Land of Hope and Dreams

This week on America’s Most Trusted Podcast®, we kick off with some home grown commentary about the ongoing Pelosi-Trump drama. Then, the Las Vegas Review-Journal’s White House correspondent extraordinaire Deb Saunders joins for an extended and more detailed chat on the same topic. Later, Dr. Bill McClay stops by to discuss his new book, Land of Hope: An Invitation to the Great American Story  which is all about the way history textbooks weirdly seem to only promote one point of view (guess which one). We close with a bit of talk about why Florida may be America’s greatest state and the what the hosts are doing for the three day weekend.

Music from this week’s show: Land of Hope and Dreams by Bruce Springsteen 

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There are 57 comments.

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  1. EJHill Podcaster

    When the 80s called me this morning and asked for their cultural references back, I was torn between providing Miami Vice or Miami Nice.

    • #1
    • May 24, 2019, at 11:11 AM PDT
    • 13 likes
  2. Ralphie Member

    Can’t stand him and plan on voting for him. (Trump)

     

    • #2
    • May 24, 2019, at 12:34 PM PDT
    • 3 likes
  3. Henry Castaigne Member

    I’m with James Lileks all the way. Human history is a unpleasant story of man against man and an overbearing government that started wars with other overbearing governments. Also, everyone had slaves and 90 percent of people barely had enough to eat and racism and sexism were endemic. 

    I remember speaking to a fairly successful boss who mentioned, “Well racism had to come before slavery for slavery to exist right?” I (perhaps overeagerly) explained that slavery had existed before humans knew how to right and that racism is a pretty normal attitude for all of humanity. Without that prerequisite knowledge, how can anyone accurately judge America. Dr. Bill McClay is absolutely right that so many people today don’t know anything. I think the Marxist education in our schools might be the reason that our I.Q. scores are going down. 

     

    • #3
    • May 24, 2019, at 1:23 PM PDT
    • 9 likes
  4. Brian Clendinen Member

    I agee. I am a Floridian. I had travel most of the south. I was suprised how Texas is so similar to Central Florida culture but better roads.

    • #4
    • May 24, 2019, at 2:12 PM PDT
    • 2 likes
  5. kedavis Member

    There are no Trump Democrats? That’s certainly untrue.

    • #5
    • May 24, 2019, at 4:05 PM PDT
    • 1 like
  6. JuliaBlaschke Coolidge

    I remember my son taking AP History with that deplorable book. He’d come home and want to talk to me about it as he couldn’t believe the garbage they were teaching. I remember asking him “And who were we oppressing today?”

    • #6
    • May 24, 2019, at 4:06 PM PDT
    • 3 likes
  7. Samuel Block Member

    Brian Clendinen (View Comment):

    I agee. I am a Floridian. I had travel most of the south. I was suprised how Texas is so similar to Central Florida culture but better roads.

    Yes. Florida is the best. I’ve spent most of my life in the capital and Tequesta, in north Palm Beach county. Both are booming these days. My favorite part of the state though is the northeast coast – Fernadina Beach and Crescent Beach in particular, but inland around the St. John’s river is great too.

    • #7
    • May 24, 2019, at 5:53 PM PDT
    • 2 likes
  8. The Gold Tooth Member

    That Deb Saunders is a fabulous guest. Bring her back soon and often, please.

    • #8
    • May 24, 2019, at 7:48 PM PDT
    • 5 likes
  9. Arahant Member

    Good discussion, gents.

    • #9
    • May 25, 2019, at 12:29 AM PDT
    • 1 like
  10. Joseph Stocks Member

    There is this Grand Canyon size gulf between the media and how they view the world through the prism of social media and the rest of us who follow the news seriously but not on social media.

    Rob has talked about how Twitter is not real life (Pod on the Commentary podcast had an excellent talk about the minority of representation that Twitter actually represents) yet when speaking about Trump, Rob’s first thought is his ‘embarrassing’ tweets. If Twitter is not real life then why is Rob Long’s first thought about Trump is his Twitter feed? 

    Deb Saunders also made a point about talking to a Trump supporter who doesn’t follow his tweets (and from breaking down the Twitter demographics, the vast majority of Trump supporters aren’t following his tweets) and she made a kinda snarky comment that she has to follow Trump’s tweets. 

    The point is, I don’t view Trump’s policies or even his demeanor through Twitter. I don’t believe most Trump supporters or even Americans do. It’s funny to hear these smart people like Rob and Deb trapped in this Twitterverse that many of us have given up long ago or never bought into to begin with. 

    • #10
    • May 25, 2019, at 9:10 AM PDT
    • 7 likes
  11. Arahant Member

    Joseph Stocks (View Comment):
    It’s funny to hear these smart people like Rob and Deb trapped in this Twitterverse that many of us have given up long ago or never bought into to begin with. 

    Exactly.

    • #11
    • May 25, 2019, at 9:15 AM PDT
    • 6 likes
  12. JuliaBlaschke Coolidge

    “If Twitter is not real life then why is Rob Long’s first thought about Trump is his Twitter feed?”

    Maybe because for Trump, his Twitter feed is real life. After all, haven’t we been told that Trump “tells it like it is” and other such stuff? Trump, on Twitter or anywhere else, is Trump speaking as the President.

    • #12
    • May 25, 2019, at 9:47 AM PDT
    • Like
  13. Joseph Stocks Member

    Julia,

    ”Maybe because for Trump, his Twitter feed is real life. After all, haven’t we been told that Trump “tells it like it is” and other such stuff? Trump, on Twitter or anywhere else, is Trump speaking as the President.”

    This can’t possibly be true. Trump tapped into a segment of the right that Twitter either bans or doesn’t acknowledge exists. Trump seems to know that Twitter is just a medium. I don’t get the sense that Twitter defines how Trump sees the world yet for Rob, he can’t separate Twitter and Donald Trump. I can and millions of other Americans don’t view Trump through a Twitter lens. 

    • #13
    • May 25, 2019, at 11:32 AM PDT
    • 4 likes
  14. JuliaBlaschke Coolidge

    Joseph Stocks (View Comment):

    Julia,

    ”Maybe because for Trump, his Twitter feed is real life. After all, haven’t we been told that Trump “tells it like it is” and other such stuff? Trump, on Twitter or anywhere else, is Trump speaking as the President.”

    This can’t possibly be true. Trump tapped into a segment of the right that Twitter either bans or doesn’t acknowledge exists. Trump seems to know that Twitter is just a medium. I don’t get the sense that Twitter defines how Trump sees the world yet for Rob, he can’t separate Twitter and Donald Trump. I can and millions of other Americans don’t view Trump through a Twitter lens.

    What lens? Trump always sounds like a bumptious fool. On Twitter and everywhere else. I do appreciate that the Trump administration has done some very good things, but that doesn’t mean that Trump always expresses himself in a very vulgar and often stupid manner. You can filter that out if you like. I can’t. There are a good number of voters that seem to like what he says and the way he says it. I fear there is a far larger group who can’t stand it. I just wish he would shut up for long enough for me to be able to cast a vote for him because I cannot vote for the crazy Democrats.

    • #14
    • May 25, 2019, at 2:34 PM PDT
    • 2 likes
  15. Andrew Member

    Jeez, lots of talking over the guests.

    • #15
    • May 25, 2019, at 4:11 PM PDT
    • Like
  16. kedavis Member

    James had a great suggestion for Dr. McClay’s next book. And I hope he writes it. It could be called something like “How The Rest Of The World Is So Much Worse.”

    • #16
    • May 25, 2019, at 5:13 PM PDT
    • 1 like
  17. The Cloaked Gaijin Member

    Samuel Block (View Comment):

    Yes. Florida is the best. I’ve spent most of my life in the capital and Tequesta, in north Palm Beach county. Both are booming these days. My favorite part of the state though is the northeast coast – Fernadina Beach and Crescent Beach in particular, but inland around the St. John’s river is great too.

    Uh, what so great about these specific areas?

    • #17
    • May 25, 2019, at 5:31 PM PDT
    • Like
  18. kedavis Member

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A9iY2SYe3OM

    Starting at 3:00.

    • #18
    • May 25, 2019, at 7:40 PM PDT
    • 1 like
  19. kedavis Member

    Another possible title for Dr. McClay’s next book: “So, You Think Things Are Bad HERE?”

    • #19
    • May 25, 2019, at 7:47 PM PDT
    • Like
  20. Samuel Block Member

    The Cloaked Gaijin (View Comment):

    Samuel Block (View Comment):

    Yes. Florida is the best. I’ve spent most of my life in the capital and Tequesta, in north Palm Beach county. Both are booming these days. My favorite part of the state though is the northeast coast – Fernadina Beach and Crescent Beach in particular, but inland around the St. John’s river is great too.

    Uh, what so great about these specific areas?

    I consider it a good combination of what the state has to offer. The towns themselves are historic and populated by some of the friendliest in the state. They are surrounded by gorgeous landscape. The beaches have natural sand instead of the dredged sand that you find on the southern Atlantic coast and the water is refreshing during the summer. Inland, along the rivers, there are plenty of great restaurants that pop out of the untamed Florida wild and I don’t think I’ve ever had more fun than running along those shores, swooping up blue crabs that my cousins and I baited with raw chicken.

    Now if you’re visiting from out of state and truly looking for excitement, I’d recommend you go somewhere along the southeastern coast, anywhere between Palm Beach and Key West. But if you’d be satisfied with just a taste of it, downtown Jacksonville is close to both locations and there’s plenty to do.

    I guess part of the reason I mention them is that they don’t come to mind for most, and way off the beaten path. I come from a humongous family that’s been in the state for a long time, so I don’t actually pay to stay anywhere when I travel to south Florida, but I gather it’s pretty expensive.

    • #20
    • May 25, 2019, at 7:49 PM PDT
    • Like
  21. Samuel Block Member

    St. Petersburg is excellent too. Just come to our “yucky” state and do whatever floats your boat.

    • #21
    • May 25, 2019, at 7:57 PM PDT
    • Like
  22. Michele Coolidge

     I’m sure McClay’s book is great. But the whole discussion about schools was…well, not so much inaccurate, although a lot of it was, but certainly irrelevant. Everyone involved was pretty clueless about public schools.

    Like a lot of conservatives, everyone in the conversation had a dramatically overstated and entirely unfounded belief in Howard Zinn’s popularity. While I’d wager it’s true that most US history teachers have read Zinn, it’s certainly untrue that it’s a fixture in US history curricula. In fact, most history teachers don’t use textbooks, from “occasionally as a resource” to “at all”. To the extent it’s found in US high schools, it’s mostly in APUSH classes. And the kids who are reading Zinn are the kids who are passing the APUSH, and while the test and curriculum have moved left in the past four years, it’s still a pretty reliable test of American knowledge. So reading Zinn is almost certainly correlated with (but not caused by) reading Zinn.

    @henrycastaigne sez: “Dr. Bill McClay is absolutely right that so many people today don’t know anything. I think the Marxist education in our schools might be the reason that our I.Q. scores are going down.

    Americans today know more than they have in years past. Take a look at this article by Diane Ravitch, bewailing the fact that kids don’t know history, but observing “there is little reason to believe there was a golden age when students were well-versed in American history”–written 34 years ago. https://www.nytimes.com/1985/11/17/magazine/decline-and-fall-of-teaching-history.html By that standard, high school juniors are doing pretty well. In 2012, the last year California juniors took the US history end of course test, 75% scored basic or higher. When 65% of CA juniors know that the Declaration of Independence was based on Enlightenment ideals, it’s a bit absurd to say that they aren’t learning the basic facts of American history. (Remembering them for more than a year, who knows.)

     Are most high school history teachers left of center? Yes. Are they classic middlebrow Dems, convinced that Republicans are racist and that American history is tainted by civil rights violations? Sure, a lot of them are. Are they trying to indoctrinate students? No. Indoctrinate is a strong word. Are they Marxist. No. That’s absurd. American IQs aren’t “going down” because of education. IQ is primarily innate, and to the extent that it can be developed in school, we are teaching *all* Americans (not just the narrow wedge of students who grew up to be people who post in onlines forums) more than in the past. 

    • #22
    • May 25, 2019, at 11:07 PM PDT
    • Like
  23. EJHill Podcaster

    The only book my kids ever had to read for APUSH was 1776 by David McCollough. The 14-yo is reading it now.

    • #23
    • May 26, 2019, at 8:13 AM PDT
    • Like
  24. LibertyDefender Member

    Joseph Stocks (View Comment):

    … when speaking about Trump, Rob’s first thought is his ‘embarrassing’ tweets.

    It’s funny to hear these smart people like Rob … trapped in this Twitterverse that many of us have given up long ago or never bought into to begin with.

    It’s not funny. It’s – to use @juliablaschke‘s word, tiresome. Rob even prefaced his “embarrassing” comment with an incomplete, but fair recitation of Trump achievements: great economic growth, full employment, … but Trump is “embarrassing,” really.

    Did @roblong ever describe as embarrassing the President who

    * negotiated a deal with a sworn enemy of the United States, that would permit that enemy to develop nuclear weapons;

    * concealed the name of a sworn enemy of the United States that in a coordinated attack, killed a US Ambassador and 3 other Americans;

    *’dedicated his 2d memoir to a racist, anti-Semitic, anti-American whack job who wrote that Israel and South Africa were developing a bomb designed to kill only black people;

    * weaponized the IRS and EPA against his political opponents;

    * rolled over to numerous foreign interests – and even BOWED to foreign leaders, permitting ISIS to capture enormous amounts of property and terrorist-sponsoring capital?

    But Trump is “embarrassing,” really.

    Tiresome. Delusional, really.

     

    • #24
    • May 26, 2019, at 3:39 PM PDT
    • 6 likes
  25. Taras Coolidge
    • #25
    • May 26, 2019, at 9:25 PM PDT
    • Like
  26. kedavis Member

    LibertyDefender (View Comment):

    Joseph Stocks (View Comment):

    … when speaking about Trump, Rob’s first thought is his ‘embarrassing’ tweets.

    It’s funny to hear these smart people like Rob … trapped in this Twitterverse that many of us have given up long ago or never bought into to begin with.

    It’s not funny. It’s – to use @juliablaschke‘s word, tiresome. Rob even prefaced his “embarrassing” comment with an incomplete, but fair recitation of Trump achievements: great economic growth, full employment, … but Trump is “embarrassing,” really.

    Did @roblong ever describe as embarrassing the President who

    * negotiated a deal with a sworn enemy of the United States, that would permit that enemy to develop nuclear weapons;

    * concealed the name of a sworn enemy of the United States that in a coordinated attack, killed a US Ambassador and 3 other Americans;

    *’dedicated his 2d memoir to a racist, anti-Semitic, anti-American whack job who wrote that Israel and South Africa were developing a bomb designed to kill only black people;

    * weaponized the IRS and EPA against his political opponents;

    * rolled over to numerous foreign interests – and even BOWED to foreign leaders, permitting ISIS to capture enormous amounts of property and terrorist-sponsoring capital?

    But Trump is “embarrassing,” really.

    Tiresome. Delusional, really.

     

    But when you point out the truth about Trump, nobody calls you racist.

    • #26
    • May 26, 2019, at 11:36 PM PDT
    • 2 likes
  27. Bishop Wash Member

    LibertyDefender (View Comment):

    Joseph Stocks (View Comment):

    … when speaking about Trump, Rob’s first thought is his ‘embarrassing’ tweets.

    It’s funny to hear these smart people like Rob … trapped in this Twitterverse that many of us have given up long ago or never bought into to begin with.

    It’s not funny. It’s – to use @juliablaschke‘s word, tiresome. Rob even prefaced his “embarrassing” comment with an incomplete, but fair recitation of Trump achievements: great economic growth, full employment, … but Trump is “embarrassing,” really.

    Did @roblong ever describe as embarrassing the President who

    * negotiated a deal with a sworn enemy of the United States, that would permit that enemy to develop nuclear weapons;

    * concealed the name of a sworn enemy of the United States that in a coordinated attack, killed a US Ambassador and 3 other Americans;

    *’dedicated his 2d memoir to a racist, anti-Semitic, anti-American whack job who wrote that Israel and South Africa were developing a bomb designed to kill only black people;

    * weaponized the IRS and EPA against his political opponents;

    * rolled over to numerous foreign interests – and even BOWED to foreign leaders, permitting ISIS to capture enormous amounts of property and terrorist-sponsoring capital?

    But Trump is “embarrassing,” really.

    Tiresome. Delusional, really.

     

    Supposedly Obama was classy. The person who couldn’t put two sentences together off TelePrompTer was billed as greater than Cicero. When he did read to us, he had a horrible cadence. There was also the passive aggressive flipping-you-off-while-scratching-his-nose move the SCOAMF would pull. 

    I think Rob, Jonah, and others would have been fine with Hillary. They could tut-tut from their perches, somehow unaffected by her destructive policies, and point to how she plays by the DC playbook. It some days feels as though there is one party, the DC party, that is working against the rest of the country. Trump exposes that. 

    • #27
    • May 27, 2019, at 5:17 AM PDT
    • 2 likes
  28. RufusRJones Member

    Bishop Wash (View Comment):
    Supposedly Obama was classy. The person who couldn’t put two sentences together off TelePrompTer was billed as greater than Cicero. When he did read to us, he had a horrible cadence. There was also the passive aggressive flipping-you-off-while-scratching-his-nose move the SCOAMF would pull. 

    I love this.

    • #28
    • May 27, 2019, at 6:15 AM PDT
    • Like
  29. JuliaBlaschke Coolidge

    Bishop Wash (View Comment):

    LibertyDefender (View Comment):

    Joseph Stocks (View Comment):

    … when speaking about Trump, Rob’s first thought is his ‘embarrassing’ tweets.

    It’s funny to hear these smart people like Rob … trapped in this Twitterverse that many of us have given up long ago or never bought into to begin with.

    It’s not funny. It’s – to use @juliablaschke‘s word, tiresome. Rob even prefaced his “embarrassing” comment with an incomplete, but fair recitation of Trump achievements: great economic growth, full employment, … but Trump is “embarrassing,” really.

    Did @roblong ever describe as embarrassing the President who

    * negotiated a deal with a sworn enemy of the United States, that would permit that enemy to develop nuclear weapons;

    * concealed the name of a sworn enemy of the United States that in a coordinated attack, killed a US Ambassador and 3 other Americans;

    *’dedicated his 2d memoir to a racist, anti-Semitic, anti-American whack job who wrote that Israel and South Africa were developing a bomb designed to kill only black people;

    * weaponized the IRS and EPA against his political opponents;

    * rolled over to numerous foreign interests – and even BOWED to foreign leaders, permitting ISIS to capture enormous amounts of property and terrorist-sponsoring capital?

    But Trump is “embarrassing,” really.

    Tiresome. Delusional, really.

     

    Supposedly Obama was classy. The person who couldn’t put two sentences together off TelePrompTer was billed as greater than Cicero. When he did read to us, he had a horrible cadence. There was also the passive aggressive flipping-you-off-while-scratching-his-nose move the SCOAMF would pull.

    I think Rob, Jonah, and others would have been fine with Hillary. They could tut-tut from their perches, somehow unaffected by her destructive policies, and point to how she plays by the DC playbook. It some days feels as though there is one party, the DC party, that is working against the rest of the country. Trump exposes that.

    Well you are wrong. Rob, Jonah and others would have hated Hillary. Yes Obama was a terrible President and often acted in an embarrassing manner. Even more reason to have someone up to the job next time. Trump isn’t. He is indeed embarrassing. What I think Rob, Jonah and others would have liked is a President with some knowledge and dignity who could still get good things done. But according to many Trump supporters, “only Trump” could do it. I think that is balderdash.

    • #29
    • May 27, 2019, at 8:37 AM PDT
    • Like
  30. RufusRJones Member

    Trump hasn’t screwed up too bad given his lack of knowledge of government.

    I really like how he’s dealing with the media and the Alinsky tactics.

    It will be interesting if the next candidate learns anything from it. 

    I highly recommend listening to the recent Michael Malice interviews on “The Conservasterians” and the Tom Woods Show. Trump is dealing with the left as it is. (Just to be clear Malice and Tom Woods are very hard-core libertarians, so some people are going to find parts of it pretty offensive.)

    • #30
    • May 27, 2019, at 9:01 AM PDT
    • 2 likes
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