Casserole of Mystery

Another busy week (is there any other kind?) and our intrepid podcasters cover it all: is The New York Times‘ 1619 Project the definitive (new) history of the United States? Spoiler alert: no. Hoover Institution and self-titled Grumpy Economist John Cochrane joins to discuss the possibility of a recession, and later, our own (well, by marriage) Seth Mandel (OK, he also edits The Washington Examiner Magazine) stops by to discuss the President’s uh, unusual language when discussing members of the Hebrew faith, and why Rashida Tlaib and Ilhan Omar really do employ anti-Semitic tropes on a regular basis. Finally, should we all start eating plant-based “beef”? Our podcasters debate and their opinions may surprise you.

Music from this week’s show: All That Meat And No Potatoes by Louis Armstrong

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  1. Taras Coolidge
    Taras
    @Taras

    filmklassik (View Comment):

    Taras (View Comment):

     

    @filmklassik — “But what is the 1619 thesis, anyway? That slavery was a vile, reprehensible blight on U.S. history? Stipulated. Who disputes that? That it needs to be taught — and taught thoroughly — in our schools? Stipulated.”

    This is an example of how conservatives permit liberals to mark out the playing field, and establish the rules of the game.

    Describing slavery as a “blight on U.S. history” makes as much sense as complaining that somebody put anchovies on your slice of an anchovy pizza: all the slices have anchovies on them.

    Call it a blight on world history, if you will, recognizing that in this context “blight” means “norm”.

    The true history of slavery, that should be taught in schools, is that it was everywhere, until Western Christianity literally took up arms against it.

    Teach that every slave kidnapped from his home in Africa was kidnapped by Africans.

    Teach that the Founding Fathers half-abolished slavery, but that the wave of emancipation rolling south after the Revolution stalled when it reached states where the slave population seemed too large to assimilate.

    Sorry but this makes no sense whatsoever. You’re coming at this from an intellectual, fact-based perspective which is a big mistake. So put down the laser pointer and the history book and step away from the white board for a moment.

    Let me tell you about the people in charge of educating our children in elementary and high school, and about those in charge of history and humanities departments in college and graduate school, and about the vast majority of Millennials and those in Generation Z.

    Here we go.

    Where race is concerned …

    They. Don’t. Care. About. Facts.

    (They can’t even “hear” facts.)

    They. Care. Only. About. Dogma.

    ”Woke” dogma.

    Critical Race Theory is their religion. It is their religion. So where race is concerned, they do not respond to facts at all, but only to their own feelings.

    So you have about as much chance of “reaching” these social justice religionists through appeals to logic as you do of converting an evangelical Christian to atheism.

    It can’t happen.

    I’m not saying reaching them through logic and discourse is difficult, mind you. Not for a minute do I think it’s difficult. Oh, no…

    It is impossible.

     

     My argument was that slavery should not be taught in schools as “a vile, reprehensible blight on U.S. history”, as you had stipulated, but as a feature of world history; in which context the record of the United States is better than average. 

     When progressives try to teach the former approach, I argue that conservatives should oppose them — rather than work in parallel to besmirch America and destroy patriotism.

     I often refer to progressivism as a religion.   However, that does not mean impervious to facts, just resistant to them.   Remember how some Stalinists were disillusioned by the show trials; and still more by the Hitler-Stalin pact. 

    • #61
  2. RPD Inactive
    RPD
    @RPD

    MISTER BITCOIN (View Comment):

     

    what is ‘modern slavery’?

     

    The Wiki article is worth reading just to see what BS their terms are. They include prison work, underage marriage, and underpaid illegal aliens.

    • #62
  3. Taras Coolidge
    Taras
    @Taras

    kedavis (View Comment):

    Charlotte (View Comment):

    LibertyDefender (View Comment):
    What an astonishingly useless guest Cochrane was.

    Well put. My sentiment exactly.

    I didn’t think Seth Mandel did any better.

    Now, Zefram Cochrane, THAT would be a great guest!

    Thomas Cochrane (the model for Jack Aubrey) would be pretty cool, too. 

    • #63
  4. Taras Coolidge
    Taras
    @Taras

    Henry Castaigne (View Comment):

    Taras (View Comment):

    Henry Castaigne (View Comment):

    kedavis (View Comment):

    Rob Long (View Comment):

    I have, indeed. But I’d also add: cannibalism! The idea that the North American continent was one big Burning Man camp out before Jamestown is childish left wing nonsense.

    So now you’re a Native-American-Superiority denier too? Wow!

    Some Native Americans ate each other and some Native Americans were chill. Tribes differed wildly from one another. To be fair to the Algonquin people, sometimes in the Canadian winter, it was either cannibalism or everybody dies.

    The Comanche affected to be offended by the Tonkawas’ cultural habit of munching on slain enemies: torture, murder, gang rape were OK but they drew the line at cannibalism.

    That’s what I heard too. The Comanche were among the cruelest of all Native tribes but they were so effective at war that they actually got the whites to give them some decent ranch land and the whites were too scared to break the treaty.

     In the early 19th century, the Comanche were the most effective light cavalry in the world.   In the time that an American or Texan could fire and reload, he would be feathered with a dozen arrows.   However, their military technology  stood still, while the Americans’ constantly improved, and eventually they were hopelessly outclassed.  (See Second Battle of Adobe Walls, 1874.)

     Recognizing this, their paramount chief, Quanah Parker —  his mother was a white captive — who had been at Adobe Walls, brought the tribe in.   He would ride out after any recalcitrant bands and drag them in to the reservation by the ear. 

    • #64
  5. Henry Castaigne Member
    Henry Castaigne
    @HenryCastaigne

    Taras (View Comment):

     In the early 19th century, the Comanche were the most effective light cavalry in the world. In the time that an American or Texan could fire and reload, he would be feathered with a dozen arrows. However, their military technology stood still, while the Americans’ constantly improved, and eventually they were hopelessly outclassed. (See Second Battle of Adobe Walls, 1874.)

     Recognizing this, their paramount chief, Quanah Parker — his mother was a white captive — who had been at Adobe Walls, brought the tribe in. He would ride out after any recalcitrant bands and drag them in to the reservation by the ear. 

    I heard about how impressive the Comanche were; not so much about how they would have eventually become outgunned. Still, outgunning a Texan with bow and arrows is pretty darn impressive. 

    Quanah Parker seems to be about one of the most impressive Indian Chiefs of all time. My respect for him only grows now that I know that he figured out that he had to negotiate from a position of strength and quick before he lost his advantage. 

    • #65
  6. Taras Coolidge
    Taras
    @Taras

    Henry Castaigne (View Comment):

    Taras (View Comment):

    In the early 19th century, the Comanche were the most effective light cavalry in the world. In the time that an American or Texan could fire and reload, he would be feathered with a dozen arrows. However, their military technology stood still, while the Americans’ constantly improved, and eventually they were hopelessly outclassed. (See Second Battle of Adobe Walls, 1874.)

    Recognizing this, their paramount chief, Quanah Parker — his mother was a white captive — who had been at Adobe Walls, brought the tribe in. He would ride out after any recalcitrant bands and drag them in to the reservation by the ear.

    I heard about how impressive the Comanche were; not so much about how they would have eventually become outgunned. Still, outgunning a Texan with bow and arrows is pretty darn impressive.

    Quanah Parker seems to be about one of the most impressive Indian Chiefs of all time. My respect for him only grows now that I know that he figured out that he had to negotiate from a position of strength and quick before he lost his advantage.

    He came to live the life of a civilized man in most respects, except he refused to give up his eight wives.

    Incidentally, reading about the Parker family, I suddenly recognized the inspiration for the classic John Ford Western, The Searchers.

    • #66
  7. Miffed White Male Member
    Miffed White Male
    @MiffedWhiteMale

    Here’s my answer to any discussion of slavery in America’s past:  “I don’t care anymore”.

    It’s been more than 150 years.  Nobody now alive was at any point a slave in the United States.  Nobody now alive has owned a slave in the United States.

    I very much doubt if anyone now alive had a parent who was a slave, or owned a slave.

    It’s over, it’s past, it’s not coming back.  Get over it. 

     

    • #67
  8. Henry Racette Member
    Henry Racette
    @HenryRacette

    At about 36:30, Peter asks what I would have taken to be a rhetorical question: “Which side [Republican or Democrat] is likely to be better for the economy in the long run?” Acknowledging that, as one dismal scientist once observed, “in the long run, we are all dead,” the question nonetheless seems a fair one, and one at which I’d have thought a Hoover economist might take a swing. Your guest demurred, making him one very circumspect curmudgeon indeed. I am no economist, but it’s hard to envision, in the current political climate, a Democrat hewing closer to the free-market line than our current very imperfect Republican. A failure of imagination on my part, perhaps.


    I enjoyed the discussion of fake meat. I’m ambivalent about food, just so long as I get my three or four thousand calories a day and the process is quick and convenient. I was a vegetarian for a decade in my youth, back when I was child-free and thus had the free time and disposable income to make healthful vegetarianism practical. I was never strident about it, and I outgrew the novelty. I’ve owned a farm, and the thing I miss most about it — no, the only thing I miss about it — is the fresh meat and dairy, but I will happily eat synthetic meat, when and if it approaches the taste, cost, and nutritional quality of the real thing.

    But I appreciated James’ modest defense of livestock (about 68:30), and will echo it: it just seems sensible that less killing would, most other things being equal, be a nice thing.

    Which brings me to the late great Charles Krauthammer, who wrote a few years ago:

    While retrospective judgment tends to make us feel superior to our ancestors, it should really evoke humility. Surely some contemporary practices will be deemed equally abominable by succeeding generations. The only question is: Which ones?

    I’ve long thought it will be our treatment of animals. I’m convinced that our great-grandchildren will find it difficult to believe that we actually raised, herded and slaughtered them on an industrial scale — for the eating.

    I will continue to enjoy my hamburgers, etc. But Mr. Krauthammer was, in my estimation, something of a giant; I won’t dismiss his thoughts lightly.

    • #68
  9. kedavis Coolidge
    kedavis
    @kedavis

    Henry Racette (View Comment):
    but I will happily eat synthetic meat, when and if it approaches the taste, cost, and nutritional quality of the real thing.

    That is the key point, to me.  I don’t see it happening any time soon.  Heck, even in many sci-fi shows set in the distant future they comment/complain about how synthetic meat just isn’t the same.  (That’s fiction, of course, but still…)

    • #69
  10. RufusRJones Member
    RufusRJones
    @RufusRJones

     

     

    • #70
  11. Blue Yeti Admin
    Blue Yeti
    @BlueYeti

    kedavis (View Comment):

    Henry Racette (View Comment):
    but I will happily eat synthetic meat, when and if it approaches the taste, cost, and nutritional quality of the real thing.

    That is the key point, to me. I don’t see it happening any time soon. Heck, even in many sci-fi shows set in the distant future they comment/complain about how synthetic meat just isn’t the same. (That’s fiction, of course, but still…)

    Unpopular opinion: I think Beyond Burgers are pretty good. 

    • #71
  12. MISTER BITCOIN Inactive
    MISTER BITCOIN
    @MISTERBITCOIN

    Blue Yeti (View Comment):

    kedavis (View Comment):

    Henry Racette (View Comment):
    but I will happily eat synthetic meat, when and if it approaches the taste, cost, and nutritional quality of the real thing.

    That is the key point, to me. I don’t see it happening any time soon. Heck, even in many sci-fi shows set in the distant future they comment/complain about how synthetic meat just isn’t the same. (That’s fiction, of course, but still…)

    Unpopular opinion: I think Beyond Burgers are pretty good.

    it depends where you buy it?

    it’s also beyond expensive?

     

    • #72
  13. Henry Castaigne Member
    Henry Castaigne
    @HenryCastaigne

    Miffed White Male (View Comment):

    Here’s my answer to any discussion of slavery in America’s past: “I don’t care anymore”.

    It’s been more than 150 years. Nobody now alive was at any point a slave in the United States. Nobody now alive has owned a slave in the United States.

    I very much doubt if anyone now alive had a parent who was a slave, or owned a slave.

    It’s over, it’s past, it’s not coming back. Get over it.

     

    When can we just be humans? — Shelby Steele

    • #73
  14. kedavis Coolidge
    kedavis
    @kedavis

    MISTER BITCOIN (View Comment):

    Blue Yeti (View Comment):

    kedavis (View Comment):

    Henry Racette (View Comment):
    but I will happily eat synthetic meat, when and if it approaches the taste, cost, and nutritional quality of the real thing.

    That is the key point, to me. I don’t see it happening any time soon. Heck, even in many sci-fi shows set in the distant future they comment/complain about how synthetic meat just isn’t the same. (That’s fiction, of course, but still…)

    Unpopular opinion: I think Beyond Burgers are pretty good.

    it depends where you buy it?

    it’s also beyond expensive?

     

    Might also depend what you’re used to.  I once brought vegetarian hot dogs to a picnic so a friend could try them.  He thought they were great, but he’d never eaten REAL hot dogs.  I couldn’t even choke down a single bite.

    • #74
  15. Miffed White Male Member
    Miffed White Male
    @MiffedWhiteMale

    kedavis (View Comment):

    MISTER BITCOIN (View Comment):

    Blue Yeti (View Comment):

    kedavis (View Comment):

    Henry Racette (View Comment):
    but I will happily eat synthetic meat, when and if it approaches the taste, cost, and nutritional quality of the real thing.

    That is the key point, to me. I don’t see it happening any time soon. Heck, even in many sci-fi shows set in the distant future they comment/complain about how synthetic meat just isn’t the same. (That’s fiction, of course, but still…)

    Unpopular opinion: I think Beyond Burgers are pretty good.

    it depends where you buy it?

    it’s also beyond expensive?

     

    Might also depend what you’re used to. I once brought vegetarian hot dogs to a picnic so a friend could try them. He thought they were great, but he’d never eaten REAL hot dogs. I couldn’t even choke down a single bite.

    That was a bit on Parks & Rec, when Rob Lowe’s aggressively vegetarian health nut character was making veggie burgers for everyone – a recipe he was very proud of, that he’d been “Perfecting” for years.  

    Everyone tried it, agreed it was very good, but not as good as on Swanson’s burger.  Then they got Rob Lowe to try one of those, and he wasn’t a vegetarian anymore.

     

    • #75
  16. Percival Thatcher
    Percival
    @Percival

    Ooooh! Get that guy: Duncan White. He’s written a book titled Cold Warriors: Writers Who Waged the Literary Cold War and reviewed by David Pryce-Jones here.

    • #76
  17. RufusRJones Member
    RufusRJones
    @RufusRJones

     

    • #77
  18. RufusRJones Member
    RufusRJones
    @RufusRJones

    FYI Kyle Bass is a very smart guy. There are a bunch of hedge fund guys that think Trump is doing the right thing. 

     

    • #78
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