Life During Wartime

Settle in, shelter-in-placers, we’ve got another super-sized (and shall we say, impassioned) edition of the Ricochet Podcast. In addition to the robust debaters, we’ve got Deb Saunders (self-quarantined from an undisclosed location) and Arthur Brooks who provides some much needed optimism in these dark days.

Music from this week’s show: Life During Wartime by Talking Heads

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  1. Cmoore Coolidge
    Cmoore
    @Cmoore

    More Arthur Brooks please. 

    • #121
  2. Blue Yeti Admin
    Blue Yeti
    @BlueYeti

    Cmoore (View Comment):

    More Arthur Brooks please.

    Stay tuned…

    • #122
  3. Nerina Bellinger Inactive
    Nerina Bellinger
    @NerinaBellinger

    For anyone who has time to listen to podcasts, I recommend Scott Adams, who is Periscoping twice a day. We are living in trying times. I am choosing to spend my listening time with people who are smart, well informed and optimistic.

    Thanks for this recommendation, @annefy!

    • #123
  4. EB Thatcher
    EB
    @EB

    Samuel Block (View Comment):
    The disagreement was vehement, but impressively civil.

    I disagree.  Every time Peter asked Rob to justify his position, Peter would interrupt Rob two words in and start screaming,Including, “You’re wrong, you’re wrong”.  He always monopolizes the podcasts, but this is absolutely the worst and rudest I have heard him be. @peterrobinson

     

    • #124
  5. kedavis Coolidge
    kedavis
    @kedavis

    EB (View Comment):

    Samuel Block (View Comment):
    The disagreement was vehement, but impressively civil.

    I disagree. Every time Peter asked Rob to justify his position, Peter would interrupt Rob two words in and start screaming,Including, “You’re wrong, you’re wrong”. He always monopolizes the podcasts, but this is absolutely the worst and rudest I have heard him be. @peterrobinson

    Yes, and even if it wasn’t his intent, it sure sounded to me like Peter was basically obsessed with the employment difficulties being presently faced by his own children.  Well, LOTS of people have LOTS of problems, especially now.

    • #125
  6. Annefy Member
    Annefy
    @Annefy

    EB (View Comment):

    Samuel Block (View Comment):
    The disagreement was vehement, but impressively civil.

    I disagree. Every time Peter asked Rob to justify his position, Peter would interrupt Rob two words in and start screaming,Including, “You’re wrong, you’re wrong”. He always monopolizes the podcasts, but this is absolutely the worst and rudest I have heard him be. @peterrobinson

    I am still rather annoyed about it. @peterrobinson came across as arrogant, impatient and  self-absorbed. He appeared to be completely oblivious to the fact that we are all suffering. Or indifferent. 

    It’s a rare rico flagship podcast I have missed in the past. I do believe I’ve been put off for future ones.

    • #126
  7. Annefy Member
    Annefy
    @Annefy

    Nerina Bellinger (View Comment):

    For anyone who has time to listen to podcasts, I recommend Scott Adams, who is Periscoping twice a day. We are living in trying times. I am choosing to spend my listening time with people who are smart, well informed and optimistic.

    Thanks for this recommendation, @annefy!

    You’re welcome. He’s a good follow on Twitter, also. 

    • #127
  8. Lois Lane Coolidge
    Lois Lane
    @LoisLane

    I don’t understand the criticism of @peterrobison at all.

    He was using his family’s experience as an illustration of what’s happening times millions all across the country.

    We just did curbside pickup for dinner, and the restaurant owner told us he’d laid off 80 of his employees, some of whom had worked for him for almost two decades, and he’s just hoping he can keep his head above water until this passes….

    When he shared this personal pain, should I have said, “Hey, dude.  Suck it up, man.  Don’t you know all the other restaurants on this same street are experiencing the same thing?  Do you think you’re entitled somehow to revenue?  Do you know what this business looked like in the 70s?  Did you think people would buy food from you forever?”

    Ummm….

    Peter has a perspective, and Rob has a perspective.

    I personally align more with Peter’s views, but I don’t think that Rob doesn’t care about other Americans or is some entitled butthead because he pushed back with a different position.

    This is why I think the media has at times been ridiculous when splicing and dicing the Trump press conferences.

    While he hasn’t been perfect in every response in what are very long back and forths, what person is perfect?  Especially in this sort of situation?  There’s a lot of stress.  Of course there will sometimes be some snapping at your co-host or some snapping at journalists.  Everyone is a bit frayed.  (My poor, poor husband can tell you about the not-so-perfect Lois he’s stuck with!)

    I thought the exchange was, actually, quite civil considering the emotion involved, and both simply held on until their views were clear, and they brought it around to do the rest of the show with a lower temperature.

    Arthur Brooks is, also, always great.  I agree with that!!!  I’ve long found listening to him soothing.

    Finally, the Ricochet Podcast is my favorite one on Ricochet.  I think they are fair, which is all I want.  And funny.

    Anyway, I just felt like defending those guys just a little bit.

    While I have disagreed with some people in this thread, there is no acrimony.  I intend no ill will at all.  I’m pretty sure Peter and Rob are good friends.

    I actually hope all of you are well in your homes.

    Me?  I just finished watching the president’s latest update while drinking a glass of wine.

    I liked his defense of federalism, the pushback against nationalizing industry, and the stress on 15 days, even if they won’t totally commit to changing strategy in that timeframe….

    • #128
  9. RufusRJones Member
    RufusRJones
    @RufusRJones

    I am 100% with Lois Lane’s post. The flagship is always good. Almost every guest is excellent.  On the weekends I want to hear something different from regular talk radio, and it always delivers. When they complain about Trump I never feel like my intelligence is insulted. People freakout over and over as if it’s David Frum or Mona Charen wigging about Trump  and I just can’t relate. 

    • #129
  10. TallCon Inactive
    TallCon
    @TallCon

    I simultaneously think Peter was using his own experience to extrapolate out what others in the country might be experiencing rather than obsessing about his own children AND didn’t give Rob enough room to talk. (It might be that they’ve had this argument before off air but we didn’t get to hear that.)

    Great podcast. 

    • #130
  11. RufusRJones Member
    RufusRJones
    @RufusRJones

    It looks to me like @adamhousley has a very good source about what is going on with the virus drugs. 

    • #131
  12. Lois Lane Coolidge
    Lois Lane
    @LoisLane

    TallCon (View Comment):

    I simultaneously think Peter was using his own experience to extrapolate out what others in the country might be experiencing rather than obsessing about his own children AND didn’t give Rob enough room to talk. (It might be that they’ve had this argument before off air but we didn’t get to hear that.)

    Great podcast.

    Fair enough!!!!  (You are a diplomat!)  :)

    • #132
  13. TallCon Inactive
    TallCon
    @TallCon

    Lois Lane (View Comment):

    TallCon (View Comment):

    I simultaneously think Peter was using his own experience to extrapolate out what others in the country might be experiencing rather than obsessing about his own children AND didn’t give Rob enough room to talk. (It might be that they’ve had this argument before off air but we didn’t get to hear that.)

    Great podcast.

    Fair enough!!!! (You are a diplomat!) :)

    Apparently only here.  Thank you!

    • #133
  14. Annefy Member
    Annefy
    @Annefy

    TallCon (View Comment):

    I simultaneously think Peter was using his own experience to extrapolate out what others in the country might be experiencing rather than obsessing about his own children AND didn’t give Rob enough room to talk. (It might be that they’ve had this argument before off air but we didn’t get to hear that.)

    Great podcast.

    It is not what others  in the country “might be experiencing”. It’s exactly what just about everyone in California who can’t work from home IS experiencing. 

    I had a friend complain bitterly about her stock portfolio and how much she’s lost. I finally stopped her and said “everyone with money in the market has lost. Stop complaining”. She replied it was harder for her because she had bigger investments than me. 

    I am trying to figure out a way that I can convince her mandatory social distancing applies to phone calls …

    • #134
  15. Lois Lane Coolidge
    Lois Lane
    @LoisLane

    Annefy (View Comment):

    I had a friend complain bitterly about her stock portfolio and how much she’s lost. I finally stopped her and said “everyone with money in the market has lost. Stop complaining”. She replied it was harder for her because she had bigger investments than me. 

    Well.. In that case… that was pretty self-centered, bone-headed thing for your friend to say.  I mean… wow.  

    Annefy (View Comment):
    I am trying to figure out a way that I can convince her mandatory social distancing applies to phone calls …

    It’s good to have a sense of humor.  :)

    • #135
  16. EB Thatcher
    EB
    @EB

    Annefy (View Comment):
    I had a friend complain bitterly about her stock portfolio and how much she’s lost.

    Of course, if she doesn’t sell her stocks, she really hasn’t lost anything.  

    • #136
  17. LibertyDefender Member
    LibertyDefender
    @LibertyDefender

    RufusRJones (View Comment):

    ericB (View Comment):
    If we held our breath in pervasive seclusion for 3 weeks, bringing new infections to zero, and then returned to normal, we would have only delayed matters by about 3 weeks. No one gets immunity from temporary seclusion, the virus does not become any less communicable, and it takes only one infected person to restart the spread.

    I’m not going to get into a big argument about this, but this is not what I heard. What happens during this time is, the herd immunity curve improves and spreading curve declines. Tons of people that catch it don’t get that wiped out. The virus dies on people that have the herd immunity.

    Whether they did this soon enough, or long enough is another question. They won’t know until weeks later. If this was North Korea we could just shut it down until we saw the numbers go down. (This is why it’s better if your government “saves up” for pandemics.)

    What I keep waiting to hear, but have not yet heard, is that the SARS-CoV-2 virus that causes CoViD19 is going to die – and soon.  SARS-CoV-2 is a genetic mutation of the virus that caused SARS in February-March 2003.  That 2003 virus ceases to exist, and has been dead and gone since summer of 2003.  SARS 2003 was far more deadly than is COVID19.

    Add to SARS-CoV-2’s inevitable demise the apparent effectiveness of the proven safe drug chloroquine (I took chloroquine for what must have been a month in 1987 while traveling through the southern Caribbean and Venezuela, with no side effects and no malaria), I see no justification for a government mandated, Great Depression-inducing, national economic shutdown.

    Well over 80% of the potential victims of SARS-CoV-2 are easily identifiable: primarily the elderly with underlying health issues, especially weakened respiratory and immune systems.  We can isolate them with little to no loss of productivity.

    Finally, remove the requirement for a prescription to obtain the proven safe chloroquine.

    This “crisis” is already over if we want it to be, at very little cost.  Now that the Saudis have dropped gasoline prices to $1.409/gallon, we can go zero-to-GDP in 3 months.

    • #137
  18. kedavis Coolidge
    kedavis
    @kedavis

    Lois Lane (View Comment):

    I don’t understand the criticism of @peterrobison at all.

    He was using his family’s experience as an illustration of what’s happening times millions all across the country.

    We just did curbside pickup for dinner, and the restaurant owner told us he’d laid off 80 of his employees, some of whom had worked for him for almost two decades, and he’s just hoping he can keep his head above water until this passes….

    When he shared this personal pain, should I have said, “Hey, dude. Suck it up, man. Don’t you know all the other restaurants on this same street are experiencing the same thing? Do you think you’re entitled somehow to revenue? Do you know what this business looked like in the 70s? Did you think people would buy food from you forever?”

    Ummm….

    Peter has a perspective, and Rob has a perspective.

    I personally align more with Peter’s views, but I don’t think that Rob doesn’t care about other Americans or is some entitled butthead because he pushed back with a different position.

    In a way, whether Peter was only – or mostly – really concerned about his own children, or about “the children” in general, is less important than his apparent attitude that these measures to try and deal with a deadly virus aren’t justified Because The IPOs, or whatever.

     

    • #138
  19. RufusRJones Member
    RufusRJones
    @RufusRJones

    This seems like a pretty sensible interview with an actual pandemic scientist. One of the things he says you have to do is smash the curve and then figure out which healthcare workers have developed immunity. The same amount of people get sick or die but it allows the system to manage it better.

    https://www.wired.com/story/coronavirus-interview-larry-brilliant-smallpox-epidemiologist/?utm_source=twitter&utm_medium=social&utm_campaign=onsite-share&utm_brand=wired&utm_social-type=earned

     

     

    • #139
  20. RufusRJones Member
    RufusRJones
    @RufusRJones

    I thought this was quite good but you could say the same thing about the federal government and most state and local governments. Fed policy generates too much leverage and  debt. What good are artificially inflated assets?  Three minutes. 

     

     

     

    • #140
  21. RufusRJones Member
    RufusRJones
    @RufusRJones

    One epidemiologist said yesterday that the majority of people in the NYC metro area (NY, NJ, CT) and in MA have been exposed. A guess, though. Exposed but not ill is good. You get herd immunity. It is happening now, for sure. Probably in CA too. Most viral spread is probably by people without symptoms who assume they are clear.  

     

    So what is a “death rate” based on in the absence of relevant data, ie deaths/exposed? So the danger of this virus, right now, can not be determined or even estimated. That might be knowable in a few months.

     

    As we have said before, the goal is to try to flatten the exposure curve (speed of exposure), not to prevent exposure because that really cannot be done unless you isolate on an island somewhere for 6 months.  

    http://maggiesfarm.anotherdotcom.com/archives/34742-Why-you-cant-believe-illness-statistics-right-now.html

    • #141
  22. RufusRJones Member
    RufusRJones
    @RufusRJones

    LibertyDefender (View Comment):
    Now that the Saudis have dropped gasoline prices to $1.409/gallon, we can go zero-to-GDP in 3 months.

    I heard a very interesting fact related to this. It’s obvious, but I have never thought of it before.

    When the Federal Reserve forces down interest rates, it makes junk debt more viable i.e. it makes fracking more viable.  The oil price is the biggest issue in the inflation calculation because of the way it goes through the cost chain. When they lower the interest rate, it lowers the cost of government debt interest and it doesn’t create inflation like you would normally expect because of fracking. It’s absolutely diabolical. The fake low interest rates make the economy look more viable than it actually is. You also get an asset bubble instead of inflation.

    Maybe they will central plan their way out of this or maybe they won’t.

    ———-

    This is what is going on. Trump doesn’t know as much as many about all the levers and Diles in government but I will never believe what she is saying hereTrump doesn’t know as much as many about all the levers and daily in government but I will never believe what she is saying here. The technocrats don’t net out. They have been doing too much for too long and nobody pays a price like in the private sector.

     

    ***https://twitter.com/ClaireBerlinski/status/1241999229691756547?s=20*** EDIT I just realized this tweet has a standards violation. It’s Clair Berlinski quoting Trump.

    —–

    One last thing about the structure of the economy. When junk debt implodes, this destroys money which creates deflation which our system of government and finance can’t handle any more. Supposedly we have double the prior record amount of debt just above junk. The Fed is already buying commercial paper. They keep floating trail balloons about buying stocks like the Japanese. Central banks are going to embarrass themselves.

    Italy has a terrible banking system and their citizens hate the EU more than any other large European country. When the European monetary union starts printing all the other central banks will have to go crazy as well.

    Supposedly all this chaos is going to jam money into American treasuries and stocks.

     

     

    • #142
  23. RufusRJones Member
    RufusRJones
    @RufusRJones

    The Federal Reserve freaked out.

    Look at the list of stuff the Fed is going to buy. A ton of that are loans that have almost no collateral. Auto loans. Credit card loans. They are going to buy municipal bonds of communities that are falling apart or didn’t plan / probably getting killed by pensions. Bond ETFs you would buy on the stock exchange. 

    Remind yourself to vote and work hard. lol

    • #143
  24. Stad Coolidge
    Stad
    @Stad

    The title of the podcast should have been “Showdown in the Octagon”.  Wow!  What a fiery exchange!

    Then when I heard Rob Long and Debra Saunders actually say something good about Trump, I had to look out the window to see if the Four Horsemen were riding by . . .

    • #144
  25. Kevin Inactive
    Kevin
    @JaredSturgeon

    Rob demonstrates that 20/20 vision is a miraculous thing.  We should have taken extraordinary measures in January?  You can go look at the curves for China but he is proposing we start taking strong measures when the Chinese had only 1000-2000 cases and we had almost no data.  Political and realistically as a future policy plan that’s crazy.  Trump actually made the smart move to close the borders to China.  But if after the last epidemic we made a “plan” for the next one we would be updating it maybe every 10 years and it would still have things like double the frequency of getting horse dung out fo streets.  Rare events should have rare responses based on guiding principles.  I think we are actually doing ok (I am an epidemiologist by training).

    Testing is terrible in the US and I think that is because the CDC wanted to be too involved.  Lifelong bureaucrats like Faulci are best are promoting their fiefdom not doing their job protecting health.  When testing becomes more common than we will be better able to target things who should stay home in addition to social distancing.

    Asian countries are more successful because of different culture.  Our vaunted independence has hurt western countries.  

    National solutions are bad policy.  The population density in the US varies from Alaska at 1.1 per/sqmile to 28,491 in NY.  Having the same epidemic response in those two places is crazy.  

     

     

    • #145
  26. Kevin Inactive
    Kevin
    @JaredSturgeon

    Many people are talking about a treatment for Wuhan flu.  The data is garbage data.  Literally could not be published except in a crisis.  This is not to say we should not implement this – garbage data is still data and more data will come out on chloroquine.   But Trump actually took exactly the right view on this – be hopeful it works and implements and see what results.  Might work/might not but lets be hopeful.

    The good news is that it is an old drug and needs no approval for anything.  Doctors can prescribe approved drugs for anything they want for any reason.  If its an old cheap drug no one cares.  The question the FDA and regulatory boards are trying to address is different.  

    • #146
  27. Architectus Coolidge
    Architectus
    @Architectus

    kedavis (View Comment):
    In a way, whether Peter was only – or mostly – really concerned about his own children, or about “the children” in general, is less important than his apparent attitude that these measures to try and deal with a deadly virus aren’t justified Because The IPOs, or whatever.

    One of his points was that the reduction in IPOs in general, and the failure of the WeWork IPO in particular, have had nothing to do with the current Wuhan Coronavirus issue, which is manifestly true.  The current economic troubles might further dampen interest in IPO activity, but I did not l hear Peter lamenting that or trying to make that case.  

    • #147
  28. RufusRJones Member
    RufusRJones
    @RufusRJones

     

     

     

    • #148
  29. LibertyDefender Member
    LibertyDefender
    @LibertyDefender

    Kevin (View Comment):

    Rob demonstrates that 20/20 vision is a miraculous thing. We should have taken extraordinary measures in January? … when the Chinese had only 1000-2000 cases and we had almost no data. Political and realistically as a future policy plan that’s crazy.

    You mean 20/20 hindsight, right?

    Kevin (View Comment):

    … the CDC wanted to be too involved. Lifelong bureaucrats like Fauci are best are promoting their fiefdom not doing their job protecting health.

    But the job of a lifelong bureaucrat like Fauci is to promote his fiefdom, not to protect health.  This is a direct analogy to the “health” commissars in China, who intentionally hid – and likely still conceal – the data on SARS-CoV-2 and the resulting disease, COVID19.

    Kevin (View Comment):

    Many people are talking about a treatment for Wuhan flu. …

    The good news is that it is an old drug and needs no approval for anything. Doctors can prescribe approved drugs for anything they want for any reason. If its an old cheap drug no one cares. The question the FDA and regulatory boards are trying to address is different.

    This is in my opinion Fauci’s biggest single offense against humanity, and it is grave.  Fauci (who sounds too much like Charlie Rangel for comfort) was a wet blanket on anything and everything positive that Trump or anyone else wanted to say about the promise of chloroquine as both a treatment and a preventive – which it has been for decades with respect to malaria.

    Fauci should have Trumpeted the FACT that after BILLIONS of doses, the safety of chloroquine is proven, and the only unknown is effectiveness preventing SARS-CoV-2 infection and treating COVID19.  Preliminary (garbage) data are consistent: it’s remarkably effective.  If it turns out it’s only moderately effective, so the heck what?  Why is a prescription required for chloroquine?

    Government sucks.  Drain the swamp.

    • #149
  30. RufusRJones Member
    RufusRJones
    @RufusRJones

    I don’t know about Fauci, but when there is less going on, public health has gotten more and more politicized. They haven’t stuck to the basics. Like the stuff they do with gun policy. 

    I would really hope that every state had good people making non-politicized decisions. I forget the guy’s name but the leading one in Minnesota was really going crazy on Trump when he started the travel ban. I think he was a professor and not a part of the government.

    • #150
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