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No US Troops in Ukraine, Thank You Very Much
If you’ve listened to today’s flagship podcast, you know it got a bit spicy. (If you haven’t yet listened, you’re in for a treat.) To briefly recap, co-host @jameslileks noted his support for Ukraine. Our guest considered his support insufficient because he does not want the U.S. military sent into the war zone.
This critique struck many Ricochetti as odd since the public agrees with James by a large margin. A recent Reuters poll showed that only 26 percent want troops tromping about the Transdnieper. The guest said, no problem, because public opinion is “malleable” (shudder). After the debacles in Iraq and Afghanistan, not to mention general governmental incompetence over two decades, I suspect we are less malleable than expected.
The days of massive American intervention are gone, at least for quite a while. I prefer a foreign policy that’s more John Quincy Adams than Woodrow Wilson, especially considering all the messes on the homefront.
In an 1823 letter to our Minister in Madrid, Hugh Nelson, JQA wrote:
It has been the policy of these United States from the time when their independence was achieved to hold themselves aloof from the political system and contentions of Europe… The first and paramount duty of the government is to maintain peace amidst the convulsions of foreign wars and to enter the lists as parties to no cause, other than our own.
Just so. The exigencies of the Cold War drastically changed this attitude, but it is long past time we return to its wisdom.
In his Independence Day address of 1821, Adams more completely laid out his foreign policy vision [emphases mine]:
America, in the assembly of nations, since her admission among them, has invariably, though often fruitlessly, held forth to them the hand of honest friendship, of equal freedom, of generous reciprocity. She has uniformly spoken among them, though often to heedless and often to disdainful ears, the language of equal liberty, of equal justice, and of equal rights. She has, in the lapse of nearly half a century, without a single exception, respected the independence of other nations while asserting and maintaining her own.
She has abstained from interference in the concerns of others, even when conflict has been for principles to which she clings, as to the last vital drop that visits the heart. She has seen that probably for centuries to come, all the contests of that Aceldama [field of blood], the European world, will be contests of inveterate power, and emerging right.
Wherever the standard of freedom and Independence has been or shall be unfurled, there will her heart, her benedictions and her prayers be. But she goes not abroad, in search of monsters to destroy. She is the well-wisher to the freedom and independence of all. She is the champion and vindicator only of her own.
She will commend the general cause by the countenance of her voice, and the benignant sympathy of her example. She well knows that by once enlisting under other banners than her own, were they even the banners of foreign independence, she would involve herself beyond the power of extrication, in all the wars of interest and intrigue, of individual avarice, envy, and ambition, which assume the colors and usurp the standard of freedom.
The fundamental maxims of her policy would insensibly change from liberty to force. The frontlet on her brows would no longer beam with the ineffable splendor of freedom and independence; but in its stead would soon be substituted an imperial diadem, flashing in false and tarnished lustre the murky radiance of dominion and power. She might become the dictatress of the world; she would be no longer the ruler of her own spirit….
Her glory is not dominion, but liberty. Her march is the march of the mind. She has a spear and a shield: but the motto upon her shield is, Freedom, Independence, Peace. This has been her Declaration: this has been, as far as her necessary intercourse with the rest of mankind would permit, her practice.
America was founded as a nation that minded its own business. The sooner we return to that vision, the safer we, and the world, will be. This is not “isolationism,” but common sense. We elect leaders to enact our will and protect our nation; it is other nations’ duty to do the same. If an enemy attacks us, we unleash hell upon them; that doesn’t mean we can police the world. We refuse even to police our own borders.
George Washington foreshadowed J. Q. Adams’ foreign policy. In his farewell address, our first president said:
Observe good faith and justice toward all nations. Cultivate peace and harmony with all. Religion and morality enjoin this conduct. And can it be that good policy does not equally enjoin it?
…In the execution of such a plan nothing is more essential than that permanent, inveterate antipathies against particular nations and passionate attachments for others should be excluded, and that in place of them just and amicable feelings toward all should be cultivated. The nation which indulges toward another an habitual hatred or an habitual fondness is in some degree a slave. It is a slave to its animosity or to its affection, either of which is sufficient to lead it astray from its duty and its interest. Antipathy in one nation against another disposes each more readily to offer insult and injury, to lay hold of slight causes of umbrage, and to be haughty and intractable when accidental or trifling occasions of dispute occur…. Hence frequent collisions, obstinate, envenomed, and bloody contests.
So, likewise, a passionate attachment of one nation for another produces a variety of evils. Sympathy for the favorite nation, facilitating the illusion of an imaginary common interest in cases where no real common interest exists, and infusing into one the enmities of the other, betrays the former into a participation in the quarrels and wars of the latter without adequate inducement or justification.
… it gives to ambitious, corrupted, or deluded citizens (who devote themselves to the favorite nation) facility to betray or sacrifice the interests of their own country without odium, sometimes even with popularity, gilding with the appearances of a virtuous sense of obligation, a commendable deference for public opinion, or a laudable zeal for public good the base or foolish compliances of ambition, corruption, or infatuation.
…Real patriots who may resist the intrigues of the favorite are liable to become suspected and odious, while its tools and dupes usurp the applause and confidence of the people to surrender their interests.
They might even demand you place a Ukraine flag emoji on your social media profile. Washington continues…
The great rule of conduct for us in regard to foreign nations is, in extending our commercial relations to have with them as little political connection as possible. So far as we have already formed engagements let them be fulfilled with perfect good faith. Here let us stop.
Europe has a set of primary interests which to us have none or a very remote relation. Hence she must be engaged in frequent controversies, the causes of which are essentially foreign to our concerns. Hence, therefore, it must be unwise in us to implicate ourselves by artificial ties in the ordinary vicissitudes of her politics or the ordinary combinations and collisions of her friendships or enmities.
Our detached and distant situation invites and enables us to pursue a different course. If we remain one people, under an efficient government, the period is not far off when we may defy material injury from external annoyance; when we may take such an attitude as will cause the neutrality we may at any time resolve upon to be scrupulously respected; when belligerent nations, under the impossibility of making acquisitions upon us, will not lightly hazard the giving us provocation; when we may choose peace or war, as our interest, guided by justice, shall counsel.
Why forego the advantages of so peculiar a situation? Why quit our own to stand upon foreign ground? Why, by interweaving our destiny with that of any part of Europe, entangle our peace and prosperity in the toils of European ambition, rivalship, interest, humor, or caprice?
It is our true policy to steer clear of permanent alliances with any portion of the foreign world, so far, I mean, as we are now at liberty to do it…
Wherever it is possible, bring our troops home. As long as we are not attacked, keep them here. Our military was founded to protect America, not any other nation, no matter how noble their fight may be.
Fair warning: I am not very malleable when body bags are advocated.
Published in Foreign Policy, Military
You really like to make me work, don’t you?
Iraq is a functioning Democracy.
Trump invited the Taliban, the people who hosted the training for the 9-11 terrorists, to the US for negotiations.
Of course, it happens all the time. But you are now implying that Bush criticized Trump, without ever actually saying it. I could just as easily say that you said “Hello, have you met language?” but what you really meant was “Steven is a doody-head.” Words really do have meanings. You just can’t decide what they mean. That’s what leftists have been doing ever since Trump was elected. Trump says “We want to build a border wall” and leftists say Trump just said that “Mexicans are stupid people who should be beaten with horse whips.”
Is your purpose here to turn this into a Trump discussion?
It happened in primaries in 2016. They were opponents and Trump said something that got under Bush family skin. No, I didn’t collect screenshots. I collect them on the left, rarely on the right.
Here it is. Read then get back on topic.
https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/7905415/donald-trump-vs-bush-family-feud/
Oh, very much so. We got our teeth kicked in enough times by the Republicans you have in mind.
That’s how you got Trump.
It would if we were checking IDs.
You won’t even vote for Republicans who don’t meet your approval, happy to cede Congress or the White House to Democrats. Maybe don’t preach about “that kind of generosity,” guy.
Some of us who wanted to defeat Harry Reid in his 2010 US Senate race look at Trump’s donation to Harry Reid’s 2010 US Senate campaign as a kick in the teeth.
When Trump appeared on the Fox Business Channel to endorse President Obama’s economic stimulus plan, while over 90 percent of Republicans in Congress voted against it, Republicans who opposed Obama’s give away programs viewed that as a kick in the teeth.
Same for when, in 2016, the North Carolina state legislature passed a bathroom bill that overturned the transgender bathroom bill passed in Charlotte, North Carolina got threatened with boycotts, Trump sided against the North Carolina state legislature instead of against the radical transgender movement. That was a kick in the teeth.
Says the guy who has a narrow view of who qualifies as a Republican.
Now do Trump as president.
I get that you hate Trump — you’ve made that clear — but you do realize the U.S.’s long involvement in Afghanistan includes actually funding the Taliban, . . . both before and after 9/11?
Or did history only begin with Trump for you?
Trump invited the Taliban, the regime that hosted the September 11, 2001 terrorists who attacked America, to the United States for negotiations.
Why does Trump appease America’s enemies?
Not the point, of course. The point is that nobody has to say specifically “Trump is a lousy person” in order to convey that meaning. They could say “Trump is a great person!” in a manner that clearly indicates they mean the opposite.
It’s one of the reasons why people who insist on reading transcripts rather than hearing what is actually said, might completely miss what really happens.
Oh, [REDACTED]. You did not. You just hate Trump and now you’re looking to justify it.
Sorry, I shouldn’t have taken the bait.
How about this: A Republican is someone who, at the very least, Chuck Schumer, Harry Reid, Terry MacAuliffe and Anthony Weiner.
That’s not a high bar to clear. But Trump couldn’t clear that bar.
The main question is who you want to control Congress or the White House. Doesn’t matter about the “quality” of the candidate as The Turtle is whining about. What matters is which party you want running this country. Vote for the Republican if you want Republicans in charge. Vote for Democrats if you want Democrats in charge.
Abstaining is basically saying that it doesn’t matter.
It depends on who it is and what they do. When Mitt Romney “can’t possibly” offer an endorsement in the Utah Senate race because both Mike Lee and Egg McMuffin are friends of his, it stretches credulity.
Mainly because Mitt doesn’t have any friends.
I’m suppose to be upset he made the Taliban come to him rather than the reverse? That isn’t appeasement but being boss.
Similar to the value of seeing the people being interviewed on podcasts. Don’t get me wrong, I like the format & portability, but Man, that footage of Schake responding to Lileks in the clip EJHill posted was priceless.
I’m going to give the caveat that I liked the overall presidency of Trump (before y’all skin me alive), but he did “kick us in the teeth” a few times.
The first is that he abandoned building “the wall” for the first two years of his presidency when he had majorities in both houses of Congress, despite it being his biggest and most unwavering campaign issue. Ann Coulter, one of his biggest supporters just about disowned him over it and held a public vigil of counting the number of passing days where Trump never lifted a finger toward the wall. He waited until the Democrats took over the House to revive “the wall” as an issue but then it was too late to get funding from Congress. He was reduced to finagling money from unconventional sources which didn’t add up to the amount he could have gotten from Congress. Thus, he only got partial stretches of the border fence, which has come back to haunt us under Biden.
Trump’s spending was through the roof! George W. Bush’s biggest problem in my opinion was his huge budgets that increased the National Debt. But he was a piker compared to Trump. Every single year’s budget deficit under Trump was at minimum 40% higher than George Bush’s single worst spending year. I know that conservatives have pretty much abandoned fiscal responsibility but I have not. Outside of the social issues, it is to me, the biggest threat to our country. Just look what is happening with a little inflation and imagine what things would look like with a total financial collapse.
A third “kick in the teeth” would be the total reversal on prosecuting Hillary Clinton that I mentioned earlier. Trump used the expected future prosecution of Clinton as a rallying cry at his campaign stops. Then when push came to shove, he caved. That is the epitome of the two-tiered Justice System where the “big guys” get away with murder while the little guy flounders in jail.
My biggest beef is that Trump excluded the Afghanistan Government from the negotiations. I’m willing to give him the benefit of the doubt, however, because there might have been a good reason to do so. But it would have to be mighty big to exclude them and not exclude a sworn terrorist enemy.
Spending will go through the roof until the country collapses. So much of it is not discretionary. Entitlements consume~12-13% of GDP.
It doesn’t have to be (new) spending that makes things collapse. Last I heard, it would take only a rather minor increase of interest rates before “debit service” consumes ALL “discretionary” spending.
You say that as if it is okay to keep up the massive government spending. I think it is wrong.
Just for effect:
Which of those words are defined as approval?
I didn’t say it is ok. I merely stated reality.