Mourning or Manipulation at Michigan State University?

 

No one would say that the shootings at MSU were anything less than a tragedy and nightmare. Two students died on February 13; six other students were wounded and five of them suffered critical gunshot wounds. Today the students were invited back to classes, but the way that return was acknowledged and promoted is a sad commentary on our view of the sanctity of life and the promotion of politics over the importance of mourning and honoring the dead.

The two primary abasements following this calamity occurred in two ways: first, students were told that they could attend classes virtually; second, some students were planning to attend a protest for gun control legislation at the state Capitol instead of attending classes. In the first case, the students who went to class virtually were being coddled and were dishonoring the memory and conditions of those who were direct victims. Instead of understanding that their own healing would begin in so many ways by appearing on campus, in spite of their fear and upset, they cowered at home rather than dealing directly with their grief. And they also lost the opportunity to grieve with other students, offering and receiving comfort through their actions. In the second case, going to a gun protest is a disgusting way to honor those people who were victims, making their pain and loss into a political prop.

Not everyone took the self-centered and narcissistic way out:

‘Coming back together is something that will help us,’ said Thomas Jeitschko, executive vice president for academic affairs, adding that faculty will have extensive flexibility in how they run their courses.

‘We know that everybody heals at their own pace and in their own manner. Getting it exactly right will not be possible,’ Jeitschko said at a news conference Sunday. ‘Coming back into spaces that are familiar, interacting with people who are familiar, is helpful in the process of healing and grieving.’

His words encouraged students to face their fears and move beyond their own pain by helping others.

But one professor couldn’t get past his own self-serving political agenda, after telling his experience during the shooting:

The assistant professor said that he is sharing his story in hopes of bringing about gun reform.

‘If the lawmakers and the senators saw what I saw, instead of hearing in the news one more statistic. If they had seen those girls and the pools of blood that I saw, the horror we lived, they would be shamed into action,’ Díaz-Muñoz said.

One student demonstrated a wisdom that reflects on his own mature life view and the need to take responsibility for his experience and his actions:

Brogan Kelley, a freshman at Michigan State, left East Lansing after last week’s shooting to return home to his family in west Michigan. But he drove back on Sunday so that he could attend class in person. He said that he felt like it was important ‘to go back about my life.’

‘For me, not going to class felt like I would have been letting the shooter win. I didn’t want this one tragedy to define the place I call home and the university that’s giving me my education,’ said Kelley said.

*     *     *     *

Once again, we see university students being coddled in the face of difficult life circumstances. Of course, they were afraid to go back to the campus. Of course, they may not ever get over this horrible incident; it will probably be melded into their memories. But wouldn’t they be wiser, stronger, and more appreciative of their own lives and the sanctity of the life of others by honoring them through their presence on campus and comforting others who are suffering? Wouldn’t they learn and grow by facing their fears, honoring those who were victims, and saving political protests for another day?

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  1. Max Knots Member
    Max Knots
    @MaxKnots

    These kids and the so-called adults in charge need to become adults and deal with the inevitable mourning required. Life is hard. Sometimes bad things happen to good people. Get over it. Go out and do good for someone. Carrying a paper sign and chanting political slogans is cheaply-purchased virtue. Worthless gesturing. It’s howling at the moon because you’ve misdiagnosed the root cause – which is flawed humanity, not guns. Everyone needs to grow up; starting with the college staff and professors. A strong president would be helpful. (I know – I’m preaching to the choir here.)  The whole place is a gun-free zone. Protestors apparently believe that if they just got a law banning all guns in the State, all gun deaths would disappear. Where do they get that idea? Anyone who has lived into adulthood knows better. Maybe believing otherwise is a sign that you’re haven’t quite reached intellctual maturity yet?

    • #1
  2. Susan Quinn Contributor
    Susan Quinn
    @SusanQuinn

    Max Knots (View Comment):

    These kids and the so-called adults in charge need to become adults and deal with the inevitable mourning required. Life is hard. Sometimes bad things happen to good people. Get over it. Go out and do good for someone. Carrying a paper sign and chanting political slogans is cheaply-purchased virtue. Worthless gesturing. It’s howling at the moon because you’ve misdiagnosed the root cause – which is flawed humanity, not guns. Everyone needs to grow up; starting with the college staff and professors. A strong president would be helpful. (I know – I’m preaching to the choir here.) The whole place is a gun-free zone. Protestors apparently believe that if they just got a law banning all guns in the State, all gun deaths would disappear. Where do they get that idea? Anyone who has lived into adulthood knows better. Maybe believing otherwise is a sign that you’re haven’t quite reached intellctual maturity yet?

    Good to see you, Max! And you made the point better than I did! I just feel like we’re crippling these kids for life. I’m not unsympathetic to their pain, but they have to learn to move on. Thanks!

    Edit: there was a time when we would have considered them adults, once they entered college, not kids. Sad.

    • #2
  3. Rodin Member
    Rodin
    @Rodin

    Woody Hayes, the irascible football coach of Ohio State back in the day, hated the forward pass. He said, “Whenever you throw the ball three things can happen, and two are bad.” Well, for progressives whenever something bad happens there is the right lesson to be learned or (at least) two bad read reactions — and they always take the bad reaction.

    • #3
  4. Susan Quinn Contributor
    Susan Quinn
    @SusanQuinn

    Rodin (View Comment):

    Woody Hayes, the irascible football coach of Ohio State back in the day, hated the forward pass. He said, “Whenever you throw the ball three things can happen, and two are bad.” Well, for progressives whenever something bad happens there is the right lesson to be learned or (at least) two bad read reactions — and they always take the bad reaction.

    Woody Hayes is still awesome! An incredible and wise man.

    • #4
  5. Headedwest Coolidge
    Headedwest
    @Headedwest

    Max Knots (View Comment):
    The whole place is a gun-free zone.

    Here is an article about that and here is an illustration from the article; the data for the graph (and much more data) comes from this article.

    • #5
  6. Susan Quinn Contributor
    Susan Quinn
    @SusanQuinn

    Headedwest (View Comment):

    Max Knots (View Comment):
    The whole place is a gun-free zone.

    Here is an article about that and here is an illustration from the article:

    Wow, that’s a powerful graph. But of course, the Left doesn’t care about truth or accuracy. Thanks, Headedwest

    • #6
  7. Zafar Member
    Zafar
    @Zafar

    Susan Quinn: In the second case, going to a gun protest is a disgusting way to honor those people who were victims, making their pain and loss into a political prop.

    It’s why they’re going.  It isn’t like there’s no connection.

    I’ve got to say it sits badly with me when Pro Life Choice activists pretend that abortion isn’t killing, or try to skim over that essential aspect of abortion.

    Ditto with gun rights activists who don’t like acknowledging that this right comes at a cost in lives.

    Edited because I got it wrong the first time.

    • #7
  8. Full Size Tabby Member
    Full Size Tabby
    @FullSizeTabby

    Susan Quinn:

    But one professor couldn’t get past his own self-serving political agenda, after telling his experience during the shooting:

    The assistant professor said that he is sharing his story in hopes of bringing about gun reform.

    ‘If the lawmakers and the senators saw what I saw, instead of hearing in the news one more statistic. If they had seen those girls and the pools of blood that I saw, the horror we lived, they would be shamed into action,’ Díaz-Muñoz said.

     

    It would also be interesting to ask said assistant professor how the result might have been different had someone in one of the buildings in which the shootings happened used his or her own firearm to take out the murderer soon after the murderer began his murderous activities. 

    • #8
  9. Susan Quinn Contributor
    Susan Quinn
    @SusanQuinn

    Zafar (View Comment):
    I’ve got to say it sits badly with me when Pro Life activists pretend that abortion isn’t killing,

    When in the world have you heard this from a pro-life person? Of course it’s killing! Or do you mean Pro-Abortion activists?

    • #9
  10. Zafar Member
    Zafar
    @Zafar

    Susan Quinn (View Comment):

    Zafar (View Comment):
    I’ve got to say it sits badly with me when Pro Life activists pretend that abortion isn’t killing,

    When in the world have you heard this from a pro-life person? Of course it’s killing! Or do you mean Pro-Abortion activists?

    Pro Choice, I meant :-(

    The danger of euphemisms…

    • #10
  11. Susan Quinn Contributor
    Susan Quinn
    @SusanQuinn

    Full Size Tabby (View Comment):
    It would also be interesting to ask said assistant professor how the result might have been different had someone in one of the buildings in which the shootings happened used his or her own firearm to take out the murderer soon after the murderer began his murderous activities. 

    I wish I’d been the person interviewing him . . . or at least asked a little later on . . .

    • #11
  12. Susan Quinn Contributor
    Susan Quinn
    @SusanQuinn

    Zafar (View Comment):

    Susan Quinn (View Comment):

    Zafar (View Comment):
    I’ve got to say it sits badly with me when Pro Life activists pretend that abortion isn’t killing,

    When in the world have you heard this from a pro-life person? Of course it’s killing! Or do you mean Pro-Abortion activists?

    Pro Choice, I meant :-(

    The danger of euphemisms…

    Phew! Thanks for clearing that up, Zafar.

    • #12
  13. Locke On Member
    Locke On
    @LockeOn

    Of course they forgot to mention that the shooter had been let off on previous gun charges by a Soros-backed prosecutor. Leveraging an atrocity to abridge the rights of the innocent while letting the guilty walk. Disgusting.

    • #13
  14. Susan Quinn Contributor
    Susan Quinn
    @SusanQuinn

    Locke On (View Comment):

    Of course they forgot to mention that the shooter had been let off on previous gun charges by a Soros-backed prosecutor. Leveraging an atrocity to abridge the rights of the innocent while letting the guilty walk. Disgusting.

    I missed that. That is disgusting. Thanks, LO.

    • #14
  15. Max Knots Member
    Max Knots
    @MaxKnots

    Zafar (View Comment):

    Susan Quinn: In the second case, going to a gun protest is a disgusting way to honor those people who were victims, making their pain and loss into a political prop.

    It’s why they’re going. It isn’t like there’s no connection……

     

    Ditto with gun rights activists who don’t like acknowledging that this right comes at a cost in lives.

    Edited because I got it wrong the first time.

     

    When you say “…the cost in lives…” are you referring to those killed by someone acting in self defense? Or the innocent killed by criminals? Unless I miss something the laws against murder didn’t protect them but their own gun might have. Regarding the lives of criminals killed in commission of a crime; that’s the risk they have accepted. The bad choice they’ve made. We wish they hadn’t but they did. Would you sacrifice the life of a loved one, or risk their killing others? Or isn’t that your point? Sorry if I misunderstood.

    • #15
  16. Bunsen Coolidge
    Bunsen
    @Bunsen

    This one hit pretty close to home.  My niece is a senior at MSU and her roommate was shot at in the Student Union.  In the rush to get away, her phone was left behind.  Her parents saw her phone on Find my iPhone not moving and feared the worst.  Fortunately she was safe.

    Sparty neice is deciding to stay home until Spring Break.  She is going to be virtual and work while at home.  She has had some issues before this so I understand and support her decision.  Talked to her yesterday and she sounds good and wants to move forward but is taking advantage of the “stay at home” option to work and potentially secure a better job post graduation. 

    My daughter’s roommate (at Butler) knew several of the victims (from her hometown).  So proud of her as she skipped class to be with her friend and provide a shoulder to lean on.  

    BIL was in town this weekend after picking up Sparty and we had a nice discussion about the aftermath.  We are pissed due to the lack of action by the state’s atty on this scumbag back in 2019.  We both agreed that there are better ways in handling this than that associate child I mean professor.

     

     

    • #16
  17. Susan Quinn Contributor
    Susan Quinn
    @SusanQuinn

    Bunsen (View Comment):

    This one hit pretty close to home. My niece is a senior at MSU and her roommate was shot at in the Student Union. In the rush to get away, her phone was left behind. Her parents saw her phone on Find my iPhone not moving and feared the worst. Fortunately she was safe.

    Sparty neice is deciding to stay home until Spring Break. She is going to be virtual and work while at home. She has had some issues before this so I understand and support her decision. Talked to her yesterday and she sounds good and wants to move forward but is taking advantage of the “stay at home” option to work and potentially secure a better job post graduation.

    My daughter’s roommate (at Butler) knew several of the victims (from her hometown). So proud of her as she skipped class to be with her friend and provide a shoulder to lean on.

    BIL was in town this weekend after picking up Sparty and we had a nice discussion about the aftermath. We are pissed due to the lack of action by the state’s atty on this scumbag back in 2019. We both agreed that there are better ways in handling this than that associate child I mean professor.

     

     

    I’m so sorry to hear the many ways this incident has touched your life.

    • #17
  18. TBA Coolidge
    TBA
    @RobtGilsdorf

    [WARNING: HIGHER THAN NORMAL RISK OF HIJACKING. POST WITH CAUTION]

    I’d like to see the stay-at-home option be implemented everywhere all the time. 

    It would lead schools to overbook classes to be sure, but when people talk about ‘free education’, wouldn’t it be worth considering building a way to  get a degree two hours a day over the course of [x years] for very little money? The ability to watch some [redacted] on the internet for long periods of time is definitely a skill most people have gotten. 

    Sure some people don’t learn as well in a non-classroom environment, but a lot of them don’t learn well in classroom environments either. 

    There is something wrong with the way we shape higher education (assuming) into a four (usually more) year program that makes getting an income very difficult and nearly requiring expensive local housing. 

    Because I don’t really care for Eloi. 

    • #18
  19. Susan Quinn Contributor
    Susan Quinn
    @SusanQuinn

    TBA (View Comment):

    [WARNING: HIGHER THAN NORMAL RISK OF HIJACKING. POST WITH CAUTION]

    I’d like to see the stay-at-home option be implemented everywhere all the time.

    It would lead schools to overbook classes to be sure, but when people talk about ‘free education’, wouldn’t it be worth considering building a way to get a degree two hours a day over the course of [x years] for very little money? The ability to watch some [redacted] on the internet for long periods of time is definitely a skill most people have gotten.

    Sure some people don’t learn as well in a non-classroom environment, but a lot of them don’t learn well in classroom environments either.

    There is something wrong with the way we shape higher education (assuming) into a four (usually more) year program that makes getting an income very difficult and nearly requiring expensive local housing.

    Because I don’t really care for Eloi.

     No argument here! I think for many, college is a waste of time and money. I’d much rather that people worked for certificates to qualify them for certain work, or trade schools. They wouldn’t be sitting ducks on college campuses, either.

    • #19
  20. Zafar Member
    Zafar
    @Zafar

    Max Knots (View Comment):

    Zafar (View Comment):

    Susan Quinn: In the second case, going to a gun protest is a disgusting way to honor those people who were victims, making their pain and loss into a political prop.

    It’s why they’re going. It isn’t like there’s no connection……

     

    Ditto with gun rights activists who don’t like acknowledging that this right comes at a cost in lives.

    Edited because I got it wrong the first time.

     

    When you say “…the cost in lives…” are you referring to those killed by someone acting in self defense? Or the innocent killed by criminals? Unless I miss something the laws against murder didn’t protect them but their own gun might have. Regarding the lives of criminals killed in commission of a crime; that’s the risk they have accepted. The bad choice they’ve made. We wish they hadn’t but they did. Would you sacrifice the life of a loved one, or risk their killing others? Or isn’t that your point? Sorry if I misunderstood.

    Countries with more guns per capita have more gun related deaths per capita than countries with fewer guns per capita.  Whether it’s due to homicide or suicide or just having an accident.

    I’m not arguing against the right – not my country after all – just pointing out that it comes with a cost. Like most things. 

    • #20
  21. TBA Coolidge
    TBA
    @RobtGilsdorf

    Zafar (View Comment):

    Max Knots (View Comment):

    Zafar (View Comment):

    Susan Quinn: In the second case, going to a gun protest is a disgusting way to honor those people who were victims, making their pain and loss into a political prop.

    It’s why they’re going. It isn’t like there’s no connection……

     

    Ditto with gun rights activists who don’t like acknowledging that this right comes at a cost in lives.

    Edited because I got it wrong the first time.

     

    When you say “…the cost in lives…” are you referring to those killed by someone acting in self defense? Or the innocent killed by criminals? Unless I miss something the laws against murder didn’t protect them but their own gun might have. Regarding the lives of criminals killed in commission of a crime; that’s the risk they have accepted. The bad choice they’ve made. We wish they hadn’t but they did. Would you sacrifice the life of a loved one, or risk their killing others? Or isn’t that your point? Sorry if I misunderstood.

    Countries with more guns per capita have more gun related deaths per capita than countries with fewer guns per capita. Whether it’s due to homicide or suicide or just having an accident.

    I’m not arguing against the right – not my country after all – just pointing out that it comes with a cost. Like most things.

    It does. 

    • #21
  22. Bunsen Coolidge
    Bunsen
    @Bunsen

    Susan Quinn (View Comment):

    TBA (View Comment):

    [WARNING: HIGHER THAN NORMAL RISK OF HIJACKING. POST WITH CAUTION]

    I’d like to see the stay-at-home option be implemented everywhere all the time.

    It would lead schools to overbook classes to be sure, but when people talk about ‘free education’, wouldn’t it be worth considering building a way to get a degree two hours a day over the course of [x years] for very little money? The ability to watch some [redacted] on the internet for long periods of time is definitely a skill most people have gotten.

    Sure some people don’t learn as well in a non-classroom environment, but a lot of them don’t learn well in classroom environments either.

    There is something wrong with the way we shape higher education (assuming) into a four (usually more) year program that makes getting an income very difficult and nearly requiring expensive local housing.

    Because I don’t really care for Eloi.

    No argument here! I think for many, college is a waste of time and money. I’d much rather that people worked for certificates to qualify them for certain work, or trade schools. They wouldn’t be sitting ducks on college campuses, either.

    Agree 100%!  

    • #22
  23. Red Herring Coolidge
    Red Herring
    @EHerring

    Zafar (View Comment):

    Max Knots (View Comment):

    Zafar (View Comment):

    Susan Quinn: In the second case, going to a gun protest is a disgusting way to honor those people who were victims, making their pain and loss into a political prop.

    It’s why they’re going. It isn’t like there’s no connection……

     

    Ditto with gun rights activists who don’t like acknowledging that this right comes at a cost in lives.

    Edited because I got it wrong the first time.

     

    When you say “…the cost in lives…” are you referring to those killed by someone acting in self defense? Or the innocent killed by criminals? Unless I miss something the laws against murder didn’t protect them but their own gun might have. Regarding the lives of criminals killed in commission of a crime; that’s the risk they have accepted. The bad choice they’ve made. We wish they hadn’t but they did. Would you sacrifice the life of a loved one, or risk their killing others? Or isn’t that your point? Sorry if I misunderstood.

    Countries with more guns per capita have more gun related deaths per capita than countries with fewer guns per capita. Whether it’s due to homicide or suicide or just having an accident.

    I’m not arguing against the right – not my country after all – just pointing out that it comes with a cost. Like most things.

    Having more violent people on the street per capita is the problem. Most gun deaths happen in a few places. Your per capital comparison doesn’t work when we compare states in the US. 

    • #23
  24. DaveSchmidt Coolidge
    DaveSchmidt
    @DaveSchmidt

    Susan Quinn (View Comment):

    Headedwest (View Comment):

    Max Knots (View Comment):
    The whole place is a gun-free zone.

    Here is an article about that and here is an illustration from the article:

    Wow, that’s a powerful graph. But of course, the Left doesn’t care about truth or accuracy. Thanks, Headedwest

    I am beginning to wonder if the so-called gun-control advocates might not look at the orange slice and say “We have work to do.”

    • #24
  25. DaveSchmidt Coolidge
    DaveSchmidt
    @DaveSchmidt

    TBA (View Comment):

    [WARNING: HIGHER THAN NORMAL RISK OF HIJACKING. POST WITH CAUTION]

    I’d like to see the stay-at-home option be implemented everywhere all the time.

    It would lead schools to overbook classes to be sure, but when people talk about ‘free education’, wouldn’t it be worth considering building a way to get a degree two hours a day over the course of [x years] for very little money? The ability to watch some [redacted] on the internet for long periods of time is definitely a skill most people have gotten.

    Sure some people don’t learn as well in a non-classroom environment, but a lot of them don’t learn well in classroom environments either.

    There is something wrong with the way we shape higher education (assuming) into a four (usually more) year program that makes getting an income very difficult and nearly requiring expensive local housing.

    Because I don’t really care for Eloi.

    Start a new thread. I am interested in the issue.  But let’s keep this one on topic. 

    • #25
  26. Flicker Coolidge
    Flicker
    @Flicker

    Zafar (View Comment):

    Max Knots (View Comment):

    Zafar (View Comment):

    Susan Quinn: In the second case, going to a gun protest is a disgusting way to honor those people who were victims, making their pain and loss into a political prop.

    It’s why they’re going. It isn’t like there’s no connection……

     

    Ditto with gun rights activists who don’t like acknowledging that this right comes at a cost in lives.

    Edited because I got it wrong the first time.

     

    When you say “…the cost in lives…” are you referring to those killed by someone acting in self defense? Or the innocent killed by criminals? Unless I miss something the laws against murder didn’t protect them but their own gun might have. Regarding the lives of criminals killed in commission of a crime; that’s the risk they have accepted. The bad choice they’ve made. We wish they hadn’t but they did. Would you sacrifice the life of a loved one, or risk their killing others? Or isn’t that your point? Sorry if I misunderstood.

    Countries with more guns per capita have more gun related deaths per capita than countries with fewer guns per capita. Whether it’s due to homicide or suicide or just having an accident.

    I’m not arguing against the right – not my country after all – just pointing out that it comes with a cost. Like most things.

    Mad Max was based on a real suicide culture of racing and car-death, according to the writer.

    • #26
  27. Zafar Member
    Zafar
    @Zafar

    Red Herring (View Comment):

    Zafar (View Comment):

    Max Knots (View Comment):

    Zafar (View Comment):

    Susan Quinn: In the second case, going to a gun protest is a disgusting way to honor those people who were victims, making their pain and loss into a political prop.

    It’s why they’re going. It isn’t like there’s no connection……

     

    Ditto with gun rights activists who don’t like acknowledging that this right comes at a cost in lives.

    Edited because I got it wrong the first time.

     

    When you say “…the cost in lives…” are you referring to those killed by someone acting in self defense? Or the innocent killed by criminals? Unless I miss something the laws against murder didn’t protect them but their own gun might have. Regarding the lives of criminals killed in commission of a crime; that’s the risk they have accepted. The bad choice they’ve made. We wish they hadn’t but they did. Would you sacrifice the life of a loved one, or risk their killing others? Or isn’t that your point? Sorry if I misunderstood.

    Countries with more guns per capita have more gun related deaths per capita than countries with fewer guns per capita. Whether it’s due to homicide or suicide or just having an accident.

    I’m not arguing against the right – not my country after all – just pointing out that it comes with a cost. Like most things.

    Having more violent people on the street per capita is the problem. Most gun deaths happen in a few places. Your per capital comparison doesn’t work when we compare states in the US.

    https://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2022/02/03/what-the-data-says-about-gun-deaths-in-the-u-s/ft_22-01-26_gundeaths_3/

    • #27
  28. Zafar Member
    Zafar
    @Zafar

    Flicker (View Comment):

    Zafar (View Comment):

    Max Knots (View Comment):

    Zafar (View Comment):

    Susan Quinn: In the second case, going to a gun protest is a disgusting way to honor those people who were victims, making their pain and loss into a political prop.

    It’s why they’re going. It isn’t like there’s no connection……

     

    Ditto with gun rights activists who don’t like acknowledging that this right comes at a cost in lives.

    Edited because I got it wrong the first time.

     

    When you say “…the cost in lives…” are you referring to those killed by someone acting in self defense? Or the innocent killed by criminals? Unless I miss something the laws against murder didn’t protect them but their own gun might have. Regarding the lives of criminals killed in commission of a crime; that’s the risk they have accepted. The bad choice they’ve made. We wish they hadn’t but they did. Would you sacrifice the life of a loved one, or risk their killing others? Or isn’t that your point? Sorry if I misunderstood.

    Countries with more guns per capita have more gun related deaths per capita than countries with fewer guns per capita. Whether it’s due to homicide or suicide or just having an accident.

    I’m not arguing against the right – not my country after all – just pointing out that it comes with a cost. Like most things.

    Mad Max was based on a real suicide culture of racing and car-death, according to the writer.

    That whole film is really a cry for more public transport :-)

    • #28
  29. Flicker Coolidge
    Flicker
    @Flicker

    Zafar (View Comment):

    Flicker (View Comment):

    Zafar (View Comment):

    Max Knots (View Comment):

    Zafar (View Comment):

    Susan Quinn: In the second case, going to a gun protest is a disgusting way to honor those people who were victims, making their pain and loss into a political prop.

    It’s why they’re going. It isn’t like there’s no connection……

     

    Ditto with gun rights activists who don’t like acknowledging that this right comes at a cost in lives.

    Edited because I got it wrong the first time.

     

    When you say “…the cost in lives…” are you referring to those killed by someone acting in self defense? Or the innocent killed by criminals? Unless I miss something the laws against murder didn’t protect them but their own gun might have. Regarding the lives of criminals killed in commission of a crime; that’s the risk they have accepted. The bad choice they’ve made. We wish they hadn’t but they did. Would you sacrifice the life of a loved one, or risk their killing others? Or isn’t that your point? Sorry if I misunderstood.

    Countries with more guns per capita have more gun related deaths per capita than countries with fewer guns per capita. Whether it’s due to homicide or suicide or just having an accident.

    I’m not arguing against the right – not my country after all – just pointing out that it comes with a cost. Like most things.

    Mad Max was based on a real suicide culture of racing and car-death, according to the writer.

    That whole film is really a cry for more public transport :-)

    But the few Aussies I’ve talked to don’t care about guns, but really like their big-engined fast cars and long stretches of open highway.  In years before riding a horse well and fast was a pleasure in its own right.

    But the point I was making is that where guns are rare, machete fights are prevalent.

    • #29
  30. Zafar Member
    Zafar
    @Zafar

    Flicker (View Comment):

    Zafar (View Comment):

    Flicker (View Comment):

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    Susan Quinn: In the second case, going to a gun protest is a disgusting way to honor those people who were victims, making their pain and loss into a political prop.

    It’s why they’re going. It isn’t like there’s no connection……

     

    Ditto with gun rights activists who don’t like acknowledging that this right comes at a cost in lives.

    Edited because I got it wrong the first time.

     

    When you say “…the cost in lives…” are you referring to those killed by someone acting in self defense? Or the innocent killed by criminals? Unless I miss something the laws against murder didn’t protect them but their own gun might have. Regarding the lives of criminals killed in commission of a crime; that’s the risk they have accepted. The bad choice they’ve made. We wish they hadn’t but they did. Would you sacrifice the life of a loved one, or risk their killing others? Or isn’t that your point? Sorry if I misunderstood.

    Countries with more guns per capita have more gun related deaths per capita than countries with fewer guns per capita. Whether it’s due to homicide or suicide or just having an accident.

    I’m not arguing against the right – not my country after all – just pointing out that it comes with a cost. Like most things.

    Mad Max was based on a real suicide culture of racing and car-death, according to the writer.

    That whole film is really a cry for more public transport :-)

    But the few Aussies I’ve talked to don’t care about guns, but really like their big-engined fast cars and long stretches of open highway. In years before riding a horse well and fast was a pleasure in its own right.

    But the point I was making is that where guns are rare, machete fights are prevalent.

    They are rare in Oz, to be honest, though perhaps a bit of of biffo is more common? I really don’t know. And because of technology, they’re less fatal.

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