Voluntary Involuntary Disarmament

 

For those (like me) who have concerns about what American interest is served by our financial and military material support for Ukraine, there is a theory that the American arms establishment is pushing the conflict and looking to goose their bottom lines by selling the US government arms to replace those sent to Ukraine. But what if that isn’t so?

There is a Powerline post out today that raises questions about the ability of arms providers to rearm America. Quoting from the Wall Street Journal:

[T]he largest ground war in Europe since World War II isn’t translating into boom times for U.S. defense contractors. Hobbled by supply chain disruptions, a tight labor market and a Pentagon procurement process that can take years, arms makers have been struggling to respond to the soaring demand. . .

When the Pentagon ordered new Stinger antiaircraft missiles—widely used in Ukraine—in August, it was the first U.S. order from Raytheon for the weapons in 18 years. By December, Ukraine had burned through 13 years of production, said Greg Hayes, chief executive of Raytheon. Five years worth of Javelin missiles had also been used in the conflict.

Raytheon was still making some Stingers for an overseas customer before Russia’s invasion of Ukraine, but found some suppliers had gone out of business and had to redesign parts to boost production.

Couple that with the chart from Center for Strategic & International Studies and you begin to wonder whether arms merchants really are behind Biden’s actions or whether they are untethered from reality:

When they say “follow the money,” whose money should you be following? If the cupboard is bare and it will be a while before you can fill it up again, how are the arms merchants profiting in the near term from sales that can’t be completed for months/years? If America is to avoid a nuclear exchange with Russia, the theory is it is because the Russians know that we could defeat them even with just conventional weaponry. But what if the Ukrainians have already thrown our conventional arms at the Russians? What is the deterrent then?

I once had a boss that said, “Don’t let your mouth promise something my *ss can’t deliver.” If arms producers are pushing this conflict, has the sales department been talking to manufacturing? Russians have spreadsheets, too. They can calculate the tipping point where either we, or the Ukrainians, don’t have enough armaments to finish the job.

And don’t take your eyes off the CCP.

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  1. Raxxalan Member
    Raxxalan
    @Raxxalan

    Steve C. (View Comment):

    Raxxalan (View Comment):

    BDB (View Comment):

    Raxxalan (View Comment):

    DrewInWisconsin, Oik (View Comment):

    Misthiocracy has never (View Comment):

    Raxxalan (View Comment):
    I think Nohaaj’s point is that we aren’t giving the Ukrainians the same things we would be using to actually defend the US or our NATO allies if the Russians attacked Us/ NATO.

    Well, obviously. The whole point of the exercise is to prevent a hot war between the US/NATO!

    I doubt we’ll go to war against NATO. But maybe we should.

    Apparently I didn’t make my point very well, but I can’t read where I suggested a war between the US and NATO.

    No doubt Claire predicted one if we elected Trump.

    I wish our German friends had listened to Trump. It is sad how many people were broken by Trump derangement syndrome.

    The Germans cut military spending to pay for unification. Then decided Poland makes a nice buffer and Russia is an opportunity, not a threat.

    But Trump still warned them and they laughed at him if I recall.  

    • #31
  2. Steve C. Member
    Steve C.
    @user_531302

    Misthiocracy has never (View Comment):

    One might note that Stinger missiles have never actually been used by US forces in sizable quantities. They’ve really only ever really been used by foreign forces, whether they be governments that bought them or “freedom fighters” that received them from the US government.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/FIM-92_Stinger#Service

    I hope you understand US forces not using Stingers in combat is a good thing.

    • #32
  3. Steve C. Member
    Steve C.
    @user_531302

    Raxxalan (View Comment):

    Steve C. (View Comment):

    Raxxalan (View Comment):

    BDB (View Comment):

    Raxxalan (View Comment):

    DrewInWisconsin, Oik (View Comment):

    Misthiocracy has never (View Comment):

    Raxxalan (View Comment):
    I think Nohaaj’s point is that we aren’t giving the Ukrainians the same things we would be using to actually defend the US or our NATO allies if the Russians attacked Us/ NATO.

    Well, obviously. The whole point of the exercise is to prevent a hot war between the US/NATO!

    I doubt we’ll go to war against NATO. But maybe we should.

    Apparently I didn’t make my point very well, but I can’t read where I suggested a war between the US and NATO.

    No doubt Claire predicted one if we elected Trump.

    I wish our German friends had listened to Trump. It is sad how many people were broken by Trump derangement syndrome.

    The Germans cut military spending to pay for unification. Then decided Poland makes a nice buffer and Russia is an opportunity, not a threat.

    But Trump still warned them and they laughed at him if I recall.

    Trump took them to task for failing to live up to their NATO obligation of 2% defense spending. For practical purposes, the horse left the barn many years ago. 

    And they did laugh at Trump because, in their worldview, nobody expected the Spanish Inquisition.

    Or a hot war in middle Europe. 

    • #33
  4. Flicker Coolidge
    Flicker
    @Flicker

    Bishop Wash (View Comment):

    DrewInWisconsin, Oik (View Comment):

    Raxxalan (View Comment):

    DrewInWisconsin, Oik (View Comment):

    Misthiocracy has never (View Comment):

    Raxxalan (View Comment):
    I think Nohaaj’s point is that we aren’t giving the Ukrainians the same things we would be using to actually defend the US or our NATO allies if the Russians attacked Us/ NATO.

    Well, obviously. The whole point of the exercise is to prevent a hot war between the US/NATO!

    I doubt we’ll go to war against NATO. But maybe we should.

    Apparently I didn’t make my point very well, but I can’t read where I suggested a war between the US and NATO.

    (I think Misty just wrote poorly.)

    Would be an interesting thought experiment. Basing would be a concern. I suppose rolling north first and taking out the closest member would be a wise option. Eliminate the close threat. Then, where to establish a beachhead in Europe?

    And stop shipping LNG to Germany.

    • #34
  5. Doug Watt Member
    Doug Watt
    @DougWatt

    Here are the NATO nations paying their full share on defense spending:

    1. The U.S. — 3.61 percent of GDP on defense …
    2. Greece – 2.38 percent of GDP spent on defense …
    3. United Kingdom – 2.21 percent of GDP spent on defense …
    4. Estonia – 2.16 percent of GDP spent on defense …
    5. Poland – 2 percent of GDP spent on defense …

    Finland is ramping up their defense spending, as is Germany. Poland is on track to become the largest military power in Europe without nukes.

    • #35
  6. David Foster Member
    David Foster
    @DavidFoster

    155mm ammunition rebuild not possible because of ‘training requirememts’…what does this mean? Training who, in what?

    • #36
  7. Red Herring Coolidge
    Red Herring
    @EHerring

    Steve C. (View Comment):

    Misthiocracy has never (View Comment):

    One might note that Stinger missiles have never actually been used by US forces in sizable quantities. They’ve really only ever really been used by foreign forces, whether they be governments that bought them or “freedom fighters” that received them from the US government.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/FIM-92_Stinger#Service

    I hope you understand US forces not using Stingers in combat is a good thing.

    They are integral to airbase defense. Not used much= nothing is attacking our bases at the moment.

    • #37
  8. WI Con Member
    WI Con
    @WICon

    Raxxalan (View Comment):

    Several things can be true at once and I think many of them are when it comes to Ukraine. I don’t think our support for Ukraine is primarily because it is sound US policy to get involved in Ukraine. I think primarily we are in Ukraine because the Russian collusion narrative created Putin as a boogey man for the Left in the US. A secondary reason we are in Ukraine is because it has apparently been a “piggy bank”/ playground for western elites for a while. This makes Ukraine a virtue signaling opportunity for the international and America Left.

    This doesn’t mean that I don’t think there are legitimate US interests in stopping Russian aggression and in preventing Putin from gobbling up Ukraine, or at least making sure it is a bone that sticks in his/ Russia’s throat. It does mean that we aren’t operating from a well thought out foreign policy objective and with a sound strategic plan and goal for Ukraine. I think we, like so many other issues, are acting on an emotional position.

    Finally the left doesn’t do second order thinking well. It is totally conceivable to me that they don’t understand that all of this equipment needs to be replenished, and how long that will take. A word of caution though I think the estimates of how long it will take may be a little inaccurate. I suspect if we had a competent administration and a sober plan we could probably get that estimate down.

    The ‘Left’ might not understand the replenishment times, the Chinese probably do. I’m still expecting a move on Taiwan.

    • #38
  9. BDB Inactive
    BDB
    @BDB

    Raxxalan (View Comment):
    when we still had great hopes of bringing them into the international order peacefully

    Ha!

    • #39
  10. Duane Oyen Member
    Duane Oyen
    @DuaneOyen

    In the late 1980’s, I was the first analytical staffer for the Munitions Industrial Base Task Force I worked for a large defense company that made tank ammunition, helicopter rounds, torpedoes, etc. and was detailed over to the industry marketing co-op), charged with producing the report on lead times for various stockpiled and doctrinally meaningful ammunition.  There was zero concern about maintaining a replenishment capability, keeping warm lines at minimum sustaining rates, etc. The idea was always that there was a new weapon around the corner that would multiply forces so that you needed fewer and fewer shots to achieve needed results.  In short, the current situation is the same old thing that has inhered since the end of the Vietnam war.

    But the Ukraine theater is the right place- no Chinese conflict over Taiwan would involve this kind of ground conflict, mostly different weapons (air-air, sea-based) would be involved.

    The thing about this debate that amazes me is the sophomoric claims that we have no interest here, we are headed for American troops in ground combat, Abrams needs US soldiers in order to train/maintain, etc.  That betrays, I think, short-sightedness, lack of critical thinking/imagination, and naivete.  We have a pretty big stake in the world that does not favor a moat strategy, and we should be flooding the zones where other countries are willing to engage Russia, Iran, and China.  Active duty US military personnel are not needed to train or maintain systems that are in use all over the world.  The alternative is not Peace In Our Time. 

    Call me a neocon, I’d wear that label gladly before I’d be proud of abandoning free nations to rapacious thugs.

    • #40
  11. Duane Oyen Member
    Duane Oyen
    @DuaneOyen

    David Foster (View Comment):

    155mm ammunition rebuild not possible because of ‘training requirememts’…what does this mean? Training who, in what?

    That idea is utter nonsense, as you intimate.  

    • #41
  12. Paul Stinchfield Member
    Paul Stinchfield
    @PaulStinchfield

    Doug Watt (View Comment):

    The biggest strategic blunder was crippling US, and to a certain extent the Canadian fossil fuel industry. M1 Abrams, small, armored vehicles, supply trucks, combat aircraft, and naval vessels do not run on solar panels. Not to mention the ships, and trains necessary to provide logistical support to ports, and on the seas.

    I have seen a number of calls to “transition” the military from fossil fuels to solar power, including laughable talk about solar-powered tanks and aircraft. NATO Secretary General Stoltenberg has given a number of speeches about the importance of moving to renewables, but as far as I can tell he has kept his public remarks rather vague–it’s the journalists who have interpreted his remarks in various foolish ways.

     

    • #42
  13. BDB Inactive
    BDB
    @BDB

    Paul Stinchfield (View Comment):

    Doug Watt (View Comment):

    The biggest strategic blunder was crippling US, and to a certain extent the Canadian fossil fuel industry. M1 Abrams, small, armored vehicles, supply trucks, combat aircraft, and naval vessels do not run on solar panels. Not to mention the ships, and trains necessary to provide logistical support to ports, and on the seas.

    I have seen a number of calls to “transition” the military from fossil fuels to solar power, including laughable talk about solar-powered tanks and aircraft. NATO Secretary General Stoltenberg has given a number of speeches about the importance of moving to renewables, but as far as I can tell he has kept his public remarks rather vague–it’s the journalists who have interpreted his remarks in various foolish ways.

     

    Oh, we wasted an awful lot of money and readiness when Ray Mabus paraded around His Excellency Colonal Obama’s “Great Green Fleet” so that Navy ships could reach speeds of three, maybe four knots powered only by peanut butter.  Or something.

    • #43
  14. GPentelie Coolidge
    GPentelie
    @GPentelie

    Duane Oyen (View Comment):

    The thing about this debate that amazes me is the sophomoric claims that we have no interest here,  …

    Call me a neocon, I’d wear that label gladly before I’d be proud of abandoning free nations to rapacious thugs.

    Ukraine, for its entire history since independence in 1991, has been governed (more accurately, sliced, diced, fleeced) by alternating sets of rapacious thugs. In terms of the lives/livelihoods of the overwhelming majority of Ukrainians, which particular set thereof was lording it over them at any given time made little difference. In terms of the competing geopolitical notions/aspirations of Russia and the US/NATO, however, it made all the difference in the world. Hence the 30-year old to-and-fro jostling between the two sides, each trying to influence Ukraine’s internal politics with an eye to installing a set of rapacious thugs that is friendly to THEIR interests.

    This proxy war didn’t start on February 24, 2022. That’s just when, as warned about repeatedly over the last 3 decades by various Western diplomatic/military/etc. officials and such who are now being smeared as Chamberlain-type Putin-loving appeasers and such, it went from a “cold” proxy war to a “hot” one.

    • #44
  15. Rodin Member
    Rodin
    @Rodin

    Duane Oyen (View Comment):
    Call me a neocon, I’d wear that label gladly before I’d be proud of abandoning free nations to rapacious thugs.

    I respect your viewpoint, but life is not a simple white hat/black hat. One can decide to be the armorer for the world, but you need to organize your policies and have an economy that supports that. “Guns and butter” is where things started going wrong in our economy. And killing off our fossil energy base imposes costs on the populace that reverberates around the world. 

    • #45
  16. Paul Stinchfield Member
    Paul Stinchfield
    @PaulStinchfield

    BDB (View Comment):

    Paul Stinchfield (View Comment):

    Doug Watt (View Comment):

    The biggest strategic blunder was crippling US, and to a certain extent the Canadian fossil fuel industry. M1 Abrams, small, armored vehicles, supply trucks, combat aircraft, and naval vessels do not run on solar panels. Not to mention the ships, and trains necessary to provide logistical support to ports, and on the seas.

    I have seen a number of calls to “transition” the military from fossil fuels to solar power, including laughable talk about solar-powered tanks and aircraft. NATO Secretary General Stoltenberg has given a number of speeches about the importance of moving to renewables, but as far as I can tell he has kept his public remarks rather vague–it’s the journalists who have interpreted his remarks in various foolish ways.

     

    Oh, we wasted an awful lot of money and readiness when Ray Mabus paraded around His Excellency Colonal Obama’s “Great Green Fleet” so that Navy ships could reach speeds of three, maybe four knots powered only by peanut butter. Or something.

    Oh, yes. Jokes about ships powered by vegetable oil. Possibly the USS Mazola. (And as I recall these biofuels are less energy dense, which may limit engine power and certainly requires more frequent refueling. Not to mention questions about engine compatibiity and maintenance, of which I know little.)

    • #46
  17. DrewInWisconsin, Oik Member
    DrewInWisconsin, Oik
    @DrewInWisconsin

    Duane Oyen (View Comment):
    Call me a neocon, I’d wear that label gladly before I’d be proud of abandoning free nations to rapacious thugs.

    What if it’s the U.S. that’s being the rapacious thug?

    • #47
  18. GPentelie Coolidge
    GPentelie
    @GPentelie

    DrewInWisconsin, Oik (View Comment):

    Duane Oyen (View Comment):
    Call me a neocon, I’d wear that label gladly before I’d be proud of abandoning free nations to rapacious thugs.

    What if it’s the U.S. that’s being the rapacious thug?

    Not the rapacious thug. Just one of them.

    There are no White Hats among the major players in this mess.

    • #48
  19. Raxxalan Member
    Raxxalan
    @Raxxalan

    Steve C. (View Comment):

    Raxxalan (View Comment):

    Steve C. (View Comment):

    Raxxalan (View Comment):

    BDB (View Comment):

    Raxxalan (View Comment):

    DrewInWisconsin, Oik (View Comment):

    Misthiocracy has never (View Comment):

    Raxxalan (View Comment):
    I think Nohaaj’s point is that we aren’t giving the Ukrainians the same things we would be using to actually defend the US or our NATO allies if the Russians attacked Us/ NATO.

    Well, obviously. The whole point of the exercise is to prevent a hot war between the US/NATO!

    I doubt we’ll go to war against NATO. But maybe we should.

    Apparently I didn’t make my point very well, but I can’t read where I suggested a war between the US and NATO.

    No doubt Claire predicted one if we elected Trump.

    I wish our German friends had listened to Trump. It is sad how many people were broken by Trump derangement syndrome.

    The Germans cut military spending to pay for unification. Then decided Poland makes a nice buffer and Russia is an opportunity, not a threat.

    But Trump still warned them and they laughed at him if I recall.

    Trump took them to task for failing to live up to their NATO obligation of 2% defense spending. For practical purposes, the horse left the barn many years ago.

    And they did laugh at Trump because, in their worldview, nobody expected the Spanish Inquisition.

    Or a hot war in middle Europe.

    Yep actually it was when he pointed out that Germany might not want to make itself dependent on Russian gas, that they laughed, because of course Putin was always so trustworthy and honest.

    • #49
  20. Raxxalan Member
    Raxxalan
    @Raxxalan

    BDB (View Comment):

    Raxxalan (View Comment):
    when we still had great hopes of bringing them into the international order peacefully

    Ha!

    Agreed. but those were the End of History days.

    • #50
  21. Misthiocracy has never Member
    Misthiocracy has never
    @Misthiocracy

    DrewInWisconsin, Oik (View Comment):

    Misthiocracy has never (View Comment):

    The whole point of the exercise is to prevent a hot war between the US/NATO!

    I doubt we’ll go to war against NATO. But maybe we should. It would definitely be interesting.

    DrewInWisconsin, Oik (View Comment):

    Raxxalan (View Comment):

    DrewInWisconsin, Oik (View Comment):

    Misthiocracy has never (View Comment):

    Raxxalan (View Comment):
    I think Nohaaj’s point is that we aren’t giving the Ukrainians the same things we would be using to actually defend the US or our NATO allies if the Russians attacked Us/ NATO.

    Well, obviously. The whole point of the exercise is to prevent a hot war between the US/NATO!

    I doubt we’ll go to war against NATO. But maybe we should.

    Apparently I didn’t make my point very well, but I can’t read where I suggested a war between the US and NATO.

    (I think Misty just wrote poorly.)

    When in the history of history itself has a forward slash been shorthand for the word “and”?!

    • #51
  22. Misthiocracy has never Member
    Misthiocracy has never
    @Misthiocracy

    JoelB (View Comment):

    Nohaaj (View Comment):
    This war is teaching the world that a small unit with a $2,000 drone can readily destroy the $20MM tank.

    Could it be that the drones are making tanks obsolete as aircraft made battleships obsolete in WWII?

    How many tanks have been taken out by drones compared to the number taken out by shoulder-fired missiles?

    • #52
  23. Misthiocracy has never Member
    Misthiocracy has never
    @Misthiocracy

    DrewInWisconsin, Oik (View Comment):

    Duane Oyen (View Comment):
    Call me a neocon, I’d wear that label gladly before I’d be proud of abandoning free nations to rapacious thugs.

    What if it’s the U.S. that’s being the rapacious thug?

    That’s a very big “if”.

    • #53
  24. DrewInWisconsin, Oik Member
    DrewInWisconsin, Oik
    @DrewInWisconsin

    Misthiocracy has never (View Comment):

    DrewInWisconsin, Oik (View Comment):

    Misthiocracy has never (View Comment):

    The whole point of the exercise is to prevent a hot war between the US/NATO!

    I doubt we’ll go to war against NATO. But maybe we should. It would definitely be interesting.

    DrewInWisconsin, Oik (View Comment):

    Raxxalan (View Comment):

    DrewInWisconsin, Oik (View Comment):

    Misthiocracy has never (View Comment):

    Well, obviously. The whole point of the exercise is to prevent a hot war between the US/NATO!

    I doubt we’ll go to war against NATO. But maybe we should.

    Apparently I didn’t make my point very well, but I can’t read where I suggested a war between the US and NATO.

    (I think Misty just wrote poorly.)

    When in the history of history itself has a forward slash been shorthand for the word “and”?!

    You used “between” without specifying the other party. The interpretation was natural.

    Weirdo.

    • #54
  25. DrewInWisconsin, Oik Member
    DrewInWisconsin, Oik
    @DrewInWisconsin

    Misthiocracy has never (View Comment):

    DrewInWisconsin, Oik (View Comment):

    Duane Oyen (View Comment):
    Call me a neocon, I’d wear that label gladly before I’d be proud of abandoning free nations to rapacious thugs.

    What if it’s the U.S. that’s being the rapacious thug?

    That’s a very big “if”.

    Nah. I think the last 30 years shows the opposite.

    But I’m now an antiwar hippie.

    • #55
  26. Kevin Schulte Member
    Kevin Schulte
    @KevinSchulte

    Misthiocracy has never (View Comment):

    DrewInWisconsin, Oik (View Comment):

    Duane Oyen (View Comment):
    Call me a neocon, I’d wear that label gladly before I’d be proud of abandoning free nations to rapacious thugs.

    What if it’s the U.S. that’s being the rapacious thug?

    That’s a very big “if”.

    When there is a Big Guy that gets his cut , from the very nation that cut came from , that’s a tinny tinny “if” . 

    When foreign policy is how our ruling class get rich (both parties) . That “if” shrinks more. 

    When the military industrial complex has a stake in the “incursion” or “liberation” the “if” is getting hard to see . 

    When the action fit’s very nicely into the “Great Reset ” . Poof ! Where did that if go ?

    • #56
  27. BDB Inactive
    BDB
    @BDB

    Misthiocracy has never (View Comment):

    DrewInWisconsin, Oik (View Comment):

    Misthiocracy has never (View Comment):

    The whole point of the exercise is to prevent a hot war between the US/NATO!

    I doubt we’ll go to war against NATO. But maybe we should. It would definitely be interesting.

    DrewInWisconsin, Oik (View Comment):

    Raxxalan (View Comment):

    DrewInWisconsin, Oik (View Comment):

    Misthiocracy has never (View Comment):

    Raxxalan (View Comment):
    I think Nohaaj’s point is that we aren’t giving the Ukrainians the same things we would be using to actually defend the US or our NATO allies if the Russians attacked Us/ NATO.

    Well, obviously. The whole point of the exercise is to prevent a hot war between the US/NATO!

    I doubt we’ll go to war against NATO. But maybe we should.

    Apparently I didn’t make my point very well, but I can’t read where I suggested a war between the US and NATO.

    (I think Misty just wrote poorly.)

    When in the history of history itself has a forward slash been shorthand for the word “and”?!

    It can work well for “against”.

    • #57
  28. Raxxalan Member
    Raxxalan
    @Raxxalan

    Kevin Schulte (View Comment):

    Misthiocracy has never (View Comment):

    DrewInWisconsin, Oik (View Comment):

    Duane Oyen (View Comment):
    Call me a neocon, I’d wear that label gladly before I’d be proud of abandoning free nations to rapacious thugs.

    What if it’s the U.S. that’s being the rapacious thug?

    That’s a very big “if”.

    When there is a Big Guy that gets his cut , from the very nation that cut came from , that’s a tinny tinny “if” .

    When foreign policy is how our ruling class get rich (both parties) . That “if” shrinks more.

    When the military industrial complex has a stake in the “incursion” or “liberation” the “if” is getting hard to see .

    When the action fit’s very nicely into the “Great Reset ” . Poof ! Where did that if go ?

    The problem I have with all of that is it excuses Putin’s behavior.  Of course as I said before I don’t think we are in this primarily because it is in the interest of the US.  I think we are in this because it appeals to the emotions of global leftists.  I do think the US has legitimate interests in seeing Russia humbled and not seeing Russia absorb its neighbors, so I have very complicated feelings about this.

    • #58
  29. Nohaaj Coolidge
    Nohaaj
    @Nohaaj

    Nohaaj (View Comment):

    Another observation of this war, is the amazing tactical transformation in the use of the personal drone, and unmanned drones in locating and destroying traditional combat units. This war is teaching the world that a small unit with a $2,000 drone can readily destroy the $20MM tank. These drones combined with satellite imagery provide real time pinpoint data on locations and strength of units. The drones then have the lethal capability to deliver simple or complex attack systems. (ie gravity dropped or guided). It is different and evolving daily.

     

     

     

     

    Here is an example of the cheap drone fitted with the explosive head of an RPG allegedly taking out a Russian BMP.  https://www.battleswarmblog.com/?p=54003

    • #59
  30. The Reticulator Member
    The Reticulator
    @TheReticulator

    Raxxalan (View Comment):

    Several things can be true at once and I think many of them are when it comes to Ukraine. I don’t think our support for Ukraine is primarily because it is sound US policy to get involved in Ukraine. I think primarily we are in Ukraine because the Russian collusion narrative created Putin as a boogey man for the Left in the US. A secondary reason we are in Ukraine is because it has apparently been a “piggy bank”/ playground for western elites for a while. This makes Ukraine a virtue signaling opportunity for the international and America Left.

    This doesn’t mean that I don’t think there are legitimate US interests in stopping Russian aggression and in preventing Putin from gobbling up Ukraine, or at least making sure it is a bone that sticks in his/ Russia’s throat. It does mean that we aren’t operating from a well thought out foreign policy objective and with a sound strategic plan and goal for Ukraine. I think we, like so many other issues, are acting on an emotional position.

    Finally the left doesn’t do second order thinking well. It is totally conceivable to me that they don’t understand that all of this equipment needs to be replenished, and how long that will take. A word of caution though I think the estimates of how long it will take may be a little inaccurate. I suspect if we had a competent administration and a sober plan we could probably get that estimate down.

    It is not why I want us to support Ukraine, but one side benefit is that it is teaching us a lot about our own military readiness. It isn’t always a good picture.  I hope we learn some lessons from it. 

    It’s not only the inventory of munitions that I wonder about.  The fact that sending Abrams tanks to Ukraine requires such an elaborate infrastructure to go with them, and that it takes so long, makes me wonder.  

    • #60
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