20 Years Ago on March 19…

 

Smoke covers the presidential palace compound during a massive US-led air raid in Baghdad, March 2003…US President George W. Bush ordered air strikes on Baghdad, launching the war for “regime change” and the ousting of Iraqi dictator Saddam Hussein.

The war was premised on the belief that Hussein was manufacturing and staging weapons of mass destruction to be used against his enemies. Such a belief is now deemed to have been false, although the length of time between Colin Powell’s February 5 address to the United Nations, in which he laid out the case, and the subsequent Allied invasion – exactly six weeks later – left plenty of time for such efforts to be covered up, dismantled, or moved.

And so, with apparent evidence on both sides to support their respective cases, the conspiracy theorists, and the conspiracy realists, continue to joust over the truth, which is likely never to be fully known.

Regardless, or irregardless as the case may be, I remember the television coverage of those aerial attacks on that day exactly two decades ago. It was awe-inspiring, and thrilling.  The subsequent initial phase of the land war – which lasted just over a month and was spearheaded by the United States with support from the United Kingdom, Australia and Poland, and the following “quagmire” years resulted in the deaths and wounding, both physically and mentally, of tens of thousands of Allied troops, and in consequences that we, and they, still live with today.

As cowards do, Saddam Hussein ran away and hid from reprisals, remaining undiscovered until December 2003, when American soldiers found him, filthy and deranged, hiding in a hole in the ground near ad-Dawr. He was subsequently interrogated, tried, and executed (by the interim Iraqi government) on December 30, 2006. Sic semper tyrannis.

Today, I remember not the meretricious crapweasels of the various governments on all sides who have been – ever since – revising the rather clear history of the war, those who started it, and even, sometimes, those who fought in it. I choose rather to remember the valiant soldiers from all services and all nations who fought, and those who were wounded and who died in the cause of freedom and to keep us safe.

From February 7, 2001–just a month into the first Persian Gulf War:

And from the UK:

Australia:

And Poland:

Thank you.

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  1. Caryn Thatcher
    Caryn
    @Caryn

    Instugator (View Comment):

    Steven Seward (View Comment):
    That means it doesn’t come from doctors or nurses or anybody in the medical field.

    Incorrect.

    Doctors are the ones who file VAERS reports.

    This is a huge digression from the OP and, consequently, pretty inconsiderate.  I’ll just take a minute to correct your statement and that will be the end of my engagement on the topic.

    VAERS reports can be filed by ANYONE.  Follow this link to the reporting page.  It’s a working link, incidentally, unlike the one you’re berating Steven about not watching.  Check your work.

    • #151
  2. Steven Seward Member
    Steven Seward
    @StevenSeward

    Instugator (View Comment):

    Steven Seward (View Comment):

    Instugator (View Comment):

    Steven Seward (View Comment):
    I find it hard to believe that the Iraqi insurgency was caused by the Coalition Provisional Government not dealing with the tribal elders.

    It seems you find a lot hard to believe. It is ok, believe what you like.

    Don’t let me try to dissuade you.

    The briefing you so easily dismiss was taught at the US Army war college and framed the basis for part of the surge (2007-2008) that ended the insurgency.

    As I told you before, there was no video of any army briefing at your link in comment #71. There was nothing for me to dismiss.

    Ah it is called “new information”. You dismissed the video, which depicts the PowerPoint using stop motion. That was the old information. You dismissed this.

    The briefing has been taught at the US Army War College. That is the new information.

    You don’t seem to understand.  You keep talking about some video of a military talk about the insurgency in Iraq, but the actual link you gave us to see this talk in comment #71 turns out to be some postage stamp-sized stick figure with  writing on it that says “I own a construction company.”  The video plays for five seconds while absolutely nothing happens on the screen.  Look for yourself- Instugator’s linked video here:

    https://encrypted-vtbn0.gstatic.com/video?q=tbn:ANd9GcSvhWSIWauiP-PAxQMsoQokfVwdv0u8cWZeYg

    • #152
  3. Zafar Member
    Zafar
    @Zafar

    Manny (View Comment):

    Joseph Stanko (View Comment):

    Manny (View Comment):

    When I was growing up, it was the left that built conspiracy theories about the CIA and covert operations in foreign countries that slandered the US. I’m not saying that the CIA was pure, but the radicals went with slander first without any facts. To my dismay, it’s now conservatives who do the same thing. These same people who claimed the Iraq invasion was built on a lie are the same people who claim the CIA started the Ukraine/Russian war.

    That’s nothing new, back in the 60’s we had conservatives claiming fluoridation was a Commie plot. People who obsess over politics seem prone to believing conspiracy theories, on both ends of the spectrum.

    What I’m pointing out is the anti Americanism. It’s the blame America first mentality.

    Different from the praise America first mentality?

    Conservatives had a presumption that fundamentally America was a good nation. Whatever the fluoridation issue was does not sound like what I’m bringing up.

    Americans are good people. The government…maybe not so much.

    • #153
  4. Saint Augustine Member
    Saint Augustine
    @SaintAugustine

    Steven Seward (View Comment):

    Manny (View Comment):

    When I was growing up, it was the left that built conspiracy theories about the CIA and covert operations in foreign countries that slandered the US. I’m not saying that the CIA was pure, but the radicals went with slander first without any facts. To my dismay, it’s now conservatives who do the same thing. These same people who claimed the Iraq invasion was built on a lie are the same people who claim the CIA started the Ukraine/Russian war.

    Agree! I’ve been on Ricochet for about seven years now, and I’ve seen a slow descending into speculation, hearsay, and conspiracy theories. It is very disheartening.

    I dunno.

    Turns out the Deep State is real, the Deep State is left, the left is bad and getting worse, corporate-government revolving doors are real, corporate interests both fund federal agencies and influence policies, Fauci funded dangerous research and lied about it, Time runs a story on shady networks of election-shifters, even the courts confirm enough votes illegally cast or counted to flip Wisconsin and Pennsylvania in 2020, a federal agency recommends we get rid of all voting machines with online capabilities because they really do exist and are not secure, the FBI has an established history of illegally spying on Americans and using their dirt to get what J. E. Hoover wanted, a prosecutor was informed that Epstein “belongs to intelligence,” he didn’t kill himself, few if any have gone to prison for visiting his Pedo Island, we still don’t know who all was there, the FBI had more informants in the Proud Boys than there were Proud Boys charged with sedition, no one was charged for violent insurrection on J6, amazingly few violent BLM insurrectionists were charged with anything, the Powers That Be lied about J6, the Great Reset is a real plan, the FBI used Twitter to censor the Hunter laptop story and more, Russia Collusion was an actual hoax, and MRNA vaxxes do cause myocarditis.

    And those are just some of the publically available facts.

    It’s almost enough to make one think a few of the corruptocrats running the world and screwing everything up and lying about it might also be conspiring with each other–just a bit, from time to time.

    • #154
  5. Manny Coolidge
    Manny
    @Manny

    Zafar (View Comment):

    Manny (View Comment):

    Joseph Stanko (View Comment):

    Manny (View Comment):

    When I was growing up, it was the left that built conspiracy theories about the CIA and covert operations in foreign countries that slandered the US. I’m not saying that the CIA was pure, but the radicals went with slander first without any facts. To my dismay, it’s now conservatives who do the same thing. These same people who claimed the Iraq invasion was built on a lie are the same people who claim the CIA started the Ukraine/Russian war.

    That’s nothing new, back in the 60’s we had conservatives claiming fluoridation was a Commie plot. People who obsess over politics seem prone to believing conspiracy theories, on both ends of the spectrum.

    What I’m pointing out is the anti Americanism. It’s the blame America first mentality.

    Different from the praise America first mentality?

    Conservatives had a presumption that fundamentally America was a good nation. Whatever the fluoridation issue was does not sound like what I’m bringing up.

    Americans are good people. The government…maybe not so much.

    I am a proud praise America first person. I will not slander my country without evidence. 

    • #155
  6. Instugator Thatcher
    Instugator
    @Instugator

    Steven Seward (View Comment):
    You don’t seem to understand.  You keep talking about some video of a military talk about the insurgency in Iraq, but the actual link you gave us to see this talk in comment #71 turns out to be some postage stamp-sized stick figure with  writing on it that says “I own a construction company.”

    Thank you, now I understand.

    Here is the briefing.

    https://www.blackfive.net/main/files/how_to_win_in_anbar.pdf

    • #156
  7. DrewInWisconsin, Oaf Member
    DrewInWisconsin, Oaf
    @DrewInWisconsin

    Manny (View Comment):

    Zafar (View Comment):

    Americans are good people. The government…maybe not so much.

    I am a proud praise America first person. I will not slander my country without evidence.

    But what about your government?

    And what if there was plenty of evidence for its evil?

    • #157
  8. Steven Seward Member
    Steven Seward
    @StevenSeward

    Instugator (View Comment):

    Steven Seward (View Comment):
    You don’t seem to understand. You keep talking about some video of a military talk about the insurgency in Iraq, but the actual link you gave us to see this talk in comment #71 turns out to be some postage stamp-sized stick figure with writing on it that says “I own a construction company.”

    Thank you, now I understand.

    Here is the briefing.

    https://www.blackfive.net/main/files/how_to_win_in_anbar.pdf

    Thanks!

    • #158
  9. Steven Seward Member
    Steven Seward
    @StevenSeward

    Steven Seward (View Comment):

    Instugator (View Comment):

    Steven Seward (View Comment):
    You don’t seem to understand. You keep talking about some video of a military talk about the insurgency in Iraq, but the actual link you gave us to see this talk in comment #71 turns out to be some postage stamp-sized stick figure with writing on it that says “I own a construction company.”

    Thank you, now I understand.

    Here is the briefing.

    https://www.blackfive.net/main/files/how_to_win_in_anbar.pdf

    Thanks!

    Alright.  I read the PDF file that you linked to.  After all this trouble, you’ve got to be kidding.  Is this a joke?  This is the military briefing?  In the spirit of Mark Twain, I invite other commenters to click on the link.

    • #159
  10. Steven Seward Member
    Steven Seward
    @StevenSeward

    Saint Augustine (View Comment):

    Steven Seward (View Comment):

    Manny (View Comment):

    When I was growing up, it was the left that built conspiracy theories about the CIA and covert operations in foreign countries that slandered the US. I’m not saying that the CIA was pure, but the radicals went with slander first without any facts. To my dismay, it’s now conservatives who do the same thing. These same people who claimed the Iraq invasion was built on a lie are the same people who claim the CIA started the Ukraine/Russian war.

    Agree! I’ve been on Ricochet for about seven years now, and I’ve seen a slow descending into speculation, hearsay, and conspiracy theories. It is very disheartening.

    I dunno.

    Turns out the Deep State is real, the Deep State is left, the left is bad and getting worse, corporate-government revolving doors are real, corporate interests both fund federal agencies and influence policies, Fauci funded dangerous research and lied about it, Time runs a story on shady networks of election-shifters, even the courts confirm enough votes illegally cast or counted to flip Wisconsin and Pennsylvania in 2020, a federal agency recommends we get rid of all voting machines with online capabilities because they really do exist and are not secure, the FBI has an established history of illegally spying on Americans and using their dirt to get what J. E. Hoover wanted, a prosecutor was informed that Epstein “belongs to intelligence,” he didn’t kill himself, few if any have gone to prison for visiting his Pedo Island, we still don’t know who all was there, the FBI had more informants in the Proud Boys than there were Proud Boys charged with sedition, no one was charged for violent insurrection on J6, amazingly few violent BLM insurrectionists were charged with anything, the Powers That Be lied about J6, the Great Reset is a real plan, the FBI used Twitter to censor the Hunter laptop story and more, Russia Collusion was an actual hoax, and MRNA vaxxes do cause myocarditis.

    And those are just some of the publically available facts.

    The things you listed don’t sound like speculation, hearsay, or conspiracy theories to me.  They all sound like basic facts, though I’m not familiar with the Epstein thing enough to comment.  The stuff I see on Ricochet are things like “tens of thousands of  people dying from the Covid vaccines (right in this very thread), or Bill Gates is planning on killing off so many people in the World (not that I am a fan of Gates).  There’s been anti-law enforcement talk.  There was a disturbing post not too long ago where several prominent members agreed that nobody should ever talk to police, under any circumstances, even if it was to help catch the burglars of your neighbor’s house.  One member regularly posts that we should tear down all of society and many say we should never vote Republican.

    • #160
  11. Saint Augustine Member
    Saint Augustine
    @SaintAugustine

    Steven Seward (View Comment):

    Saint Augustine (View Comment):

    Steven Seward (View Comment):

    Manny (View Comment):

    When I was growing up, it was the left that built conspiracy theories about the CIA and covert operations in foreign countries that slandered the US. I’m not saying that the CIA was pure, but the radicals went with slander first without any facts. To my dismay, it’s now conservatives who do the same thing. These same people who claimed the Iraq invasion was built on a lie are the same people who claim the CIA started the Ukraine/Russian war.

    Agree! I’ve been on Ricochet for about seven years now, and I’ve seen a slow descending into speculation, hearsay, and conspiracy theories. It is very disheartening.

    I dunno.

    Turns out the Deep State is real, the Deep State is left, the left is bad and getting worse, corporate-government revolving doors are real, corporate interests both fund federal agencies and influence policies, Fauci funded dangerous research and lied about it, Time runs a story on shady networks of election-shifters, even the courts confirm enough votes illegally cast or counted to flip Wisconsin and Pennsylvania in 2020, a federal agency recommends we get rid of all voting machines with online capabilities because they really do exist and are not secure, the FBI has an established history of illegally spying on Americans and using their dirt to get what J. E. Hoover wanted, a prosecutor was informed that Epstein “belongs to intelligence,” he didn’t kill himself, few if any have gone to prison for visiting his Pedo Island, we still don’t know who all was there, the FBI had more informants in the Proud Boys than there were Proud Boys charged with sedition, no one was charged for violent insurrection on J6, amazingly few violent BLM insurrectionists were charged with anything, the Powers That Be lied about J6, the Great Reset is a real plan, the FBI used Twitter to censor the Hunter laptop story and more, Russia Collusion was an actual hoax, and MRNA vaxxes do cause myocarditis.

    And those are just some of the publically available facts.

    The things you listed don’t sound like speculation, hearsay, or conspiracy theories to me. They all sound like basic facts, though I’m not familiar with the Epstein thing enough to comment. The stuff I see on Ricochet are things like “tens of thousands of people dying from the Covid vaccines (right in this very thread), or Bill Gates is planning on killing off so many people in the World (not that I am a fan of Gates). There’s been anti-law enforcement talk. There was a disturbing post not too long ago where several prominent members agreed that nobody should ever talk to police, under any circumstances, even if it was to help catch the burglars of your neighbor’s house. One member regularly posts that we should tear down all of society and many say we should never vote Republican.

    I’m not sure I understand. Is your point that a little speculation, hearsay, and theorizing about conspiracies is fine, but some of us are overdoing it lately?

    • #161
  12. Instugator Thatcher
    Instugator
    @Instugator

    Steven Seward (View Comment):
    Alright.  I read the PDF file that you linked to.  After all this trouble, you’ve got to be kidding.  Is this a joke?  This is the military briefing?

    Not a joke.

    Real briefing.

    Taught for years at US Army war college.

    Your search terms are “how to win in Anbar”, Capt Travis Patriquin.

    • #162
  13. Zafar Member
    Zafar
    @Zafar

    Manny (View Comment):

    Zafar (View Comment):

    Manny (View Comment):

    Joseph Stanko (View Comment):

    Manny (View Comment):

    When I was growing up, it was the left that built conspiracy theories about the CIA and covert operations in foreign countries that slandered the US. I’m not saying that the CIA was pure, but the radicals went with slander first without any facts. To my dismay, it’s now conservatives who do the same thing. These same people who claimed the Iraq invasion was built on a lie are the same people who claim the CIA started the Ukraine/Russian war.

    That’s nothing new, back in the 60’s we had conservatives claiming fluoridation was a Commie plot. People who obsess over politics seem prone to believing conspiracy theories, on both ends of the spectrum.

    What I’m pointing out is the anti Americanism. It’s the blame America first mentality.

    Different from the praise America first mentality?

    Conservatives had a presumption that fundamentally America was a good nation. Whatever the fluoridation issue was does not sound like what I’m bringing up.

    Americans are good people. The government…maybe not so much.

    I am a proud praise America first person. I will not slander my country without evidence.

    That’s basically praising yourself.

    To be real praise needs to be from someone else.

    • #163
  14. Zafar Member
    Zafar
    @Zafar

    Instugator (View Comment):

    Steven Seward (View Comment):
    Alright. I read the PDF file that you linked to. After all this trouble, you’ve got to be kidding. Is this a joke? This is the military briefing?

    Not a joke.

    Real briefing.

    Taught for years at US Army war college.

    Your search terms are “how to win in Anbar”, Capt Travis Patriquin.

    How did students in the war college respond to it?

    • #164
  15. Instugator Thatcher
    Instugator
    @Instugator

    Zafar (View Comment):

    Instugator (View Comment):

    Steven Seward (View Comment):
    Alright. I read the PDF file that you linked to. After all this trouble, you’ve got to be kidding. Is this a joke? This is the military briefing?

    Not a joke.

    Real briefing.

    Taught for years at US Army war college.

    Your search terms are “how to win in Anbar”, Capt Travis Patriquin.

    How did students in the war college respond to it?

    I never surveyed them, so I don’t know.

     

    • #165
  16. DaveSchmidt Coolidge
    DaveSchmidt
    @DaveSchmidt

    Zafar (View Comment):

    Manny (View Comment):

    [SNIP} 

    I am a proud praise America first person. I will not slander my country without evidence.

    That’s basically praising yourself.

    To be real praise needs to be from someone else.

    I admire Manny’s patriotism and love of country.  

    • #166
  17. Hang On Member
    Hang On
    @HangOn

    DaveSchmidt (View Comment):

    Zafar (View Comment):

    Manny (View Comment):

    [SNIP}

    I am a proud praise America first person. I will not slander my country without evidence.

    That’s basically praising yourself.

    To be real praise needs to be from someone else.

    I admire Manny’s patriotism and love of country.

    He makes a fundamental error in not distinguishing between the country and the excrement that is running it into the ground.

    • #167
  18. Instugator Thatcher
    Instugator
    @Instugator

    Zafar (View Comment):

    That’s basically praising yourself.

    To be real praise needs to be from someone else.

    Tell it to the French

    • #168
  19. DrewInWisconsin, Oaf Member
    DrewInWisconsin, Oaf
    @DrewInWisconsin

    Hang On (View Comment):

    DaveSchmidt (View Comment):

    Zafar (View Comment):

    Manny (View Comment):

    [SNIP}

    I am a proud praise America first person. I will not slander my country without evidence.

    That’s basically praising yourself.

    To be real praise needs to be from someone else.

    I admire Manny’s patriotism and love of country.

    He makes a fundamental error in not distinguishing between the country and the excrement that is running it into the ground.

    Right. I love America and its people. I think our current government is a tool of Satan.

    • #169
  20. Instugator Thatcher
    Instugator
    @Instugator

    DrewInWisconsin, Oaf (View Comment):
    Right. I love America and its people. I think our current government is a tool of Satan.

    and is working unceasingly to removes the rights and freedoms that make America unique.

    Case in point, the Department of (in)Justice along with the Federal Bureau of Instigation (no relation)

    • #170
  21. DrewInWisconsin, Oaf Member
    DrewInWisconsin, Oaf
    @DrewInWisconsin

    How much of this stuff continues under the umbrella of a 20 year old AUMF?

    • #171
  22. Steven Seward Member
    Steven Seward
    @StevenSeward

    Saint Augustine (View Comment):

    Steven Seward (View Comment):

    Saint Augustine (View Comment):

    Steven Seward (View Comment):

     

    Agree! I’ve been on Ricochet for about seven years now, and I’ve seen a slow descending into speculation, hearsay, and conspiracy theories. It is very disheartening.

    I dunno.

    Turns out the Deep State is real, the Deep State is left, the left is bad and getting worse, corporate-government revolving doors are real, corporate interests both fund federal agencies and influence policies, Fauci funded dangerous research and lied about it, Time runs a story on shady networks of election-shifters, even the courts confirm enough votes illegally cast or counted to flip Wisconsin and Pennsylvania in 2020, a federal agency recommends we get rid of all voting machines with online capabilities because they really do exist and are not secure, the FBI has an established history of illegally spying on Americans and using their dirt to get what J. E. Hoover wanted, a prosecutor was informed that Epstein “belongs to intelligence,” he didn’t kill himself, few if any have gone to prison for visiting his Pedo Island, we still don’t know who all was there, the FBI had more informants in the Proud Boys than there were Proud Boys charged with sedition, no one was charged for violent insurrection on J6, amazingly few violent BLM insurrectionists were charged with anything, the Powers That Be lied about J6, the Great Reset is a real plan, the FBI used Twitter to censor the Hunter laptop story and more, Russia Collusion was an actual hoax, and MRNA vaxxes do cause myocarditis.

    And those are just some of the publically available facts.

    The things you listed don’t sound like speculation, hearsay, or conspiracy theories to me. They all sound like basic facts, though I’m not familiar with the Epstein thing enough to comment. The stuff I see on Ricochet are things like “tens of thousands of people dying from the Covid vaccines (right in this very thread), or Bill Gates is planning on killing off so many people in the World (not that I am a fan of Gates). There’s been anti-law enforcement talk. There was a disturbing post not too long ago where several prominent members agreed that nobody should ever talk to police, under any circumstances, even if it was to help catch the burglars of your neighbor’s house. One member regularly posts that we should tear down all of society and many say we should never vote Republican.

    I’m not sure I understand. Is your point that a little speculation, hearsay, and theorizing about conspiracies is fine, but some of us are overdoing it lately?

    I guess you could put it that way.  There is honest speculation and there is Twilight Zone conjecture.

    • #172
  23. Zafar Member
    Zafar
    @Zafar

    DrewInWisconsin, Oaf (View Comment):

    Hang On (View Comment):

    DaveSchmidt (View Comment):

    Zafar (View Comment):

    Manny (View Comment):

    [SNIP}

    I am a proud praise America first person. I will not slander my country without evidence.

    That’s basically praising yourself.

    To be real praise needs to be from someone else.

    I admire Manny’s patriotism and love of country.

    He makes a fundamental error in not distinguishing between the country and the excrement that is running it into the ground.

    Right. I love America and its people. I think our current government is a tool of Satan.

    • #173
  24. kedavis Coolidge
    kedavis
    @kedavis

    Zafar (View Comment):

    DrewInWisconsin, Oaf (View Comment):

    Hang On (View Comment):

    DaveSchmidt (View Comment):

    Zafar (View Comment):

    Manny (View Comment):

    [SNIP}

    I am a proud praise America first person. I will not slander my country without evidence.

    That’s basically praising yourself.

    To be real praise needs to be from someone else.

    I admire Manny’s patriotism and love of country.

    He makes a fundamental error in not distinguishing between the country and the excrement that is running it into the ground.

    Right. I love America and its people. I think our current government is a tool of Satan.

     

    I wonder how many people ever saw the movie “Poor Devil,” starring Sammy Davis Jr, Jack Klugman, and Christopher Lee?

     

    • #174
  25. Manny Coolidge
    Manny
    @Manny

    DrewInWisconsin, Oaf (View Comment):

    Manny (View Comment):

    Zafar (View Comment):

    Americans are good people. The government…maybe not so much.

    I am a proud praise America first person. I will not slander my country without evidence.

    But what about your government?

    And what if there was plenty of evidence for its evil?

    You ought to consider moving if you feel that way. 

    • #175
  26. Manny Coolidge
    Manny
    @Manny

    Hang On (View Comment):

    DaveSchmidt (View Comment):

    Zafar (View Comment):

    Manny (View Comment):

    [SNIP}

    I am a proud praise America first person. I will not slander my country without evidence.

    That’s basically praising yourself.

    To be real praise needs to be from someone else.

    I admire Manny’s patriotism and love of country.

    He makes a fundamental error in not distinguishing between the country and the excrement that is running it into the ground.

    Bull crap. Liberals do that ever national convention. The praise the people while slander the country. The govt is the people. What do you think they are, robots running the show?  

    • #176
  27. Manny Coolidge
    Manny
    @Manny

    Steven Seward (View Comment):

    Manny (View Comment):

    When I was growing up, it was the left that built conspiracy theories about the CIA and covert operations in foreign countries that slandered the US. I’m not saying that the CIA was pure, but the radicals went with slander first without any facts. To my dismay, it’s now conservatives who do the same thing. These same people who claimed the Iraq invasion was built on a lie are the same people who claim the CIA started the Ukraine/Russian war.

    Agree! I’ve been on Ricochet for about seven years now, and I’ve seen a slow descending into speculation, hearsay, and conspiracy theories. It is very disheartening.

    I get disheartened with it too. I don’t know if it’s the nature of the internet that has created suspicion and conspiracy theories but things have changed. 

    • #177
  28. DonG (CAGW is a Scam) Coolidge
    DonG (CAGW is a Scam)
    @DonG

    Steven Seward (View Comment):

    Manny (View Comment):

    When I was growing up, it was the left that built conspiracy theories about the CIA and covert operations in foreign countries that slandered the US. I’m not saying that the CIA was pure, but the radicals went with slander first without any facts. To my dismay, it’s now conservatives who do the same thing. These same people who claimed the Iraq invasion was built on a lie are the same people who claim the CIA started the Ukraine/Russian war.

    Agree! I’ve been on Ricochet for about seven years now, and I’ve seen a slow descending into speculation, hearsay, and conspiracy theories. It is very disheartening.

    You are talking about me.   Yes, the Iraq war was sold based on the lie of nuclear weapons.   As for who started the Ukraine/Russia war (that probably really started in 1920)  you have to look at the Maidan coup, which ousted a Russia-friendly president.   Is it a “conspiracy theory” that the president was ousted?   The question is then did any outside country help foment the revolution.  This article says CIA sponsored NED spent $20 million supporting protests.   Is that a “conspiracy theory”?    It might be your opinion that the coup was not the start of the current hostilities.  Or, maybe it is your opinion that the NED efforts were not significant.  But it is unfair to dismiss the opinions of others as “conspiracy theories”.  

    • #178
  29. Zafar Member
    Zafar
    @Zafar

    Manny (View Comment):

    Hang On (View Comment):

    DaveSchmidt (View Comment):

    Zafar (View Comment):

    Manny (View Comment):

    [SNIP}

    I am a proud praise America first person. I will not slander my country without evidence.

    That’s basically praising yourself.

    To be real praise needs to be from someone else.

    I admire Manny’s patriotism and love of country.

    He makes a fundamental error in not distinguishing between the country and the excrement that is running it into the ground.

    Bull crap. Liberals do that ever national convention. The praise the people while slander the country. The govt is the people. What do you think they are, robots running the show?

    Do you believe that the govt acts in what it perceives to be ordinary people’s best interests?  I really don’t – about most governments.

    • #179
  30. Steven Seward Member
    Steven Seward
    @StevenSeward

    DonG (CAGW is a Scam) (View Comment):

    Steven Seward (View Comment):

    Manny (View Comment):

    When I was growing up, it was the left that built conspiracy theories about the CIA and covert operations in foreign countries that slandered the US. I’m not saying that the CIA was pure, but the radicals went with slander first without any facts. To my dismay, it’s now conservatives who do the same thing. These same people who claimed the Iraq invasion was built on a lie are the same people who claim the CIA started the Ukraine/Russian war.

    Agree! I’ve been on Ricochet for about seven years now, and I’ve seen a slow descending into speculation, hearsay, and conspiracy theories. It is very disheartening.

    You are talking about me. Yes, the Iraq war was sold based on the lie of nuclear weapons. As for who started the Ukraine/Russia war (that probably really started in 1920) you have to look at the Maidan coup, which ousted a Russia-friendly president. Is it a “conspiracy theory” that the president was ousted? The question is then did any outside country help foment the revolution. This article says CIA sponsored NED spent $20 million supporting protests. Is that a “conspiracy theory”? It might be your opinion that the coup was not the start of the current hostilities. Or, maybe it is your opinion that the NED efforts were not significant. But it is unfair to dismiss the opinions of others as “conspiracy theories”.

    That is not the most far-flung thing I’ve seen on Ricochet, but it does reflect a trend of people attributing world events to unseen forces lurking in the American Government as opposed to more obvious factors.  For instance – Ukraine and Russia have had an adversarial relationship for over a thousand years.  Any meddling by  the CIA is not going to fundamentally change the course of two major powers, Ukraine and Russia.  If it were that easy to control events abroad,  why can’t the CIA just magically get rid of the Iranian leadership, or keep China from threatening Taiwan?  Or keep Russia from invading its neighbor in the first place?  Hell, we can’t even get friendly countries to vote with us at the U.N!

    It is very exciting to think that there are secret cabals that are influencing world events, but usually the answers come in more mundane circumstances.  It is human nature to want to gravitate toward the former.  Perhaps the populace of Ukraine didn’t like its own government when they overthrew it in 2014.  I find it hard to believe that the CIA overthrew it against the people’s will.  The CIA has been unable to overthrow Cuba despite 60 years of trying, and that is with the Cuban populace on our side!

    • #180
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