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Let’s Talk ‘Treason’
Treason is one of the few crimes specifically mentioned in our Constitution. And the courts have been very specific in what constitutes the offense. In Cramer v US the 5-4 majority declared:
A citizen intellectually or emotionally may favor the enemy and harbor sympathies or convictions disloyal to this country’s policy or interest, but, so long as he commits no act of aid and comfort to the enemy, there is no treason. On the other hand, a citizen may take actions which do aid and comfort the enemy—making a speech critical of the government or opposing its measures, profiteering, striking in defense plants or essential work, and the hundred other things which impair our cohesion and diminish our strength—but if there is no adherence to the enemy in this, if there is no intent to betray, there is no treason.
And that was written in 1945 when the United States was operating under the last full-blown Congressional declaration of war. Today a sitting United States senator accused a former Congresswoman and current Lt. Colonel of the United States Army Reserve of treason. And people cheered.
I hold no special regard for Ms. Gabbard. She’s a Democrat and I think some of her ideas are absurd. But I have no need to insist that any policy difference I have with her meets any definition of “treason,” let alone the Constitutional one.
And while I also hate the “chicken hawk” trope, the end of the military draft in this country has created a huge divide where those who rattle the loudest sabers and advocate for war are the ones whose children are the most unlikely to be asked to bear the burden.
The Romneys are an especially large family and an “Army of None.” Daddy George, who was 34 at the time of Pearl Harbor, didn’t enlist. Mittens got four deferments during Vietnam. Older brother Scott avoided it, too. None of his children have served.
Nor has his peanut gallery of supporters. (As an aside I will give the Kristol family props here. Bill’s son Joe was a USMC infantry officer in Afghanistan from September 2010 to April 2011.) It’s only us lowly “proles” who offer up our children for their hubris. And I’m sick of it.
I’m also sick of politicians who tell me Ukraine’s borders are inviolable to the tune of $13.6B but not a dime for our own southern border. In 2016 Jimmy Carter’s pollster, Patrick Caddell, declared that the United States was in a “pre-revolutionary” state. If someone doesn’t get their act together soon the revolution will come. And it won’t be pretty. Then we can talk about the real meaning of treason.
Published in General
You evidently see the world in terms of unlimited resources. There are far better expenditures of public funds than Ukraine. And the point about the southern border is entirely germaine since so many Republican and Democrat congresscritters think the Ukraine invasion is so much more important than our southern border. I thought it was disgusting when so many said congresscritters showed up at the State of the Union with Ukrainian flags on their lapels and not American flags. At least we know where their priorities lie.
Nope. Absolutely not. They’re cowards. People like the Romneys want all the glory and the power without any of the risk.
And while in college, Mitt protested against anti-war protesters and then flip-flopped after his father’s infamous “brainwashing” remark.
@Britanicus Saying we have no dog in this fight is not pro-Russian. Was Switzerland pro-Hitler because they remained neutral?
Well, Ukraine is where so much of their money lies.
Mitt Romney’s hair is fantastic.
Too kind.
Although if he was in a sissy cage match, I’d bet on the….ring announcer.
It is remarkable. Usually, Mitt only makes intemperate, over the top attacks on Republicans.
Don’t worry everyone. PBS Frontline is on the case:
The cutting edge of DowDuPont material science.
My comments:
Tulsi may have taken some out there positions left of center here or there but quite often she is dead on as she is here. Exactly what are those BioWeapons labs doing in Ukraine anyway? Pierre Delecto is a Commie Democrat fellow traveler through and through and will stop at nothing to disparage and injure the true patriots of this country. He is absolutely disgusting.
I tire of hearing how corrupt the Ukraine was or is, as some sort of excuse why we should not be involved. The CIA, the State Dept. and the Left wing of the Commie Democrat Party have controlled much of the workings in Ukraine for more than 20 years and that is a fact. With such huge baggage, and with the Clintons, Kerrys, Nulands ,Bidens and many of the most powerful of the CIA/State Dept plundering the country , what would you expect?
Despite whatever schemes Biden, our State Dept, our CIA and our Military are playing, the Ukrainian people deserve our support because no people should be thrashed the way Putin is thrashing them now, and unfortunately even though we may despise them, it was our government officials in the Clinton, Bush, Obama and Biden Administrations who are greatly responsible for putting them in this mess.
Read some of his columns about Cuban dissidents. Read his books, Peace they Say and Children of Monsters. Yes, Mr Nordlinger was and is a firm never-Trumper, only marginally less bad than Mona, that’s true; but people can disagree with things we hold dear and still have their virtues.
You can’t see what’s in another man’s heart and we should not dismiss those who fail to agree with us on everything. Nordlinger’s commitment to freedom is longstanding and deep, and I admire him for it even as I am aghast at the man’s attitude to Mr Trump.
There are many voices to be heard.
I don’t know which posts and comments you’re seeing, so I would not venture to guess. I might place a over/under bet on the numbers, but I’d want to know who is doing the counting.
Intemperate? Intemperate? My understanding that being found guilty of treason is a capital offense.
You excuse Mitten’s comments as merely “intemperate” (emotion and all that, good boy) but over react to EJ comments as “ad hominen”.
Quelle horreur
Edited to add: Mitt did not serve. None of his five sons have served. Tulsi Gabbard has served for 20 years. Yet he can call her treasonous and it be written off as “emotion”. Spare me.
Define “support “. Lapel pins? Tweets? Instagram post?
It appears to me there’s a lot of fingers in the Ukraine pie. And the good Lord knows the good people of Ukraine don’t deserve to pay the price.
So … who is to pay the price ? It won’t be the children of Bush, Clinton, Obama, and Biden.
Somewhere between those two extremes. The Ukrainians are willing to do the fighting. We can supply them with weapons with which to defend themselves. (We’ve already been doing that, but should perhaps do more.)
God love them and I’m praying for them.
Define “more”.
This was so well said it gave me pause.
BUT. His tweet throwing Nick Sandman under the bus really gave me pause. Too enthusiastic.
I don’t think you’re looking for a definition. I think you’re asking how much more. I think there is room for debate and deliberation on that point. For example, supplying Ukraine with fighter jets would have to be done very carefully, accompanied by careful communication. I’m not sure the Biden administration is capable of it. I’m pretty sure I’m not capable of it. Donald Trump might be.
One thing, though, is that I don’t think we should be ruling things out in a way that provides Putin with a comfort zone or license to kill.
Feck is on back order. Supply chain issues.
This defense is becoming tedious. Pointing out Ukraine corruption and criticizing our own government’s corrupt involvement with Ukraine should not be construed as support for Putin/Russia. Does everyone struggle with nuanced discussions these days? Are only polar positions allowed?
We are dealing with a lesser of two evils in this instance. Maybe three evils if you consider our government’s inept involvement. I know. I know. Now I can be accused of treason.
Have we learned nothing over the last three or so years? That our western leaders are capable of monstrosities they consider ‘for the overall good’? Nah…let’s just give the ‘ole USA leaders a pass. Their intentions are pure. They’ve gotten so much right over the last decade. Let freedom ring! Geez Louise.
Condemnation of Putin’s actions seems to be nearly universal. As does adulation for Ukraine’s response to fight for their independence. These two observations should not preclude any necessary criticisms and analysis of other entities and forces in play. And yes, that includes America’s motivations (i.e. their leaders – here’s looking at you Biden and Romney) as well as Ukraine’s.
To me, Tulsi Gabbard clearly has the better side of the argument. But the bigger picture here is about biological research laboratories funded by the United States. Why is the United States funding any biological research lab anywhere else other than inside the United States? The lessons of the Wuhan lab and the Ukraine lab accusations should be clear. All United States funding of biological labs, weapons or otherwise, should be within the United States where we have some opportunity to control the quality and safety.
It doesn’t matter if we cross our Ts and dot our I’s properly so that we’re not “technically” in a direct confrontation with Russia when we lend assistance. What matters is what Putin thinks about it. And if he sees us helping, he’s not going to consult Document 5.46, § 32.3, subsection 24, entry 7: Does this count as making war against Russia? and adjudicate a ruling. Nope. That doesn’t count. I guess we have to mark them as not part of this. He’s just going to make his own judgment. And if he’s as crazy/nuts as some people think he is — and especially if he’s feeling cornered — why not just blow everything to hell?
We’re dashing into this headlong, as if hot war with Russia is inevitable. Will cooler heads prevail?
I don’t see any cooler heads.
Whatever they’re doing is likely outlawed here. The sorts of things they were doing in Wuhan were outlawed under Obama, if I recall. Which is exactly why Fauci and Collins moved it to China.
And it’s also why Fauci and Collins must be made to pay for their crimes.
This is the scenario I’ve been thinking about, in connection to the demands of some that we enforce a no-fly zone over Ukraine. So, we go in and we find out that our planes are as much better than theirs as we believe and start knocking his planes down at will. Putin, realizing that his planes are outclassed, and not wanting to lose any more of them, fires a tactical nuke and takes out one of our aircraft carrier battle fleets in the Pacific. 12-15 ships, more than 50 aircraft, about 7000-8000 sailors, and tens of billions in equipment. What are we going to do about it? Nuke Moscow? If we do, they nuke everything, we nuke everything, and everyone dies. And we can’t complain about him doing it; that carrier group is an entirely legitimate military target that can be destroyed with virtually no collateral damage. I would expect our hands to be fairly well tied, particularly as we remember that we have 11 more of those to lose.
Put that together with your point about the perception of being at war. Shooting down his planes would clearly be an act of war. But we also have to worry about what else he considers the same.
I could quibble but I won’t. I’m basically on the same page.
ADD to this misery the fact that even the best ideas will be so badly mismanaged by this leaderless, clueless, America-hating administration that it is all moot. We DARE not try anything more than banking and the post office in this war — we will get it wrong.
#BlackPill
I am afraid my own dark heart is hovering in this zone, also. I am suspicious whenever too many people (media, politicians, corporations) line up on the same side; doubly so when their condemnation of those who disagree is so disproportionate (treason?)
Actually, after witnessing behavior for the past two years, suspicion is now fear.
Then consider BDB’s point – and realize that whatever we do we will do poorly. And IMO probably for the wrong reasons. And while this has been a pattern for the past 20+ years, consider that at no point has the Biden administration acted in such a way to show it feels any responsibility towards the people of America.
#blackpill Indeed.
Yeah, its never been an NTs hatred of Trump that bothered me (I was an extremely reluctant Trump voter who almost sat out 2016 in despair and disgust), its their willingness to advance progressive villianizations of his supporters (and supposed supporters).
Precisely. Is there a more loathsome cadre of people pushing for a shooting war with Russia? I want the Ukrainian people to be free. Hell, I want my fellow Red Staters to be free of control by Blue Staters. But our “leaders” are truly unsupportable.
I wish we had found a way to send the MiGs. I think we needed to push back on Putin somewhat because he is going to keep going once this is over and if he thinks he can push us against the wall he will. That having been said I do agree that this present administration is completely incompetent so perhaps it is for the best they are spineless as well. I am not sure if that is makes war more or less likely. It seems like American weakness is pretty provocative, much more so than American strength.
I am not there yet but I am certainly starting down the #blackpill path.