Casserole of Mystery

Another busy week (is there any other kind?) and our intrepid podcasters cover it all: is The New York Times‘ 1619 Project the definitive (new) history of the United States? Spoiler alert: no. Hoover Institution and self-titled Grumpy Economist John Cochrane joins to discuss the possibility of a recession, and later, our own (well, by marriage) Seth Mandel (OK, he also edits The Washington Examiner Magazine) stops by to discuss the President’s uh, unusual language when discussing members of the Hebrew faith, and why Rashida Tlaib and Ilhan Omar really do employ anti-Semitic tropes on a regular basis. Finally, should we all start eating plant-based “beef”? Our podcasters debate and their opinions may surprise you.

Music from this week’s show: All That Meat And No Potatoes by Louis Armstrong

Subscribe to Ricochet Podcast in iTunes (and leave a 5-star review, please!), or by RSS feed. For all our podcasts in one place, subscribe to the Ricochet Audio Network Superfeed in iTunes or by RSS feed.

Please Support Our Sponsors!

Now become a Ricochet member for only $5.00 a month! Join and see what you’ve been missing.

There are 78 comments.

  1. Barry Jones Thatcher

    So Seth is saying that Trump puts all Jews into a big lump that is all the same and that you can’t do that, then turns around and says let me tell how American Jews really think… Wait – what?

    • #1
    • August 23, 2019, at 1:12 PM PST
    • 6 likes
  2. Goldwaterwoman Thatcher

    Love, love the Louis Armstrong song. I wish you guys (Rob and James) would let Peter talk more. 

    • #2
    • August 23, 2019, at 1:29 PM PST
    • 6 likes
  3. filmklassik Member

    Regarding the NY Times’ “1619 Project,” Rob and Peter seem ready to take it on faith that Leftists “just want to know the facts” and that genuine, intellectual engagement with them is even possible on this point.

    If only.

    Social Justice — particularly in the form of “Anti Racism” — is a de facto religion with these people. It is what brings meaning to their lives and carries its own set of dogmas, pieties, heresies, and Original Sin (being born a cisgendered white male).

    I’m not sure Peter and Rob fully understand the degree to which this new secular faith depends on its adherents viewing America as a deeply racist place. For Leftists, the dopamine hit is triggered not by finding reasons to excuse or even understand America’s legacy of racism, but by pointing the quivering finger at America and denouncing it.

    Incredibly, Rob and Peter think Leftists can be persuaded out of their faith through patience and the equivalent of a TED Talk — or several TED Talks. Insane.

    You cannot talk a zealot out of his faith — particularly when it is that faith alone that sustains him.

    • #3
    • August 23, 2019, at 7:04 PM PST
    • 4 likes
  4. Roosevelt Guck Member

    The New York Times has a political agenda so I wouldn’t get my American history from that publication. There are plenty of other ways to learn history without the biases.

    I’m skeptical about the premise, too. The people who settled in Jamestown and the people who settled in Massachusetts Bay could not have been more different culturally. So American history ought to make an accounting of both cultures, North and South. The first Jamestown settlement failed.

    Anyway, the Jamestown settlers were not Americans and it’s arbitrary to claim American history begins there. The history of the US formally begins when the Constitution is ratified. What do the settlers of 1619 have to do with anyone?

    • #4
    • August 23, 2019, at 7:12 PM PST
    • 4 likes
  5. filmklassik Member

    Rob has it right, and Seth has it wrong, about U.S. Jews and the State of Israel.

    Most American Jews are secular, their de facto religion is Progressivism, and they no longer give a damn about a sovereign Jewish State in a part of the world where, in their view, perhaps it shouldn’t have been founded in the first place.

    Most Leftists — including most Leftist Jews (especially most young Leftist Jews) — waaaaayyy deep down — are no longer convinced of the legitimacy of the “Israel Project.”

    It’s incredibly sad. And you’d think the Seths of the world would know this.

    • #5
    • August 23, 2019, at 7:18 PM PST
    • 4 likes
  6. MISTER BITCOIN Coolidge

    @roblong BDS = BS. also BDS = BOYCOTT DIVEST SANCTION

    https://unitedwithisrael.org/an-eloquent-response-by-a-scottish-professor-to-israel-boycotters/

     

     

    • #6
    • August 23, 2019, at 7:24 PM PST
    • 1 like
  7. DudleyDoright49 Coolidge

    One of my favorite things to do is listen tl experts in big cities popping out ideas for improving agriculture. Re-wilding? Too late, won’t work, that train has left the station. Bison roaming? Not with farms and fences and highways and towns and on and on. 

    So people are growing meat without an animal? how do you square that circle with these self-righteous preenings about ” no GMOs here. Keep up the good work guys, it is very entertaining.

    • #7
    • August 23, 2019, at 8:39 PM PST
    • 2 likes
  8. James Lileks Contributor

    DudleyDoright49 (View Comment):

    One of my favorite things to do is listen tl experts in big cities popping out ideas for improving agriculture. Re-wilding? Too late, won’t work, that train has left the station. Bison roaming? Not with farms and fences and highways and towns and on and on.

    I addressed that, no? I may live in a somewhat big city but I know the Plains, and own farmland.

    • #8
    • August 23, 2019, at 9:47 PM PST
    • 1 like
  9. MISTER BITCOIN Coolidge

    Roosevelt Guck (View Comment):

    The New York Times has a political agenda so I wouldn’t get my American history from that publication. There are plenty of other ways to learn history without the biases.

    I’m skeptical about the premise, too. The people who settled in Jamestown and the people who settled in Massachusetts Bay could not have been more different culturally. So American history ought to make an accounting of both cultures, North and South. The first Jamestown settlement failed.

    Anyway, the Jamestown settlers were not Americans and it’s arbitrary to claim American history begins there. The history of the US formally begins when the Constitution is ratified. What do the settlers of 1619 have to do with anyone?

     

    also, wasn’t Jamestown settlement in 1603?

     

    • #9
    • August 24, 2019, at 2:06 AM PST
    • Like
  10. FredGoodhue Coolidge

    MISTER BITCOIN (View Comment):

    Roosevelt Guck (View Comment):

    The New York Times has a political agenda so I wouldn’t get my American history from that publication. There are plenty of other ways to learn history without the biases.

    I’m skeptical about the premise, too. The people who settled in Jamestown and the people who settled in Massachusetts Bay could not have been more different culturally. So American history ought to make an accounting of both cultures, North and South. The first Jamestown settlement failed.

    Anyway, the Jamestown settlers were not Americans and it’s arbitrary to claim American history begins there. The history of the US formally begins when the Constitution is ratified. What do the settlers of 1619 have to do with anyone?

     

    also, wasn’t Jamestown settlement in 1603?

     

    Jamestown was first settled in 1607. The Times point is there was no history before 1619 when the first Africans arrived.

    • #10
    • August 24, 2019, at 3:19 AM PST
    • 2 likes
  11. FredGoodhue Coolidge

    Now I want to watch Dancing with the Stars.

    • #11
    • August 24, 2019, at 4:03 AM PST
    • 2 likes
  12. Taras Coolidge

    filmklassik (View Comment):

    Rob has it right, and Seth has it wrong, about U.S. Jews and the State of Israel.

    Most American Jews are secular, their de facto religion is Progressivism, and they no longer give a damn about a sovereign Jewish State in a part of the world where, in their view, perhaps it shouldn’t have been founded in the first place.

    Most Leftists — including most Leftist Jews (especially most young Leftist Jews) — waaaaayyy deep down — are no longer convinced of the legitimacy of the “Israel Project.”

    It’s incredibly sad. And you’d think the Seths of the world would know this.

     Progressives see Israel as apartheid South Africa with a strong lobby in Congress. They believe Israel should be boycotted, broken economically, and destroyed.

     As the older generation of Jewish donors to the Democratic Party fades away, the anti-Israel position of the party will become more and more open. It was a watershed moment when the Democrats were unable to get together on even a generic condemnation of anti-Semitism, without having to throw in racism and white supremacy and the kitchen sink. 

     I would almost feel sorry for Chuck Schumer, if he weren’t such a slime. 

    • #12
    • August 24, 2019, at 9:05 AM PST
    • 5 likes
  13. Taras Coolidge

    A while back, I posted “Before Columbus introduced sin into the New World”,

    https://ricochet.com/487255/archives/before-columbus-introduced-sin-into-the-new-world/

    Referencing a recent article in Scientific American, this concerns the widespread (and horrifyingly brutal) practice of slavery among Native Americans before the Europeans arrived

    I suspect Rob Long, knowledgeable as he is about slavery, never heard of this. 

    • #13
    • August 24, 2019, at 9:27 AM PST
    • 4 likes
  14. Percival Thatcher

    “… overly excited about this intellectual property business?”

    You’ll miss it when it’s gone. If you want to keep getting golden eggs, care for your geese.

    • #14
    • August 24, 2019, at 9:58 AM PST
    • 1 like
  15. filmklassik Member

    Taras (View Comment):

    filmklassik (View Comment):

    Rob has it right, and Seth has it wrong, about U.S. Jews and the State of Israel.

    Most American Jews are secular, their de facto religion is Progressivism, and they no longer give a damn about a sovereign Jewish State in a part of the world where, in their view, perhaps it shouldn’t have been founded in the first place.

    Most Leftists — including most Leftist Jews (especially most young Leftist Jews) — waaaaayyy deep down — are no longer convinced of the legitimacy of the “Israel Project.”

    It’s incredibly sad. And you’d think the Seths of the world would know this.

    Progressives see Israel as apartheid South Africa with a strong lobby in Congress. They believe Israel should be boycotted, broken economically, and destroyed.

    As the older generation of Jewish donors to the Democratic Party fades away, the anti-Israel position of the party will become more and more open. It was a watershed moment when the Democrats were unable to get together on even a generic condemnation of anti-Semitism, without having to throw in racism and white supremacy and the kitchen sink.

    I would almost feel sorry for Chuck Schumer, if he weren’t such a slime.

    Yeah, in THIS blogpost, a veteran Jewish TV writer named Mark Rothman (LAVERNE & SHIRLEY, THE ODD COUPLE) says out loud what I fear an increasing number of young and youngish American Jews now believe.

    Rothman’s post is almost 10 years old now, written in the wake of a scandal that arose when perennial White House correspondent/crone Helen Thomas — then aged about 112 and about to retire — said into a camera how she believed European-born Jews had no business founding a country in the Middle East and how they really ought to, y’know, “go back home.”

    I refer to Rothman’s post a lot because it is a kind of biopsy for a growing Progressive worldview — even among Jews. Rothman’s outlook is metastasizing, but the Seths of the world fail to see that.

    They just. Don’t. See it.

    Bizarre.

    Here’s the post:

    http://markrothmansblog.blogspot.com/2010/06/helen-thomas-and-her-mouth.html?m=1

     

     

    • #15
    • August 24, 2019, at 10:50 AM PST
    • Like
  16. Taras Coolidge

    @filmklassik — I enjoyed the reply:

    “you’re right, Mark. Any time one group persecutes another on the basis of religion, the persecuted group needs to — wait for it — here it comes — give up and go away! Because historically, the best way of dealing with bullies is to appease them. So any time the ones who want you dead make a demand, why, give in to them! Are they being unreasonable? So what! Give in to them! Are you the group wanting peace and are THEY the group wanting genocide? Doesn’t matter! That’s irrelevant! Give in to them!”

    But we can dream, though. Moving all the Israelis to the United States would be a great boon — best immigrants ever.*

    N.B.: It has to be the Western Hemisphere. Even the relatively few Jews in Europe already are being pushed out by a growing and increasingly hostile Muslim population. 

    *But the Democrats would never stand for it: they might vote Republican! 

    • #16
    • August 24, 2019, at 11:24 AM PST
    • 2 likes
  17. filmklassik Member

    Taras (View Comment):

    @filmklassik — I enjoyed the reply:

    “you’re right, Mark. Any time one group persecutes another on the basis of religion, the persecuted group needs to — wait for it — here it comes — give up and go away! Because historically, the best way of dealing with bullies is to appease them. So any time the ones who want you dead make a demand, why, give in to them! Are they being unreasonable? So what! Give in to them! Are you the group wanting peace and are THEY the group wanting genocide? Doesn’t matter! That’s irrelevant! Give in to them!”

    But we can dream, though. Moving all the Israelis to the United States would be a great boon — best immigrants ever.*

    N.B.: It has to be the Western Hemisphere. Even the relatively few Jews in Europe already are being pushed out by a growing and increasingly hostile Muslim population.

    *But the Democrats would never stand for it: they might vote Republican!

    Ha! Yes, the Israelis would make wonderful immigrants but the event that got them shipped here would have to be classified as a tragedy. The Jews shouldn’t have to move out of the Middle East. Ever. Ever. The Zionist Project was and remains a worthy thing and the fact that this is remotely controversial now is incredibly dismaying.

    Israel wants nothing more than to be regarded the way Belgium or Costa Rica or Luxembourg are regarded: As one of those countries that rarely gets talked about, and whose existence is never, ever questioned. Just another nation in a world of nations.

    That’s all Israel wants. But her enemies (both in the Middle East and, increasingly, in the West) won’t let that happen.

    • #17
    • August 24, 2019, at 12:13 PM PST
    • 2 likes
  18. SParker Member

    Percival (View Comment):

    “… overly excited about this intellectual property business?”

    You’ll miss it when it’s gone. If you want to keep getting golden eggs, care for your geese.

    But first make sure your geese lay golden eggs.* There’s a legitimate question whether our current patent law furthers rent-seeking more than it does progress.

    Concerns the PRC, a foreign business can treat the surrender of property as a cost of doing business and do the deal or not. This seems a lot simpler and more effective way of proceeding than having our government try to tell their government how to conduct its internal affairs. Governments are thin-skinned, time-wasting blunderers on their best days.

    *not an endorsement of goose abuse in any circumstance.

     

    • #18
    • August 24, 2019, at 12:23 PM PST
    • 3 likes
  19. Percival Thatcher

    SParker (View Comment):

    Percival (View Comment):

    “… overly excited about this intellectual property business?”

    You’ll miss it when it’s gone. If you want to keep getting golden eggs, care for your geese.

    But first make sure your geese lay golden eggs.* There’s a legitimate question whether our current patent law furthers rent-seeking more than it does progress.

    Concerns the PRC, a foreign business can treat the surrender of property as a cost of doing business and do the deal or not. This seems a lot simpler and more effective way of proceeding than having our government try to tell their government how to conduct its internal affairs. Governments are thin-skinned, time-wasting blunderers on their best days.

    *not an endorsement of goose abuse in any circumstance.

     

    We want to guard against any sensitive technology being transferred. In addition, I don’t think many of the foreign businesses have adequately considered the depth to which the PRC will attempt to penetrate them while engaged over there.

    • #19
    • August 24, 2019, at 1:00 PM PST
    • Like
  20. Muleskinner, Weasel Wrangler Member

    If China’s theft of intellectual property is not that big a deal compared to tariffs and trade wars, why doesn’t China give in, and quit stealing?

    • #20
    • August 24, 2019, at 2:01 PM PST
    • 3 likes
  21. RufusRJones Member

    Muleskinner, Weasel Wrangler (View Comment):

    If China’s theft of intellectual property is not that big a deal compared to tariffs and trade wars, why doesn’t China give in, and quit stealing?

    I just watched a video that indirectly said the same thing. China never, ever should have been let into the WTO. It’s run by a bunch of fascist-mafia thugs and the world should have acted accordingly. Trade was never going to civilize them or whatever. Now we have off shored a ton of jobs to China and the purchasing power they give us doesn’t make up for the job and wage loss here. So now populism and socialism are rampant in the West.

     

     

     

    • #21
    • August 24, 2019, at 4:02 PM PST
    • 5 likes
  22. Taras Coolidge

    filmklassik (View Comment):

    Taras (View Comment):

    @filmklassik — I enjoyed the reply:

    “you’re right, Mark. Any time one group persecutes another on the basis of religion, the persecuted group needs to — wait for it — here it comes — give up and go away! Because historically, the best way of dealing with bullies is to appease them. So any time the ones who want you dead make a demand, why, give in to them! Are they being unreasonable? So what! Give in to them! Are you the group wanting peace and are THEY the group wanting genocide? Doesn’t matter! That’s irrelevant! Give in to them!”

    But we can dream, though. Moving all the Israelis to the United States would be a great boon — best immigrants ever.*

    N.B.: It has to be the Western Hemisphere. Even the relatively few Jews in Europe already are being pushed out by a growing and increasingly hostile Muslim population.

    *But the Democrats would never stand for it: they might vote Republican!

    Ha! Yes, the Israelis would make wonderful immigrants but the event that got them shipped here would have to be classified as a tragedy. The Jews shouldn’t have to move out of the Middle East. Ever. Ever. The Zionist Project was and remains a worthy thing and the fact that this is remotely controversial now is incredibly dismaying.

    Israel wants nothing more than to be regarded the way Belgium or Costa Rica or Luxembourg are regarded: As one of those countries that rarely gets talked about, and whose existence is never, ever questioned. Just another nation in a world of nations.

    That’s all Israel wants. But her enemies (both in the Middle East and, increasingly, in the West) won’t let that happen.

    One word: Greenland.

    At the beginning of World War II, the President of Haiti wanted to admit 100,000 Jewish refugees — imagine what Haiti could have become! — but the FDR administration, in keeping with its apparent policy of facilitating the Holocaust, strong armed him.

    • #22
    • August 24, 2019, at 4:06 PM PST
    • 1 like
  23. RufusRJones Member

    Taras (View Comment):

    filmklassik (View Comment):

    Taras (View Comment):

    @filmklassik — I enjoyed the reply:

    “you’re right, Mark. Any time one group persecutes another on the basis of religion, the persecuted group needs to — wait for it — here it comes — give up and go away! Because historically, the best way of dealing with bullies is to appease them. So any time the ones who want you dead make a demand, why, give in to them! Are they being unreasonable? So what! Give in to them! Are you the group wanting peace and are THEY the group wanting genocide? Doesn’t matter! That’s irrelevant! Give in to them!”

    But we can dream, though. Moving all the Israelis to the United States would be a great boon — best immigrants ever.*

    N.B.: It has to be the Western Hemisphere. Even the relatively few Jews in Europe already are being pushed out by a growing and increasingly hostile Muslim population.

    *But the Democrats would never stand for it: they might vote Republican!

    Ha! Yes, the Israelis would make wonderful immigrants but the event that got them shipped here would have to be classified as a tragedy. The Jews shouldn’t have to move out of the Middle East. Ever. Ever. The Zionist Project was and remains a worthy thing and the fact that this is remotely controversial now is incredibly dismaying.

    Israel wants nothing more than to be regarded the way Belgium or Costa Rica or Luxembourg are regarded: As one of those countries that rarely gets talked about, and whose existence is never, ever questioned. Just another nation in a world of nations.

    That’s all Israel wants. But her enemies (both in the Middle East and, increasingly, in the West) won’t let that happen.

    One word: Greenland.

    At the beginning of World War II, the President of Haiti wanted to admit 100,000 Jewish refugees — imagine what Haiti could have become! — but the FDR administration, in keeping with its apparent policy of facilitating the Holocaust, strong armed him.

    That is depressing as hell. Terrible. 

    • #23
    • August 24, 2019, at 5:07 PM PST
    • 2 likes
  24. Samuel Block Member

    filmklassik (View Comment):

    Regarding the NY Times’ “1619 Project,” Rob and Peter seem ready to take it on faith that Leftists “just want to know the facts” and that genuine, intellectual engagement with them is even possible on this point.

    If only.

    Social Justice — particularly in the form of “Anti Racism” — is a de facto religion with these people. It is what brings meaning to their lives and carries its own set of dogmas, pieties, heresies, and Original Sin (being born a cisgendered white male).

    I’m not sure Peter and Rob fully understand the degree to which this new secular faith depends on its adherents viewing America as a deeply racist place. For Leftists, the dopamine hit is triggered not by finding reasons to excuse or even understand America’s legacy of racism, but by pointing the quivering finger at America and denouncing it.

    Incredibly, Rob and Peter think Leftists can be persuaded out of their faith through patience and the equivalent of a TED Talk — or several TED Talks. Insane.

    You cannot talk a zealot out of his faith — particularly when it is that faith alone that sustains him.

    I don’t know. I doubt that the challenge of reasoning with maniacal Leftists is lost on Californians like Robinson and Long. Both seem to put a tremendous amount of faith in Americans as whole (I’ll be generous and translate Rob’s comment about most Americans being dumb to most Americans being ignorant of their country’s complicated history). I think they are correct in assuming that conservatives better participate in this conversation in earnest if we’d like to see this dissolve.

    For instance, we’re not hearing so much about the gender wage-gap. This isn’t because the far-left has abandoned it, but because an honest discussion among the general populous has almost thoroughly discredited it.

    • #24
    • August 24, 2019, at 5:25 PM PST
    • 1 like
  25. Michele Coolidge

    I just want to protest, again, that none of @roblong, @peterrobinson, @jameslileks have any idea how schools teach American history. Yes, I realize that when you ask students or kids just out of high school, they give the wrong answer. They’ve been giving the wrong answer for 80 years, as long as we’ve had surveys of US history knowledge.

    That doesn’t change the fact that we TEACH the following:

    1. 3/5 compromise was a victory for anti-slave factions.
    2. There was a real move at the time of independence to end slavery. It might not have worked, but the founding fathers authentically expected it to end. Then came the cotton gin.
    3. Anti-slavery sentiments were very strong, and very nearly prevented the country from forming.
    4. While the House of Representatives was originally expected to favor slaveholders (and did at first), the explosion of the Market Revolution changed the balance of power. But the South was willing to leave the union, and the north wasn’t prepared to let them–which led to 30 years of trying to balance sectionalism.
    5. The growing power of abolition put increased pressure on the compromisers, leading to Civil War.
    6. Reconstruction ended because the country didn’t have the political will to continue the spending after the 1873 Depression. Many people who’d lost sons in the war said enough. Removal of Reconstruction led to Jim Crow laws in the south.
    7. Nonetheless, blacks in the Northern cities increasingly were a power base that Republican politicians had to heed, and over time, particularly after WW2, their increased political power led to the Civil Rights era.

    This is completely normal Powerpoint lectures for US History classes.

    And that’s just normal US History. When it comes to AP, they get a far more demanding curriculum that presents a balanced view of founding fathers, white and black relations, and so on.

    Most leftists complain that schools teach the vanilla version of civil rights, softcoating the truth. Meanwhile, conservatives complain that we teach the Malcolm X radicalized version.

    Neither is true. And again, don’t use random queries to recent graduates as evidence. Look at the end of course tests to see what they ask. That’s what we teach.

    • #25
    • August 24, 2019, at 5:37 PM PST
    • 2 likes
  26. filmklassik Member

    Samuel Block (View Comment):

    filmklassik (View Comment):

    Regarding the NY Times’ “1619 Project,” Rob and Peter seem ready to take it on faith that Leftists “just want to know the facts” and that genuine, intellectual engagement with them is even possible on this point.

    If only.

    Social Justice — particularly in the form of “Anti Racism” — is a de facto religion with these people. It is what brings meaning to their lives and carries its own set of dogmas, pieties, heresies, and Original Sin (being born a cisgendered white male).

    I’m not sure Peter and Rob fully understand the degree to which this new secular faith depends on its adherents viewing America as a deeply racist place. For Leftists, the dopamine hit is triggered not by finding reasons to excuse or even understand America’s legacy of racism, but by pointing the quivering finger at America and denouncing it.

    Incredibly, Rob and Peter think Leftists can be persuaded out of their faith through patience and the equivalent of a TED Talk — or several TED Talks. Insane.

    You cannot talk a zealot out of his faith — particularly when it is that faith alone that sustains him.

    I don’t know. I doubt that the challenge of reasoning with maniacal Leftists is lost on Californians like Robinson and Long. Both seem to put a tremendous amount of faith in Americans as whole (I’ll be generous and translate Rob’s comment about most Americans being dumb to most Americans being ignorant of their country’s complicated history). I think they are correct in assuming that conservatives better participate in this conversation in earnest if we’d like to see this dissolve.

    For instance, we’re not hearing so much about the gender wage-gap. This isn’t because the far-left has abandoned it, but because an honest discussion among the general populous has almost thoroughly discredited it.

    Disagree. The race thing is definitely a religion with them. Pure, undiluted theology. So resorting to facts and figures and “I hear you, but if you’ll give me just a moment to address your main points, etc” has zero effect. It means nothing to them. It’s like trying to talk a Jehovah’s Witness out of his faith.

    Anti Racism is their religion. I’ll let John McWhorter explain it further ^.

    • #26
    • August 24, 2019, at 5:40 PM PST
    • 3 likes
  27. filmklassik Member

    Taras (View Comment):

    filmklassik (View Comment):

    Taras (View Comment):

    @filmklassik — I enjoyed the reply:

    “you’re right, Mark. Any time one group persecutes another on the basis of religion, the persecuted group needs to — wait for it — here it comes — give up and go away! Because historically, the best way of dealing with bullies is to appease them. So any time the ones who want you dead make a demand, why, give in to them! Are they being unreasonable? So what! Give in to them! Are you the group wanting peace and are THEY the group wanting genocide? Doesn’t matter! That’s irrelevant! Give in to them!”

    But we can dream, though. Moving all the Israelis to the United States would be a great boon — best immigrants ever.*

    N.B.: It has to be the Western Hemisphere. Even the relatively few Jews in Europe already are being pushed out by a growing and increasingly hostile Muslim population.

    *But the Democrats would never stand for it: they might vote Republican!

    Ha! Yes, the Israelis would make wonderful immigrants but the event that got them shipped here would have to be classified as a tragedy. The Jews shouldn’t have to move out of the Middle East. Ever. Ever. The Zionist Project was and remains a worthy thing and the fact that this is remotely controversial now is incredibly dismaying.

    Israel wants nothing more than to be regarded the way Belgium or Costa Rica or Luxembourg are regarded: As one of those countries that rarely gets talked about, and whose existence is never, ever questioned. Just another nation in a world of nations.

    That’s all Israel wants. But her enemies (both in the Middle East and, increasingly, in the West) won’t let that happen.

    One word: Greenland.

    At the beginning of World War II, the President of Haiti wanted to admit 100,000 Jewish refugees — imagine what Haiti could have become! — but the FDR administration, in keeping with its apparent policy of facilitating the Holocaust, strong armed him.

    Okay, fine. But I’m not sure what this has to do with the erosion of Western support for the Jewish State.

    • #27
    • August 24, 2019, at 5:43 PM PST
    • 1 like
  28. Taras Coolidge

    filmklassik (View Comment):

    Taras (View Comment):

    filmklassik (View Comment):

    Taras (View Comment):

    @filmklassik — I enjoyed the reply:

    “you’re right, Mark. Any time one group persecutes another on the basis of religion, the persecuted group needs to — wait for it — here it comes — give up and go away! Because historically, the best way of dealing with bullies is to appease them. So any time the ones who want you dead make a demand, why, give in to them! Are they being unreasonable? So what! Give in to them! Are you the group wanting peace and are THEY the group wanting genocide? Doesn’t matter! That’s irrelevant! Give in to them!”

    But we can dream, though. Moving all the Israelis to the United States would be a great boon — best immigrants ever.*

    N.B.: It has to be the Western Hemisphere. Even the relatively few Jews in Europe already are being pushed out by a growing and increasingly hostile Muslim population.

    *But the Democrats would never stand for it: they might vote Republican!

    Ha! Yes, the Israelis would make wonderful immigrants but the event that got them shipped here would have to be classified as a tragedy. The Jews shouldn’t have to move out of the Middle East. Ever. Ever. The Zionist Project was and remains a worthy thing and the fact that this is remotely controversial now is incredibly dismaying.

    Israel wants nothing more than to be regarded the way Belgium or Costa Rica or Luxembourg are regarded: As one of those countries that rarely gets talked about, and whose existence is never, ever questioned. Just another nation in a world of nations.

    That’s all Israel wants. But her enemies (both in the Middle East and, increasingly, in the West) won’t let that happen.

    One word: Greenland.

    At the beginning of World War II, the President of Haiti wanted to admit 100,000 Jewish refugees — imagine what Haiti could have become! — but the FDR administration, in keeping with its apparent policy of facilitating the Holocaust, strong armed him.

    Okay, fine. But I’m not sure what this has to do with the erosion of Western support for the Jewish State.

    You’re the one who introduced the topic of Israelis being urged (semi-seriously?) to move to the United States.

    Also it’s interesting to note how the Democrats are for or against the Jewish people, depending on which gets them more votes. It’s similar to the way they switched from pro-communist to anti-communist back to pro-communist.

    • #28
    • August 24, 2019, at 6:05 PM PST
    • Like
  29. filmklassik Member

    Taras (View Comment):

     

    :

     

    You’re the one who introduced the topic of Israelis being urged (semi-seriously?) to move to the United States.

    Also it’s interesting to note how the Democrats are for or against the Jewish people, depending on which gets them more votes. It’s similar to the way they switched from pro-communist to anti-communist back to pro-communist.

    No, not semi-seriously — seriously. Mark Rothman — who on this point happens to speak for tens of millions of Progressives in America and Europe — is 100% sincere in his belief that the Jewish State had no business being founded in the Middle East in the first place, and that the Jews of Israel would be doing themselves and the world a great big favor if they moved.

    This sort of twisted Left wing thinking — that Israel as originally constituted was nothing but a big mistake — is becoming more and more mainstream.

    • #29
    • August 24, 2019, at 7:11 PM PST
    • Like
  30. Samuel Block Member

    filmklassik (View Comment):

    Samuel Block (View Comment):

    I don’t know. I doubt that the challenge of reasoning with maniacal Leftists is lost on Californians like Robinson and Long.

     I think they are correct in assuming that conservatives better participate in this conversation in earnest if we’d like to see this dissolve.

    Disagree. The race thing is definitely a religion with them. Pure, undiluted theology. So resorting to facts and figures and “I hear you, but if you’ll give me just a moment to address your main points, etc” has zero effect. It means nothing to them. It’s like trying to talk a Jehovah’s Witness out of his faith.

    Anti Racism is their religion. I’ll let John McWhorter explain it further ^.

    I’m not sure there’s much disagreement here. Great clip of McWhorter!

    My point is that this topic will spill out beyond the arena of political junkies and will be presented to Americans who are more ambivalent about U.S. history. The churlish dismissal typical of conservatives will not suffice to convince ordinary Americans that the 1619 thesis is absurd. It might be annoying, but in order to discredit this argument we’ll have to acknowledge it. These are winnable, though boring, games that have to be played.

    An anecdote:

    I was raised in a thoroughly Progressive household. My father was heavily involved in Al Gore’s campaign in Florida. I was inundated with Progressive bromides since before I can remember. Heck, I went to Cuba with the man and watched him engage in every imaginable mental exercise to disregard what was in front of him; I’m well aware of progressive zealotry, and if memory serves correctly, I’ve been aware of it from a very young age.

    Despite it all, I couldn’t of thought of anything more reprehensible than being a Republican. Old habits, ya know.

    Today, I’m a party member who voted for Trump. For that matter, I’m fairly proud to have stuck to my gut on the issue despite serious misgivings. But there is no way I would have done so if hadn’t been for Peter Robinson. The accomplishment wasn’t that he converted an adherent away from the cult but that he managed to make the conservative camp look like a more hospitable place than I had been led to believe. We’ve got to keep in mind that a lot of Americans are politically homeless.

    • #30
    • August 24, 2019, at 7:29 PM PST
    • 6 likes