to have to be more specific than that. And no – I ain’t clicking on your link

    What “rights” are being denied ? Tell me and then we’ll talk

    From my original comment regarding the matter:

    “you’re going to have to be more specific than that. And no – I ain’t clicking on your link

    What “rights” are being denied ? Tell me and then we’ll talk”

    • #42
  13. Zafar Member
    Zafar
    @Zafar

    Annefy (View Comment):

    Zafar (View Comment):

    you’re going to have to be more specific than that. And no – I ain’t clicking on your link

    What “rights” are being denied ? Tell me and then we’ll talk

    From my original comment regarding the matter:

    “you’re going to have to be more specific than that. And no – I ain’t clicking on your link

    What “rights” are being denied ? Tell me and then we’ll talk”

    Why are you not clicking that link?  What point are you making?

    Edited to add:

    I certainly don’t know the details of all these laws, some  I would agree with, some I would think are wrong.

    My point is that it’s a LOT of laws.  Showing (?) a remarkable focus on this/these issue/s from both sides of the aisle.

    • #43
  14. TBA Coolidge
    TBA
    @RobtGilsdorf

    I would like to step out on a limb here and oppose fire-bombing and shooting children regardless of whose ‘party’ the bomber/shooter happens to belong to. 

    More than that, I would ask whether a person crazy enough or evil enough to commit these crimes can actually be representative of anything larger than him or her (or whatever) self. 

    A woman pretending to be a man who kills a bunch of kids is certainly newsworthy, but this is one out of a much bigger population. How much bigger? No one knows because membership is completely voluntary and numbers are cooked to purpose. 

    Still, annoying as I find most trans the media subject us to, I am not persuaded their weirdness is innately murderous. 

    Their culture? Maybe. But I think the culture that is pushing these sprees is wider than we know and well-rooted in a generation of people. 

    • #44
  15. TBA Coolidge
    TBA
    @RobtGilsdorf

    Zafar (View Comment):

    TBA (View Comment):

    I believe this stuff is happening more in junior high and high school where a person can gain overnight popularity with proto-Karens by declaring ‘other’. Extra points if they can do your hair and nails.

    You know, I am basically not at odds with the view that there are suddenly a LOT of kids declaring themselves non-binary or trans, and that this seems to be unlikely to be a genuine thing for the vast majority. I think it is meaningful that more girls than boys do this – and that there is more to this than girls being more fluid in their sexuality than boys. It does make one wonder why being a woman is such an unattractive proposition for so many young girls today. Is it feminism? Is it traditional gender roles? Is it both? Is it something else entirely? Who knows? It’s not a discussion I’ve seen, or indeed a discussion most conservatives seem even aware that you might/should be having. (Ditto for Leftists.)

    What I am not on board with is this whole ‘they say that they’re gay to be cool and accepted in High School’ thing. It’s basically a huge cope, basically, for people who are uncomfortable with gay or trans kids existing as a thing. “They’re doing it to be popular” is a cop out. It’s on par with “they’re doing drugs to be cool” – rather than “they’re doing drugs because it gives them pleasure”. It’s not dealing with reality.

    If you are socially awkward and unpopular when you’re straight – guess what? You’ll still be socially awkward and unpopular when you’re gay or trans. You’re still you. If anything you lose whatever capital you had from being part of the majority. Your might rise in the perception of SJWs but guess what again? They aren’t in school with you. Maybe you can hang out with Miss Anne (maybe, if you’re willing to be an accessory like a hand bag or a French Baguette), but that’s hardly a social victory. And you know what? Miss Anne isn’t that popular either.

    btw, I don’t think coming out as gay has much social cache anymore. 

    Bi, maybe. 

    But trans is where the polarizing and hysteria center. 

    • #45
  16. Annefy Member
    Annefy
    @Annefy

    TBA (View Comment):

    Zafar (View Comment):

    TBA (View Comment):

    I believe this stuff is happening more in junior high and high school where a person can gain overnight popularity with proto-Karens by declaring ‘other’. Extra points if they can do your hair and nails.

    You know, I am basically not at odds with the view that there are suddenly a LOT of kids declaring themselves non-binary or trans, and that this seems to be unlikely to be a genuine thing for the vast majority. I think it is meaningful that more girls than boys do this – and that there is more to this than girls being more fluid in their sexuality than boys. It does make one wonder why being a woman is such an unattractive proposition for so many young girls today. Is it feminism? Is it traditional gender roles? Is it both? Is it something else entirely? Who knows? It’s not a discussion I’ve seen, or indeed a discussion most conservatives seem even aware that you might/should be having. (Ditto for Leftists.)

    What I am not on board with is this whole ‘they say that they’re gay to be cool and accepted in High School’ thing. It’s basically a huge cope, basically, for people who are uncomfortable with gay or trans kids existing as a thing. “They’re doing it to be popular” is a cop out. It’s on par with “they’re doing drugs to be cool” – rather than “they’re doing drugs because it gives them pleasure”. It’s not dealing with reality.

    If you are socially awkward and unpopular when you’re straight – guess what? You’ll still be socially awkward and unpopular when you’re gay or trans. You’re still you. If anything you lose whatever capital you had from being part of the majority. Your might rise in the perception of SJWs but guess what again? They aren’t in school with you. Maybe you can hang out with Miss Anne (maybe, if you’re willing to be an accessory like a hand bag or a French Baguette), but that’s hardly a social victory. And you know what? Miss Anne isn’t that popular either.

    btw, I don’t think coming out as gay has much social cache anymore.

    Bi, maybe.

    But trans is where the polarizing and hysteria center.

    @Zafar:  Comments like this make it clear why you don’t understand what “there’s no excuse for bad manners”means. 

    • #46
  17. Zafar Member
    Zafar
    @Zafar

    TBA (View Comment):

    btw, I don’t think coming out as gay has much social cache anymore. 

    We are yesterday’s news….sigh…

    Bi, maybe. 

    But trans is where the polarizing and hysteria center. 

    Do you think both sides of politics are using it?  Meaning, would it be as big a deal as it is if it wasn’t so politically useful as a polarising/motivating tool?  Which is great for politics, but not so great for society.

    With the JK Rowling thing, I ran into an article by a trans woman who is sympathetic to her, if not in agreeement.  It ends with:

    Let’s start being kind to one another, because only when we join hands will the world become a better place for the both of us.

    • #47
  18. Zafar Member
    Zafar
    @Zafar

    Annefy (View Comment):
    I’m hoping that you’re not stupid enough to think that disapproving of another’s life style equals “despise” or “loathe” of the individual. Actually, stupidity is your best defense at this point.

    I’m at peace with my understanding of politeness.

    • #48
  19. Annefy Member
    Annefy
    @Annefy

    Zafar (View Comment):

    Annefy (View Comment):

    Zafar (View Comment):

    Annefy (View Comment):

    Treating each other decently involves more than good manners.

    Really? Please, do tell me what else is needed more than good manners?

    Some honesty? Some humility? Some consideration for others?

    I have no idea how you were raised, but if honesty, humility and consideration for others is not exhibited, that would fall under “bad manners”

    The point is people can be externally polite but also (for eg) deeply dishonest in how they deal with others.

    I am deeply dishonest in how I deal with people a decent percentage of each day. So what? I am unfailingly polite to customer service people who have no idea how to competently provide service; my boss, who is suddenly bothered by spam texts and feels the need to text me to let me know whenever he has received yet another one; his wife, who has a deep disdain for the Catholic religion and finds a new challenge whenever we’re together; half the drivers in Los Angeles. Just a few examples from a very long list.

    • #49
  20. Zafar Member
    Zafar
    @Zafar

    Annefy (View Comment):

    Zafar (View Comment):

    Annefy (View Comment):

    Zafar (View Comment):

    Annefy (View Comment):

    Treating each other decently involves more than good manners.

    Really? Please, do tell me what else is needed more than good manners?

    Some honesty? Some humility? Some consideration for others?

    I have no idea how you were raised, but if honesty, humility and consideration for others is not exhibited, that would fall under “bad manners”

    The point is people can be externally polite but also (for eg) deeply dishonest in how they deal with others.

    I am deeply dishonest in how I deal with people a decent percentage of each day. So what? I am unfailingly polite to customer service people who have no idea how to competently provide service; my boss, who is suddenly bothered by spam texts and feels the need to text me to let me know whenever he has received yet another one; his wife, who has a deep disdain for the Catholic religion and finds a new challenge whenever we’re together; half the drivers in Los Angeles. Just a few examples from a very long list.

    What differentiates this from dishonesty which did them harm?

    • #50
  21. TBA Coolidge
    TBA
    @RobtGilsdorf

    Zafar (View Comment):

    TBA (View Comment):

    btw, I don’t think coming out as gay has much social cache anymore.

    We are yesterday’s news….sigh…

    Bi, maybe.

    But trans is where the polarizing and hysteria center.

    Do you think both sides of politics are using it? Meaning, would it be as big a deal as it is if it wasn’t so politically useful as a polarising/motivating tool? Which is great for politics, but not so great for society.

    Maybe? Probably? It’s doubtless pretty useful for getting campaign contributions from either side. 

    Within the context of school toleration/encouragement/collusion, I believe it is a fight worth having as it speaks to something more fundamental than sexual identity and self-expression. 

    Specifically what the hell you people (educators) think you are doing with my children. 

    • #51
  22. Annefy Member
    Annefy
    @Annefy

    Zafar (View Comment):

    Annefy (View Comment):

    Zafar (View Comment):

    Annefy (View Comment):

    Zafar (View Comment):

    Annefy (View Comment):

    Treating each other decently involves more than good manners.

    Really? Please, do tell me what else is needed more than good manners?

    Some honesty? Some humility? Some consideration for others?

    I have no idea how you were raised, but if honesty, humility and consideration for others is not exhibited, that would fall under “bad manners”

    The point is people can be externally polite but also (for eg) deeply dishonest in how they deal with others.

    I am deeply dishonest in how I deal with people a decent percentage of each day. So what? I am unfailingly polite to customer service people who have no idea how to competently provide service; my boss, who is suddenly bothered by spam texts and feels the need to text me to let me know whenever he has received yet another one; his wife, who has a deep disdain for the Catholic religion and finds a new challenge whenever we’re together; half the drivers in Los Angeles. Just a few examples from a very long list.

    What differentiates this from dishonesty which did them harm?

    I’m sorry. I don’t understand this.

    • #52
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