An Estimate of Excess COVID Deaths Resulting from Non-Vaccination

 

I’ve put together a calculation of the number of excess COVID deaths over the past month that have resulted from non-vaccination.  Obviously, this calculation is only an estimate and relies on certain assumptions.

The algebra on this is fairly easy, though I won’t bore you with the derivation (which would be difficult to display without special text features anyway).  If:

  • n = number of deaths from COVID
  • IRR = incident rate ratio for death from COVID (i.e. the ratio of the death rates among the unvaccinated and the vaccinated)
  • PV = the percentage of the population that is vaccinated

Then the number of deaths among the vaccinated (DV) is:  DV = n x PV / (PV + ((1-PV) x IRR)).

The number of deaths among the unvaccinated (DU) is:  DU = n – DV

The number of excess deaths among the unvaccinated (DE) is:  DE = DU (1 – 1/IRR)

The latest estimate that I’ve seen of the IRR is 11.3, from this CDC report.  This means that an unvaccinated person is 11.3 times more likely to die from Covid than a vaccinated person.  The CDC reports (here) that the national vaccination rate (PV) is 53.8% of the entire population, 64.9% of the population aged 18 or older, and 82.5% of the population aged 65 and over.  As I suspect that Covid deaths continue to be concentrated among older people, I used two PV figures for my estimate: 65% and 80%.  (Note that in these calculations, a higher PV figure results in a lower number for excess deaths among the unvaccinated, so these are conservative figures.)

Finally, I used Worldometer (here) as a source for Covid deaths, selecting the one-month period from August 12 to September 11.  I calculated that a total of 39,384 deaths were reported in this period.

Here are the results, which do differ depending on the vaccination rate (PV) that I assumed for the calculation.

Assuming 65% vaccination (PV=0.65):  Deaths among the vaccinated (DV) is 5,559; deaths among the unvaccinated (DU) is 33,825; excess deaths among the unvaccinated (DE) is 30,832.

Assuming 80% vaccination (PV=0.80): Deaths among the vaccinated (DV) is 10,296; deaths among the unvaccinated (DU) is 29,088; excess deaths among the unvaccinated (DE) is 26,513.

As a sensitivity analysis, I also ran the calculation for a somewhat lower death figure (38,000) and a somewhat lower vaccine effectiveness (IRR=10).  This yielded estimates of excess deaths among the unvaccinated of 24,429-28,843.  Obviously, these are estimates, so while I report the precise figures determined by my calculations (to the nearest whole number), I think that these figures should be interpreted as a reasonable range.

Based on these figures, I think that it’s reasonable to conclude that about 24,000 to 30,000 Americans died of COVID, during the month ending 9/11/2021, because they were not vaccinated.  That’s about 8-10 times the death toll from the actual 9/11.  Another way of thinking about it is that we’ve had a 9/11-worth of death every 3-4 days over the past month, due to individual decisions not to be vaccinated.

The vaccinations may have caused other problems, as there are some side effects, and there may be future side effects.

This death toll probably explains the President’s actions in mandating vaccination in a number of circumstances.  You may or may not agree with his decision as a policy matter, but I think that it is important to understand the death toll that he probably considered in making his decision.

For the record, I disagree with the President’s decision about vaccine mandates.  If people prefer to risk death from Covid rather than take a chance on vaccination, I would respect that decision.  I respect the decision of the 24,000-30,000 Americans who, by my estimate, died during the past month or so as a result of their decision not to be vaccinated.

If I were in charge, I would not require anyone to be vaccinated.  I would reopen everything including schools, put an end to all mask requirements everywhere, report the facts, and continue to offer free vaccination to any American who wants it.

Two other related points:

  • The Worldometer graphs for both cases and deaths suggest that we’re past the peak of the current wave, and things are going to get better over the next month or two.  No guarantees, but this seems to be the trend.
  • There is some evidence that the efficacy of the vaccines diminishes over time.  The CDC is now recommending a booster shot for those who received the Pfizer or Moderna vaccine, 8 months after their second shot, for people who are moderately to severely immunocompromised.  FDA approval of this recommendation is pending.  If this recommendation remains in effect, I will plan to get a booster shot myself, next January.

For those of you who are not vaccinated, I do urge you to do consider getting the shot, for the sake of your own health.  Well, with some caveats.  We don’t have a precise figure for risks and benefits, but my general sense is that you should probably get the shot if you’re over 40; that it’s a close call if you’re 25-40; and that you shouldn’t get the shot if you’re under 25.

However, each of you has to weigh the risks and benefits, and I will respect your decision.  I hope that this information proves helpful.

Published in Healthcare
This post was promoted to the Main Feed by a Ricochet Editor at the recommendation of Ricochet members. Like this post? Want to comment? Join Ricochet’s community of conservatives and be part of the conversation. Join Ricochet for Free.

There are 189 comments.

Become a member to join the conversation. Or sign in if you're already a member.
  1. kedavis Coolidge
    kedavis
    @kedavis

    Stina (View Comment):

    Saint Augustine (View Comment):

    Stina (View Comment):
    People who have looked closer at the Pfizer drug literature said they changed it enough from ivermectin to get it it’s own patent. Which is, again, convenient.

    But is its protease inhibitor the same chemical as in ivermectin?

    I do not know. I don’t think I have enough skill to a) find out the chemical make up of either or b) to decipher a chemical chart to figure out fine differences.

    I mean, I read chemical charts on my prescriptions, but I missed my calling for chemistry.

    It may even be that the primary ingredients remain unchanged but they added or removed or changed something else in a way that can be separately patentable.  Maybe by making it “gluten-free” or something.

    • #121
  2. MiMac Thatcher
    MiMac
    @MiMac

    Stina (View Comment):

    MiMac (View Comment):
    Read the doses in the article- if a drug effect requires a dose far beyond that achievable in a human than the drug doesn’t work in any meaningful sense.

    You fail to answer my question in a straightforward manner and are making baseless claims based on studies no one has conducted.

    I have demonstrated why studies should be done. People who have looked closer at the Pfizer drug literature said they changed it enough from ivermectin to get it it’s own patent. Which is, again, convenient.

    But the way you are throwing up articles of your own to combat points i wasn’t making leads me to think you didn’t read what I posted and that you actually didn’t expect me to have sources.

    Unlikely to be true:

    1)the Pfizer compound has been in development for many years- https://cen.acs.org/acs-news/acs-meeting-news/Pfizer-unveils-oral-SARS-CoV/99/i13

    2)ivermectin formula-C47H72O14

    pfizer formula- C23H32F3N5O4

    very different

    structure- ivermectin.  http://www.chm.bris.ac.uk/motm/ivermectin/ivermectinh.htm

    Pfizer- https://cen.acs.org/acs-news/acs-meeting-news/Pfizer-unveils-oral-SARS-CoV/99/i13

     

    3) Clay et al, who did the studies on ivermectin do not think it acts via protease inhibition but by inhibiting the importin (IMP) α/β receptor, which is responsible for transmitting viral proteins into the host cell nucleus.

    • #122
  3. Flicker Coolidge
    Flicker
    @Flicker

    MiMac (View Comment):

    Stina (View Comment):

    According to webmd, a protease inhibitor “blocks proteases in the body”, so Ivermecting “blocking proteases” makes it a “protease inhibitor”.

    It doesn’t matter if we use it that way in the US or not. It has the mechanism to be used that way.

    Bricks or wrenches can be used as hammers but that doesn’t make them a hammer

    It’s a multi-faceted rock with many enzymatic active sites.  Call it what you will.

    • #123
  4. Saint Augustine Member
    Saint Augustine
    @SaintAugustine

    MiMac (View Comment):

    Unlikely to be true:

    1)the Pfizer compound has been in development for many years- https://cen.acs.org/acs-news/acs-meeting-news/Pfizer-unveils-oral-SARS-CoV/99/i13

    2)ivermectin formula-C47H72O14

    pfizer formula- C23H32F3N5O4

    very different

    These are chemical formulas?  What does that mean exactly?–23 carbons, 32 hydrogens, 3 flourines, 5 nitrogens, 4 oxygens for the Pfizer one?

    And are these formulas for the drug or just for a main ingredient?

    • #124
  5. Flicker Coolidge
    Flicker
    @Flicker

    Stina (View Comment):

    MiMac (View Comment):

    Stina (View Comment):

    According to webmd, a protease inhibitor “blocks proteases in the body”, so Ivermecting “blocking proteases” makes it a “protease inhibitor”.

    It doesn’t matter if we use it that way in the US or not. It has the mechanism to be used that way.

    Bricks or wrenches can be used as hammers but that doesn’t make them a hammer

    Wow. This isn’t logical. I’m not talking about a hammer or a screwdriver. I’m talking about a Swiss Army knife that has a corkscrew, and Phillips head, a flat head, and a knife all packaged together. Multiple uses for different problems.

    Stina (View Comment):

    MiMac (View Comment):

    Stina (View Comment):

    According to webmd, a protease inhibitor “blocks proteases in the body”, so Ivermecting “blocking proteases” makes it a “protease inhibitor”.

    It doesn’t matter if we use it that way in the US or not. It has the mechanism to be used that way.

    Bricks or wrenches can be used as hammers but that doesn’t make them a hammer

    Wow. This isn’t logical. I’m not talking about a hammer or a screwdriver. I’m talking about a Swiss Army knife that has a corkscrew, and Phillips head, a flat head, and a knife all packaged together. Multiple uses for different problems.

    Clearly the name for it is “knife”.  And knives may be used for just one thing.  Cutting.  Forget about the screwdriver, the hack saw and the corkscrew, the FDA says it’s just a knife. :)

    • #125
  6. BDB Inactive
    BDB
    @BDB

    Flicker (View Comment):

    Stina (View Comment):

    MiMac (View Comment):

    Stina (View Comment):

    According to webmd, a protease inhibitor “blocks proteases in the body”, so Ivermecting “blocking proteases” makes it a “protease inhibitor”.

    It doesn’t matter if we use it that way in the US or not. It has the mechanism to be used that way.

    Bricks or wrenches can be used as hammers but that doesn’t make them a hammer

    Wow. This isn’t logical. I’m not talking about a hammer or a screwdriver. I’m talking about a Swiss Army knife that has a corkscrew, and Phillips head, a flat head, and a knife all packaged together. Multiple uses for different problems.

    Stina (View Comment):

    MiMac (View Comment):

    Stina (View Comment):

    According to webmd, a protease inhibitor “blocks proteases in the body”, so Ivermecting “blocking proteases” makes it a “protease inhibitor”.

    It doesn’t matter if we use it that way in the US or not. It has the mechanism to be used that way.

    Bricks or wrenches can be used as hammers but that doesn’t make them a hammer

    Wow. This isn’t logical. I’m not talking about a hammer or a screwdriver. I’m talking about a Swiss Army knife that has a corkscrew, and Phillips head, a flat head, and a knife all packaged together. Multiple uses for different problems.

    Clearly the name for it is “knife”. And knives may be used for just one thing. Cutting. Forget about the screwdriver, the hack saw and the corkscrew, the FDA says it’s just a knife. :)

    It’s a horse knife, at that.

    • #126
  7. Flicker Coolidge
    Flicker
    @Flicker

    BDB (View Comment):

    Flicker (View Comment):

    Stina (View Comment):

    MiMac (View Comment):

    Stina (View Comment):

    According to webmd, a protease inhibitor “blocks proteases in the body”, so Ivermecting “blocking proteases” makes it a “protease inhibitor”.

    It doesn’t matter if we use it that way in the US or not. It has the mechanism to be used that way.

    Bricks or wrenches can be used as hammers but that doesn’t make them a hammer

    Wow. This isn’t logical. I’m not talking about a hammer or a screwdriver. I’m talking about a Swiss Army knife that has a corkscrew, and Phillips head, a flat head, and a knife all packaged together. Multiple uses for different problems.

    Stina (View Comment):

    MiMac (View Comment):

    Stina (View Comment):

    According to webmd, a protease inhibitor “blocks proteases in the body”, so Ivermecting “blocking proteases” makes it a “protease inhibitor”.

    It doesn’t matter if we use it that way in the US or not. It has the mechanism to be used that way.

    Bricks or wrenches can be used as hammers but that doesn’t make them a hammer

    Wow. This isn’t logical. I’m not talking about a hammer or a screwdriver. I’m talking about a Swiss Army knife that has a corkscrew, and Phillips head, a flat head, and a knife all packaged together. Multiple uses for different problems.

    Clearly the name for it is “knife”. And knives may be used for just one thing. Cutting. Forget about the screwdriver, the hack saw and the corkscrew, the FDA says it’s just a knife. :)

    It’s a horse knife, at that.

    I’m not familiar with that term.

    • #127
  8. BDB Inactive
    BDB
    @BDB

    Flicker (View Comment):

    BDB (View Comment):

    Flicker (View Comment):

    Stina (View Comment):

    MiMac (View Comment):

    Stina (View Comment):

    According to webmd, a protease inhibitor “blocks proteases in the body”, so Ivermecting “blocking proteases” makes it a “protease inhibitor”.

    It doesn’t matter if we use it that way in the US or not. It has the mechanism to be used that way.

    Bricks or wrenches can be used as hammers but that doesn’t make them a hammer

    Wow. This isn’t logical. I’m not talking about a hammer or a screwdriver. I’m talking about a Swiss Army knife that has a corkscrew, and Phillips head, a flat head, and a knife all packaged together. Multiple uses for different problems.

    Stina (View Comment):

    MiMac (View Comment):

    Stina (View Comment):

    According to webmd, a protease inhibitor “blocks proteases in the body”, so Ivermecting “blocking proteases” makes it a “protease inhibitor”.

    It doesn’t matter if we use it that way in the US or not. It has the mechanism to be used that way.

    Bricks or wrenches can be used as hammers but that doesn’t make them a hammer

    Wow. This isn’t logical. I’m not talking about a hammer or a screwdriver. I’m talking about a Swiss Army knife that has a corkscrew, and Phillips head, a flat head, and a knife all packaged together. Multiple uses for different problems.

    Clearly the name for it is “knife”. And knives may be used for just one thing. Cutting. Forget about the screwdriver, the hack saw and the corkscrew, the FDA says it’s just a knife. :)

    It’s a horse knife, at that.

    I’m not familiar with that term.

    Just riffing on Ivermectin “horse paste” rants.

    • #128
  9. DonG (2+2=5. Say it!) Coolidge
    DonG (2+2=5. Say it!)
    @DonG

    BDB (View Comment):

    The Reticulator (View Comment):
    If the Delta wave peaked about August 22, why did daily new cases and new deaths keep going up in the U.S.? Are we all in agreement that up is down now?

    ON worldometer, for the US new daily cases have definitely peaked (describing, not predicting — anything can happen, but solidly on the downslope), while new daily deaths have peaked or are peaking. Both of these using the 7-day moving average.

    Oddly, “total active cases” seems to be climbing and is now higher than ever. This speaks of either active cases dragging on for months, or a leakage in the “died or recovered” accounting which would remove an active case from the numbers. There is something funny going on, but IMHO, waves are tracked using daily new cases.

    As if we can trust *any* of it. Just arguing apples to apples.

    WorldOmeter.info has this, Aug 27.   I use Covidestim.org, because I look at state data and Rt.  The important thing is that Joe’s 90-day-to-implement mandate is already too late. 

    • #129
  10. DonG (2+2=5. Say it!) Coolidge
    DonG (2+2=5. Say it!)
    @DonG

    MiMac (View Comment):

    DonG (2+2=5. Say it!) (View Comment):

    How do you reconcile the data in the linked study with data out of Israel, which has better reporting, that shows the hospitalization rate for vaccinated and unvaccinated is similar? I assume the explanation is that the US does not keep good data on breakthrough infections.

    I agree that the Delta wave peaked about Aug 22. Of course any mandate now well after the horse has left the barn–typical for government.

    Good God do you not understand statistics at all? In Israel the VAST majority are vaccinated, therefore if the vaccine were ineffective, the vast majority of the hospitalized would be vaccinated, the actual stats in Israel:

    Thanks for proving my point.  I said it hard to reconcile an 11x reduction of severity by vaccination against the Israel data, which shows about a 3x reduction in severity.  3x much less than 11x.  I guess I do understand stats.  God is good!    On the Deace show he reviewed hospitalization data for many states and 2x to 3x reduction seems typical for vaccinated folks.  

    • #130
  11. kedavis Coolidge
    kedavis
    @kedavis

    DonG (2+2=5. Say it!) (View Comment):

    MiMac (View Comment):

    DonG (2+2=5. Say it!) (View Comment):

    How do you reconcile the data in the linked study with data out of Israel, which has better reporting, that shows the hospitalization rate for vaccinated and unvaccinated is similar? I assume the explanation is that the US does not keep good data on breakthrough infections.

    I agree that the Delta wave peaked about Aug 22. Of course any mandate now well after the horse has left the barn–typical for government.

    Good God do you not understand statistics at all? In Israel the VAST majority are vaccinated, therefore if the vaccine were ineffective, the vast majority of the hospitalized would be vaccinated, the actual stats in Israel:

    Thanks for proving my point. I said it hard to reconcile an 11x reduction of severity by vaccination against the Israel data, which shows about a 3x reduction in severity. 3x much less than 11x. I guess I do understand stats. God is good! On the Deace show he reviewed hospitalization data for many states and 2x to 3x reduction seems typical for vaccinated folks.

    I expect that’s probably more like 1/2 to 1/3rd reduction.  You can’t really have a 2x or 3x “reduction” like that.

    Think about it.  What is a 3x reduction from 30?  -60?  Impossible.  But a 1/2 reduction would be down to 15, and a 2/3rd reduction would be to 10.

    • #131
  12. Stina Inactive
    Stina
    @CM

    kedavis (View Comment):

    I expect that’s probably more like 1/2 to 1/3rd reduction.  You can’t really have a 2x or 3x “reduction” like that.

    Think about it.  What is a 3x reduction from 30?  -60?  Impossible.  But a 1/2 reduction would be down to 15, and a 2/3rd reduction would be to 10.

    1/3 is a 3x reduction if you invert it.

    • #132
  13. Flicker Coolidge
    Flicker
    @Flicker

    BDB (View Comment):

    Flicker (View Comment):

    BDB (View Comment):

    Flicker (View Comment):

    Stina (View Comment):

    MiMac (View Comment):

    Stina (View Comment):

    According to webmd, a protease inhibitor “blocks proteases in the body”, so Ivermecting “blocking proteases” makes it a “protease inhibitor”.

    It doesn’t matter if we use it that way in the US or not. It has the mechanism to be used that way.

    Bricks or wrenches can be used as hammers but that doesn’t make them a hammer

    Wow. This isn’t logical. I’m not talking about a hammer or a screwdriver. I’m talking about a Swiss Army knife that has a corkscrew, and Phillips head, a flat head, and a knife all packaged together. Multiple uses for different problems.

    Stina (View Comment):

    MiMac (View Comment):

    Stina (View Comment):

    According to webmd, a protease inhibitor “blocks proteases in the body”, so Ivermecting “blocking proteases” makes it a “protease inhibitor”.

    It doesn’t matter if we use it that way in the US or not. It has the mechanism to be used that way.

    Bricks or wrenches can be used as hammers but that doesn’t make them a hammer

    Wow. This isn’t logical. I’m not talking about a hammer or a screwdriver. I’m talking about a Swiss Army knife that has a corkscrew, and Phillips head, a flat head, and a knife all packaged together. Multiple uses for different problems.

    Clearly the name for it is “knife”. And knives may be used for just one thing. Cutting. Forget about the screwdriver, the hack saw and the corkscrew, the FDA says it’s just a knife. :)

    It’s a horse knife, at that.

    I’m not familiar with that term.

    Just riffing on Ivermectin “horse paste” rants.

    Oh.  I was thinking it was an Olympic gymnastics move.

    • #133
  14. The Reticulator Member
    The Reticulator
    @TheReticulator

    DonG (2+2=5. Say it!) (View Comment):
    Thanks for proving my point.  I said it hard to reconcile an 11x reduction of severity by vaccination against the Israel data, which shows about a 3x reduction in severity.  3x much less than 11x.  I guess I do understand stats.  God is good!    On the Deace show he reviewed hospitalization data for many states and 2x to 3x reduction seems typical for vaccinated folks.

     I don’t understand what you’re talking about. We don’t have measures of degrees of severity in that table. We just have one category: severe.  So how do you see a 3x reduction in severity? 

    • #134
  15. MiMac Thatcher
    MiMac
    @MiMac

    DonG (2+2=5. Say it!) (View Comment):

    MiMac (View Comment):

    DonG (2+2=5. Say it!) (View Comment):

    How do you reconcile the data in the linked study with data out of Israel, which has better reporting, that shows the hospitalization rate for vaccinated and unvaccinated is similar? I assume the explanation is that the US does not keep good data on breakthrough infections.

    I agree that the Delta wave peaked about Aug 22. Of course any mandate now well after the horse has left the barn–typical for government.

    Good God do you not understand statistics at all? In Israel the VAST majority are vaccinated, therefore if the vaccine were ineffective, the vast majority of the hospitalized would be vaccinated, the actual stats in Israel:

    Thanks for proving my point. I said it hard to reconcile an 11x reduction of severity by vaccination against the Israel data, which shows about a 3x reduction in severity. 3x much less than 11x. I guess I do understand stats. God is good! On the Deace show he reviewed hospitalization data for many states and 2x to 3x reduction seems typical for vaccinated folks.

    Hardly proving your point- more like proving mine b/c again you do not properly analyze the statistics being presented. That is the overall data-if you adjust for age the reduction is more dramatic b/c the elderly are more likely to get sick-“After accounting for the vaccination rates and stratifying by age groups, from these same data we can see that the vaccines retain high effectiveness (85-95%) vs. severe disease, showing that when it comes to preventing severe disease, the Pfizer vaccine is still performing very well vs. Delta, even in Israel from whence the most concerning data have arisen.”

    https://www.covid-datascience.com/post/israeli-data-how-can-efficacy-vs-severe-disease-be-strong-when-60-of-hospitalized-are-vaccinated

    vaccine deniers typically misrepresent the data either misunderstanding the VAERS data (5000 DEATHS FROM THE VAX!) or by failing to adjust for age and vaccine status in looking at the hospital data- death & hospitalization rate is heavily influenced by age. In the hospital I work in we have had deaths in healthy UNVACCINATED  ~30 year olds and currently expect 2 more. The death and hospitalizations are running 80-90% unvaccinated even though more than 1/2 the population is vaccinated. Our COVID census in early June was 0, now it is >100.

    • #135
  16. Bryan G. Stephens Thatcher
    Bryan G. Stephens
    @BryanGStephens

    Every drug has risks and trade offs

    People should not be mandated to take it to keep their jobs. 

    The people going to the hospital are mostly, by mostly a lot, unvaccinated. I have that from people I know working in the ER talking to patients. That is not a CDC Stat.

    We now are at a time where the vaccination clan is using force and fear, and the antivaccination clan is using fear. 

    Just do what you think is best for you.

     

    • #136
  17. Stina Inactive
    Stina
    @CM

    The Reticulator (View Comment):

    DonG (2+2=5. Say it!) (View Comment):
    Thanks for proving my point. I said it hard to reconcile an 11x reduction of severity by vaccination against the Israel data, which shows about a 3x reduction in severity. 3x much less than 11x. I guess I do understand stats. God is good! On the Deace show he reviewed hospitalization data for many states and 2x to 3x reduction seems typical for vaccinated folks.

    I don’t understand what you’re talking about. We don’t have measures of degrees of severity in that table. We just have one category: severe. So how do you see a 3x reduction in severity?

    By raw numbers between vaccinated and unvaccinated. To your question, how do we know enough to even classify as severe?

    • #137
  18. Stina Inactive
    Stina
    @CM

    MiMac (View Comment):

    vaccine deniers typically misrepresent the data either misunderstanding the VAERS data (5000 DEATHS FROM THE VAX!) or by failing to adjust for age and vaccine status in looking at the hospital data- death & hospitalization rate is heavily influenced by age. In the hospital I work in we have had deaths in healthy UNVACCINATED  ~30 year olds and currently expect 2 more. The death and hospitalizations are running 80-90% unvaccinated even though more than 1/2 the population is vaccinated. Our COVID census in early June was 0, now it is >100.

    And the pro vaxxers are just as disingenuous with how they lie with statistics, such as hospitalized being predominantly admitted for non-Covid reasons.

    So it’s good to see we all have human faults. Now stop telling me what I should and should not do and who I should and should not trust.

    • #138
  19. Saint Augustine Member
    Saint Augustine
    @SaintAugustine

    Bryan G. Stephens (View Comment):

    Just do what you think is best for you.

    And what that is, as a general rule, you know best. If it’s not you, it’s your wife, parents, or doctor.

    It’s probably not Fauci.

    • #139
  20. MiMac Thatcher
    MiMac
    @MiMac

    Stina (View Comment):

    MiMac (View Comment):

    vaccine deniers typically misrepresent the data either misunderstanding the VAERS data (5000 DEATHS FROM THE VAX!) or by failing to adjust for age and vaccine status in looking at the hospital data- death & hospitalization rate is heavily influenced by age. In the hospital I work in we have had deaths in healthy UNVACCINATED ~30 year olds and currently expect 2 more. The death and hospitalizations are running 80-90% unvaccinated even though more than 1/2 the population is vaccinated. Our COVID census in early June was 0, now it is >100.

    And the pro vaxxers are just as disingenuous with how they lie with statistics, such as hospitalized being predominantly admitted for non-Covid reasons.

    So it’s good to see we all have human faults. Now stop telling me what I should and should not do and who I should and should not trust.

    Who told you what to do? I never have backed mandates-but I do push back against misinformation 

    • #140
  21. MiMac Thatcher
    MiMac
    @MiMac

    Big increase in pregnant COVID patients (~all unvaccinated) with high rates of fetal demise &/or premature birth-

    “Currently we are investigating eight reports of pregnant women who have died within the past several weeks, all of whom are unvaccinated,” Dobbs added, according to the Sun Herald.

    The state has also seen a devastating twofold increase in the rate of fetal deaths during COVID-19. Since the beginning of the pandemic, there have been 73 fetal deaths in Mississippi.”

    https://www.medpagetoday.com/special-reports/exclusives/94529

    “Physicians from the division of maternal-fetal medicine at the University of Alabama at Birmingham (UAB) recently reported that 39 pregnant women with COVID-19 had been admitted to their hospital over the month of August. Of this group, 10 were admitted to the ICU and seven are currently on ventilators.

    In an average year — not during a pandemic — it’s not uncommon for UAB’s ICU to see one or two pregnant patients a month, said Akila Subramaniam, MD, in a virtual discussion. But, on top of these more routine cases, the ICU has seen “almost a five-fold increase” in the number of pregnant patients needing intensive care….UAB has reported that two pregnant COVID-positive patients died at the hospital; six have lost their babies during their second trimester, and three have lost their babies during their third trimester.”

    https://www.medpagetoday.com/special-reports/exclusives/94193

    but of course just fear mongering- or is it fact mongering?

     

    reassuring data on spontaneous abortions and the vax:

    https://jamanetwork.com/journals/jama/fullarticle/2784193

    • #141
  22. Flicker Coolidge
    Flicker
    @Flicker

    MiMac (View Comment):

    Big increase in pregnant COVID patients (~all unvaccinated) with high rates of fetal demise &/or premature birth-

    “Currently we are investigating eight reports of pregnant women who have died within the past several weeks, all of whom are unvaccinated,” Dobbs added, according to the Sun Herald.

    The state has also seen a devastating twofold increase in the rate of fetal deaths during COVID-19. Since the beginning of the pandemic, there have been 73 fetal deaths in Mississippi.”

    https://www.medpagetoday.com/special-reports/exclusives/94529

    “Physicians from the division of maternal-fetal medicine at the University of Alabama at Birmingham (UAB) recently reported that 39 pregnant women with COVID-19 had been admitted to their hospital over the month of August. Of this group, 10 were admitted to the ICU and seven are currently on ventilators.

    In an average year — not during a pandemic — it’s not uncommon for UAB’s ICU to see one or two pregnant patients a month, said Akila Subramaniam, MD, in a virtual discussion. But, on top of these more routine cases, the ICU has seen “almost a five-fold increase” in the number of pregnant patients needing intensive care….UAB has reported that two pregnant COVID-positive patients died at the hospital; six have lost their babies during their second trimester, and three have lost their babies during their third trimester.”

    https://www.medpagetoday.com/special-reports/exclusives/94193

    but of course just fear mongering- or is it fact mongering?

     

    reassuring data on spontaneous abortions and the vax:

    https://jamanetwork.com/journals/jama/fullarticle/2784193

    When you say unvaccinated, do you include women who have gotten two vaccine injections but less than two weeks have passed since the second injection?

    • #142
  23. MiMac Thatcher
    MiMac
    @MiMac

    Flicker (View Comment):

    MiMac (View Comment):

    Big increase in pregnant COVID patients (~all unvaccinated) with high rates of fetal demise &/or premature birth-

    “Currently we are investigating eight reports of pregnant women who have died within the past several weeks, all of whom are unvaccinated,” Dobbs added, according to the Sun Herald.

    The state has also seen a devastating twofold increase in the rate of fetal deaths during COVID-19. Since the beginning of the pandemic, there have been 73 fetal deaths in Mississippi.”

    https://www.medpagetoday.com/special-reports/exclusives/94529

    “Physicians from the division of maternal-fetal medicine at the University of Alabama at Birmingham (UAB) recently reported that 39 pregnant women with COVID-19 had been admitted to their hospital over the month of August. Of this group, 10 were admitted to the ICU and seven are currently on ventilators.

    In an average year — not during a pandemic — it’s not uncommon for UAB’s ICU to see one or two pregnant patients a month, said Akila Subramaniam, MD, in a virtual discussion. But, on top of these more routine cases, the ICU has seen “almost a five-fold increase” in the number of pregnant patients needing intensive care….UAB has reported that two pregnant COVID-positive patients died at the hospital; six have lost their babies during their second trimester, and three have lost their babies during their third trimester.”

    https://www.medpagetoday.com/special-reports/exclusives/94193

    but of course just fear mongering- or is it fact mongering?

    reassuring data on spontaneous abortions and the vax:

    https://jamanetwork.com/journals/jama/fullarticle/2784193

    When you say unvaccinated, do you include women who have gotten two vaccine injections but less than two weeks have passed since the second injection?

    Typically you are not considered fully vaccinated until 2 weeks post completion of the 2nd dose b/c the vaccine can’t magically make the immune system do impossible feats. If your immune system worked in a day or so,  you wouldn’t have needed the vaccine in the 1st place.

    • #143
  24. Saint Augustine Member
    Saint Augustine
    @SaintAugustine

    MiMac (View Comment):

    Flicker (View Comment):

    MiMac (View Comment):

    Big increase in pregnant COVID patients (~all unvaccinated) with high rates of fetal demise &/or premature birth-

    “Currently we are investigating eight reports of pregnant women who have died within the past several weeks, all of whom are unvaccinated,” Dobbs added, according to the Sun Herald.

    The state has also seen a devastating twofold increase in the rate of fetal deaths during COVID-19. Since the beginning of the pandemic, there have been 73 fetal deaths in Mississippi.”

    https://www.medpagetoday.com/special-reports/exclusives/94529

    “Physicians from the division of maternal-fetal medicine at the University of Alabama at Birmingham (UAB) recently reported that 39 pregnant women with COVID-19 had been admitted to their hospital over the month of August. Of this group, 10 were admitted to the ICU and seven are currently on ventilators.

    In an average year — not during a pandemic — it’s not uncommon for UAB’s ICU to see one or two pregnant patients a month, said Akila Subramaniam, MD, in a virtual discussion. But, on top of these more routine cases, the ICU has seen “almost a five-fold increase” in the number of pregnant patients needing intensive care….UAB has reported that two pregnant COVID-positive patients died at the hospital; six have lost their babies during their second trimester, and three have lost their babies during their third trimester.”

    https://www.medpagetoday.com/special-reports/exclusives/94193

    but of course just fear mongering- or is it fact mongering?

    reassuring data on spontaneous abortions and the vax:

    https://jamanetwork.com/journals/jama/fullarticle/2784193

    When you say unvaccinated, do you include women who have gotten two vaccine injections but less than two weeks have passed since the second injection?

    Typically you are not considered fully vaccinated until 2 weeks post completion of the 2nd dose b/c the vaccine can’t magically make the immune system do impossible feats. If your immune system worked in a day or so, you wouldn’t have needed the vaccine in the 1st place.

    So yes? So you are considering them unvaccinated if they’ve had one or two vaccines?

    • #144
  25. Flicker Coolidge
    Flicker
    @Flicker

    MiMac (View Comment):

    Flicker (View Comment):

    MiMac (View Comment):

    Big increase in pregnant COVID patients (~all unvaccinated) with high rates of fetal demise &/or premature birth-

    “Currently we are investigating eight reports of pregnant women who have died within the past several weeks, all of whom are unvaccinated,” Dobbs added, according to the Sun Herald.

    The state has also seen a devastating twofold increase in the rate of fetal deaths during COVID-19. Since the beginning of the pandemic, there have been 73 fetal deaths in Mississippi.”

    https://www.medpagetoday.com/special-reports/exclusives/94529

    “Physicians from the division of maternal-fetal medicine at the University of Alabama at Birmingham (UAB) recently reported that 39 pregnant women with COVID-19 had been admitted to their hospital over the month of August. Of this group, 10 were admitted to the ICU and seven are currently on ventilators.

    In an average year — not during a pandemic — it’s not uncommon for UAB’s ICU to see one or two pregnant patients a month, said Akila Subramaniam, MD, in a virtual discussion. But, on top of these more routine cases, the ICU has seen “almost a five-fold increase” in the number of pregnant patients needing intensive care….UAB has reported that two pregnant COVID-positive patients died at the hospital; six have lost their babies during their second trimester, and three have lost their babies during their third trimester.”

    https://www.medpagetoday.com/special-reports/exclusives/94193

    but of course just fear mongering- or is it fact mongering?

    reassuring data on spontaneous abortions and the vax:

    https://jamanetwork.com/journals/jama/fullarticle/2784193

    When you say unvaccinated, do you include women who have gotten two vaccine injections but less than two weeks have passed since the second injection?

    Typically you are not considered fully vaccinated until 2 weeks post completion of the 2nd dose b/c the vaccine can’t magically make the immune system do impossible feats. If your immune system worked in a day or so, you wouldn’t have needed the vaccine in the 1st place.

    What?  When you say unvaccinated, do you include women who have gotten two vaccine injections but less than two weeks have passed since the second injection?

    • #145
  26. BDB Inactive
    BDB
    @BDB

    The two weeks issue is sticky.  Obviously  there should be four categories, not two:

    no shot

    one shot

    two shots

    two shots plus two weeks

     

    • #146
  27. D.A. Venters Inactive
    D.A. Venters
    @DAVenters

    When Bill Gates was designing the microchip for the vaccine, he should have included a little bell that would ring when maximum immunity was achieved. That way, we wouldn’t have to guess at when someone can really be considered “vaccinated.” 

    Of course, it would be difficult to hear a tiny bell deeply embedded in your shoulder muscle. Perhaps it would be better to have the microchip send out a little shock, instead, which  causes the person to spontaneously shout “Ding!” at the moment of immunity. 

    Something to consider for the boosters.

    • #147
  28. MiMac Thatcher
    MiMac
    @MiMac

    Saint Augustine (View Comment):

    MiMac (View Comment):

    Flicker (View Comment):

    MiMac (View Comment):

    Big increase in pregnant COVID patients (~all unvaccinated) with high rates of fetal demise &/or premature birth-

    “Currently we are investigating eight reports of pregnant women who have died within the past several weeks, all of whom are unvaccinated,” Dobbs added, according to the Sun Herald.

    The state has also seen a devastating twofold increase in the rate of fetal deaths during COVID-19. Since the beginning of the pandemic, there have been 73 fetal deaths in Mississippi.”

    https://www.medpagetoday.com/special-reports/exclusives/94529

    “Physicians from the division of maternal-fetal medicine at the University of Alabama at Birmingham (UAB) recently reported that 39 pregnant women with COVID-19 had been admitted to their hospital over the month of August. Of this group, 10 were admitted to the ICU and seven are currently on ventilators.

    In an average year — not during a pandemic — it’s not uncommon for UAB’s ICU to see one or two pregnant patients a month, said Akila Subramaniam, MD, in a virtual discussion. But, on top of these more routine cases, the ICU has seen “almost a five-fold increase” in the number of pregnant patients needing intensive care….UAB has reported that two pregnant COVID-positive patients died at the hospital; six have lost their babies during their second trimester, and three have lost their babies during their third trimester.”

    https://www.medpagetoday.com/special-reports/exclusives/94193

    but of course just fear mongering- or is it fact mongering?

    reassuring data on spontaneous abortions and the vax:

    https://jamanetwork.com/journals/jama/fullarticle/2784193

    When you say unvaccinated, do you include women who have gotten two vaccine injections but less than two weeks have passed since the second injection?

    Typically you are not considered fully vaccinated until 2 weeks post completion of the 2nd dose b/c the vaccine can’t magically make the immune system do impossible feats. If your immune system worked in a day or so, you wouldn’t have needed the vaccine in the 1st place.

    So yes? So you are considering them unvaccinated if they’ve had one or two vaccines?

    It isn’t me doing the talking-so I cannot be sure-people can be imprecise with their words. Typically you are”partially vaccinated” some time after recieving the1st dose (of the mRNA vax)until 2 weeks post the second dose (which makes perfect sense immunologically-the immune response takes time). The study for Pfizer showed the vaccine took >10 days to provide protection. The reports from Alabama on the pregnant patients say “nearly all unvaccinated or partially vaccinated”. The obstetrical report from Mississippi say “unvaccinated”. Ob-Doctors from NYU:””We’ve not had a fully vaccinated patient in the ICU”. Johns Hopkins: “We are also just starting to see an increase again in the number of COVID patients that are pregnant being admitted to ICUs. … “All of them [are] unvaccinated”. In any event it is clear that it is RARE for a fully vaccinated pregnant women to get critically ill with COVID- their rate of severe illness is much lower than the unvaccinated.

    • #148
  29. Stina Inactive
    Stina
    @CM

    MiMac (View Comment):
    We are also just starting to see an increase again in the number of COVID patients that are pregnant being admitted to ICUs. …

    COVID patients or patients with COVID?

    • #149
  30. MiMac Thatcher
    MiMac
    @MiMac

    Stina (View Comment):

    MiMac (View Comment):
    We are also just starting to see an increase again in the number of COVID patients that are pregnant being admitted to ICUs. …

    COVID patients or patients with COVID?

    The claims that people are with COVID rather than sick from it is just sheer lunacy. You do not admit pregnant women to the ICU for the fun of it.

    • #150
Become a member to join the conversation. Or sign in if you're already a member.