Alternative Medicine and Human Nature

 

I’ve long been fascinated by alternative medicine. I’ve also been fascinated by the fact that there are no alternative dentists. Regardless, I’ve noted that most people who are interested in alternative medicine tend to be (a) those who find their diseases to be non-threatening, or (b) those who find their situation to be utterly hopeless. Those in between, those who have a disease that is threatening, but potentially fixable – those people want a real doctor who is using modern treatments with placebo-controlled data proving their effectiveness. Groups (a) and (b), however, are often comfortable with therapies with no research supporting their use, and are unconcerned with the consequences of untested treatments, because they are either completely secure or utterly hopeless.

If you’re perfectly healthy, you might take an herbal supplement to “support good prostate health”, with packaging that makes vague claims about “holistic balance” or some such.  Why not, right?  But if you develop prostate cancer, you don’t want to die a slow painful death from metastatic disease, so you want the latest chemotherapy, and you want to know precisely how effective it is, and exactly what percentage of patients experience side effects.  If the chemotherapy fails, and the cancer spreads all over your body, and your doctor tells you that further treatments are not worth the risk, then you’re back to herbal supplements which make vague claims.  I’ve seen this progression for years.  And it sort of makes sense, if you don’t understand statistics but you do understand human nature.

I think there are parallels in politics.  Many wealthy people vote Democrat, because they think their wealth and social standing insulate them from the consequences of leftist policies.  And the very poor often vote Democrat, because they have no hope for a better tomorrow, and if they can get some extra cash through some government program, then great.  They don’t care about the consequences of leftist policies, either.  That leaves the people in between – the middle class, essentially – who are trying to build better lives for their families, and who care very much about the consequences of leftist policies.

The difference, of course, is the nature of those consequences.  Also, of course, their scale.

If a healthy person takes an herbal supplement to “support good prostate health” and it has no impact on anything, who cares?  They were healthy before, they’re healthy afterward, and they’re just out a few bucks.  Even if it causes a side effect, it affects only that one person.  They tried a treatment with no proven record of success because they didn’t care about the consequences (because they were healthy).  They’re still healthy now.  So no big deal.

But if enough people vote Democrat because they don’t care about the consequences of leftist policies for whatever reasons, then everyone – and I mean everyone – suffers.  It affects all of American society and much of the world.  It’s a big deal.

When you’re making decisions about your health, you should study your options, and consider only solid data from reputable sources in your decision making.

When you’re making decisions about the health of our nation, you should do the same thing.

Some people do – those who think that the problems we face are threatening, but potentially fixable.

Others are unconcerned with the consequences of therapies with no data supporting their use.  Like leftist policies, for example.

In medicine and in politics, those who feel completely secure and those who feel utterly hopeless tend to be less concerned with long-term consequences.  Which can lead them to make careless, even dangerous, decisions.

I hope that as the consequences of leftist policies come into clearer focus during the Biden administration, more people will realize that the problems facing us are threatening, but potentially fixable.

Then, and only then, those people will become concerned about the consequences of the leftist policies they have supported in the past.

Then, and only then, those people will put more effort into avoiding careless, even dangerous, decisions.

Then, and only then, things can change.

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There are 48 comments.

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  1. Dr. Bastiat Member
    Dr. Bastiat
    @drbastiat

    Flicker (View Comment):

    Roderic (View Comment):

    Dr. Bastiat: I’ve long been fascinated by alternative medicine.

    “Alternative medicine” is an alternative name for “medicines not proven to be effective.”

    And pharmaceuticals are medicines that have not yet been proven to kill you. Now where’s my so very benign Propulsid.

    Both alternative medicines and pharmaceutical medicines have risks.

    The difference is, pharmaceutical medicines also have benefits.

    Carefully researched, reproducible, consistent, measurable benefits over placebo.

    But yes, of course there are risks either way.  I earn a living by assessing the risk / benefit ratio for various diseases and treatments.  It’s complicated.

    • #31
  2. Dr. Bastiat Member
    Dr. Bastiat
    @drbastiat

    I didn’t want to use alternative medicine to illustrate my point, because I didn’t want this thread to turn into arguments about Merck or turmeric or whatever.  That’s not what the post was about.

    I was simply trying to point out that the only way I saw to get people to make sensible decisions is to make sure that they are invested in the outcome, and that they see our problems as fixable and not hopeless.  That’s all.

    Let’s argue about homeopathy on another thread.

    Thanks.

    • #32
  3. Raxxalan Member
    Raxxalan
    @Raxxalan

    Dr. Bastiat (View Comment):

    Flicker (View Comment):

    Roderic (View Comment):

    Dr. Bastiat: I’ve long been fascinated by alternative medicine.

    “Alternative medicine” is an alternative name for “medicines not proven to be effective.”

    And pharmaceuticals are medicines that have not yet been proven to kill you. Now where’s my so very benign Propulsid.

    Both alternative medicines and pharmaceutical medicines have risks.

    The difference is, pharmaceutical medicines also have benefits.

    Carefully researched, reproducible, consistent, measurable benefits over placebo.

    But yes, of course there are risks either way. I earn a living by assessing the risk / benefit ratio for various diseases and treatments. It’s complicated.

    @drbastiat What is your opinion about that state of medical journal’s credibility in light of some of the accusations that they downplayed the risks and played up the benefits of the vaccines at the behest of the pharmaceutical companies.   It has shaken my some of my faith in those institutions previously published studies as well.  Do you think there is something there or is it smoke without fire?

     

    • #33
  4. Justin Other Lawyer Coolidge
    Justin Other Lawyer
    @DouglasMyers

    Dr. Bastiat (View Comment):

    I didn’t want to use alternative medicine to illustrate my point, because I didn’t want this thread to turn into arguments about Merck or turmeric or whatever. That’s not what the post was about.

    I was simply trying to point out that the only way I saw to get people to make sensible decisions is to make sure that they are invested in the outcome, and that they see our problems as fixable and not hopeless. That’s all.

    Let’s argue about homeopathy on another thread.

    Thanks.

    I’m sorry. I contributed to that rabbit trail. Thanks for the kind admonition.

    • #34
  5. Dr. Bastiat Member
    Dr. Bastiat
    @drbastiat

    Justin Other Lawyer (View Comment):

    Dr. Bastiat (View Comment):

    I didn’t want to use alternative medicine to illustrate my point, because I didn’t want this thread to turn into arguments about Merck or turmeric or whatever. That’s not what the post was about.

    I was simply trying to point out that the only way I saw to get people to make sensible decisions is to make sure that they are invested in the outcome, and that they see our problems as fixable and not hopeless. That’s all.

    Let’s argue about homeopathy on another thread.

    Thanks.

    I’m sorry. I contributed to that rabbit trail. Thanks for the kind admonition.

    No problem at all.  Wandering down rabbit trails is part of what makes Ricochet so fun.

    But this is a heavily worn trail, which I’d rather avoid repeating, again, in this case.  

    I’d rather discuss how to get Americans engaged, and making more careful decisions.

    Thanks!

    • #35
  6. Henry Castaigne Member
    Henry Castaigne
    @HenryCastaigne

    Dr. Bastiat (View Comment):

    I didn’t want to use alternative medicine to illustrate my point, because I didn’t want this thread to turn into arguments about Merck or turmeric or whatever. That’s not what the post was about.

    I was simply trying to point out that the only way I saw to get people to make sensible decisions is to make sure that they are invested in the outcome, and that they see our problems as fixable and not hopeless. That’s all.

    Let’s argue about homeopathy on another thread.

    Thanks.

    We are not made in the image of G-d. We are superstitious apes and only a genetically superior minority can be persuaded by evidence. This is why Christianity and Buddhism are such great religions. They absorb our foul human irrationality like a sponge like a sponge absorbing mosquito infected water. 

    I think more people need to die from alternative medicine before we ape spawn can learn anything.

    • #36
  7. Henry Castaigne Member
    Henry Castaigne
    @HenryCastaigne

    Dr. Bastiat (View Comment):

    Justin Other Lawyer (View Comment):

    Dr. Bastiat (View Comment):

    I didn’t want to use alternative medicine to illustrate my point, because I didn’t want this thread to turn into arguments about Merck or turmeric or whatever. That’s not what the post was about.

    I was simply trying to point out that the only way I saw to get people to make sensible decisions is to make sure that they are invested in the outcome, and that they see our problems as fixable and not hopeless. That’s all.

    Let’s argue about homeopathy on another thread.

    Thanks.

    I’m sorry. I contributed to that rabbit trail. Thanks for the kind admonition.

    No problem at all. Wandering down rabbit trails is part of what makes Ricochet so fun.

    But this is a heavily worn trail, which I’d rather avoid repeating, again, in this case.

    I’d rather discuss how to get Americans engaged, and making more careful decisions.

    Thanks!

    We should make people take a basic test before voting and we should praise Truth and excellence rather than democracy and the common man.

    • #37
  8. TBA Coolidge
    TBA
    @RobtGilsdorf

    Justin Other Lawyer (View Comment):

    Dr. Bastiat (View Comment):

    I didn’t want to use alternative medicine to illustrate my point, because I didn’t want this thread to turn into arguments about Merck or turmeric or whatever. That’s not what the post was about.

    I was simply trying to point out that the only way I saw to get people to make sensible decisions is to make sure that they are invested in the outcome, and that they see our problems as fixable and not hopeless. That’s all.

    Let’s argue about homeopathy on another thread.

    Thanks.

    I’m sorry. I contributed to that rabbit trail. Thanks for the kind admonition.

    @metoo

    • #38
  9. Justin Other Lawyer Coolidge
    Justin Other Lawyer
    @DouglasMyers

    TBA (View Comment):

    Justin Other Lawyer (View Comment):

    Dr. Bastiat (View Comment):

    I didn’t want to use alternative medicine to illustrate my point, because I didn’t want this thread to turn into arguments about Merck or turmeric or whatever. That’s not what the post was about.

    I was simply trying to point out that the only way I saw to get people to make sensible decisions is to make sure that they are invested in the outcome, and that they see our problems as fixable and not hopeless. That’s all.

    Let’s argue about homeopathy on another thread.

    Thanks.

    I’m sorry. I contributed to that rabbit trail. Thanks for the kind admonition.

    @ metoo

    Ha!  But we all know it’s #metoo.  Perhaps we can derail this thing on the other side of the tracks now.

    • #39
  10. TBA Coolidge
    TBA
    @RobtGilsdorf

    Justin Other Lawyer (View Comment):

    TBA (View Comment):

    Justin Other Lawyer (View Comment):

    Dr. Bastiat (View Comment):

    I didn’t want to use alternative medicine to illustrate my point, because I didn’t want this thread to turn into arguments about Merck or turmeric or whatever. That’s not what the post was about.

    I was simply trying to point out that the only way I saw to get people to make sensible decisions is to make sure that they are invested in the outcome, and that they see our problems as fixable and not hopeless. That’s all.

    Let’s argue about homeopathy on another thread.

    Thanks.

    I’m sorry. I contributed to that rabbit trail. Thanks for the kind admonition.

    @ metoo

    Ha! But we all know it’s #metoo. Perhaps we can derail this thing on the other side of the tracks now.

    opps. 

    • #40
  11. David Foster Member
    David Foster
    @DavidFoster

    Henry Castaigne (View Comment):
    We should make people take a basic test before voting and we should praise Truth and excellence rather than democracy and the common man.

    Who would design the test?  At the present time, I’m pretty sure that it would be carefully designed to weed out the maximum number of Deplorables.

    • #41
  12. Jim McConnell Member
    Jim McConnell
    @JimMcConnell

    Flicker (View Comment):

    Roderic (View Comment):

    Dr. Bastiat: I’ve long been fascinated by alternative medicine.

    “Alternative medicine” is an alternative name for “medicines not proven to be effective.”

    And pharmaceuticals are medicines that have not yet been proven to kill you. Now where’s my so very benign Propulsid.

    @Flicker, you made me look it up:

    Propulsid warnings: Serious cardiac arrhythmias including ventricular tachycardia, ventricular fibrillation, torsades de pointes, and QT prolongation have been reported in patients taking cisapride. Many of these patients also took drugs expected to increase cisapride blood levels by inhibiting the cytochrome P450 3A4 enzymes that metabolize cisapride. These drugs include clarithromycin, erythromycin, troleandomycin, nefazodone, fluconazole, itraconazole, ketoconazole, indinavir, and ritonavir. Some of these events have been fatal. 

    • #42
  13. Henry Castaigne Member
    Henry Castaigne
    @HenryCastaigne

    David Foster (View Comment):

    Henry Castaigne (View Comment):
    We should make people take a basic test before voting and we should praise Truth and excellence rather than democracy and the common man.

    Who would design the test? At the present time, I’m pretty sure that it would be carefully designed to weed out the maximum number of Deplorables.

    It would have to be a very simple test to avoid anybody slanting it one way or another.

    However, to return to the original question, I think we need to create a more honest and trustworthy to squelch conspiracy theories. Fauci absolutely made everything worse by being super political about everything and getting into fights with Ron Paul. Drug companies need to be more transparent.

    But honestly, I think folks are just superstitious.

    • #43
  14. TBA Coolidge
    TBA
    @RobtGilsdorf

    https://www.treeoflogic.com/literacy_test.htm

     

    • #44
  15. Flicker Coolidge
    Flicker
    @Flicker

    Dr. Bastiat (View Comment):

    Flicker (View Comment):

    Roderic (View Comment):

    Dr. Bastiat: I’ve long been fascinated by alternative medicine.

    “Alternative medicine” is an alternative name for “medicines not proven to be effective.”

    And pharmaceuticals are medicines that have not yet been proven to kill you. Now where’s my so very benign Propulsid.

    Both alternative medicines and pharmaceutical medicines have risks.

    The difference is, pharmaceutical medicines also have benefits.

    Carefully researched, reproducible, consistent, measurable benefits over placebo.

    But yes, of course there are risks either way. I earn a living by assessing the risk / benefit ratio for various diseases and treatments. It’s complicated.

    Green tea has been pretty well researched; not by US companies, but by Japanese.  By your definition is it a medicine or an alternative medicine?  The complication is in the nomenclature.  And statistical studies can be very wrong in their conclusions.  That’s why it was pulled.

    And still Propulsid (as just one example) was sold, with the reputation of scientific research and approval behind it, as a positive in its risk/benefit to patients.  But it clearly wasn’t.

    • #45
  16. DaveSchmidt Coolidge
    DaveSchmidt
    @DaveSchmidt

    David Foster (View Comment):

    Henry Castaigne (View Comment):
    We should make people take a basic test before voting and we should praise Truth and excellence rather than democracy and the common man.

    Who would design the test? At the present time, I’m pretty sure that it would be carefully designed to weed out the maximum number of Deplorables.

    Unless it has been corrupted by the woke, I think the US citizen exam might be a place to start.

    • #46
  17. Henry Castaigne Member
    Henry Castaigne
    @HenryCastaigne

    DaveSchmidt (View Comment):

    David Foster (View Comment):

    Henry Castaigne (View Comment):
    We should make people take a basic test before voting and we should praise Truth and excellence rather than democracy and the common man.

    Who would design the test? At the present time, I’m pretty sure that it would be carefully designed to weed out the maximum number of Deplorables.

    Unless it has been corrupted by the woke, I think the US citizen exam might be a place to start.

    I like that one.

    • #47
  18. Henry Castaigne Member
    Henry Castaigne
    @HenryCastaigne

    Dr. Bastiat: Others are unconcerned with the consequences of therapies with no data supporting their use.

    “Humans just live short, boring, insignificant lives, so they make up stories to feel like they’re a part of something bigger. They want to blame all the world’s problems on some single enemy they can fight, instead of a complex network of interrelated forces beyond anyone’s control.” — Pearl

    • #48
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