Roald Dahl’s Message to Anti-vaccination Groups

 

“Olivia, my eldest daughter, caught measles when she was seven years old. As the illness took its usual course I can remember reading to her often in bed and not feeling particularly alarmed about it. Then one morning, when she was well on the road to recovery, I was sitting on her bed showing her how to fashion little animals out of coloured pipe-cleaners, and when it came to her turn to make one herself, I noticed that her fingers and her mind were not working together and she couldn’t do anything.

‘Are you feeling all right?’ I asked her.

‘I feel all sleepy,’ she said.

In an hour, she was unconscious. In twelve hours she was dead.

The measles had turned into a terrible thing called measles encephalitis and there was nothing the doctors could do to save her. That was…in 1962, but even now, if a child with measles happens to develop the same deadly reaction from measles as Olivia did, there would still be nothing the doctors could do to help her. On the other hand, there is today something that parents can do to make sure that this sort of tragedy does not happen to a child of theirs. They can insist that their child is immunised against measles.

…I dedicated two of my books to Olivia, the first was ‘James and the Giant Peach’. That was when she was still alive. The second was ‘The BFG’, dedicated to her memory after she had died from measles. You will see her name at the beginning of each of these books. And I know how happy she would be if only she could know that her death had helped to save a good deal of illness and death among other children.”

– Roald Dahl, 1986

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  1. MiMac Thatcher
    MiMac
    @MiMac

    kedavis (View Comment):

    Roderic (View Comment):

    Richard Easton (View Comment):
    Very few kids die from COVID and we don’t know what the long-term effects of the vaccines are.

    We have data on people that were vaccinated 6 months ago, and the history of older vaccines shows that effects showing up after 2 months are extremely rare.

    Really? How many mRNA “vaccines” have been used in the past, to have this 2- months experience from?

    The overblown scare from mRNA vaccines is hard to fathom. Sure there is a small theoretical risk of unknowns from the vaccine-but you also have the risk you will get hit by space junk, eaten by sharks, hit by lightening-these risks are likely of a similar magnitude. People get viral mRNA in their bodies on a regular basis- the highly technical term for it is “a cold”-there is also the flu as well as other viral infections.. As a matter of fact, since approx 15% of colds are coronaviruses-you get coronavirus mRNA in your body on regular basis. People who have survived COVID ALL HAD VIRAL mRNA in their bodies- in fact they had a much higher dose of viral mRNA in their bodies-and not just spike protein mRNA but other mRNAs from COVID. If you fear viral mRNA you are quite likely safer getting the limited dose of viral mRNA from the vaccine rather than the mega-dose of viral mRNA from an infection. Not only will the dose of mRNA be less-but so will the dose of spike protein and you will get none of the other proteins

    • #151
  2. lowtech redneck Coolidge
    lowtech redneck
    @lowtech redneck

    MiMac (View Comment):

    The overblown scare from mRNA vaccines is hard to fathom. 

    The same is true about COVID, and that scare has been the justification for global lockdowns and authoritarian state control, all of which has been encouraged by global medical professionals even while they lied about the lab-leak hypothesis for political reasons….why is the rampant skepticism that results so hard to fathom?  For what its worth, my stance on COVID vaccines is the same as that of Western Chauvinist, which some people seem to think qualifies me as an anti-vaxxer.

     

    • #152
  3. kedavis Coolidge
    kedavis
    @kedavis

    lowtech redneck (View Comment):

    MiMac (View Comment):

    The overblown scare from mRNA vaccines is hard to fathom.

    The same is true about COVID, and that scare has been the justification for global lockdowns and authoritarian state control, all of which has been encouraged by global medical professionals even while they lied about the lab-leak hypothesis for political reasons….why is the rampant skepticism that results so hard to fathom? For what its worth, my stance on COVID vaccines is the same as that of Western Chauvinist, which some people seem to think qualifies me as an anti-vaxxer.

    “Anti-vaxxer” is turning into a shield against actual thinking, as with “whataboutism.”

    • #153
  4. Western Chauvinist Member
    Western Chauvinist
    @WesternChauvinist

    I’ve been saying from the beginning of the pandemic: nobody knows nuthin’. There’s a lot of speculation about the long term effects of the vaccine, but not so much about the long term effects of contracting COVID. Maybe we’ll all develop blood clots in 6 or 7 years from either one. Nobody knows nuthin’. 

    I just prefer not to get sick from a lab generated Chicom bioweapon, but YMMV. 

    • #154
  5. CarolJoy, Not So Easy To Kill Coolidge
    CarolJoy, Not So Easy To Kill
    @CarolJoy

    MiMac (View Comment):

    kedavis (View Comment):

    Roderic (View Comment):

    Richard Easton (View Comment):
    Very few kids die from COVID and we don’t know what the long-term effects of the vaccines are.

    SNIP 

    Really? How many mRNA “vaccines” have been used in the past, to have this 2- months experience from?

    The overblown scare from mRNA vaccines is hard to fathom. Sure there is a small theoretical risk of unknowns from the vaccine-but you also have the risk you will get hit by space junk, eaten by sharks, hit by lightening-these risks are likely of a similar magnitude. SNIP People who have survived COVID ALL HAD VIRAL mRNA in their bodies- in fact they had a much higher dose of viral mRNA in their bodies-and not just spike protein mRNA but other mRNAs from COVID. If you fear viral mRNA you are quite likely safer getting the limited dose of viral mRNA from the vaccine rather than the mega-dose of viral mRNA from an infection. Not only will the dose of mRNA be less-but so will the dose of spike protein and you will get none of the other proteins

    Except when we get a cold or flu, we don’t have our ribosomes converted from making protein for the nourishment of our mitochondria into these weird spike protein factories, with no one really knowing how long the ribosomes are then captively held into doing this. (We are told by “experts” this hostage taking of the ribosomes lasts only a few hours. But there are indications that they are making that up – just as they made up “two weeks to flatten the curve.”)

    If the mitochondria are not properly nourished, the individual is in trouble.

    We do know that an individual’s mitochondria are what offer up the energy that we need to be alert, healthy, happy & productive. We also know that the mitochondria are at the apex of their well being as babies, then a bit less as children and teens. By age 40, unless a human has been doing it all decently: good clean air, great diet, decent exercise and sunshine routine, freedom from too much stress, then the  mitochondria are beginning to decline.

    So it is not surprising to hear of the nursing care facilities where 22 out of 133 residents died within 5 days of the COVID vaccine. Or 38 out of 167 residents.
    I am very familiar with nursing home facilities. Most facilities do not have more than 2 or 3 deaths a week. The only other time such facilities have a sharp spike in deaths is immediately following a flu vaccine program. But in those programs, residents were free to opt out. And the numbers of deaths were nowhere near as severe. With the COVID vax program, their unwillingness to partake of the jab was simply ignored. 

     

    • #155
  6. CarolJoy, Not So Easy To Kill Coolidge
    CarolJoy, Not So Easy To Kill
    @CarolJoy

    kedavis (View Comment):

    lowtech redneck (View Comment):

    MiMac (View Comment):

    The overblown scare from mRNA vaccines is hard to fathom.

    The same is true about COVID, and that scare has been the justification for global lockdowns and authoritarian state control, all of which has been encouraged by global medical professionals even while they lied about the lab-leak hypothesis for political reasons….why is the rampant skepticism that results so hard to fathom? For what its worth, my stance on COVID vaccines is the same as that of Western Chauvinist, which some people seem to think qualifies me as an anti-vaxxer.

    “Anti-vaxxer” is turning into a shield against actual thinking, as with “whataboutism.”

    Also similar to the continual refrain of “If you think that way, you are a White Supremacist.” Applied to any and every thing.

    • #156
  7. CarolJoy, Not So Easy To Kill Coolidge
    CarolJoy, Not So Easy To Kill
    @CarolJoy

    Bryan G. Stephens (View Comment):

    Bob Thompson (View Comment):

    Bryan G. Stephens (View Comment):

    Ot trying to impose anything. I do, however reserve the right to judge others who think that the vaccine is experimental are akin to flat earthers.

    You must be able to speak to why the vaccines have not been approved by the FDA and why the liability exemptions are still in place.

    The FDA is clearly a joke.

    I thought this was a center right site. Anti vaxx is a thing of the left.

    Was Trump a bad guy in this?

    Where in the world do you get your information, Bryan? Had you not followed Sen Burton’s “Congressional Committee on Oversight of US Vaccination Program” back in April 2000?

    It is the Dems who are pro vaccine. If you had followed Burton at all, you would have seen a stark contrast to his behavior toward Big Pharma, vs that of Waxman, a Dem congressman in California who was owned by Pharma.

    Since 2012, people have left the Dem party here in Calif in droves – absolutely in droves – due to the Dems’ insane insistence on having mandates for 71 vaxxes for each and every child from day one to age 18. In other states, religious objections or an objection based on a child having previously injured by vaccines offered  the parents the ability to opt out. (Why religious objections? Well, maybe due to fetal cells being found in so many of the vaccines. Deliberately inserted.)  Also a  health-related reason to object to vaccines for your child can arise if the parent knows the child is allergic to eggs or peanuts, items now found in vaccines. 

     

    • #157
  8. CarolJoy, Not So Easy To Kill Coolidge
    CarolJoy, Not So Easy To Kill
    @CarolJoy

    Roderic (View Comment):

    Richard Easton (View Comment):
    Very few kids die from COV… we don’t know what the long-term effects of the vaccines are.

    We have data on people that were vaccinated 6 months ago, and the history of older vaccines shows that effects showing up after 2 months are extremely rare.

    There are troubling stories about post menopausal women getting periods.

    As with all of these anecdotal reports of side effects you have to show that this happens with the vaccine more commonly that it would by chance before you can say it’s a real concern. Restarting menstruation does happen.

    In a sane world, these problems would have been studied before the vaccines were released.

    SNIP Now we’re down to 150 or so a day. I’d say that looks like a success.

    Do we want kids to have to get booster shots? The immunity you get from having COVID is better than what the vaccines provide.

    Going by antibody titers, the immunity from vaccines is actually better than that from natural infection. SNIP

    And the lockdowns have led many people to have more fragile immune systems.

    I’ve got to call bull on that one.

    Going back to the earlier point. Without doing the numbers I think that even with no comorbidities people are at greater risk of a bad outcome if they get infected than they would be with vaccination. Again by orders of magnitude.

     

    It is well established in the world of doctors and researchers that fertility issues do show up a great deal later than 2 or 3 months.

    Gardasil is administered to young women often between the ages of 12 years of to 18. Most girls in that age group are not going to get pregnant. So it stands to reason that when this vaccine causes infertility, it could be decade or more  before the side effect is noticed. One sad thing about this vaccine is it is offered as a way to have genital warts dissolve within 2 years, even though it was established before the vaccine was ever created that normally these warts do dissolve within 2 years anyway.

    So COV vax researchers are also concerned about the possibility that we could be causing infertility to the Devil knows how many young people. After all, this COVID virus came from a lab in Wuhan China, a lab that continued to exist due to Bill Gates’ proxy Fauci giving 3 millions of taxpayers money to it, with Gates himself working for the families enmeshed in the Davos crowd. Who are families only concerned about their profits and power and control, and have been selling us out to Red China since the late 1980’s of not before.

    We could have lowered the death count from COVID by insisting on a test for COVID more accurate than the PCR be given to patients dying in the hospitals. And not counting accident victims, stroke & heart attack deaths as COVID deaths.

     

    • #158
  9. MiMac Thatcher
    MiMac
    @MiMac

    CarolJoy, Not So Easy To Kill (View Comment):

    MiMac (View Comment):

    kedavis (View Comment):

    Roderic (View Comment):

    Richard Easton (View Comment):
    Very few kids die from COVID and we don’t know what the long-term effects of the vaccines are.

    SNIP

    Really? How many mRNA “vaccines” have been used in the past, to have this 2- months experience from?

    The overblown scare from mRNA vaccines is hard to fathom. Sure there is a small theoretical risk of unknowns from the vaccine-but you also have the risk you will get hit by space junk, eaten by sharks, hit by lightening-these risks are likely of a similar magnitude. SNIP People who have survived COVID ALL HAD VIRAL mRNA in their bodies- in fact they had a much higher dose of viral mRNA in their bodies-and not just spike protein mRNA but other mRNAs from COVID. If you fear viral mRNA you are quite likely safer getting the limited dose of viral mRNA from the vaccine rather than the mega-dose of viral mRNA from an infection. Not only will the dose of mRNA be less-but so will the dose of spike protein and you will get none of the other proteins

    Except when we get a cold or flu, we don’t have our ribosomes converted from making protein for the nourishment of our mitochondria into these weird spike protein factories, with no one really knowing how long the ribosomes are then captively held into doing this. (We are told by “experts” this hostage taking of the ribosomes lasts only a few hours. But there are indications that they are making that up – just as they made up “two weeks to flatten the curve.”)

    If the mitochondria are not properly nourished, the individual is in trouble.

    We do know that an individual’s mitochondria are what offer up the energy that we need to be alert, healthy, happy & productive. We also know that the mitochondria are at the apex of their well being as babies, then a bit less as children and teens. By age 40, unless a human has been doing it all decently: good clean air, great diet, decent exercise and sunshine routine, freedom from too much stress, then the mitochondria are beginning to decline.

    So it is not surprising to hear of the nursing care facilities where 22 out of 133 residents died within 5 days of the COVID vaccine. Or 38 out of 167 residents.
    I am very familiar with nursing home facilities. Most facilities do not have more than 2 or 3 deaths a week. The only other time such facilities have a sharp spike in deaths is immediately following a flu vaccine program. But in those programs, residents were free to opt out. And the numbers of deaths were nowhere near as severe. With the COVID vax program, their unwillingness to partake of the jab was simply ignored.

     

    1)Ribosomes do not principally make proteins to “nourish” our mitochondria.

    2) the amount of your bodies ribosomes that make the spike protein after the mRNA vaccine is an insignificant fraction of your body’s  cells.

    3) what data do you have to back the allegedly sharp spike in deaths due to the flu vaccine in nursing homes? The flu vaccine saves many lives on a regular basis- plus it helps keep the hospitals from overflowing every flu season. Every February the hospital I work at has a bed shortage due to flu admissions.

    https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4762025/

    • #159
  10. CarolJoy, Not So Easy To Kill Coolidge
    CarolJoy, Not So Easy To Kill
    @CarolJoy

    Richard Easton (View Comment):

    Here’s an interesting Twitter thread asserting that vaccines were oversold.


    That was an excellent presentation of real facts, & thanks for sharing it.

    • #160
  11. MiMac Thatcher
    MiMac
    @MiMac

    CarolJoy, Not So Easy To Kill (View Comment):

    Richard Easton (View Comment):

    Here’s an interesting Twitter thread asserting that vaccines were oversold.


    That was an excellent presentation of real facts, & thanks for sharing it.

    95% efficacy of the mRNA vaccines put lie to most of the above discussion- a vaccine was in fact developed rapidly (altho the vaccine was the result of over 10 years of research). The delta virus has seemingly decreased the vaccines ability to reduce mild infection and transmission but the vaccine has still managed to protect against severe outcomes-which is the GOAL. No one cares if all that is spread is a runny nose & mild cough- if ICU admissions & death are greatly reduced it is a raving success.

    • #161
  12. Annefy Member
    Annefy
    @Annefy

    @mimac – you seem to understand the virus and the vaccine. My understanding was that there had never been a successful vaccine for any corona virus and I was quite adamant last year that there wouldn’t be one for Covid 19. 

    Thought for awhile that I’d been proven wrong – I’m sorta back in the “wait and see” camp at this point. It may come down to how we measure “success”. I’m all about measuring lives lost, and if that number goes down it’s good news. 

    Can I pick your brain, and get your opinion?

    I’m curious – if Covid has been reduced to just the sniffles, why does anyone care when someone tests positive, like the TX legislatures, Olympic athletes, etc. They’re not in danger, and they appear to putting other people in danger for a cold. Hardly news. 

    Also, why were patients who were really ill with Covid refused therapeutics? I twice took people to the ER, only to have to go back and get them. They were refused admittance and any therapeutics. I don’t think I’ve ever had the flu, so I have nothing to compare it to. But surely there’s treatments. Or did we ignore all treatments while hanging on for the holy grail of the vaccine? 

    Lastly, how do we know whether someone has the Delta version? It seems to me the testing has been hinky all along – I know many people who tested positive and had zero symptoms; I still have lingering symptoms and got a negative. (About which I didn’t care, BTW, since by then I knew nothing would be done regardless of the result)

    Consequently, when I hear numbers bandied about with confidence, I don’t pay much attention. 

    Appreciate your thoughts. 

    • #162
  13. CarolJoy, Not So Easy To Kill Coolidge
    CarolJoy, Not So Easy To Kill
    @CarolJoy

    MarciN (View Comment):

    What we need is to study a group of people who have exhaustive medical histories on file so that we can monitor their health carefully after they get the vaccine. That’s the only way we will be able to sort out what’s new or worse since they got the vaccine.

    I keep thinking of the salt story. A study reached the conclusion that salt was implicated somehow in elevated blood pressure. So the entire country went on an no-salt diet. Over time, however, it was discovered that actually salt did not cause elevated blood pressure in people. It exacerbated the condition in people who had high blood pressure, and so those people should reduce their salt intake. But salt, in and of itself, did not cause high blood pressure.

    This is the kind of long-term study we need for these vaccines. And the people to give us this information are people who needed it because they had a list of factors that made the covid-19 virus potentially lethal. But the vaccines should be considered “new” and not completely understood until we have that information.

    We should stop the program and stop it now. We are now at a point where 170% more people have died from the COVID vaccines than have died from all vaccine programs combined going all the way back to 1990. (Remember we stopped the H1N1 vaccine after 53 people died.) 

    Meanwhile a man named Tom Lenz is suing the CDC for scrubbing 45,000 deaths from VAERS.  

    To suggest that we justify this program by doing long term studies has a “Mengele” flavor to it.

    • #163
  14. CarolJoy, Not So Easy To Kill Coolidge
    CarolJoy, Not So Easy To Kill
    @CarolJoy

    Ed G. (View Comment):

    Jerry Giordano (Arizona Patrio… (View Comment):

    Richard Easton (View Comment):

    The WuFlu is of little danger to people under 40. Seasonal flu killed many more people in that age group. Yet the government and schools are pressuring people to get vaccines which are useless to them. Even if the long term side effects are nil, this makes no sense.

    Can you think of any benefit to such vaccination of young people?

    If it turns out that the covid vaccines don’t have any serious long term effects then vaccination is its own benefit. The question is always about tradeoffs.

    Currently, as I understand it, on the one hand we have a segment (most segments probably) with no serious risk, we have non-vaccine and long-term-effect-tested treatments (like ivermectin).

    On the other hand we have vaccines most of which were derived from aborted fetus cell lines, none of which have completed the usual vetting process (understandably, considering the high risk to some few segments), all of which carry some risk themselves (though admittedly very small), whose efficacy is to be determined (how do vaccinated people contract covid?).

    I would say the deaths of the 10,000 plus people are for them and their families are a very long term effect. And I hope no one here offers me  the stats – that 10k dead against the 170 million injections means the 10K deaths are  a drop in the bucket.

    Once a death is shown to be unnecessary, that factor eliminates the idea of “a drop in the bucket.” We don’t tell ourselves that the 12 victims of a serial killer are a mere “drop in the bucket” when viewed from the perspective of 329 million Americans. The unnecessary deaths cancel out the logic of running statistics.

    Given that HCQ protocols, ivermectin, high dose C and D and zinc are proven effective against COVID, then vaccination is unnecessary.

    Also with the letters being sent out to people, mostly in the state of  Michigan, that “you have been inadvertently been given a saline solution rather than the actual COVID vaccine, so please at yr earliest convenience make an appointment to come back in and receive the real thing.” What the hell? So if it is true that the rollout of this COVID vaccine program included some inert non-vaccine material as part of the way this clinical vaccine trial is being handled, then it explains why a certain segment of those being “vaxxed” experience  not a single side effect, not even the very usual pain at the injection site. 

    • #164
  15. CarolJoy, Not So Easy To Kill Coolidge
    CarolJoy, Not So Easy To Kill
    @CarolJoy

    Western Chauvinist (View Comment):

    DonG (2+2=5. Say it!) (View Comment):

    Bryan G. Stephens (View Comment):
    The technology of this vaccine is better than injection of an actual dead virus.

    data out of Israel show that natural immunization is about 7 times better than vaccine immunity. But some of that could be survivor bias.

    If vaccine immunity is 95% or thereabouts, how do you get “7 times better” than that? I think there’s a lot of confusing information out there. Or, maybe it’s just me being confused.

    The methods of determination and the vocabulary by which Pfizer Moderna spokespeople et al could come forward with the “95% efficacy” or “98% efficacy” were methods and terminology that you cannot find used before in the entire history of vaccines. So basically the statements are  bogus. 

    • #165
  16. CarolJoy, Not So Easy To Kill Coolidge
    CarolJoy, Not So Easy To Kill
    @CarolJoy

    MiMac (View Comment):

    Annefy (View Comment):

    DonG (2+2=5. Say it!) (View Comment):

    kedavis (View Comment):

    Jerry Giordano (Arizona Patrio… (View Comment):
    We’ve done this in the past, with many other dread diseases, some much worse than Covid. I don’t recall much objection at the time.

    I’d say, that’s where your argument falls to the ground. Those other diseases were MUCH WORSE than covid. Not MUCH WORSE than the media portrays covid, but MUCH WORSE than covid actually IS.

    If we had a vaccine for the common cold and 1 in a million people had a bad reaction and died, should the vaccine be pushed to everyone? The less deadly the disease, the less justification for mass vaccination. SNIP 

    If I was worried about COVID, and thought it was as dangerous as it is portrayed, I’d prob get the vaccine. I have no underlying health concerns, have a healthy BMI, and as the oldest person in my family, there’s no elderly to worry about.

    And there are treatments for Covid. I really don’t see the point.

    There are no good treatments for COVID at this point other than dexamethasone. We lack any specific anti-viral med for it at this point. HCQ is bunk & ivermectin doesn’t look promising but I would hold off any definitive opinion until the PRINCIPLE study ivermectin arm has reported. The better quality studies do not support ivermectin to date but even those aren’t large.

    @rhfabian

    Two hundred studies done world wide regarding HCQ  disprove what you have written. Even anti-HCQ, pro-vaccine  Anthony Fauci once co authored a paper that stipulated the amazing efficacy of HCQ in combatting corona viruses. (Paper published in 2005.) 

    This COVID virus jumped out of a Wuhan lab that we taxpayers kept up and running, and then remedies which would have reduced whatever the real fatality numbers of COVID were by 83 to 85% if HCQ, ivermectin, high dose C & D and zinc had been promoted rather than disparaged and withheld. The matter of our government agencies withholding remedies means heads should roll and some officials should be indicted for aggravated murder. RICO racketeering charges also should apply.

    As far as young people being in hospitals with COVID, it has been established repeatedly that no matter what health crisis brought an individual into a hospital, the PCR tests were run at such high cycles that far too many had false COVID positives. The situation a young FB friend found herself in, after being the victim of a stabbing, was that she was almost immediately tested for COVID, found to be COV +, and then told she should expect to be intubated. She used her phone to contact all 1,100 of her FB friends, and several who were doctors went out on a limb and contacted the hospital admin to let them know that should the intubation occur, the would bring the matter to the state’s hospital investigative commission.

    • #166
  17. Bryan G. Stephens Thatcher
    Bryan G. Stephens
    @BryanGStephens

    CarolJoy, Not So Easy To Kill (View Comment):

    MarciN (View Comment):

    What we need is to study a group of people who have exhaustive medical histories on file so that we can monitor their health carefully after they get the vaccine. That’s the only way we will be able to sort out what’s new or worse since they got the vaccine.

    I keep thinking of the salt story. A study reached the conclusion that salt was implicated somehow in elevated blood pressure. So the entire country went on an no-salt diet. Over time, however, it was discovered that actually salt did not cause elevated blood pressure in people. It exacerbated the condition in people who had high blood pressure, and so those people should reduce their salt intake. But salt, in and of itself, did not cause high blood pressure.

    This is the kind of long-term study we need for these vaccines. And the people to give us this information are people who needed it because they had a list of factors that made the covid-19 virus potentially lethal. But the vaccines should be considered “new” and not completely understood until we have that information.

    We should stop the program and stop it now. We are now at a point where 170% more people have died from the COVID vaccines than have died from all vaccine programs combined going all the way back to 1990. (Remember we stopped the H1N1 vaccine after 53 people died.)

    Meanwhile a man named Tom Lenz is suing the CDC for scrubbing 45,000 deaths from VAERS.

    To suggest that we justify this program by doing long term studies has a “Mengele” flavor to it.

    How over the top. 

    • #167
  18. Western Chauvinist Member
    Western Chauvinist
    @WesternChauvinist

    Annefy (View Comment):
    I’m curious – if Covid has been reduced to just the sniffles, why does anyone care when someone tests positive, like the TX legislatures, Olympic athletes, etc. They’re not in danger, and they appear to putting other people in danger for a cold. Hardly news. 

    That’s easy. Because the Biden admin/Left wants us perpetually afraid. It’s how they’re able to assert their power. There will be “dangerous” COVID variants as long as they’re useful.

    Annefy (View Comment):
    Lastly, how do we know whether someone has the Delta version? It seems to me the testing has been hinky all along – I know many people who tested positive and had zero symptoms; I still have lingering symptoms and got a negative. (About which I didn’t care, BTW, since by then I knew nothing would be done regardless of the result)

    My (unvaccinated) sis-in-law has symptoms but has tested negative twice. She’s taking Ivermectin. 

    • #168
  19. MiMac Thatcher
    MiMac
    @MiMac

    Annefy (View Comment):

    @ mimac – you seem to understand the virus and the vaccine. My understanding was that there had never been a successful vaccine for any corona virus and I was quite adamant last year that there wouldn’t be one for Covid 19.

    Thought for awhile that I’d been proven wrong – I’m sorta back in the “wait and see” camp at this point. It may come down to how we measure “success”. I’m all about measuring lives lost, and if that number goes down it’s good news.

    Can I pick your brain, and get your opinion?

    I’m curious – if Covid has been reduced to just the sniffles, why does anyone care when someone tests positive, like the TX legislatures, Olympic athletes, etc. They’re not in danger, and they appear to putting other people in danger for a cold. Hardly news.

    Also, why were patients who were really ill with Covid refused therapeutics? I twice took people to the ER, only to have to go back and get them. They were refused admittance and any therapeutics. I don’t think I’ve ever had the flu, so I have nothing to compare it to. But surely there’s treatments. Or did we ignore all treatments while hanging on for the holy grail of the vaccine?

    Lastly, how do we know whether someone has the Delta version? It seems to me the testing has been hinky all along – I know many people who tested positive and had zero symptoms; I still have lingering symptoms and got a negative. (About which I didn’t care, BTW, since by then I knew nothing would be done regardless of the result)

    Consequently, when I hear numbers bandied about with confidence, I don’t pay much attention.

    Appreciate your thoughts.

    Annefy- I’ll try to briefly answer your questions:

    1) why was there never a coronavirus vax before? Lack of funding/urgency.

    a)For those coronavirus subtypes that cause the common cold, there was little reason to work on something that would only eliminate 1/6 of the colds out there-heck, presently many people refuse to be vaccinated against a coronavirus that has killed millions and is 95% effective. Try selling them a vax that is ~10-15% effective against a nonlifethreatening disease.

    b) after SARS & MERS were contained funding for the vaccine programs was cut. The Obama administration cut CDC funding and DEPLETED the national stockpile of PPE! They never placed any urgency on pandemics- just one example:

    https://thehill.com/policy/healthcare/206334-will-budget-cuts-hamper-us-response-to-mers
    2)why worry if it just the sniffles- b/c for the unvaccinated it is still a serious problem and many aren’t vaccinated. The hospital system I work at has gone from zero COVID patients ~5 weeks ago to 16 admitted with 9 in ICU. The vast majority are unvaccinated- most vaccinated are asymptomatic.

    3)why deny therapeutics- b/c realistically there aren’t any good ones at present. The best drug is dexamethasone & it is for severe COVID. COVID is 2 problems- the viral infection itself and the resulting inflammatory  response which causes widespread tissue damage. We lack good anti-viral meds for COVID and we have a poor understanding of modulating the inflammatory response. Both are actively being investigated and hopefully we will get better answers. We need drugs for early COVID ( anti-virals) and drugs for severe COVID ( at that point inflammatory regulators will likely be crucial). Obviously if we have a good and convenient anti-viral the need for the inflammatory regulators will be less b/c we can hopefully reduce the rate in which the massive immune/inflammatory response occurs. The need for preventing the patient’s inflammatory response from causing tissue damage is well known but difficult to study. A quick thought experiment- if I give you a drug to lessen your immune response early on ( to prevent possible tissue damage- innocent bystander tissues that are damaged by the body’s fighting off the virus)-I could worsen your infection b/c you need your immune response to contain the infection- so you will in fact get sicker rather than better by the medical intervention. Prevention of lung/end organ damage from inflammation has been the topic of research for a quite awhile and there is much to do- it is in fact the cause of many ICU deaths.

    4) how much delta virus is really out there is hard to quantify- not only are many not being tested, but many are testing themselves (not in itself bad- but the data then isn’t collected) plus not all tests give you subtype analysis. Scott Gottlieb is a good source on the current status of the outbreak.

    • #169
  20. J Climacus Member
    J Climacus
    @JClimacus

    MiMac (View Comment):

     

    https://thehill.com/policy/healthcare/206334-will-budget-cuts-hamper-us-response-to-mers
    2)why worry if it just the sniffles- b/c for the unvaccinated it is still a serious problem and many aren’t vaccinated. The hospital system I work at has gone from zero COVID patients ~5 weeks ago to 16 admitted with 9 in ICU. The vast majority are unvaccinated- most vaccinated are asymptomatic.

    I wonder about other characteristics of the 16 admitted besides vaccination status. How many have co-morbidities, for instance? Are they young healthy individuals or elderly and obese? From what I understand of the statistics, it is very rare for young, healthy people to have a case of COVID serious enough to require hospitalization. I think most everyone, even the strong anti-vaxxers, agree that the elderly and people with co-morbidities should get the vaccine. The objection is to universal vaccination even for people who stand a statistically minute chance of a critical case of the disease. So is your hospital being swamped with young, healthy people, or people who everyone agrees should be vaccinated?

     

     

    • #170
  21. Annefy Member
    Annefy
    @Annefy

    @mimac – thank you for your response. 

    Not responding to your individual points, as I am no way qualified to do so, I’m going to respond a little more macro so you can understand where my head’s at 

    At 62, I have had prescriptions shoved in my face every single time I go to the doc since I was about 50. I’ve had the same doc for over 10 years – I could pass him on the street and he wouldn’t recognize me. Because when I’m in his company all he is doing is staring at a screen. 

    He makes drug recommendations based upon what he is seeing on that screen. And his reaction is what I call “typically Yankee” – in that all he does is reach for his pad. There’s never been a recommendation to lose a few LBs, to eat better, or to get more exercise. 

    When I went bald, all he wanted to do was write me a prescription. I told him no (again) as  what I was going through was an appropriate to my then life circumstances 

    I have friends in their 80s, friends who are over weight, friends with diabetes. I think they’d be nuts to not get the vaccine. 

    That’s not me  

    Why is messaging and actions not more tailored to individuals? Sure masks might make sense in certain settings – but the need for my grand daughters at 5 and 4 to wear one was stupid and destructive  

    In addition, I have no illusion that anyone in the medical field or elsewhere actually cares about our health. They don’t. I have seen neglect and the lack of medical attention these past 18 months that borders on torture. 

    In addition, there’s been no messaging about actions the individual can take to remove some risk factors. Like losing weight, vitamin D etc. in fact, every single piece of advice that we’ve been given has been wrong (as in get inside and stay inside). Which further convinced me that this is not about our health, and never has been. 

    So it’s no surprise that when I am being told to get this new vaccine, I’m reluctant. I don’t think I need it, and I wonder why they want me to get it. And it’s destructive and stupid that all the young people in my family are being pressured similarly. Half of them have already had Covid, and the best thing to happen would be for the other half to get it so they have immunity. 

    After seeing the level of damn near criminal mismanagement and outright lying for the past 18 months, there’s no way I’m going to afford any trust at this point. 

    I will continue with my attitude of my health being my responsibility. And continue merrily on my way. 

    • #171
  22. J Climacus Member
    J Climacus
    @JClimacus

    Annefy (View Comment):

    @ mimac – thank you for your response.

    I will continue with my attitude of my health being my responsibility. And continue merrily on my way.

    Well said. I’m 58, in good health and a marathon runner. I never get the flu vaccine and I’ve never had a bad case of the flu. I see no reason to get a vaccine.  My policy is, all else being equal, minimal medical intervention is best. If I was 94 like my father, then of course I would get the vaccine. Even if there is some small danger with it, COVID in his case is far more dangerous, very likely lethal. 

    But not for me. I’ve not heard any good evidence that COVID poses any special danger to me, and I’d rather get it and develop natural immunity than trust a hastily developed Big Pharma product. Who knows, I may have had it already. I’ve not been tested and I had what felt like a cold last winter. 

    The government has relentlessly pushed vaccination while doing nothing to educate the population on healthy living that would reduce the co-morbidities we know are strongly correlated with adverse COVID outcomes – principally obesity. Why? For the same reason Fauci lied about infection rates last summer: He was afraid people would become complacent. It’s all about perception management. Since they want people to get vaccinated, they push vaccination as the holy grail of COVID response and minimize other approaches that minimize medical intervention. It’s disgusting.

     

    • #172
  23. James Salerno Inactive
    James Salerno
    @JamesSalerno

    J Climacus (View Comment):

    Annefy (View Comment):

    @ mimac – thank you for your response.

    I will continue with my attitude of my health being my responsibility. And continue merrily on my way.

    Well said. I’m 58, in good health and a marathon runner. I never get the flu vaccine and I’ve never had a bad case of the flu. I see no reason to get a vaccine. My policy is, all else being equal, minimal medical intervention is best. If I was 94 like my father, then of course I would get the vaccine. Even if there is some small danger with it, COVID in his case is far more dangerous, very likely lethal.

    But not for me. I’ve not heard any good evidence that COVID poses any special danger to me, and I’d rather get it and develop natural immunity than trust a hastily developed Big Pharma product. Who knows, I may have had it already. I’ve not been tested and I had what felt like a cold last winter.

    The government has relentlessly pushed vaccination while doing nothing to educate the population on healthy living that would reduce the co-morbidities we know are strongly correlated with adverse COVID outcomes – principally obesity. Why? For the same reason Fauci lied about infection rates last summer: He was afraid people would become complacent. It’s all about perception management. Since they want people to get vaccinated, they push vaccination as the holy grail of COVID response and minimize other approaches that minimize medical intervention. It’s disgusting.

     

    Exactly. The vaccine is a magic bean solution. Something conservatives always make fun of the left for. Eat healthy and exercise. It won’t make you invincible, but your immune system will be much stronger.

    But that’s not a one step solution and it requires hard work and self discipline. Taking care of your own house before you worry about others. Again, something the conservatives always blast the left for not doing.

    • #173
  24. Bob Thompson Member
    Bob Thompson
    @BobThompson

    James Salerno (View Comment):

    J Climacus (View Comment):

    Annefy (View Comment):

    @ mimac – thank you for your response.

    I will continue with my attitude of my health being my responsibility. And continue merrily on my way.

    Well said. I’m 58, in good health and a marathon runner. I never get the flu vaccine and I’ve never had a bad case of the flu. I see no reason to get a vaccine. My policy is, all else being equal, minimal medical intervention is best. If I was 94 like my father, then of course I would get the vaccine. Even if there is some small danger with it, COVID in his case is far more dangerous, very likely lethal.

    But not for me. I’ve not heard any good evidence that COVID poses any special danger to me, and I’d rather get it and develop natural immunity than trust a hastily developed Big Pharma product. Who knows, I may have had it already. I’ve not been tested and I had what felt like a cold last winter.

    The government has relentlessly pushed vaccination while doing nothing to educate the population on healthy living that would reduce the co-morbidities we know are strongly correlated with adverse COVID outcomes – principally obesity. Why? For the same reason Fauci lied about infection rates last summer: He was afraid people would become complacent. It’s all about perception management. Since they want people to get vaccinated, they push vaccination as the holy grail of COVID response and minimize other approaches that minimize medical intervention. It’s disgusting.

    Exactly. The vaccine is a magic bean solution. Something conservatives always make fun of the left for. Eat healthy and exercise. It won’t make you invincible, but your immune system will be much stronger.

    But that’s not a one step solution and it requires hard work and self discipline. Taking care of your own house before you worry about others. Again, something the conservatives always blast the left for not doing.

    I think in the early stages of the epidemic the reporting on deaths was more honest so we got some stats on some of the co-morbidities, although not much detail. Now, as the number of deaths does not really standout, the reporting on co-morbidities seems to have vanished. Is this my imagination?

    • #174
  25. CarolJoy, Not So Easy To Kill Coolidge
    CarolJoy, Not So Easy To Kill
    @CarolJoy

    MiMac (View Comment):

    CarolJoy, Not So Easy To Kill (View Comment):

    Richard Easton (View Comment):

    Here’s an interesting Twitter thread asserting that vaccines were oversold.


    That was an excellent presentation of real facts, & thanks for sharing it.

    95% efficacy of the mRNA vaccines put lie to most of the above discussion- a vaccine was in fact developed rapidly (altho the vaccine was the result of over 10 years of research). The delta virus has seemingly decreased the vaccines ability to reduce mild infection and transmission but the vaccine has still managed to protect against severe outcomes-which is the GOAL. No one cares if all that is spread is a runny nose & mild cough- if ICU admissions & death are greatly reduced it is a raving success.

    Roger Fritz@RogerFritz72h··Patriots RisingLet me get this straight…

    The vaxxed are getting “breakthrough infections” and it’s the unvaxxed’s fault.

    But the unvaxxed aren’t sick 🤔

    Ya’ know what’s mutating? I’ll tell ya:   The Lies!!

    • #175
  26. CarolJoy, Not So Easy To Kill Coolidge
    CarolJoy, Not So Easy To Kill
    @CarolJoy

    @MiMac

     

     

    The above ricochet member wanted some citation for the assertion that the flu vaccine  has a dire impact on the health of the elderly? Here it is:

     

    https://web.archive.org/web/20190501073703/https://newspunch.com/jama-study-flu-shots-killing-elderly/

    July 29th 2018
    Senior citizens are being killed in record numbers as a result of the flu vaccine, a disturbing JAMA study has found. According to data collected by the study, 60 percent of people aged 65-years and over have a massively increased risk of death if they receive the flu shot.

    Sharyl Attkisson, former investigative journalist for CBS, says the study highlights how those vaccines may actually be killing lives rather than saving them. From Inquisitr.com: In her blog, Attkisson cites a buried JAMA study from almost a decade ago which showed that there was no improvement in mortality rates among senior citizens with a flu vaccine, even after greatly increased vaccination rates. The study “got little attention,” she says, “because the science came down on the wrong side.”

    Whereas the researchers had set out to prove that the push for massive flu vaccination would save the world, the researchers were “astonished” to find that the data did not support their presupposition at all. The data actually shows that deaths increased, not decreased, among seniors following vaccination. Johns Hopkins scientist, Peter Doshi, Ph.D., issued a report in the prestigious British Medical Journal, according to NewsLI, asserting that the CDC policy of routinely recommending the flu vaccine is being based on “low quality studies that do not substantiate claims.”

    My comment: Peter Doshi PhD goes on to mention his finding of an extreme  lack of evidence for the notion the flu vaccine program reduces the fatality count among senior citizens. He then goes on to detail an Australian study which “which found significant risks for children as well, stating that ‘one in every 110 children under the age of five had convulsions following vaccinations in 2009 for H1N1 influenza.'”

    • #176
  27. Western Chauvinist Member
    Western Chauvinist
    @WesternChauvinist

    CarolJoy, Not So Easy To Kill (View Comment):
    Whereas the researchers had set out to prove that the push for massive flu vaccination would save the world, the researchers were “astonished” to find that the data did not support their presupposition at all.

    The language here discredits the article. No decent scientist believes he’s “saving the world” with anything, let alone flu vaccines which have been shown to be between 40 and 60 percent effective at best. So much of this is the post hoc, ergo propter hoc fallacy. 

    Contra what someone said above, the “death rate” from COVID at the beginning was not reliable because 1) people who died in motorcycle accidents or from fentanyl overdoses with COVID were counted as COVID deaths and 2) we had no idea what the denominator was — and still don’t —  because not everyone has had a serum test. Also, old, frail people die — news flash! I doubt very much these “studies” have proven they died from the flu vaccine. They could very well have died from the flu after being vaccinated, given the efficacy rate.

    Really. People are claiming to know things they can’t possibly know. It’s bad science.

    • #177
  28. CarolJoy, Not So Easy To Kill Coolidge
    CarolJoy, Not So Easy To Kill
    @CarolJoy

    Western Chauvinist (View Comment):

    CarolJoy, Not So Easy To Kill (View Comment):
    Whereas the researchers had set out to prove that the push for massive flu vaccination would save the world, the researchers were “astonished” to find that the data did not support their presupposition at all.

    The language here discredits the article. No decent scientist believes he’s “saving the world” with anything, let alone flu vaccines which have been shown to be between 40 and 60 percent effective at best. So much of this is the post hoc, ergo propter hoc fallacy.

    Contra what someone said above, the “death rate” from COVID at the beginning was not reliable because 1) people who died in motorcycle accidents or from fentanyl overdoses with COVID were counted as COVID deaths and 2) we had no idea what the denominator was — and still don’t — because not everyone has had a serum test. Also, old, frail people die — news flash! I doubt very much these “studies” have proven they died from the flu vaccine. They could very well have died from the flu after being vaccinated, given the efficacy rate.

    Really. People are claiming to know things they can’t possibly know. It’s bad science.

    Western Chauvinist (View Comment):

    CarolJoy, Not So Easy To Kill (View Comment):
    Whereas the researchers had set out to prove that the push for massive flu vaccination would save the world, the researchers were “astonished” to find that the data did not support their presupposition at all.

    The language here discredits the article. No decent scientist believes he’s “saving the world” with anything, let alone flu vaccines which have been shown to be between 40 and 60 percent effective at best. So much of this is the post hoc, ergo propter hoc fallacy.

    Contra what someone said above, the “death rate” from COVID at the beginning was not reliable because 1) people who died in motorcycle accidents or from fentanyl overdoses with COVID were counted as COVID deaths and 2) we had no idea what the denominator was — and still don’t — because not everyone has had a serum test. Also, old, frail people die — news flash! I doubt very much these “studies” have proven they died from the flu vaccine. They could very well have died from the flu after being vaccinated, given the efficacy rate.

    Really. People are claiming to know things they can’t possibly know. It’s bad science.

    Please: You need to re-read what I posted. Yesterday I made a claim which MiMac challenged, regarding the normal old flu and the vaccines for it. He wanted a citation on which I based the statement I made: that the normal old flu vaccine killed elderly people. 

    So bringing COVID into a discussion for which the citation is from 2018 seems a bit whack.

    Get your own reading skills in order before attacking mine, okay?

    • #178
  29. Western Chauvinist Member
    Western Chauvinist
    @WesternChauvinist

    CarolJoy, Not So Easy To Kill (View Comment):
    He wanted a citation on which I based the statement I made: that the normal old flu vaccine killed elderly people. 

    I simply don’t believe they’ve proven that the normal old flu vaccine kills elderly people. Prove it.

    • #179
  30. kedavis Coolidge
    kedavis
    @kedavis

    Western Chauvinist (View Comment):

    CarolJoy, Not So Easy To Kill (View Comment):
    He wanted a citation on which I based the statement I made: that the normal old flu vaccine killed elderly people.

    I simply don’t believe they’ve proven that the normal old flu vaccine kills elderly people. Prove it.

    I believe she cited a JAMA study.

    • #180
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