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Point to Ponder on Russia and Ukraine
Glenn Greenwald is a lefty, but lately he has been far more cogent in his analyses of events than “conservatives” like George Will, David Brooks, or David French.
By the way, is it at all notable that Crimea became part of Russia during the Obama administration, and now Russia is supposedly preparing to invade Ukraine during the Biden administration, but never did either when they had their blackmail-controlled puppet in the White House?
— Glenn Greenwald (@ggreenwald) December 8, 2021
Update: Biden Administration reportedly pushing for Ukraine to cede territory to Russia.
Administration officials have suggested that the U.S. will press Ukraine to formally cede a measure of autonomy to eastern Ukrainian lands now controlled by Russia-backed separatists who rose up against Kyiv in 2014.
But for sure Trump was “Putin’s Puppet.”
Published in General
No Boots On Ground. This isn’t the country that it used to be. We won’t do what it takes to win a war against austere scholarly goat-herders — we certainly won’t do a damned thing against Russia.
I don’t like it, but that is most definitely the way it is.
I’m still good with fighting China for Taiwan (or other maritime concerns) because maritime concerns breed fights which are inherently short. It’s harder to get more land-locked (the cul-de-sac Black Sea does not matter to us) than the posterior end of the Ukraine. Too bad about what happened. but it happened.
I don’t even want air power going to Ukraine, not even as 50Kft tourists. And this is from a guy who thought we should have bombed Russia out of Georgia, until Georgia themselves just faced the music and Russia took Ossetia (or whatever). We are no longer that country.
No Boots On Ground.
Ah, yes. This is the new “no blood for oil” argument that I heard so often on campus during the Iraq War. I’m willing to defend our allies and our partners. I served in Iraq twice. This isn’t some theoretical stance on my part. I know full well what the stakes are. You seem to think that the only reason to send troops to Ukraine would be to defend financial interests. I don’t agree. Putin is an authoritarian thug and is using Russia’s natural resources to influence Europe. The more territory he gets, the stronger and bolder he becomes. Allowing Putin to take Ukraine also signals to China that it can take Taiwan.
There is also just a basic principle at play here. Russia is poised to invade another sovereign country and take territory by force. We know that he will punish dissidents and minorities. We know that he will take away basic human rights. That must be opposed and the United States should lead that opposition.
Sadly, I haven’t trusted any of the last 3 administrations to do the right thing. That doesn’t mean that it isn’t the right thing to do.
Obama sent troops back into Iraq after ISIS and ordered the raid on Osama bin Laden. I was shocked he did either. Trump killed Soleimani. I was surprised, but glad he did. I’m still waiting for Biden to do something–anything, really–right. My point is that sometimes administrations do the right thing even when you least expect it. We should still want them to do the right thing.
Fair point. I guess my argument is for substantial troop movements, preferably 10,000+ in each region. I know that’s a big lift, but it’s worth it in my opinion.
Just the Sudetenland, mind you. It’s just waffen thin.
Exactly. Ukraine is an “Old Man” Biden, and his boy Hunter, money maker. I’m sure there are deals to be make and favors to be called in.
I mean, you knew that the moment we were out of Afghanistan, the same neocons who had us in there for 21 years would be agitating for interventionism somewhere else.
But with Biden as the Commander in Chief? With Milley and Austin at the Pentagon? I mean, . . . really?!
Yeah. I don’t think, with this President we can expect an unbiased policy. As they say, the appearance of impropriety.
Are we going to get leaked phone calls? Vindman?
Until then I’m as anti-war as Ghandi in a good mood.
I think the argument of whether young American lives should be sacrificed for the prerogatives of American political elite should sacrifice how ever many young working class lives as it takes, and as much borrowed money as it takes because “Putin is a bad man who needs to be stopped! Yet, Germany spends 1.4% of its GDP on defense, France 1.8%, Italy 1.6%. Poland, Latvia, Lithuania, and Estonia about 2%.
Poor Europe! Being influenced by Putin!
What, is he getting them addicted to natural gas again?
This is the EU that has tied its own hands with regulations which force them to run to the pusher man in the Russian meth-ghetto for clean burning gas, whilst shortchanging NATO.
Committing our country to a conflict with Russia -on their border! – could be an invitation to go after Taiwan. Probably more likely than less IMO. Military history is a lot like barfights, something starts, and everyone gets involved.
We can’t rid the world of dictators and bad guys. We have to pick our fights anyway.
Id like our representatives to be focusing on how our country can be less like Russia, and Australia and our country’s corruption and criminality to citizens by subverting their constitutional rights, before we world virtue-signal with our police-force democracy bringers.
What we should have learned from Afghanistan is that not only are there no right answers, there aren’t even good answers anymore. Its bad and worse, and in this case, bad is doing nothing. Worse is trusting the thoroughly jacked-up government to use the military responsibly. We are not given a choice between war and dishonor. We are given a choice between dishonorable detachment and even more dishonorable war. Our acquaintances should tremble at both our absence and our presence, and not because we are so powerful, but because we will ruin their country and hand them to their enemies.
The Baltic States and Poland are full members of NATO. Any invasion by Russia would likely trigger Article 5 of the NATO Treaty. I really don’t think Putin would push his luck by invading any of these countries.
Ukraine, on the other hand, is not a member of NATO. And as far as I can tell, the U.S.-Ukraine Charter on Strategic Partnership doesn’t require us to defend Ukraine. It looks like it requires us to provide weapons systems, etc. though.
I don’t agree with the reported position of Biden, but nor do I think we should do much more than sending weapons systems and possible advisors to Ukraine.
Yup. We have a war to win here before pissing about with any foreign manure.
Just for fun, let’s imagine what a war – even by proxy – would look like:
Commander in Chief: Joe Biden
Chairman ‘Heels on the Ground’ Tilley
JenPsaki: Spokes-human
How will that work out for us?
1914
“National honor demands that we defend Serbia from the Austro-Hungarian Empire.”
14 million dead later.
“Whoa, let’s not make that mistake again.”
2021
“National honor demands that we defend Ukraine from Russia.”
I’m far more comfortable with our earlier involvements than with our later.
Yes.
Putin is not a cartoon character. In many ways, he’s probably the most competent statesman on the planet today. He does not want war, I dont care what the Ben Shapiro’s and Sean Hannity’s of the world say. Ukraine vs Russia is not good guy vs bad guy. Putin and the Russian Federation did not want the Donbas after the referendum. There is a lot more going on here than a strong country acting bullish. And Ukraine is a failed state. What is Russia gaining by attacking Ukraine? Even if Russia did decide to launch a full-scale invasion of Ukraine tomorrow, I dont see how this is any of our business. Especially if our retaliation war is declared by oligarchs who have everything to gain financially, and not constitutionally by the people who will be the only ones paying the price for this, financially, and with their lives.
Conservatives argue that the left foolishly tries socialism over and over and over again, and somehow expects a different result. Well there’s a version of that argument that applies to conservatives too (although I have no idea what today’s conservatives are trying to conserve anymore).
Foreign adventurism and non-defensive wars have never worked in the past, and in all cases have exacerbated the problems, but we need to try them over and over and over again, because one of these times, it will work.
Yes and sorta no.
I do not trust Putin not to want war, and I do not predicate my position on any such assumption.
I just don’t care.
and Yes, he’s good at what he does. He’s a bastard, but a competent bastard. When he wants war, he will have it.
Dissidents and minorities are being punished here in the US. Basic human rights have already been violated. Here. So what justifies our coercive lectures to others?
We, as a country, are being invaded. How can we be projecting force elsewhere?
You left out some critical history- like WW2-a selective visual loss will enable the deaths of millions. WW2 happened b/c of the failure of democracies to stand up to Hitler before 1939. We could not appease Hitler with the Sudetenland and we will not appease Putin with the Ukraine.
Hitler would have been easy to stop before 1938 but none had the courage & foresight to do so…
ISIS rose to power because America decided not to wage a short punitive war against a hostile regime in 1991 but to create a modern nation state in region created by British fiat in 1919 where the culture was divided between two opposing violent Islamic identities.
The wars in Iraq and Afghanistan started in 1991 and should have end that year with the destruction of the Baathist regime and the withdrawal of all American Troops in 90 days. 9/11 was committed due the weakness of the Clinton regime and the stationing of troops in Saudi Arabia. The US military is incapable of winning a war despite winning every battle. It isn’t a political problem but a tradition of failure since 1945. It fights war to churn their weapon inventory by uncreative destruction and enrich the military industrial complex. Delusion is to argue otherwise.
p.s. This was my opinion since 1991. I supported the Iraq nation build model briefly in 2003 as a feint against Iran to destabilize the Shiite regime with domestic unrest.
I’d still put it all on the line for Belgian neutrality.
I am caught between you two.
America does a poor job at imperialism, and I am a fan of imperialism (in some ways which I am not getting into here).
We are projecting weakness and the world grows more dangerous.
The trouble is, we are weak in will and any attempt to deploy will be met with disaster. The last campaign we won was when? Grenada? Doe we call Desert Storm a win?
For a non-cartoon, realistic take on Russia’s current situation, watch this.
I wish conservatives would actually hold conservative beliefs on foreign policy, but that seems extremely rare these days. It’s always “Russia will nuke eastern Europe” or “China will overtake Afghanistan and something something Israel” and it’s tiresome, yellow-cake nonsense. One of the good things that came out of the Trump administration, at least rhetorically, is that “no new wars” became a talking point. If you are a real conservative, than you would agree that we need to keep moving in this direction.
Exactly. God forbid Europe gains additional options for their oil purchases. God forbid they’re no longer forced to buy from the US-backed Middle East cartels.
Gosh, if only Europe had governments and taxpayers of their own to make decisions and execute priorities…