Why Are Abortion Proponents So Emotional?

 

Proponents of abortion get quite emotional, many to the point of irrationality. Their reactions to the potential that there might be even the slightest constraints on abortion are way over the top. We have seen quite a bit of hysterics on display the last couple of months.

Why? I can’t think of another issue that generates such a high level of emotion, even supposedly existential issues like “climate change.” The weird sex advocates get emotional and are very persistent, but even they don’t get hysterical in the same way that abortion advocates do.

What is it about abortion that causes such reactions?

For this discussion, I am referring to the extreme activists who put themselves on public display, not the vast muddy middle of people that @susanquinn  addresses below.

[I operate on a theory that the more I understand the other party’s motivations, the more likely I can help either find a workable solution, or convince them that they might be mistaken.]

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  1. BDB Inactive
    BDB
    @BDB

    MarciN (View Comment):

    If there were any justice in this life, the protesters would be tracked down by any means necessary, including immoral means, and then they would be locked up in filthy prisons for eighteen months awaiting a show trial.

    Who are you and what have you done with MarciN?

    • #91
  2. BDB Inactive
    BDB
    @BDB

    OmegaPaladin (View Comment):

    I think the Second Wave Feminism answer has a lot of weight to it. It’s a view of motherhood as living hell, of abject slavery in service of men and a tiny tyrant. Imagine you are required by law to take care of Joe Biden – change his diapers, make sure he is minimally embarrassing in public, dress him, watch him like a hawk because his actions are your responsibility. For this, you receive no pay, and you are expected to pay for all of the supplies.

    Motherhood is the one of the most intense responsibilities out there, and is about as far from freedom as possible. I wonder about their childhoods – did their mothers seem that miserable? It’s hard to imagine parenthood without love for the child.

    Sexual freedom is a huge part of this. The Left believes nothing should ever stop people from screwing. Add in how disruptive having kids is to your life plans, and you have a pretty solid reason to want abortion.

    @ henrycastaigne I think gets at why any restriction is treated as an attack. Abortion lets you exercise complete control over your body.

    1.  Okay then — you women go fight the wars and hold back the forces of nature, and we men will stay at home and give birth.
    2. “Required by law”: Laws, and civilization itself, developed in the shadow of millions of years of sexual dimorphism.  This stuff is just a fact, and facts do not care about the feelings of any wave of feminism, nor anybody else.  Poor Me, Not Fair, I Want…  piffle.
    3. Primate societies feature differing roles for male and female progenitors (“parents”).  We are primates, and conservatives view society as reflecting rather than disparaging our nature.  It doesn’t take an Adam & Eve literalism to see the truth written in our bones and genes.
    4. Bones evolve slowly.  Brains more quickly.  Patterns within brains more quickly still.  Yet only bones leave a clear impression for the record.  We may say that it is what it is, but in a dismissive tone, that is inappropriate.  IT IS WHAT IT IS.  Man -> World : Woman -> Home
    5. Legal equality is right and good, and is as close to actual equality as we dare get.  Various experiments in equality are now producing fruit.  Super-equality is supremacism, but the various current supremacist efforts are rarely called out for what they are.
    6. Modern men are still better equipped to recognize the world as it is — we have evolved to be so.  Modern women are still better equipped to discern details of relationships and so forth, similarly.  The growing area of thought now considered off-limits includes these truths.  Men are punished for not being women, and women are punished for not being men.  This is a recipe for disaster.
    7. Pay?  PAY?  Motherhood and fatherhood are evolved in our social species to be a partnership, with DNA (reproduce!), endorphins (love!), and social reinforcement (marry!) providing forceful backup to this approach.

    Pay for motherhood is obscenity.

     

     

    • #92
  3. BDB Inactive
    BDB
    @BDB

    kedavis (View Comment):

    Henry Castaigne (View Comment):

    kedavis (View Comment):

    Henry Castaigne (View Comment):

    Matthew Singer (View Comment):

    OmegaPaladin (View Comment):

    I think the Second Wave Feminism answer has a lot of weight to it. It’s a view of motherhood as living hell, of abject slavery in service of men and a tiny tyrant. Imagine you are required by law to take care of Joe Biden – change his diapers, make sure he is minimally embarrassing in public, dress him, watch him like a hawk because his actions are your responsibility. For this, you receive no pay, and you are expected to pay for all of the supplies.

    Motherhood is the one of the most intense responsibilities out there, and is about as far from freedom as possible. I wonder about their childhoods – did their mothers seem that miserable? It’s hard to imagine parenthood without love for the child.

    Sexual freedom is a huge part of this. The Left believes nothing should ever stop people from screwing. Add in how disruptive having kids is to your life plans, and you have a pretty solid reason to want abortion.

    @ henrycastaigne I think gets at why any restriction is treated as an attack. Abortion lets you exercise complete control over your body.

    OK, I’m a sexist and a male chauvinist but motherhood is what women literally exist for. To perpetuate the species as it were. God or Nature it the main purpose. (Donning asbestos armour)

    This is so but men were naturally made to rape and conquer foreigners. Nature sucks. We should try to move beyond our filthy ape nature.

    If men stop raping and conquering, civilization can still continue. Not so if women don’t have children.

    Fair point. But I think civilization will be fine if leftist ladies with blue hair don’t have children. Actually, I think it would be much improved.

    They already do that, but it doesn’t help as much as it should because they get to indoctrinate other peoples’ children.

    Exactly.  The left doesn’t need children of their own — they just take yours.

    • #93
  4. BDB Inactive
    BDB
    @BDB

    Henry Castaigne (View Comment):

    Matthew Singer (View Comment):

    OmegaPaladin (View Comment):

    I think the Second Wave Feminism answer has a lot of weight to it. It’s a view of motherhood as living hell, of abject slavery in service of men and a tiny tyrant. Imagine you are required by law to take care of Joe Biden – change his diapers, make sure he is minimally embarrassing in public, dress him, watch him like a hawk because his actions are your responsibility. For this, you receive no pay, and you are expected to pay for all of the supplies.

    Motherhood is the one of the most intense responsibilities out there, and is about as far from freedom as possible. I wonder about their childhoods – did their mothers seem that miserable? It’s hard to imagine parenthood without love for the child.

    Sexual freedom is a huge part of this. The Left believes nothing should ever stop people from screwing. Add in how disruptive having kids is to your life plans, and you have a pretty solid reason to want abortion.

    @ henrycastaigne I think gets at why any restriction is treated as an attack. Abortion lets you exercise complete control over your body.

    OK, I’m a sexist and a male chauvinist but motherhood is what women literally exist for. To perpetuate the species as it were. God or Nature it the main purpose. (Donning asbestos armour)

    This is so but men were naturally made to rape and conquer foreigners. Nature sucks. We should try to move beyond our filthy ape nature.

    This is the Progressive impulse.  It denigrates fact and advocates fiction.

    Progress is good, but only from the bottom up.

    • #94
  5. MarciN Member
    MarciN
    @MarciN

    BDB (View Comment):

    MarciN (View Comment):

    If there were any justice in this life, the protesters would be tracked down by any means necessary, including immoral means, and then they would be locked up in filthy prisons for eighteen months awaiting a show trial.

    Who are you and what have you done with MarciN?

    I’m sorry. I just want justice for the J6 political prisoners. That’s what I was saying. :-)

    I remain incensed by how they have been treated.

    It was a snark. :-)

    • #95
  6. BDB Inactive
    BDB
    @BDB

    MarciN (View Comment):

    BDB (View Comment):

    MarciN (View Comment):

    If there were any justice in this life, the protesters would be tracked down by any means necessary, including immoral means, and then they would be locked up in filthy prisons for eighteen months awaiting a show trial.

    Who are you and what have you done with MarciN?

    I’m sorry. I just want justice for the J6 political prisoners. That’s what I saying. :-)

    I’m remain incensed by how they have been treated.

    It was a snark. :-)

    No apologies, please!   I’m cheering you on even in my shock.  :-)

    • #96
  7. Joseph Stanko Coolidge
    Joseph Stanko
    @JosephStanko

    Douglas Pratt (View Comment):

    “Ken Olin tweeted that men should be “financially on the hook from the moment of conception.”

    That’s how it’s worked since the dawn of recorded history. Ol’ Ken really thinks he’s stumbled onto something there, doesn’t he?

    Indeed, that’s precisely why so many men support abortion, and pressure their girlfriends into having an abortion: so they don’t have to pay 18 years of child support.

    • #97
  8. kedavis Coolidge
    kedavis
    @kedavis

    Joseph Stanko (View Comment):

    Douglas Pratt (View Comment):

    “Ken Olin tweeted that men should be “financially on the hook from the moment of conception.”

    That’s how it’s worked since the dawn of recorded history. Ol’ Ken really thinks he’s stumbled onto something there, doesn’t he?

    Indeed, that’s precisely why so many men support abortion, and pressure their girlfriends into having an abortion: so they don’t have to pay 18 years of child support.

    Or perhaps marry someone that they didn’t want to be around but for the boinking.

    • #98
  9. CACrabtree Coolidge
    CACrabtree
    @CACrabtree

    kedavis (View Comment):

    Joseph Stanko (View Comment):

    Douglas Pratt (View Comment):

    “Ken Olin tweeted that men should be “financially on the hook from the moment of conception.”

    That’s how it’s worked since the dawn of recorded history. Ol’ Ken really thinks he’s stumbled onto something there, doesn’t he?

    Indeed, that’s precisely why so many men support abortion, and pressure their girlfriends into having an abortion: so they don’t have to pay 18 years of child support.

    Or perhaps marry someone that they didn’t want to be around but for the boinking.

    Well, that’s where the term “shotgun wedding” came from.  

    “C’est la vie”, say the old folks, it goes to show you never can tell”…

    • #99
  10. kedavis Coolidge
    kedavis
    @kedavis

    CACrabtree (View Comment):

    kedavis (View Comment):

    Joseph Stanko (View Comment):

    Douglas Pratt (View Comment):

    “Ken Olin tweeted that men should be “financially on the hook from the moment of conception.”

    That’s how it’s worked since the dawn of recorded history. Ol’ Ken really thinks he’s stumbled onto something there, doesn’t he?

    Indeed, that’s precisely why so many men support abortion, and pressure their girlfriends into having an abortion: so they don’t have to pay 18 years of child support.

    Or perhaps marry someone that they didn’t want to be around but for the boinking.

    Well, that’s where the term “shotgun wedding” came from.

    “C’est la vie”, say the old folks, it goes to show you never can tell”…

    • #100
  11. Annefy Member
    Annefy
    @Annefy

    Jerry Giordano (Arizona Patrio… (View Comment):

    Annefy (View Comment):

    Jerry Giordano (Arizona Patrio… (View Comment):

    Henry Castaigne (View Comment):

    kedavis (View Comment):

    Henry Castaigne (View Comment):

    kedavis (View Comment):

    Jerry Giordano (Arizona Patrio… (View Comment):

    I think that abortion proponents are furious because women were subjugated and brutalized by men throughout history. Women were essentially treated as male property, a form of slavery, until about a century ago. Women were denied the vote, denied education, denied almost all areas of employment, prohibited from holding office and not even allowed to sit on a jury.

    There were some advances in women’s rights in the early 20th Century, with further advances in the 1960s and 1970s. But women were still forced to bear children against their will. The power of the oppressive male hierarchy was so strong that the Supreme Court had to step in to secure a woman’s right to choose whether or not to have a child.

    In short, without abortion rights, women exist in a state of sexual slavery. The other rights that women have won, in areas like education and employment, are jeopardized as well, because women cannot effectively exercise their liberty and individual sovereignty in a regime of forced pregnancy and motherhood.

    So the abortion proponents, it seems to me, recognize that losing the right to abortion means returning to the Dark Ages.

    No wonder they are angry.

    Can we have some middle ground? Women probably got the short end of the stick historically but it wasn’t like it was any great prize to be born a poor dude. Most wives loved their husbands and their husbands loved them but I am sympathetic to the argument that a husband could be a monster to his wife and get away with it.

    Wives could be bad too.

    And women like Anita Hill and Christine Blasey Ford and that white lady that got Emmett Till killed can lie with sociopathic callousness. Good point Kedavis.

    Maybe you guys find the Paglia quote persuasive. For an abortion proponent, she’s the equivalent of a Rick Wilson or a David French.

    I try not to respond to comments that are just being contrarian for the sake of being contrarian. But I have a lot of young women in my life, and I’ve touted Camille’s talking points more than once. Not sure I’ve changed any minds (yet) but it gives them pause.

     

    My goal was not to be contrarian for its own sake. It was to present the viewpoint that the more angry abortion proponents hold.

    I’m glad to hear that Paglia gives some of them pause, but it also appears, from your comment, that it’s not ultimately convincing to them. At least not right away.

    It’s also the first time in their lives they’ve ever heard that men had any value whatsoever. Women have been taught that men live solely to oppress women.

    • #101
  12. kedavis Coolidge
    kedavis
    @kedavis

    Annefy (View Comment):

    Jerry Giordano (Arizona Patrio… (View Comment):

    Annefy (View Comment):

    Jerry Giordano (Arizona Patrio… (View Comment):

    Henry Castaigne (View Comment):

    kedavis (View Comment):

    Henry Castaigne (View Comment):

    kedavis (View Comment):

    Jerry Giordano (Arizona Patrio… (View Comment):

    There were some advances in women’s rights in the early 20th Century, with further advances in the 1960s and 1970s. But women were still forced to bear children against their will. The power of the oppressive male hierarchy was so strong that the Supreme Court had to step in to secure a woman’s right to choose whether or not to have a child.

    In short, without abortion rights, women exist in a state of sexual slavery. The other rights that women have won, in areas like education and employment, are jeopardized as well, because women cannot effectively exercise their liberty and individual sovereignty in a regime of forced pregnancy and motherhood.

    So the abortion proponents, it seems to me, recognize that losing the right to abortion means returning to the Dark Ages.

    No wonder they are angry.

    Can we have some middle ground? Women probably got the short end of the stick historically but it wasn’t like it was any great prize to be born a poor dude. Most wives loved their husbands and their husbands loved them but I am sympathetic to the argument that a husband could be a monster to his wife and get away with it.

    Wives could be bad too.

    And women like Anita Hill and Christine Blasey Ford and that white lady that got Emmett Till killed can lie with sociopathic callousness. Good point Kedavis.

    Maybe you guys find the Paglia quote persuasive. For an abortion proponent, she’s the equivalent of a Rick Wilson or a David French.

    I try not to respond to comments that are just being contrarian for the sake of being contrarian. But I have a lot of young women in my life, and I’ve touted Camille’s talking points more than once. Not sure I’ve changed any minds (yet) but it gives them pause.

    My goal was not to be contrarian for its own sake. It was to present the viewpoint that the more angry abortion proponents hold.

    I’m glad to hear that Paglia gives some of them pause, but it also appears, from your comment, that it’s not ultimately convincing to them. At least not right away.

    It’s also the first time in their lives they’ve ever heard that men had any value whatsoever. Women have been taught that men live solely to oppress women.

    If the world (at least our part of it) has gotten to the point where women think they can deal with it without the help of a man, it’s only because men made it that way.

    • #102
  13. Manny Coolidge
    Manny
    @Manny

    kedavis (View Comment):

    Henry Castaigne (View Comment):

    Matthew Singer (View Comment):

    OmegaPaladin (View Comment):

    I think the Second Wave Feminism answer has a lot of weight to it. It’s a view of motherhood as living hell, of abject slavery in service of men and a tiny tyrant. Imagine you are required by law to take care of Joe Biden – change his diapers, make sure he is minimally embarrassing in public, dress him, watch him like a hawk because his actions are your responsibility. For this, you receive no pay, and you are expected to pay for all of the supplies.

    Motherhood is the one of the most intense responsibilities out there, and is about as far from freedom as possible. I wonder about their childhoods – did their mothers seem that miserable? It’s hard to imagine parenthood without love for the child.

    Sexual freedom is a huge part of this. The Left believes nothing should ever stop people from screwing. Add in how disruptive having kids is to your life plans, and you have a pretty solid reason to want abortion.

    @ henrycastaigne I think gets at why any restriction is treated as an attack. Abortion lets you exercise complete control over your body.

    OK, I’m a sexist and a male chauvinist but motherhood is what women literally exist for. To perpetuate the species as it were. God or Nature it the main purpose. (Donning asbestos armour)

    This is so but men were naturally made to rape and conquer foreigners. Nature sucks. We should try to move beyond our filthy ape nature.

    If men stop raping and conquering, civilization can still continue. Not so if women don’t have children.

    And men weren’t made to rape and conquer.  That’s from his perverse understanding of humanity.

    • #103
  14. kedavis Coolidge
    kedavis
    @kedavis

    Manny (View Comment):

    kedavis (View Comment):

    Henry Castaigne (View Comment):

    Matthew Singer (View Comment):

    OmegaPaladin (View Comment):

    I think the Second Wave Feminism answer has a lot of weight to it. It’s a view of motherhood as living hell, of abject slavery in service of men and a tiny tyrant. Imagine you are required by law to take care of Joe Biden – change his diapers, make sure he is minimally embarrassing in public, dress him, watch him like a hawk because his actions are your responsibility. For this, you receive no pay, and you are expected to pay for all of the supplies.

    Motherhood is the one of the most intense responsibilities out there, and is about as far from freedom as possible. I wonder about their childhoods – did their mothers seem that miserable? It’s hard to imagine parenthood without love for the child.

    Sexual freedom is a huge part of this. The Left believes nothing should ever stop people from screwing. Add in how disruptive having kids is to your life plans, and you have a pretty solid reason to want abortion.

    @ henrycastaigne I think gets at why any restriction is treated as an attack. Abortion lets you exercise complete control over your body.

    OK, I’m a sexist and a male chauvinist but motherhood is what women literally exist for. To perpetuate the species as it were. God or Nature it the main purpose. (Donning asbestos armour)

    This is so but men were naturally made to rape and conquer foreigners. Nature sucks. We should try to move beyond our filthy ape nature.

    If men stop raping and conquering, civilization can still continue. Not so if women don’t have children.

    And men weren’t made to rape and conquer. That’s from his perverse understanding of humanity.

    As I’ve pointed out before, maybe on a different post/thread, a “famous” feminist once made the accusation that “all men are equipped to be rapists.”  To which the response was – and remains – “all women are equipped to be prostitutes.”

    • #104
  15. Cassandro Coolidge
    Cassandro
    @Flicker

    Matthew Singer (View Comment):

    Manny (View Comment):

    Manny (View Comment):

    Why? That is a good question, which I’ve pondered way back when Bill Clinton was triangulating. He could compromise on just about anything when Republicans had that revolutionary retake of Congress in 1994. Even when he was being impeached they stuck by him as long as he was pro-abortion. So why do they hold on to abortion to this level? The only thing I can conclude is that this is a “religious” issue for them. It’s a matter of doctrine, dogma, and “religious” devotion. It is the left’s “sacrament” and Satanic devotion.

    I should add to this. Abortion is the sacrament but the faith is in sexual freedom. Sexual freedom is their spiritual connection with whatever they consider divine. It’s actually quite a pagan outlook.

    Must be a secrament. See “Shout your abortion” along with “Why I Celebrate My Abortion on Mother’s Day”

    And you can only accomplish this sacrament if you become pregnant.  What is rewarded will invariably increase.

    • #105
  16. Podkayne of Israel Inactive
    Podkayne of Israel
    @PodkayneofIsrael

    kedavis (View Comment):

    Annefy (View Comment):

    Jim McConnell (View Comment):

    CACrabtree (View Comment):

    Yes, they burned down Portland again last night, even though Oregon is one of the most leftist, pro-abortion states. Its just a reflex reaction, and they are always “angry.” Must be a miserable way to live.

    The anger is looking for an outlet. But why are they angry? There’s a different answer for every person. Daddy issues is a big one (even I don’t have enough guts to say that to their face). A lot of them are angry at the guy who didn’t call.

    My cliche is that every woman loves every guy she has had sex with. Either before, or after. So with more sex, there’s more rejection. I’ve spoken with a few woman who claim to be cavalier about sex; they’re not. There are wounds not healed.

    At 63 I am gobsmacked by the women who have shared with me their abortions. I told JY the women I know who have shared that information (about my age), and he was gobsmacked. I ran out of fingers without trying.

    JY’s opinion (which I’d never thought of) was that they were looking for absolution. Wanted me to share something that would make them feel better. He might be right. I don’t know.

    BUT, my daughter, at 31, has one friend who has had one abortion (that she knows of). Younger women are a lot more pro life, for a lot of reasons. One, they grew up with ultrasound pictures of siblings on the fridge. Two, having a baby out of wedlock is not ideal; also not a big deal. (disclosure: my oldest granddaughter was eight months old when her parents got married.) Three, it’s easier to not get pregnant. Four, blessings and gratitude to all the people who have fought the good fight for decades. Planned Parenthood built a clinic in my little town, and that was a Hell No. It never opened, thanks to a dedicated group who made it loud and clear they were not welcome.

    If it

    There’s a biochemical side to it too, apparently especially for women. If someone tells someone something personal/secret/embarrassing/whatever about themself, it releases endorphins (oxytocin for one) that makes the teller feel better and closer to the person they told, even if the person told couldn’t care less or maybe wasn’t even listening. But HEARING something personal, doesn’t make you feel closer. TELLING does. Kinda weird when you think about it, but it’s been proven. So not just emotional validation.

    Wow, I have never felt that. Another way in which I seem to differ from many other females. In fact, I feel somewhat diminished by “sharing” this.

    • #106
  17. Columbo Inactive
    Columbo
    @Columbo

    OmegaPaladin (View Comment):

    I think the Second Wave Feminism answer has a lot of weight to it. It’s a view of motherhood as living hell, of abject slavery in service of men and a tiny tyrant. Imagine you are required by law to take care of Joe Biden – change his diapers, make sure he is minimally embarrassing in public, dress him, watch him like a hawk because his actions are your responsibility. For this, you receive no pay, and you are expected to pay for all of the supplies.

    Motherhood is the one of the most intense responsibilities out there, and is about as far from freedom as possible. I wonder about their childhoods – did their mothers seem that miserable? It’s hard to imagine parenthood without love for the child.

    Sexual freedom is a huge part of this. The Left believes nothing should ever stop people from screwing. Add in how disruptive having kids is to your life plans, and you have a pretty solid reason to want abortion.

    @ henrycastaigne I think gets at why any restriction is treated as an attack. Abortion lets you exercise complete control over your body.

    • #107
  18. Columbo Inactive
    Columbo
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    Henry Castaigne (View Comment):

    kedavis (View Comment):

    Henry Castaigne (View Comment):

    Matthew Singer (View Comment):

    OmegaPaladin (View Comment):

    I think the Second Wave Feminism answer has a lot of weight to it. It’s a view of motherhood as living hell, of abject slavery in service of men and a tiny tyrant. Imagine you are required by law to take care of Joe Biden – change his diapers, make sure he is minimally embarrassing in public, dress him, watch him like a hawk because his actions are your responsibility. For this, you receive no pay, and you are expected to pay for all of the supplies.

    Motherhood is the one of the most intense responsibilities out there, and is about as far from freedom as possible. I wonder about their childhoods – did their mothers seem that miserable? It’s hard to imagine parenthood without love for the child.

    Sexual freedom is a huge part of this. The Left believes nothing should ever stop people from screwing. Add in how disruptive having kids is to your life plans, and you have a pretty solid reason to want abortion.

    @ henrycastaigne I think gets at why any restriction is treated as an attack. Abortion lets you exercise complete control over your body.

    OK, I’m a sexist and a male chauvinist but motherhood is what women literally exist for. To perpetuate the species as it were. God or Nature it the main purpose. (Donning asbestos armour)

    This is so but men were naturally made to rape and conquer foreigners. Nature sucks. We should try to move beyond our filthy ape nature.

    If men stop raping and conquering, civilization can still continue. Not so if women don’t have children.

    Fair point. But I think civilization will be fine if leftist ladies with blue hair don’t have children. Actually, I think it would be much improved.

    So far, so good. https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-10954353/Women-threaten-SEX-STRIKE-protest-SCOTUS-overturning-Roe-v-Wade.html

    • #108
  19. Henry Castaigne Member
    Henry Castaigne
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    Manny (View Comment):

    kedavis (View Comment):

    Henry Castaigne (View Comment):

    Matthew Singer (View Comment):

    OmegaPaladin (View Comment):

    I think the Second Wave Feminism answer has a lot of weight to it. It’s a view of motherhood as living hell, of abject slavery in service of men and a tiny tyrant. Imagine you are required by law to take care of Joe Biden – change his diapers, make sure he is minimally embarrassing in public, dress him, watch him like a hawk because his actions are your responsibility. For this, you receive no pay, and you are expected to pay for all of the supplies.

    Motherhood is the one of the most intense responsibilities out there, and is about as far from freedom as possible. I wonder about their childhoods – did their mothers seem that miserable? It’s hard to imagine parenthood without love for the child.

    Sexual freedom is a huge part of this. The Left believes nothing should ever stop people from screwing. Add in how disruptive having kids is to your life plans, and you have a pretty solid reason to want abortion.

    @ henrycastaigne I think gets at why any restriction is treated as an attack. Abortion lets you exercise complete control over your body.

    OK, I’m a sexist and a male chauvinist but motherhood is what women literally exist for. To perpetuate the species as it were. God or Nature it the main purpose. (Donning asbestos armour)

    This is so but men were naturally made to rape and conquer foreigners. Nature sucks. We should try to move beyond our filthy ape nature.

    If men stop raping and conquering, civilization can still continue. Not so if women don’t have children.

    And men weren’t made to rape and conquer. That’s from his perverse understanding of humanity.

    We are pretty close to chimps mate. It ain’t pretty but it’s True. 

    • #109
  20. BDB Inactive
    BDB
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    Henry Castaigne (View Comment):

    Manny (View Comment):

    kedavis (View Comment):

    Henry Castaigne (View Comment):

    Matthew Singer (View Comment):

    OmegaPaladin (View Comment):

    I think the Second Wave Feminism answer has a lot of weight to it. It’s a view of motherhood as living hell, of abject slavery in service of men and a tiny tyrant. Imagine you are required by law to take care of Joe Biden – change his diapers, make sure he is minimally embarrassing in public, dress him, watch him like a hawk because his actions are your responsibility. For this, you receive no pay, and you are expected to pay for all of the supplies.

    Motherhood is the one of the most intense responsibilities out there, and is about as far from freedom as possible. I wonder about their childhoods – did their mothers seem that miserable? It’s hard to imagine parenthood without love for the child.

    Sexual freedom is a huge part of this. The Left believes nothing should ever stop people from screwing. Add in how disruptive having kids is to your life plans, and you have a pretty solid reason to want abortion.

    @ henrycastaigne I think gets at why any restriction is treated as an attack. Abortion lets you exercise complete control over your body.

    OK, I’m a sexist and a male chauvinist but motherhood is what women literally exist for. To perpetuate the species as it were. God or Nature it the main purpose. (Donning asbestos armour)

    This is so but men were naturally made to rape and conquer foreigners. Nature sucks. We should try to move beyond our filthy ape nature.

    If men stop raping and conquering, civilization can still continue. Not so if women don’t have children.

    And men weren’t made to rape and conquer. That’s from his perverse understanding of humanity.

    We are pretty close to chimps mate. It ain’t pretty but it’s True.

    Closer to the mark to say that we are well-equipped to outcompete other self-reproducing systems.  Competition is for resources.  Not only territory and food are resources, but so are mating opportunities with healthy partners, and status (a proxy for and indicator of resources).  Creatures without a sex drive do not out-reproduce anything and go extinct, so as we are not extinct of course, we have a sex drive.  The sex drive does not shut down just because an individual creature is a loser and has been out-competed for other resources.  Broke, ugly, crazy, hungry, or low-status creatures do the risk/reward math differently because they are already losing.

     

    • #110
  21. Chris Hutchinson Coolidge
    Chris Hutchinson
    @chrishutch13

    Marjorie Reynolds (View Comment):

    Cassandro (View Comment):

    I wonder as the public elation the Irish had over the legalization of abortion. I don’t know, but I think it all stems from really good PR, which was further reinforced by playing to everyone’s need to fit in and not be shunned.

    There is also a cultivated ignorance from those who set themselves to shape public opinion, they preached to people who hadn’t had abortion for so long it was unknown and presented as a good thing, without the prevalence of personal experience in one’s family or social circle.

    I wasn’t there but it may have been like the manufactured excitement that precedes a circus coming to town, when no one has ever seen a circus, and no one knows exactly what a circus is, but its coming is promoted as a great thing, and everyone gets really excited when the train finally comes to town and they start putting up the big tents.

    It was horrendous Cassandro, I’ll never forget it. There is a fury in the country against the Catholic Church and it focused all its destructive power against the rights of the unborn child. It’s an injustice of immense proportions.
    I lost some friends back then and one of them sent me a very bitter letter in response to one from me which mentioned the Dublin Castle celebrations specifically. I kept it, as a sort of artefact, even though I found it too painful to read since.

    I lost my best friend of 17 years, who’s Irish, to the issue of abortion. We were always as different as could be politically but were always able to discuss without any problems, including on abortion. We actually continued being able to remain friends during the referendum time as well as the first round of the “czarny protest” strikes in 2016 here in Poland. He was a bit more extreme after the referendum though and by the time of the second wave of “czarny protest” strikes in Oct 2020 I guess he was unable to tolerate my beliefs. I wondered if the Covid lockdowns had something to do with it. We met up regularly before but then went about six months with no face-to-face contact. The exchange we had when he stopped talking to me was via WhatsApp. 

    • #111
  22. Western Chauvinist Member
    Western Chauvinist
    @WesternChauvinist

    Chris Hutchinson (View Comment):
    I lost my best friend of 17 years, who’s Irish, to the issue of abortion.

    Heartbreaking, Chris.

    • #112
  23. Chris Hutchinson Coolidge
    Chris Hutchinson
    @chrishutch13

    Western Chauvinist (View Comment):

    Chris Hutchinson (View Comment):
    I lost my best friend of 17 years, who’s Irish, to the issue of abortion.

    Heartbreaking, Chris.

    Yep, very sad. After all of the conversations over the years on so many topics I was not expecting it. 

    • #113
  24. Full Size Tabby Member
    Full Size Tabby
    @FullSizeTabby

    Chris Hutchinson (View Comment):
    I wondered if the Covid lockdowns had something to do with it. We met up regularly before but then went about six months with no face-to-face contact.

    I do think the transition over the last several years to much more on-line contact and much less face-to-face contact among people (and especially the Covid-related push to isolate from each other of the last 2.5 years) has negatively affected our ability to disagree agreeably, which effect is probably even more pronounced on abortion, a topic on which agreeable disagreement was already difficult. 

    • #114
  25. kedavis Coolidge
    kedavis
    @kedavis

    Podkayne of Israel (View Comment):

    kedavis (View Comment):

    Annefy (View Comment):

    Jim McConnell (View Comment):

    CACrabtree (View Comment):

    Yes, they burned down Portland again last night, even though Oregon is one of the most leftist, pro-abortion states. Its just a reflex reaction, and they are always “angry.” Must be a miserable way to live.

    The anger is looking for an outlet. But why are they angry? There’s a different answer for every person. Daddy issues is a big one (even I don’t have enough guts to say that to their face). A lot of them are angry at the guy who didn’t call.

    My cliche is that every woman loves every guy she has had sex with. Either before, or after. So with more sex, there’s more rejection. I’ve spoken with a few woman who claim to be cavalier about sex; they’re not. There are wounds not healed.

    At 63 I am gobsmacked by the women who have shared with me their abortions. I told JY the women I know who have shared that information (about my age), and he was gobsmacked. I ran out of fingers without trying.

    JY’s opinion (which I’d never thought of) was that they were looking for absolution. Wanted me to share something that would make them feel better. He might be right. I don’t know.

    BUT, my daughter, at 31, has one friend who has had one abortion (that she knows of). Younger women are a lot more pro life, for a lot of reasons. One, they grew up with ultrasound pictures of siblings on the fridge. Two, having a baby out of wedlock is not ideal; also not a big deal. (disclosure: my oldest granddaughter was eight months old when her parents got married.) Three, it’s easier to not get pregnant. Four, blessings and gratitude to all the people who have fought the good fight for decades. Planned Parenthood built a clinic in my little town, and that was a Hell No. It never opened, thanks to a dedicated group who made it loud and clear they were not welcome.

    If it

    There’s a biochemical side to it too, apparently especially for women. If someone tells someone something personal/secret/embarrassing/whatever about themself, it releases endorphins (oxytocin for one) that makes the teller feel better and closer to the person they told, even if the person told couldn’t care less or maybe wasn’t even listening. But HEARING something personal, doesn’t make you feel closer. TELLING does. Kinda weird when you think about it, but it’s been proven. So not just emotional validation.

    Wow, I have never felt that. Another way in which I seem to differ from many other females. In fact, I feel somewhat diminished by “sharing” this.

    It may not be something that women are consciously aware of.  But it could also, for example, help to explain the attraction of gossip.

    • #115
  26. CuriousKevmo Inactive
    CuriousKevmo
    @CuriousKevmo

    This reminds me of the George Carlin bit: “Ever notice that the women most fervently pro-abortion are women you wouldn’t want to $%#* anyway?”

     

    • #116
  27. kedavis Coolidge
    kedavis
    @kedavis

    CuriousKevmo (View Comment):

    This reminds me of the George Carlin bit: “Ever notice that the women most fervently pro-abortion are women you wouldn’t want to $%#* anyway?”

     

    The same kind of thing seems to apply to nudist camps/”colonies,” nude beaches, etc.

    • #117
  28. Manny Coolidge
    Manny
    @Manny

    Henry Castaigne (View Comment):

    Manny (View Comment):

    kedavis (View Comment):

    Henry Castaigne (View Comment):

    Matthew Singer (View Comment):

    OmegaPaladin (View Comment):

    I think the Second Wave Feminism answer has a lot of weight to it. It’s a view of motherhood as living hell, of abject slavery in service of men and a tiny tyrant. Imagine you are required by law to take care of Joe Biden – change his diapers, make sure he is minimally embarrassing in public, dress him, watch him like a hawk because his actions are your responsibility. For this, you receive no pay, and you are expected to pay for all of the supplies.

    Motherhood is the one of the most intense responsibilities out there, and is about as far from freedom as possible. I wonder about their childhoods – did their mothers seem that miserable? It’s hard to imagine parenthood without love for the child.

    Sexual freedom is a huge part of this. The Left believes nothing should ever stop people from screwing. Add in how disruptive having kids is to your life plans, and you have a pretty solid reason to want abortion.

    @ henrycastaigne I think gets at why any restriction is treated as an attack. Abortion lets you exercise complete control over your body.

    OK, I’m a sexist and a male chauvinist but motherhood is what women literally exist for. To perpetuate the species as it were. God or Nature it the main purpose. (Donning asbestos armour)

    This is so but men were naturally made to rape and conquer foreigners. Nature sucks. We should try to move beyond our filthy ape nature.

    If men stop raping and conquering, civilization can still continue. Not so if women don’t have children.

    And men weren’t made to rape and conquer. That’s from his perverse understanding of humanity.

    We are pretty close to chimps mate. It ain’t pretty but it’s True.

    You maybe, but not me.  

    • #118
  29. BDB Inactive
    BDB
    @BDB

    Manny (View Comment):

    Henry Castaigne (View Comment):

    Manny (View Comment):

    kedavis (View Comment):

    Henry Castaigne (View Comment):

    Matthew Singer (View Comment):

    OmegaPaladin (View Comment):

    I think the Second Wave Feminism answer has a lot of weight to it. It’s a view of motherhood as living hell, of abject slavery in service of men and a tiny tyrant. Imagine you are required by law to take care of Joe Biden – change his diapers, make sure he is minimally embarrassing in public, dress him, watch him like a hawk because his actions are your responsibility. For this, you receive no pay, and you are expected to pay for all of the supplies.

    Motherhood is the one of the most intense responsibilities out there, and is about as far from freedom as possible. I wonder about their childhoods – did their mothers seem that miserable? It’s hard to imagine parenthood without love for the child.

    Sexual freedom is a huge part of this. The Left believes nothing should ever stop people from screwing. Add in how disruptive having kids is to your life plans, and you have a pretty solid reason to want abortion.

    @ henrycastaigne I think gets at why any restriction is treated as an attack. Abortion lets you exercise complete control over your body.

    OK, I’m a sexist and a male chauvinist but motherhood is what women literally exist for. To perpetuate the species as it were. God or Nature it the main purpose. (Donning asbestos armour)

    This is so but men were naturally made to rape and conquer foreigners. Nature sucks. We should try to move beyond our filthy ape nature.

    If men stop raping and conquering, civilization can still continue. Not so if women don’t have children.

    And men weren’t made to rape and conquer. That’s from his perverse understanding of humanity.

    We are pretty close to chimps mate. It ain’t pretty but it’s True.

    You maybe, but not me.

    Religion has a refutation and an explanation for science, but… science also has an explanation for religion, and need not bother with refutation.  That said, I agree that HC has mis-stated the case.

    • #119
  30. Cassandro Coolidge
    Cassandro
    @Flicker

    BDB (View Comment):

    Manny (View Comment):

    Henry Castaigne (View Comment):

    Manny (View Comment):

    kedavis (View Comment):

    Henry Castaigne (View Comment):

    Matthew Singer (View Comment):

    OmegaPaladin (View Comment):

    I think the Second Wave Feminism answer has a lot of weight to it. It’s a view of motherhood as living hell, of abject slavery in service of men and a tiny tyrant. Imagine you are required by law to take care of Joe Biden – change his diapers, make sure he is minimally embarrassing in public, dress him, watch him like a hawk because his actions are your responsibility. For this, you receive no pay, and you are expected to pay for all of the supplies.

    Motherhood is the one of the most intense responsibilities out there, and is about as far from freedom as possible. I wonder about their childhoods – did their mothers seem that miserable? It’s hard to imagine parenthood without love for the child.

    Sexual freedom is a huge part of this. The Left believes nothing should ever stop people from screwing. Add in how disruptive having kids is to your life plans, and you have a pretty solid reason to want abortion.

    @ henrycastaigne I think gets at why any restriction is treated as an attack. Abortion lets you exercise complete control over your body.

    OK, I’m a sexist and a male chauvinist but motherhood is what women literally exist for. To perpetuate the species as it were. God or Nature it the main purpose. (Donning asbestos armour)

    This is so but men were naturally made to rape and conquer foreigners. Nature sucks. We should try to move beyond our filthy ape nature.

    If men stop raping and conquering, civilization can still continue. Not so if women don’t have children.

    And men weren’t made to rape and conquer. That’s from his perverse understanding of humanity.

    We are pretty close to chimps mate. It ain’t pretty but it’s True.

    You maybe, but not me.

    Religion has a refutation and an explanation for science, but… science also has an explanation for religion, and need not bother with refutation. That said, I agree that HC has mis-stated the case.

    Really?  What explanation does science have for religion that isn’t all just concocted musings and imaginings and “sounds good” atheistic theories?

    Saying “it makes sense” built up upon an atheistic bias is not science.  Are you talking about the “god particle”, or the “religion center” of the brain, or archeological digs, or just the Just-So-Story “evidences” presented by evolutionary psychology.

    • #120
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