This week, we bring you two very different views of the current state of the Republican Party courtesy of two of the smartest observers we could find. First, former RNC chair and Mississippi governor Haley Barbour stops by to remind us to be adults and remember that Donald Trump will be a better president than Hillary Clinton. But later, the great Charles Murray (read his incredible essay “Trump’s America” here) makes the opposite case: Trump will be an unmitigated disaster to be avoided at all costs. It’s a stark contrast in views and — take our word for it — required listening. Where do you fall? Let us know in the comments.  Note: this podcast is quite a bit longer than usual, but we thought this conversation warranted it.

Music from this week’s episode:

When The Word Ends by Dave Matthews Band

The opening sequence for the Ricochet Podcast was composed and produced by James Lileks.

Yes, you should absolutely subscribe to this podcast. It helps!

Support Our Sponsors

Ricochet400This podcast is brought to you by Hillsdale College and their Constitution 101 course. You can sign up for FREE today. Once you start the course, you’ll receive a new lecture every week to watch on demand, along with readings, discussion boards, and more. Sign up for Constitution 101 for FREE at Hillsdale.edu/Ricochet

 

 

 

Screen Shot 2015-02-20 at 8.56.20 AMThis podcast is brought to you by Harry’s Shave. For the finest shave at the best price, got Harrys.com and use the coupon code RICOCHET at checkout.

 

 

 

mzl.zlixsgsv

 

 

For a limited time stream The Fundamentals of Photography from The Great Courses Plus for Free. Go to TheGreatCoursesPlus.com/Ricochet

 

Subscribe to The Ricochet Podcast in Apple Podcasts (and leave a 5-star review, please!), or by RSS feed. For all our podcasts in one place, subscribe to the Ricochet Audio Network Superfeed in Apple Podcasts or by RSS feed.

Now become a Ricochet member for only $5.00 a month! Join and see what you’ve been missing.

There are 69 comments.

Become a member to join the conversation. Or sign in if you're already a member.
  1. Spin Coolidge
    Spin
    @Spin

    When will Ann Coulter be on, so I can be sure to miss it.  Ok, that was mean.  Sorry.  ;-)

    • #1
  2. katievs Inactive
    katievs
    @katievs

    I can’t listen to Haley Barbour after his machine’s support for Thad Cochran against a true conservative in the last race. The man seems to have sold his soul.

    • #2
  3. Douglas Inactive
    Douglas
    @Douglas

    katievs:I can’t listen to Haley Barbour after his machine’s support for Thad Cochran against a true conservative in the last race. The man seems to have sold his soul.

    While everything you say is true, I think the bigger truth is this question: Who hasn’t sold their soul in Washington DC? Especially on our side. I think if we’re honest, we’re going to find that it’s a very, very short list.

    The revolt proceeds, and we’ve reached the stage where the various factions have realized they can’t stop it, and are now engaged in rice bowl protection mode.

    • #3
  4. Scott R Member
    Scott R
    @ScottR

    I’m waiting for ej’s photoshop for “A Raised Middle Finger”. Peter flipping the bird is an inconceivable image. Rob? Yeah, that’s not hard to picture.

    • #4
  5. Benjamin Glaser Inactive
    Benjamin Glaser
    @BenjaminGlaser

    I just skipped over Haley’s comments and went to Charles Murray. As a resident of Mississippi I echo Katievs’s comments. It was worse than you can imagine. It was so bad many McDaniel supporters have dropped out of any political action since then.

    Re-reading Dr. Murray’s Coming Apart and it is just a screenplay for the Trump menace.

    He foresaw this and told everyone it would happen.

    • #5
  6. BD Member
    BD
    @

    Wow, I thought he was gone for good.

    • #6
  7. katievs Inactive
    katievs
    @katievs

    Douglas:

    katievs:I can’t listen to Haley Barbour after his machine’s support for Thad Cochran against a true conservative in the last race. The man seems to have sold his soul.

    While everything you say is true, I think the bigger truth is this question: Who hasn’t sold their soul in Washington DC? Especially on our side. I think if we’re honest, we’re going to find that it’s a very, very short list.

    Cruz hasn’t. Mike Lee hasn’t. It’s early days yet, but so far Ben Sasse hasn’t—and I even have good hope that he won’t. He seems like the genuine article. I can think of several congressman, among them Jeff Fortenberry and David Brat, who are still on the straight and narrow.

    And then there’s a large class of middle ground types—politicians who have maybe made some bad comprises with the other side, but who aren’t utter sellouts. They’re still good men and patriots, trying to advance the conservative cause according to their best lights. I put Paul Ryan, Pat Toomey, and many others in this class.

    • #7
  8. Nick Stuart Inactive
    Nick Stuart
    @NickStuart

    Murray’s column is behind the WSJ paywall.

    While no doubt everyone who counts in Belmont has a subscription, that’s not the case here in Fishtown. That seems to indicate a relevant discontinuity in Murray’s thinking.

    • #8
  9. mask Inactive
    mask
    @mask

    Haley Barbour’s lament of the poor picked on GOP leadership indicates he needs to read Paul Rahe’s most recent ricochet post (spoiler alert: The GOP leadership lied and are reaping the whirlwind of their lies and failures and capitulations they didn’t have to make).

    Mr Barbour can’t have it both ways – either conservative media can tell their audiences that GOP politicians are lying to them during campaigns or they can hold GOP politicians to their promises once elected.  Pick one.

    • #9
  10. civil westman Inactive
    civil westman
    @user_646399

    Nick Stuart:Murray’s column is behind the WSJ paywall.

    While no doubt everyone who counts in Belmont has a subscription, that’s not the case here in Fishtown. That seems to indicate a relevant discontinuity in Murray’s thinking.

    A bit of “entrepreneurial” activity in the form of a Google search brought me quickly to a link to the article on the AEI website – for FREE. This shows, once again, the efficacy of self-interest (a.k.a. a touch of greed) and individual incentive.

    The thrust of the essay, as I see it, is that both Belmont and Fishtown are doomed to reenact something resembling Germany in the 1930’s – whether through Trump or some other authoritarian. As Murray explains, only the “American creed” as defined by Samuel Huntington permitted the previous iteration of America to be the unique nation that it was (emphasis mine).

    • #10
  11. Yudansha Member
    Yudansha
    @Yudansha

    Haley Barbour is a reptile.  His words are poison.

    • #11
  12. Frank Soto Contributor
    Frank Soto
    @FrankSoto

    …Haley Barbour stops by to remind us to be adults and remember that Donald Trump will…

    Under no circumstances.

    • #12
  13. Kate Braestrup Member
    Kate Braestrup
    @GrannyDude

    I agreed with Charles Murray—“If Hillary is president, the Democrats will own her mistakes. If Trump is president, the Republican party will own his mistakes.” And he will make big, big mistakes.

    • #13
  14. Lily Bart Inactive
    Lily Bart
    @LilyBart

    #NeverHaley

    EVER.

    There are some things you just don’t forgive.

    • #14
  15. Douglas Inactive
    Douglas
    @Douglas

    Nick Stuart:Murray’s column is behind the WSJ paywall.

    While no doubt everyone who counts in Belmont has a subscription, that’s not the case here in Fishtown. That seems to indicate a relevant discontinuity in Murray’s thinking.

    Even prophets gotta profit.

    • #15
  16. Blue Yeti Admin
    Blue Yeti
    @BlueYeti

    Nick Stuart:Murray’s column is behind the WSJ paywall.

    While no doubt everyone who counts in Belmont has a subscription, that’s not the case here in Fishtown. That seems to indicate a relevant discontinuity in Murray’s thinking.

    We put the column here (don’t tell the WSJ).

    • #16
  17. Lily Bart Inactive
    Lily Bart
    @LilyBart

    katievs:I can’t listen to Haley Barbour after his machine’s support for Thad Cochran against a true conservative in the last race. The man seems to have sold his soul.

    It wasn’t just ‘support’.   The Barbour family played dirty for this win.

    • #17
  18. katievs Inactive
    katievs
    @katievs

    Lily Bart:

    katievs:I can’t listen to Haley Barbour after his machine’s support for Thad Cochran against a true conservative in the last race. The man seems to have sold his soul.

    It wasn’t just ‘support’. The Barbour family played dirty for this win.

    You’re right. Support is too mild a term. I won’t change it now, because it’s been “liked” as is and I don’t want to misrepresent anyone else. But it would have been truer to my idea of what went down to have said something more like:

    “…after he and his machine the cut the legs out from under a true conservative to prop up their tool, Thad Cochran.”

    • #18
  19. Lily Bart Inactive
    Lily Bart
    @LilyBart

    BD:Wow, I thought he was gone for good.

    He should be.

    • #19
  20. Douglas Inactive
    Douglas
    @Douglas

    Lily Bart:

    katievs:I can’t listen to Haley Barbour after his machine’s support for Thad Cochran against a true conservative in the last race. The man seems to have sold his soul.

    It wasn’t just ‘support’. The Barbour family played dirty for this win.

    Even next door here in Alabama, we were going “Wow, that’s dirty”.

    • #20
  21. Rightfromthestart Coolidge
    Rightfromthestart
    @Rightfromthestart

    Man, I’m twisted into all kinds of knots to find myself agreeing with Haley Barbour and disagreeing with Charles Murray but I can never ever countenance Hillary Clinton as President , I don’t care for Trump but he might just accidentally swerve into the right thing , with Hillary not a chance.  And by the way, since when do Democrats ‘own’ their mistakes?  Dodd -Frank, anyone? If you ask anyone under 50 who was President during Vietnam they’ll answer Nixon, 1962-1969? , down the memory hole. Hillary can destroy both the world and the country and be hailed as the greatest President ever.

    One fear I have is that this whole thing is a set-up between Trump and the Clintons and that Trump and Bill will be laughing it up on the golf course in December.

    • #21
  22. Tyler Boliver Member
    Tyler Boliver
    @Marlowe

    katievs:I can’t listen to Haley Barbour after his machine’s support for Thad Cochran against a true conservative in the last race. The man seems to have sold his soul.

    Glad we agree Kate. Men like Mr. Barbour is the biggest problem with the system that we have. Dr. Murray is right as usual.

    • #22
  23. Basil Fawlty Member
    Basil Fawlty
    @BasilFawlty

    Wasn’t Merrick the Elephant Man?

    • #23
  24. Salvatore Padula Inactive
    Salvatore Padula
    @SalvatorePadula

    Let’s clarify one important thing. Trump is not a “great big middle finger” raised to the establishment. We’re talking about Trump here. He’s a freakishly short and stubby middle finger raised to the establishment.

    • #24
  25. Tyler Boliver Member
    Tyler Boliver
    @Marlowe

    Salvatore Padula:Let’s clarify one important thing. Trump is not a “great big middle finger” raised to the establishment. We’re talking about Trump here. He’s a freakishly short and stubby middle finger raised to the establishment.

    I don’t even think he is that to be honest. I don’t see how a billionaire who gave millions to politicians for decades gets to pretend to be an “outsider”.

    But his hands are small and stubby. No doubt of that.

    • #25
  26. RyanM Member
    RyanM
    @RyanM

    What minute do I skip to for Murray? I don’t have the patience or intestinal fortitude for Barbour’s crap today.

    • #26
  27. Eugene Kriegsmann Member
    Eugene Kriegsmann
    @EugeneKriegsmann

    A great podcast, well worth the time and effort. Thank you.

    • #27
  28. Basil Fawlty Member
    Basil Fawlty
    @BasilFawlty

    Well, so much for Frostburg State.

    • #28
  29. Kate Braestrup Member
    Kate Braestrup
    @GrannyDude

    Incidentally, I drove past a barn today with a sign stapled to it reading “TRUMP: At last, someone with BALLS!”

    I found myself thinking, “well, faux-balls…” and then composing limericks…

    • #29
  30. Kate Braestrup Member
    Kate Braestrup
    @GrannyDude

    Basil Fawlty:Well, so much for Frostburg State.

    I went to middle school in Thurmont, Maryland and all my teachers had gone to Frostburg State. Hadn’t heard that name for years!

    • #30
Become a member to join the conversation. Or sign in if you're already a member.