Bret Stephens: ‘I Was Wrong About Trump Voters’

 

Thursday, there was a remarkable sight on the New York Times Opinion Page. Eight different columnists remark on how they were wrong about different issues. Paul Krugman admits that he was wrong about inflation. Thomas Friedman admits that he was wrong about the extent of Chinese censorship. Gail Collins admits that she was wrong about Mitt Romney. And Brett Stephens admits that he was wrong about Trump voters. It is a great column and can be found here. While the New York Times columns are behind a paywall, I think that you can read ten columns a month for free. This should be one of them.

Bret Stephens was a great columnist for the Wall Street Journal. Reportedly he left the Journal after concluding that they were being too easy on Trump, and he joined the New York Times. I ended my subscription to the Wall Street Journal about the same time, for about the same reason. So, Stephens and I have a long history of antipathy towards Trump. However, he admits that he has been wrong about Trump voters, and I generally think that I have been too. Stephen’s column begins, “The worst line I ever wrote as a pundit — yes, I know, it’s a crowded field — was the first line I ever wrote about the man who would become the 45th president: ‘If by now you don’t find Donald Trump appalling, you’re appalling.’”

I agree. What a way to make and influence people. Stephens continues,

This opening salvo, from August 2015, was the first in what would become dozens of columns denouncing Trump as a unique threat to American life, democratic ideals and the world itself. I regret almost nothing of what I said about the man and his close minions. But the broad swipe at his voters caricatured them and blinkered me.

It also probably did more to help than hinder Trump’s candidacy. Telling voters they are moral ignoramuses is a bad way of getting them to change their minds.

I agree with Stephens. This is so well stated. Stephens then states,

… Though I had spent the years of Barack Obama’s presidency denouncing his policies, my objections were more abstract than personal. I belonged to a social class that my friend Peggy Noonan called ‘the protected.’ My family lived in a safe and pleasant neighborhood. Our kids went to an excellent public school. I was well paid, fully insured, insulated against life’s harsh edges.

Trump’s appeal, according to Noonan, was largely to people she called ‘the unprotected.’ Their neighborhoods weren’t so safe and pleasant. Their schools weren’t so excellent. Their livelihoods weren’t so secure. Their experience of America was often one of cultural and economic decline, sometimes felt in the most personal of ways.

Ouch. I am part of the ‘protected class.’ I live in my beautiful mountain and university town with a population of only 100,000 with all of the amenities of a city five times as large. I live in a nice neighborhood with nonexistent crime, surrounded by a golf course. I have Medicare for health insurance. I am my own boss and run my office as I see fit. My judges know and like me. Life is pretty good for me.

Stephens continues,

It was an experience compounded by the insult of being treated as losers and racists —clinging, in Obama’s notorious 2008 phrase, to ‘guns or religion or antipathy toward people who aren’t like them.’

I remember having lunch with a major Democrat figure who told me that he was convinced that opposition to Obama was primarily racist. Grrrr.

Then Stephens says,

Trump voters had a powerful case to make that they had been thrice betrayed by the nation’s elites. First, after 9/11, when they had borne much of the brunt of the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan, only to see Washington fumble and then abandon the efforts. Second, after the financial crisis of 2008, when so many were being laid off, even as the financial class was being bailed out. Third, in the post-crisis recovery, in which years of ultralow interest rates were a bonanza for those with investable assets and brutal for those without.

Oh, and then came the great American cultural revolution of the 2010s, in which traditional practices and beliefs — regarding same-sex marriage, sex-segregated bathrooms, personal pronouns, meritocratic ideals, race-blind rules, reverence for patriotic symbols, the rules of romance, the presumption of innocence and the distinction between equality of opportunity and outcome — became, more and more, not just passé, but taboo.

It’s one thing for social mores to evolve over time, aided by respect for differences of opinion. It’s another for them to be abruptly imposed by one side on another, with little democratic input but a great deal of moral bullying.

I share this anger about the above things. But again, I am protected. For better or worse, lawyers are pretty protected. The best book about the evils of the transgenderism, Irreversible Damage: The Transgender Craze Seducing Our Daughters, was written by a lawyer with strong First Amendment protections. If a Psychologist or Counselor were to have written this book, they would be facing an ethics charge by their licensing board. But the State Bar would laugh at such an ethics charge.

Stephens then states,

For every in-your-face MAGA warrior there were plenty of ambivalent Trump supporters, doubtful of his ability and dismayed by his manner, who were willing to take their chances on him because he had the nerve to defy deeply flawed conventional pieties.

I have faced my share of MAGA warriors. But far more Trump voters are ambivalent, doubtful, and dismayed by Trump than I give them credit.

Then Stephens hits home with this paragraph:

Nor were they impressed by Trump critics who had their own penchant for hypocrisy and outright slander. To this day, precious few anti-Trumpers have been honest with themselves about the elaborate hoax — there’s just no other word for it — that was the Steele dossier and all the bogus allegations, credulously parroted in the mainstream media, that flowed from it.

Ouch. Oh, all the hours I wasted watching MSNBC’s evening shows! All of the energy that I wasted hoping that Trump would be caught! I was not until I read Bill Barr’s book One Damn Thing After Another that I realized that I had been wrong and wrote about it here.

The book is very well done. And it changed my mind. After the Mueller Report came out, I posted both the Introduction and Executive Summary on Collusion and Obstruction. (See here.) Barr does a deep dive into the Mueller Report and how Mueller both over-read and under-read his remit. My mind had been marinated in the MSNBC and my own TDS. But now reading Barr’s account led me to the conclusion that the Mueller investigation was a search for not all that much, and was a general waste of time and money. I was stunned. But I changed my mind.

To the credit of my fellow Ricochetti, there was almost no “I told you so.” Incredible.

Stephens ends his piece,

… I would also approach these [Trump] voters in a much different spirit than I did the last time. ‘A drop of honey catches more flies than a gallon of gall,’ noted Abraham Lincoln early in his political career. ‘If you would win a man to your cause, first convince him that you are his sincere friend.’ Words to live by, particularly for those of us in the business of persuasion.

Words to live by when posting and commenting at Ricochet.

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  1. Hoyacon Member
    Hoyacon
    @Hoyacon

    Gary Robbins (View Comment):

    BDB (View Comment):

    Gary Robbins (View Comment):
    It was an extreme dereliction of duty that Trump failed to take firm and resolute action to defend the Capitol.

    First, off, defending the Capitol ain’t Trump’s bag, baby.

    Second, as others have pointed out, there is NO WAY Trump could have assembled a military contingent without everybody from Rachel Madcow to you screaming that he was now a military dictator. Just picture yourself patting Trump on the back for brutally crushing dissent, or threatening to, etc. You’re just plain hostile to him.

    How about Trump going immediately to the Press Room Podium where the camera is always “live” and asking the rioters to go home?

    Is it more likely that those intending to participate in the riot would have better access to Twitter?   How many people near, at, or in the Cap[itol were “following Trump at that time?  Certainly the Committee kicked this around.

     

    • #181
  2. DrewInWisconsin, Unapologetic Oaf Member
    DrewInWisconsin, Unapologetic Oaf
    @DrewInWisconsin

    Gary Robbins (View Comment):

    I remember a session in the press room where Trump was at the podium where he riffed on alternative treatments for COVID-19. Deborah Brix was on the side of the room to Trump’s right and she looked down as Trump riffed. I think you are glomming onto the more extreme wording by Democrats.

    No, Gary. You’re the one who’s glomming onto the narrative of the Democrats.

    He did not say to drink bleach. That you still believe he did points to some basic problems with cognition.

    • #182
  3. Columbo Inactive
    Columbo
    @Columbo

    RufusRJones (View Comment):

    Columbo (View Comment):

    Gary Robbins (View Comment):

    Columbo (View Comment):

    Gary Robbins (View Comment):

    Bob Thompson (View Comment):

    Gary Robbins (View Comment):

    Timothy Landon (View Comment):

    Stina (View Comment):

    DrewInWisconsin, Unapologetic … (View Comment):

    I can’t believe that long-debunked lie is still being spread by the evil January 6th Committee.

    And I can’t believe we can’t call people out for continuing to propagate it. Should I flag him for continuing to perpetuate lies?

     

    That is the amount of time from when Trump ended his speech on the Ellipse to when he released his Rose Garden statement. During that time the Capitol was overrun and members of Congress were forced to flee for their safety.

    Where were those who are responsible for Capitol security?

    The President of the United States takes an oath to faithfully preserve and protect the Constitution and laws of the United States against all enemies, foreign and domestic. Trump failed to do that, and in fact,whipped up the murderous crowd by saying that Mike Pence let us down.

    Whipped Up!!!? By saying that ‘Mike Pence let us down’. Do you hear yourself? Pathetic.

    Before the 9/11 hijacked planes crashed, the passengers called home to say “good-byr” to their families.

    On January 6, 2021 members of Mike Pence’s Secret Service Detail called to say “good-bye” to their families.

    You are cra cra. You have totally left the Inciting a Riot claim.

    I believe that the Fred Thompson thought process [link] should rule EVERY impeachment question. What is the Framer’s intended definition of “high crimes and misdemeanors”? Neither the democrats nor their useful idiots in the gOp ever take the time to critically look at their emotions and rational reasons for attempting to pursue an impeachment process.

    If you look at the federalist papers they aren’t supposed to impeach unless they know they are going to get 2/3 of the Senate, which is another way of saying you have the bulk of public opinion across the country.

    The other thing is, they hid too much of it behind the intelligence committee. This also goes against the federalist papers.

    It’s not supposed to be a partisan political cudgle.

    Clinton deserved to be impeached because he had a bar card and he was the head of the DOJ, but the public didn’t get it.

    You would think a person who considers themselves a conservative and lover of the Constitution, at this point would admit that the ‘high crimes and misdemeanors’threshhold (according to the federalist papers) has not been met with either of the democrat inquisitions (not to mention the Weissman/Mueller Kangaroo Court), which have all proven to be based upon lies. They have never had the bulk of public opinion across the country.  Perhaps they thought they did because the mitt romney republicans said they did.

    • #183
  4. Stina Inactive
    Stina
    @CM

    Gary Robbins (View Comment):

    Stina (View Comment):

    Gary Robbins (View Comment):

    DrewInWisconsin, Unapologetic … (View Comment):

    Stina (View Comment):

    DrewInWisconsin, Unapologetic … (View Comment):

    I can’t believe that long-debunked lie is still being spread by the evil January 6th Committee.

    And I can’t believe we can’t call people out for continuing to propagate it. Should I flag him for continuing to perpetuate lies?

    Ricochet management totally believes it, too, so there’s no point.

    The Code of Conduct prohibits the one word comment of “Liar.” Drew, if I called you a ”liar,” that would also be redacted.

    For the record Drew, I believe that you are a honest man. I disagree with you a lot, but I can’t ever remember you lying. Ricochet is lucky to have you as a member.

    Except Drew hasn’t been lying.

    And nowhere did Trump say “Drink bleach“. The word was “disinfectant” and as many housewives know, the push against relying on bleach has many using vinegar, lemon, and other non-toxic disinfectants. It appears that you are lying yet again. But I know the real problem is that you let professional liars dictate the thoughts in your head.

    I remember a session in the press room where Trump was at the podium where he riffed on alternative treatments for COVID-19. Deborah Brix was on the side of the room to Trump’s right and she looked down as Trump riffed. I think you are glomming onto the more extreme wording by Democrats.

    You are lying again. I looked up that transcript for the benefit of Blue Yeti quite a while ago.

    I know you don’t think for yourself, so I’ll take pity on you for your continued faith in the charlatans of MSNBC, NYT, WP, and CNN. But you might want to consider finding new sources that are more reliable.

    • #184
  5. Columbo Inactive
    Columbo
    @Columbo

    Hoyacon (View Comment):

    Gary Robbins (View Comment):

    This has been a good conversation. There have been almost no cheap shots. I Comment #75, Drew appropriately challenged me on 12 alleged Democrat hoaxes. I answered in detail in Comment #144 (while my lunch grew cold!) No “special friends” just “honorable opponents” with tough questions. That is the best of Ricochet.

    Unfortunately, this isn’t:

    Trump failed to do that, and in fact,whipped up the murderous crowd by saying that Mike Pence let us down.

     

    ‘Murderous’. That would actually be funny if the stakes weren’t so high.

    The folks behind the cameras obviously did not perceive anything close to ‘murderous’.

    • #185
  6. Hoyacon Member
    Hoyacon
    @Hoyacon

    Columbo (View Comment):

    Hoyacon (View Comment):

    Gary Robbins (View Comment):

    This has been a good conversation. There have been almost no cheap shots. I Comment #75, Drew appropriately challenged me on 12 alleged Democrat hoaxes. I answered in detail in Comment #144 (while my lunch grew cold!) No “special friends” just “honorable opponents” with tough questions. That is the best of Ricochet.

    Unfortunately, this isn’t:

    Trump failed to do that, and in fact,whipped up the murderous crowd by saying that Mike Pence let us down.

    ‘Murderous’. That would actually be funny if the stakes weren’t so high.

    The folks behind the cameras obviously did not perceive anything close to ‘murderous’.

    Let’s be clear.  The former President of the United State is being accused of conspiracy to commit murder.  Yet that’s apparently not a violation of the CoC.

    • #186
  7. DrewInWisconsin, Unapologetic Oaf Member
    DrewInWisconsin, Unapologetic Oaf
    @DrewInWisconsin

    Even left-wing Politifact knocked this down.

    His comments came after William Bryan, the undersecretary for science and technology at the Department of Homeland Security, presented a study that found sun exposure and cleaning agents like bleach can kill the virus when it lingers on surfaces.

    Trump remarked on the effectiveness of those methods and wondered if they could help address infections in the human body.

    Here are his full comments:

    “A question that probably some of you are thinking of if you’re totally into that world, which I find to be very interesting. So, supposedly we hit the body with a tremendous, whether it’s ultraviolet or just very powerful light, and I think you said that hasn’t been checked, but you’re going to test it. And then I said supposing you brought the light inside the body, which you can do either through the skin or in some other way. (To Bryan) And I think you said you’re going to test that, too. Sounds interesting, right?”

    “And then I see the disinfectant, where it knocks it out in one minute. And is there a way we can do something like that, by injection inside or almost a cleaning, because you see it gets in the lungs and it does a tremendous number on the lungs, so it’d be interesting to check that, so that you’re going to have to use medical doctors with, but it sounds interesting to me. So, we’ll see, but the whole concept of the light, the way it kills it in one minute. That’s pretty powerful.”

    Later, Trump clarified his comments after a reporter asked Bryan whether disinfectants could actually be injected into COVID-19 patients.

    “It wouldn’t be through injections, almost a cleaning and sterilization of an area. Maybe it works, maybe it doesn’t work, but it certainly has a big effect if it’s on a stationary object.”

    As you can see, he’s talking very specifically about UV Light Therapy.

    Nothing anywhere close to “drinking bleach.” But Democrats lie, the media lies, and people who are highly susceptible to suggestion believe obvious lies no matter how many times they’re shown the truth.

     

    • #187
  8. kedavis Coolidge
    kedavis
    @kedavis

    DrewInWisconsin, Unapologetic … (View Comment):

    Even left-wing Politifact knocked this down.

    His comments came after William Bryan, the undersecretary for science and technology at the Department of Homeland Security, presented a study that found sun exposure and cleaning agents like bleach can kill the virus when it lingers on surfaces.

    Trump remarked on the effectiveness of those methods and wondered if they could help address infections in the human body.

    Here are his full comments:

    “A question that probably some of you are thinking of if you’re totally into that world, which I find to be very interesting. So, supposedly we hit the body with a tremendous, whether it’s ultraviolet or just very powerful light, and I think you said that hasn’t been checked, but you’re going to test it. And then I said supposing you brought the light inside the body, which you can do either through the skin or in some other way. (To Bryan) And I think you said you’re going to test that, too. Sounds interesting, right?”

    “And then I see the disinfectant, where it knocks it out in one minute. And is there a way we can do something like that, by injection inside or almost a cleaning, because you see it gets in the lungs and it does a tremendous number on the lungs, so it’d be interesting to check that, so that you’re going to have to use medical doctors with, but it sounds interesting to me. So, we’ll see, but the whole concept of the light, the way it kills it in one minute. That’s pretty powerful.”

    Later, Trump clarified his comments after a reporter asked Bryan whether disinfectants could actually be injected into COVID-19 patients.

    “It wouldn’t be through injections, almost a cleaning and sterilization of an area. Maybe it works, maybe it doesn’t work, but it certainly has a big effect if it’s on a stationary object.”

    As you can see, he’s talking very specifically about UV Light Therapy.

    Nothing anywhere close to “drinking bleach.” But Democrats lie, the media lies, and people who are highly susceptible to suggestion believe obvious lies no matter how many times they’re shown the truth.

     

    That’s a lot of what would seem to make a person non-honorable.

    • #188
  9. Columbo Inactive
    Columbo
    @Columbo

    Hoyacon (View Comment):

    Columbo (View Comment):

    Hoyacon (View Comment):

    Gary Robbins (View Comment):

    This has been a good conversation. There have been almost no cheap shots. I Comment #75, Drew appropriately challenged me on 12 alleged Democrat hoaxes. I answered in detail in Comment #144 (while my lunch grew cold!) No “special friends” just “honorable opponents” with tough questions. That is the best of Ricochet.

    Unfortunately, this isn’t:

    Trump failed to do that, and in fact,whipped up the murderous crowd by saying that Mike Pence let us down.

    ‘Murderous’. That would actually be funny if the stakes weren’t so high.

    The folks behind the cameras obviously did not perceive anything close to ‘murderous’.

    Let’s be clear. The President of the United State is being accused of conspiracy to commit murder. Yet that’s apparently not a violation of the CoC.

    It’s like Rico permitting AOC tons of print space here daily to exasperate its subscribers.

    • #189
  10. Stina Inactive
    Stina
    @CM

    So do I get to flag Gary everytime he lies about this? Is that against the COC? Fruitcake/misinformation ?

    Of course not. Because Blue Yeti believes this lie, too!

    • #190
  11. Front Seat Cat Member
    Front Seat Cat
    @FrontSeatCat

    Gary – this is a foolish post and so are the writers that you cite – NYT writers – wow!  Not one word of Stephens’ quotes that you included mean a hill of beans because you and they are wrong – to this day. You think you can characterize Trump, then figure out what is right or wrong about those who supported him, and try to drip a little honey? Seriously? Your post insults me.

    The wealthy, poor, working class, fly-over states, East and West Coast voted for him, both in 2016 and 2020.  The 2016 election because he was different – 2020 because he produced results – for everybody.  Who did he not represent? He had everyone at the WH – from corporate to clergy. He asked for ideas from big tech. He donated more to black colleges than any other president. He took the safety of our country and the well being of our citizens seriously, as well as our allies, especially Israel.  Yet no one appreciated it. Now look where they are.  Look where our country is under Biden and Democratic “leadership”.

    Whether he runs again or someone else and wins, his legacy bettered all Americans.

    • #191
  12. kedavis Coolidge
    kedavis
    @kedavis

    Front Seat Cat (View Comment):

    Gary – this is a foolish post and so are the writers that you cite – NYT writers – wow! Not one word of Stephens’ quotes that you included mean a hill of beans because you and they are wrong – to this day. You think you can characterize Trump, then figure out what is right or wrong about those who supported him, and try to drip a little honey? Seriously? Your post insults me.

    The wealthy, poor, working class, fly-over states, East and West Coast voted for him, both in 2016 and 2020. The 2016 election because he was different – 2020 because he produced results – for everybody. Who did he not represent? He had everyone at the WH – from corporate to clergy. He asked for ideas from big tech. He donated more to black colleges than any other president. He took the safety of our country and the well being of our citizens seriously, as well as our allies, especially Israel. Yet no one appreciated it. Now look where they are. Look where our country is under Biden and Democratic “leadership”.

    Whether he runs again or someone else and wins, his legacy bettered all Americans.

    And whether or not they understand and appreciate it.

    • #192
  13. Gary Robbins Member
    Gary Robbins
    @GaryRobbins

    The New York Post Editorial Board said it better than I have at https://nypost.com/2022/07/22/trumps-jan-6-silence-renders-him-unworthy-for-2024-reelection/:

    “As his followers stormed the Capitol, calling for his vice president to be hanged, President Donald Trump sat in his private dining room, watching TV, doing nothing.

    “For three hours, seven minutes.

    “There has been much debate over whether Trump’s rally speech on Jan. 6, 2021, constituted “incitement.” That’s somewhat of a red herring. What matters more — and has become crystal clear in recent days — is that Trump didn’t lift a finger to stop the violence that followed.

    “And he was the only person who could stop what was happening. He was the only one the crowd was listening to. It was incitement by silence.”

    The editorial concludes:

    “It’s up to the Justice Department to decide if this is a crime. But as a matter of principle, as a matter of character, Trump has proven himself unworthy to be this country’s chief executive again.”

    • #193
  14. Gary Robbins Member
    Gary Robbins
    @GaryRobbins

    The Wall Street Jounal has also weighed in.  They write at https://www.wsj.com/articles/the-president-who-stood-still-donald-trump-jan-6-committee-mike-pence-capitol-riot-11658528548:

    “Still, the brute facts remain: Mr. Trump took an oath to defend the Constitution, and he had a duty as Commander in Chief to protect the Capitol from a mob attacking it in his name. He refused. He didn’t call the military to send help. He didn’t call Mr. Pence to check on the safety of his loyal VP. Instead he fed the mob’s anger and let the riot play out.

    “In the 18 months since, Mr. Trump has shown not an iota of regret. On Thursday he claimed to be vindicated by a bill to clarify the Electoral Count Act. ‘Mike Pence told me, and everybody else, there was nothing he could do,’ Mr. Trump wrote. ‘If so, how come the Democrats and RINOs are working so hard to make sure there is nothing a VP can do.’

    “Character is revealed in a crisis, and Mr. Pence passed his Jan. 6 trial. Mr. Trump utterly failed his.”

    • #194
  15. Hoyacon Member
    Hoyacon
    @Hoyacon

    Gary Robbins (View Comment):

    The Wall Street Jounal has also weighed in. They write at https://www.wsj.com/articles/the-president-who-stood-still-donald-trump-jan-6-committee-mike-pence-capitol-riot-11658528548:

    “Still, the brute facts remain: Mr. Trump took an oath to defend the Constitution, and he had a duty as Commander in Chief to protect the Capitol from a mob attacking it in his name. He refused. He didn’t call the military to send help. He didn’t call Mr. Pence to check on the safety of his loyal VP. Instead he fed the mob’s anger and let the riot play out.

    “In the 18 months since, Mr. Trump has shown not an iota of regret. On Thursday he claimed to be vindicated by a bill to clarify the Electoral Count Act. ‘Mike Pence told me, and everybody else, there was nothing he could do,’ Mr. Trump wrote. ‘If so, how come the Democrats and RINOs are working so hard to make sure there is nothing a VP can do.’

    “Character is revealed in a crisis, and Mr. Pence passed his Jan. 6 trial. Mr. Trump utterly failed his.”

    Does this excuse the fact that you accused the former President of conspiracy to commit murder?

    Instead he fed the mob’s anger and let the riot play out.

    I have a good deal of respect for the WSJ’s editorial board.  Yet it doesn’t seem too much to ask to substantiate this claim.

     

    • #195
  16. BDB Inactive
    BDB
    @BDB

    Hoyacon (View Comment):

    Columbo (View Comment):

    Hoyacon (View Comment):

    Gary Robbins (View Comment):

    This has been a good conversation. There have been almost no cheap shots. I Comment #75, Drew appropriately challenged me on 12 alleged Democrat hoaxes. I answered in detail in Comment #144 (while my lunch grew cold!) No “special friends” just “honorable opponents” with tough questions. That is the best of Ricochet.

    Unfortunately, this isn’t:

    Trump failed to do that, and in fact,whipped up the murderous crowd by saying that Mike Pence let us down.

    ‘Murderous’. That would actually be funny if the stakes weren’t so high.

    The folks behind the cameras obviously did not perceive anything close to ‘murderous’.

    Let’s be clear. The former President of the United State is being accused of conspiracy to commit murder. Yet that’s apparently not a violation of the CoC.

    Let’s not stand on ceremony.  I appreciate being able to speak Truth to Clintons.   Fight speech with better speech, not censorship.  

    • #196
  17. DrewInWisconsin, Unapologetic Oaf Member
    DrewInWisconsin, Unapologetic Oaf
    @DrewInWisconsin

    Hoyacon (View Comment):

    Gary Robbins (View Comment):

    Instead he fed the mob’s anger and let the riot play out.

    I have a good deal of respect for the WSJ’s editorial board. Yet it doesn’t seem too much to ask to substantiate this claim.

     

    It’s mind-reading again. Without mind-reading they’d have nothing on Trump. With mind-reading they have . . . mind-reading.

    • #197
  18. BDB Inactive
    BDB
    @BDB

    DrewInWisconsin, Unapologetic … (View Comment):

    Even left-wing Politifact knocked this down.

    His comments came after William Bryan, the undersecretary for science and technology at the Department of Homeland Security, presented a study that found sun exposure and cleaning agents like bleach can kill the virus when it lingers on surfaces.

    Trump remarked on the effectiveness of those methods and wondered if they could help address infections in the human body.

    Here are his full comments:

    “A question that probably some of you are thinking of if you’re totally into that world, which I find to be very interesting. So, supposedly we hit the body with a tremendous, whether it’s ultraviolet or just very powerful light, and I think you said that hasn’t been checked, but you’re going to test it. And then I said supposing you brought the light inside the body, which you can do either through the skin or in some other way. (To Bryan) And I think you said you’re going to test that, too. Sounds interesting, right?”

    “And then I see the disinfectant, where it knocks it out in one minute. And is there a way we can do something like that, by injection inside or almost a cleaning, because you see it gets in the lungs and it does a tremendous number on the lungs, so it’d be interesting to check that, so that you’re going to have to use medical doctors with, but it sounds interesting to me. So, we’ll see, but the whole concept of the light, the way it kills it in one minute. That’s pretty powerful.”

    Later, Trump clarified his comments after a reporter asked Bryan whether disinfectants could actually be injected into COVID-19 patients.

    “It wouldn’t be through injections, almost a cleaning and sterilization of an area. Maybe it works, maybe it doesn’t work, but it certainly has a big effect if it’s on a stationary object.”

    As you can see, he’s talking very specifically about UV Light Therapy.

    Nothing anywhere close to “drinking bleach.” But Democrats lie, the media lies, and people who are highly susceptible to suggestion believe obvious lies no matter how many times they’re shown the truth.

     

    Under-rated comment, worthy of an entry in the Ricochet FAQ.  

    • #198
  19. Hoyacon Member
    Hoyacon
    @Hoyacon

    BDB (View Comment):

    Hoyacon (View Comment):

    Columbo (View Comment):

    Hoyacon (View Comment):

    Gary Robbins (View Comment):

    This has been a good conversation. There have been almost no cheap shots. I Comment #75, Drew appropriately challenged me on 12 alleged Democrat hoaxes. I answered in detail in Comment #144 (while my lunch grew cold!) No “special friends” just “honorable opponents” with tough questions. That is the best of Ricochet.

    Unfortunately, this isn’t:

    Trump failed to do that, and in fact,whipped up the murderous crowd by saying that Mike Pence let us down.

    ‘Murderous’. That would actually be funny if the stakes weren’t so high.

    The folks behind the cameras obviously did not perceive anything close to ‘murderous’.

    Let’s be clear. The former President of the United State is being accused of conspiracy to commit murder. Yet that’s apparently not a violation of the CoC.

    Let’s not stand on ceremony. I appreciate being able to speak Truth to Clintons. Fight speech with better speech, not censorship.

    Nah.  This is a concrete accusation base on available facts.  It’s fruitcake stuff.

    • #199
  20. DrewInWisconsin, Unapologetic Oaf Member
    DrewInWisconsin, Unapologetic Oaf
    @DrewInWisconsin

    Gary Robbins (View Comment):

    The New York Post Editorial Board said it better than I have at . . .

    I don’t care about this. I care about the fact that you still believe the bleach lie. I need to save you from the mind-controllers. C’mon, repeat after me: “The president never said to drink bleach . . . the president never said to drink bleach . . . the president never said to drink bleach . . . “

    I need you to put this into your brain as many times as the original lie went into your brain. You must overcome lies with truth, and the truth shall set you free.

    Live not by lies.

    • #200
  21. Gary Robbins Member
    Gary Robbins
    @GaryRobbins

    Hoyacon (View Comment):

    Gary Robbins (View Comment):

    The Wall Street Jounal has also weighed in. They write at https://www.wsj.com/articles/the-president-who-stood-still-donald-trump-jan-6-committee-mike-pence-capitol-riot-11658528548:

    “Still, the brute facts remain: Mr. Trump took an oath to defend the Constitution, and he had a duty as Commander in Chief to protect the Capitol from a mob attacking it in his name. He refused. He didn’t call the military to send help. He didn’t call Mr. Pence to check on the safety of his loyal VP. Instead he fed the mob’s anger and let the riot play out.

    “In the 18 months since, Mr. Trump has shown not an iota of regret. On Thursday he claimed to be vindicated by a bill to clarify the Electoral Count Act. ‘Mike Pence told me, and everybody else, there was nothing he could do,’ Mr. Trump wrote. ‘If so, how come the Democrats and RINOs are working so hard to make sure there is nothing a VP can do.’

    “Character is revealed in a crisis, and Mr. Pence passed his Jan. 6 trial. Mr. Trump utterly failed his.”

    Does this excuse the fact that you accused the former President of conspiracy to commit murder?

    I think that you are overstating what I said.  Trump assembled the rioter, Trump whipped them up, Trump aimed them at the Capitol, when the mob was chanting “Hang Mike Pence” Trump did nothing effective.  Indeed, he sent a tweet attacking Mike Pence.  Trump sent out a couple of ineffective tweets, but refused to simply go to the Press Room to call on his followers to go home.

    Instead he fed the mob’s anger and let the riot play out.

    I have a good deal of respect for the WSJ’s editorial board. Yet it doesn’t seem too much to ask to substantiate this claim.

    The proof was shown in extreme detail on Thursday at the January 6 Committee Hearing.  It’s not too late for you to watch the hearing in YouTube.

    • #201
  22. Gary Robbins Member
    Gary Robbins
    @GaryRobbins

    DrewInWisconsin, Unapologetic … (View Comment):

    Gary Robbins (View Comment):

    The New York Post Editorial Board said it better than I have at . . .

    I don’t care about this. I care about the fact that you still believe the bleach lie. I need to save you from the mind-controllers. C’mon, repeat after me: “The president never said to drink bleach . . . the president never said to drink bleach . . . the president never said to drink bleach . . . “

    I need you to put this into your brain as many times as the original lie went into your brain. You must overcome lies with truth, and the truth shall set you free.

    Live not by lies.

    Okay, I went back to Comment #75.  Item #5 was 

    “5.  Trump suggested drinking/injecting bleach to fight COVID.”

    Trump did not suggest drinking or injecting bleach to fight COVID.  Trump suggested many things, but he did not suggest drinking or injecting bleach to fight COVID.  

    • #202
  23. DrewInWisconsin, Unapologetic Oaf Member
    DrewInWisconsin, Unapologetic Oaf
    @DrewInWisconsin

    Gary Robbins (View Comment):

    DrewInWisconsin, Unapologetic … (View Comment):

    Gary Robbins (View Comment):

    The New York Post Editorial Board said it better than I have at . . .

    I don’t care about this. I care about the fact that you still believe the bleach lie. I need to save you from the mind-controllers. C’mon, repeat after me: “The president never said to drink bleach . . . the president never said to drink bleach . . . the president never said to drink bleach . . . “

    I need you to put this into your brain as many times as the original lie went into your brain. You must overcome lies with truth, and the truth shall set you free.

    Live not by lies.

    Okay, I went back to Comment #75. Item #5 was

    “5. Trump suggested drinking/injecting bleach to fight COVID.”

    Trump did not suggest drinking or injecting bleach to fight COVID. Trump suggested many things, but he did not suggest drinking or injecting bleach to fight COVID.

    Good. That’s one down.

    We have 343 lies to go.

    • #203
  24. kedavis Coolidge
    kedavis
    @kedavis

    DrewInWisconsin, Unapologetic … (View Comment):

    Gary Robbins (View Comment):

    DrewInWisconsin, Unapologetic … (View Comment):

    Gary Robbins (View Comment):

    The New York Post Editorial Board said it better than I have at . . .

    I don’t care about this. I care about the fact that you still believe the bleach lie. I need to save you from the mind-controllers. C’mon, repeat after me: “The president never said to drink bleach . . . the president never said to drink bleach . . . the president never said to drink bleach . . . “

    I need you to put this into your brain as many times as the original lie went into your brain. You must overcome lies with truth, and the truth shall set you free.

    Live not by lies.

    Okay, I went back to Comment #75. Item #5 was

    “5. Trump suggested drinking/injecting bleach to fight COVID.”

    Trump did not suggest drinking or injecting bleach to fight COVID. Trump suggested many things, but he did not suggest drinking or injecting bleach to fight COVID.

    Good. That’s one down.

    We have 343 lies to go.

    Don’t turn your back, he’ll get back to it like he got back to saying “insurrection” after saying he would stop.

    • #204
  25. Annefy Member
    Annefy
    @Annefy

    Gary Robbins (View Comment):

    Annefy (View Comment):

    Gary Robbins (View Comment):

    Timothy Landon (View Comment):

    Stina (View Comment):

    DrewInWisconsin, Unapologetic … (View Comment):

    I can’t believe that long-debunked lie is still being spread by the evil January 6th Committee.

    And I can’t believe we can’t call people out for continuing to propagate it. Should I flag him for continuing to perpetuate lies?

    I assume the 187 minute delay relates to Trump not taking official action to respond to the security situation on Capitol Hill.

    That is the amount of time from when Trump ended his speech on the Ellipse to when he released his Rose Garden statement. During that time the Capitol was overrun and members of Congress were forced to flee for their safety.

    I just can’t take this seriously after so many were “forced to flee for their safety”, were injured, and some lost everything during the summer of 2020. My DIL’s elderly aunt was unable to “flee”, so my DIL stayed on the phone with her for 8 hours, listening to the violence getting closer and closer.

    No one cared about my DIL’s elderly aunt; I don’t care about able-bodied congresspeople.

    I care both about your Daughter-In-Law’s elderly aunt, and about the Constitution of the United States.

    No. You don’t care about my DILs elderly aunt  Because you voted for a president. And that president’s VP donated – and encouraged others to do so – to the bail funds of those who terrorized my DIL’a elderly aunt, along with thousands of others. And that happened BEFORE the election.

    I am incapable of reading peoples’ minds; nor can I look into their hearts. I’m left with judging people based upon their behavior.

    Based upon your behavior, you have been judged. And found wanting

    (slight edit to codify who Gary Robbins doesn’t care about)

    • #205
  26. Gary Robbins Member
    Gary Robbins
    @GaryRobbins

    DrewInWisconsin, Unapologetic … (View Comment):

    Gary Robbins (View Comment):

    DrewInWisconsin, Unapologetic … (View Comment):

    Gary Robbins (View Comment):

    The New York Post Editorial Board said it better than I have at . . .

    I don’t care about this. I care about the fact that you still believe the bleach lie. I need to save you from the mind-controllers. C’mon, repeat after me: “The president never said to drink bleach . . . the president never said to drink bleach . . . the president never said to drink bleach . . . “

    I need you to put this into your brain as many times as the original lie went into your brain. You must overcome lies with truth, and the truth shall set you free.

    Live not by lies.

    Okay, I went back to Comment #75. Item #5 was

    “5. Trump suggested drinking/injecting bleach to fight COVID.”

    Trump did not suggest drinking or injecting bleach to fight COVID. Trump suggested many things, but he did not suggest drinking or injecting bleach to fight COVID.

    Good. That’s one down.

    We have 343 lies to go.

    Line them up.  Let’s do this!

    I think that there must a complete overhaul of the FBI.  The notion that someone in the FBI talked about wearing a wire to catch Trump in a lie is repulsive to me.

    However, in light of the Secret Service “losing” all texts from January 5th and 6th, would you agree that the Secret Service also needs to be completely overhauled?

    • #206
  27. Annefy Member
    Annefy
    @Annefy

    Gary Robbins (View Comment):

    GlennAmurgis (View Comment):

    Gary Robbins (View Comment):

    Hoyacon (View Comment):

    Before we get all warm and fuzzy, Stephens also claims in the same column that supporting Trump in ‘24 is siding with “an ex-president with a record of trying to break the Republic itself.”

    What Stephens says more completely is “It’s one thing to take a gamble on a candidate who promises a break with business as usual. It’s another to do that with an ex-president with a record of trying to break the Republic itself.”

    Stephens continues with strong issues with Trump, however, he is easing up on Trump voters.

    What I hear from Stephens is that he is much more understanding and accepting of people voting for Trump back in 2016 and 2020, but Stephens would not want them to vote for Trump in 2024.

    The answer for me is “let’s get Trump’s better policies without Trump himself.” But that is outside the scope of this column. (I am good with DeSantis and a number of other governors.)

    What I do not understand about the never Trump is where is the same level of anger at Biden?

    His is a big a demagogue as Trump. He is a habitual liar. He and his family is involved in a lot of influence peddling with shady countries and business around the world. His energy polices, economic policies and foreign policies are all horrible. He is pushing ESG agenda. He is making the military – one of the last good organizations in the US into a joke.

    Where is the outrage? I don’t see it

    Biden is horrible, failing at damn near everything except Ukraine, and, well the attempted violent overthrow of the government.

    By contrast, Trump was good on judges, taxes and regulations, but that is overshadowed by Trump’s Big Lie about the 2020 election, and his attempted violent overthrow of the government.

    Weird. Those two things happened after the election. Oh wait. I forgot you’re  psychic 

    • #207
  28. Gary Robbins Member
    Gary Robbins
    @GaryRobbins

    kedavis (View Comment):

    DrewInWisconsin, Unapologetic … (View Comment):

    Gary Robbins (View Comment):

    DrewInWisconsin, Unapologetic … (View Comment):

    Gary Robbins (View Comment):

    The New York Post Editorial Board said it better than I have at . . .

    I don’t care about this. I care about the fact that you still believe the bleach lie. I need to save you from the mind-controllers. C’mon, repeat after me: “The president never said to drink bleach . . . the president never said to drink bleach . . . the president never said to drink bleach . . . “

    I need you to put this into your brain as many times as the original lie went into your brain. You must overcome lies with truth, and the truth shall set you free.

    Live not by lies.

    Okay, I went back to Comment #75. Item #5 was

    “5. Trump suggested drinking/injecting bleach to fight COVID.”

    Trump did not suggest drinking or injecting bleach to fight COVID. Trump suggested many things, but he did not suggest drinking or injecting bleach to fight COVID.

    Good. That’s one down.

    We have 343 lies to go.

    Don’t turn your back, he’ll get back to it like he got back to saying “insurrection” after saying he would stop.

    I have been convinced by the January 6th Committee that what we had was an insurrection.  Now that I have more information, I changed my mind.  I think that you would really benefit by watching the January 6th Committee on YouTube.  

    • #208
  29. Gary Robbins Member
    Gary Robbins
    @GaryRobbins

    Annefy (View Comment):

    Gary Robbins (View Comment):

    GlennAmurgis (View Comment):

    Gary Robbins (View Comment):

    Hoyacon (View Comment):

    Before we get all warm and fuzzy, Stephens also claims in the same column that supporting Trump in ‘24 is siding with “an ex-president with a record of trying to break the Republic itself.”

    What Stephens says more completely is “It’s one thing to take a gamble on a candidate who promises a break with business as usual. It’s another to do that with an ex-president with a record of trying to break the Republic itself.”

    Stephens continues with strong issues with Trump, however, he is easing up on Trump voters.

    What I hear from Stephens is that he is much more understanding and accepting of people voting for Trump back in 2016 and 2020, but Stephens would not want them to vote for Trump in 2024.

    The answer for me is “let’s get Trump’s better policies without Trump himself.” But that is outside the scope of this column. (I am good with DeSantis and a number of other governors.)

    What I do not understand about the never Trump is where is the same level of anger at Biden?

    His is a big a demagogue as Trump. He is a habitual liar. He and his family is involved in a lot of influence peddling with shady countries and business around the world. His energy polices, economic policies and foreign policies are all horrible. He is pushing ESG agenda. He is making the military – one of the last good organizations in the US into a joke.

    Where is the outrage? I don’t see it

    Biden is horrible, failing at damn near everything except Ukraine, and, well the attempted violent overthrow of the government.

    By contrast, Trump was good on judges, taxes and regulations, but that is overshadowed by Trump’s Big Lie about the 2020 election, and his attempted violent overthrow of the government.

    Weird. Those two things happened after the election. Oh wait. I forgot you’re psychic

    Since Trump said that the only way he could lose was if the Democrats cheated, I had a strong premonition that as to his behavior after the 2020 election.  Trump exceeded my worst expectations.

    • #209
  30. DonG (CAGW is a Hoax) Coolidge
    DonG (CAGW is a Hoax)
    @DonG

    Franco (View Comment):
    It’s because Biden doesn’t represent “their” party and thus it has no reflection on them and their supposed  virtue. I think they actually believe Republicans are, or ‘should’ be better people. For them their representatives- especially a President- is supposed to be someone who is impeccably admirable.

    There can be only one party dedicated to the coastal elites and the Dems are now it.  Sorry GOP.   Sorry fake conservative grifters.   If you want to go to the cool cocktail parties, you are going to have to join the commie party.

    • #210
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