When Bureaucrats Gather

Richard Epstein brings his encyclopedic knowledge to help break down some of the pivotal matters being debated in Congress and before the Supreme Court. Plus, James and Rob look back on the Covid lockdowns four years later, along with Minneapolis’ move against Uber and Lyft.

 

 

 

 

  • Sound this week: Rep. Mike Gallagher (R – WI 08) on the Ingram Angle (FNC) speaking on TikTok

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There are 74 comments.

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  1. JuliaBach Coolidge
    JuliaBach
    @JuliaBach

    RufusRJones (View Comment):

    Bush 42 read a book about contagions, and he got all of the state health authorities to produce a plan to deal with it. Think of how long ago that was. They had the plan and then they ignored everything they planned out.

    They should have let COVID-19 spread like crazy among the healthy, and then let it die out on its own. They knew that and they didn’t do it. Supposedly, locking people up in their homes actually made it spread worse anyway. I suppose this was somewhat complicated by the risk of running out of medical resources in some areas at some times but look at all of the damage they created. They were still running out in some areas two months –during their outdoor season – – after the damn shot was being spread around. These people are idiots.

    Agreed that they had a plan, which did not involve extended lockdowns or school closures, and threw it out the window.  But we should stop asking public health to do impossible things.

    • #61
  2. RufusRJones Member
    RufusRJones
    @RufusRJones

    JuliaBach (View Comment):

    RufusRJones (View Comment):

    JuliaBach (View Comment):
    Why do you see a communicable illness as “perpetrating illegitimate force”?

    If people could ***actually*** do something to not kill or maim others with a highly communicable disease, I don’t care if they get forced to do it.

    JuliaBach (View Comment):
    Where is the agency?

    This is not an example of agency.

    You are making assumptions about public health behaving badly. I don’t see why that has to happen, but it definitely did during COVID-19.

    If you charge public health with *stopping* infectious respiratory disease outbreaks, public health is guaranteed to “behave badly”.

    What gives the govt the right to force people to participate in public health campaigns? Where does that right stop? Does it have any boundaries?

    If you legitimately have a decent vaccine that works, I don’t give a damn if they force everybody to take it. I suppose I would feel the same about other measures if they worked in a short amount of time. 

    • #62
  3. RufusRJones Member
    RufusRJones
    @RufusRJones

    JuliaBach (View Comment):

    RufusRJones (View Comment):

    JuliaBach (View Comment):
    https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/22414740/

    Fewer than 50% get the flu shot and how many years out of 10 do you ever see emergency coverage of a widespread outbreak in the news? Maybe one. Those are just facts. They mess up the flu vaccine about one year out of 10 or something. I suspect that research is public health propellerheads, doing the same thing they did during the COVID-19 outbreak.

     

    Reporting depends on who is President, and whether other narratives need to be pushed, such as climate change.

    Oh, sure.

    • #63
  4. kedavis Coolidge
    kedavis
    @kedavis

    JuliaBach (View Comment):

    kedavis (View Comment):

    I knew these things already – Mary refused to stop activities that spread the disease (i.e., working as a cook), she refused to believe that she was a carrier as she’d been healthy herself, wouldn’t even wash her hands regularly, and used various false names to escape detection – but this article I found today presents it all in a way that might be more convincing:

     

    https://www.history.com/news/10-things-you-may-not-know-about-typhoid-mary

    That’s a more fair article. We can’t ignore the context that immigrants, especially Irish, were looked upon poorly at that time in history. But I also don’t believe that the hundreds of other people with the same health status somehow magically managed not to infect a single person.

    Typhoid Mary’s story, to me, is a warning to check references.

    Maybe not a SINGLE person, but that happens today too, with flu etc.  But it’s not like they’re going around coughing and sneezing in peoples’ faces which would be closer to what Mary was doing.

    At that time, if they were washing their hands etc – which Mary apparently refused to do – that might be about the best that could be expected.

    • #64
  5. RufusRJones Member
    RufusRJones
    @RufusRJones

    JuliaBach (View Comment):
    But we should stop asking public health to do impossible things.

    ***Public health needs to say “no” on things that obviously don’t work or make everything worse.*** I never dreamed in a million years those guys would screw up so badly. Some of these people don’t even have any decent level of professional qualifications.

     

    • #65
  6. JuliaBach Coolidge
    JuliaBach
    @JuliaBach

    RufusRJones (View Comment):

    JuliaBach (View Comment):

    RufusRJones (View Comment):

    JuliaBach (View Comment):
    Why do you see a communicable illness as “perpetrating illegitimate force”?

    If people could ***actually*** do something to not kill or maim others with a highly communicable disease, I don’t care if they get forced to do it.

    JuliaBach (View Comment):
    Where is the agency?

    This is not an example of agency.

    You are making assumptions about public health behaving badly. I don’t see why that has to happen, but it definitely did during COVID-19.

    If you charge public health with *stopping* infectious respiratory disease outbreaks, public health is guaranteed to “behave badly”.

    What gives the govt the right to force people to participate in public health campaigns? Where does that right stop? Does it have any boundaries?

    If you legitimately have a decent vaccine that works, I don’t give a damn if they force everybody to take it. I suppose I would feel the same about other measures if they worked in a short amount of time.

    So we should ban the sale or use of alcohol and sugar?  That would do a lot to cure obesity.

    • #66
  7. JuliaBach Coolidge
    JuliaBach
    @JuliaBach

    kedavis (View Comment):

    JuliaBach (View Comment):

    kedavis (View Comment):

    I knew these things already – Mary refused to stop activities that spread the disease (i.e., working as a cook), she refused to believe that she was a carrier as she’d been healthy herself, wouldn’t even wash her hands regularly, and used various false names to escape detection – but this article I found today presents it all in a way that might be more convincing:

     

    https://www.history.com/news/10-things-you-may-not-know-about-typhoid-mary

    That’s a more fair article. We can’t ignore the context that immigrants, especially Irish, were looked upon poorly at that time in history. But I also don’t believe that the hundreds of other people with the same health status somehow magically managed not to infect a single person.

    Typhoid Mary’s story, to me, is a warning to check references.

    Maybe not a SINGLE person, but that happens today too, with flu etc. But it’s not like they’re going around coughing and sneezing in peoples’ faces which would be closer to what Mary was doing.

    At that time, if they were washing their hands etc – which Mary apparently refused to do – that might be about the best that could be expected.

    As my Twitter bio says, we invented DayQuil (TM) for a reason.

    • #67
  8. JuliaBach Coolidge
    JuliaBach
    @JuliaBach

    RufusRJones (View Comment):

    JuliaBach (View Comment):
    But we should stop asking public health to do impossible things.

    ***Public health needs to say “no” on things that obviously don’t work or make everything worse.*** I never dreamed in a million years those guys would screw up so badly. Some of these people don’t even have any decent level of professional qualifications.

     

    When people demand that you do impossible things, you’ll try anything in the hope that it might work.  Hail mary passes are a case in point.

    • #68
  9. RufusRJones Member
    RufusRJones
    @RufusRJones

    JuliaBach (View Comment):

    RufusRJones (View Comment):

    JuliaBach (View Comment):

    RufusRJones (View Comment):

    JuliaBach (View Comment):
    Why do you see a communicable illness as “perpetrating illegitimate force”?

    If people could ***actually*** do something to not kill or maim others with a highly communicable disease, I don’t care if they get forced to do it.

    JuliaBach (View Comment):
    Where is the agency?

    This is not an example of agency.

    You are making assumptions about public health behaving badly. I don’t see why that has to happen, but it definitely did during COVID-19.

    If you charge public health with *stopping* infectious respiratory disease outbreaks, public health is guaranteed to “behave badly”.

    What gives the govt the right to force people to participate in public health campaigns? Where does that right stop? Does it have any boundaries?

    If you legitimately have a decent vaccine that works, I don’t give a damn if they force everybody to take it. I suppose I would feel the same about other measures if they worked in a short amount of time.

    So we should ban the sale or use of alcohol and sugar? That would do a lot to cure obesity.

    Those aren’t the same as a contagion. 

    • #69
  10. RufusRJones Member
    RufusRJones
    @RufusRJones

    JuliaBach (View Comment):

    RufusRJones (View Comment):

    JuliaBach (View Comment):
    But we should stop asking public health to do impossible things.

    ***Public health needs to say “no” on things that obviously don’t work or make everything worse.*** I never dreamed in a million years those guys would screw up so badly. Some of these people don’t even have any decent level of professional qualifications.

     

    When people demand that you do impossible things, you’ll try anything in the hope that it might work. Hail mary passes are a case in point.

    I’m not talking about impossible things. I’m also not talking about the way public health behaved in this last contagion. 

     

     

    • #70
  11. JuliaBach Coolidge
    JuliaBach
    @JuliaBach

    RufusRJones (View Comment):

    JuliaBach (View Comment):

    RufusRJones (View Comment):

    JuliaBach (View Comment):

    RufusRJones (View Comment):

    JuliaBach (View Comment):
    Why do you see a communicable illness as “perpetrating illegitimate force”?

    If people could ***actually*** do something to not kill or maim others with a highly communicable disease, I don’t care if they get forced to do it.

    JuliaBach (View Comment):
    Where is the agency?

    This is not an example of agency.

    You are making assumptions about public health behaving badly. I don’t see why that has to happen, but it definitely did during COVID-19.

    If you charge public health with *stopping* infectious respiratory disease outbreaks, public health is guaranteed to “behave badly”.

    What gives the govt the right to force people to participate in public health campaigns? Where does that right stop? Does it have any boundaries?

    If you legitimately have a decent vaccine that works, I don’t give a damn if they force everybody to take it. I suppose I would feel the same about other measures if they worked in a short amount of time.

    So we should ban the sale or use of alcohol and sugar? That would do a lot to cure obesity.

    Those aren’t the same as a contagion.

    Who cares?  If public officials are tasked with stopping diseases, and there’s no limit to what they can force someone to do, why not ban alcohol and sugar?  No one needs these to survive, and it would greatly improve public health.

    • #71
  12. JuliaBach Coolidge
    JuliaBach
    @JuliaBach

    RufusRJones (View Comment):

    JuliaBach (View Comment):

    RufusRJones (View Comment):

    JuliaBach (View Comment):
    But we should stop asking public health to do impossible things.

    ***Public health needs to say “no” on things that obviously don’t work or make everything worse.*** I never dreamed in a million years those guys would screw up so badly. Some of these people don’t even have any decent level of professional qualifications.

    When people demand that you do impossible things, you’ll try anything in the hope that it might work. Hail mary passes are a case in point.

    I’m not talking about impossible things. I’m also not talking about the way public health behaved in this last contagion.

    Stopping a respiratory outbreak like SARS-CoV2 is impossible.  Measles and polio aren’t similar illnesses at all.  We have never developed a remotely effective vaccine for flu or a coronavirus.  It was insane to think we would do the impossible with our current technology, in a matter of months.

    • #72
  13. RufusRJones Member
    RufusRJones
    @RufusRJones

    JuliaBach (View Comment):

    RufusRJones (View Comment):

    JuliaBach (View Comment):

    RufusRJones (View Comment):

    JuliaBach (View Comment):

    RufusRJones (View Comment):

    JuliaBach (View Comment):
    Why do you see a communicable illness as “perpetrating illegitimate force”?

    If people could ***actually*** do something to not kill or maim others with a highly communicable disease, I don’t care if they get forced to do it.

    JuliaBach (View Comment):
    Where is the agency?

    This is not an example of agency.

    You are making assumptions about public health behaving badly. I don’t see why that has to happen, but it definitely did during COVID-19.

    If you charge public health with *stopping* infectious respiratory disease outbreaks, public health is guaranteed to “behave badly”.

    What gives the govt the right to force people to participate in public health campaigns? Where does that right stop? Does it have any boundaries?

    If you legitimately have a decent vaccine that works, I don’t give a damn if they force everybody to take it. I suppose I would feel the same about other measures if they worked in a short amount of time.

    So we should ban the sale or use of alcohol and sugar? That would do a lot to cure obesity.

    Those aren’t the same as a contagion.

    Who cares? If public officials are tasked with stopping diseases, and there’s no limit to what they can force someone to do, why not ban alcohol and sugar? No one needs these to survive, and it would greatly improve public health.

    We have a different understanding of the technical role of public health. We are done discussing this.

    • #73
  14. RufusRJones Member
    RufusRJones
    @RufusRJones

    JuliaBach (View Comment):

    RufusRJones (View Comment):

    JuliaBach (View Comment):
    Why do you see a communicable illness as “perpetrating illegitimate force”?

    If people could ***actually*** do something to not kill or maim others with a highly communicable disease, I don’t care if they get forced to do it.

    JuliaBach (View Comment):
    Where is the agency?

    This is not an example of agency.

    You are making assumptions about public health behaving badly. I don’t see why that has to happen, but it definitely did during COVID-19.

    If you charge public health with *stopping* infectious respiratory disease outbreaks, public health is guaranteed to “behave badly”.

    What gives the govt the right to force people to participate in public health campaigns? Where does that right stop? Does it have any boundaries?

    There are some situations that can only be stopped with government force.

    • #74
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