David Frum believes there is something deeply wrong with the American system — the American political system — and he sums up the problem in the word “Trumpocracy.” His new book is “Trumpocracy: The Corruption of the American Republic.” As Frum says, the book is more about the “ocracy” than about the man. Jay talks with the author about many aspects of the current era, including how we got here and where we go. An exceptionally stimulating conversation.

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There are 31 comments.

  1. 1
  2. 2
  1. Member

    Was Mr. Frum talking on a $29.00 burner phone from Walmart? He is one of my favorite pundits but I had a lot of trouble deciphering what he was saying through the the foggy connection.

    • #1
    • January 20, 2018 at 2:04 pm
    • Like
  2. Coolidge

    I’ve long been a fan of Jay Nordlinger and David Frum. While not always agreeing with their slant on current events, their objective arguments have always informed my views. They are to be considered bedrock conservatives in my opinion.

    In the last year, however, Nordlinger and Frum have both angered me due to their consistent denunciation of the President. Moving from the objective to the subjective, they have damaged their brand. Frum’s Twitter feed, for example, has been awful.

    Being the type of guy who will listen to the opposition. I have not tuned them out. Consequently, I was looking forward to Jay’s podcast with David Frum.

    …………do better audio or give it up. It was embarrassing. I have little idea of what Frum’s responses were to Jay’s excellent questions.

    ………Sigh……..

    • #2
    • January 20, 2018 at 3:28 pm
    • Like
  3. Member

    Frum is an amazingly smart guy, but his defense of Jennifer Ruben last month was intellectually dishonest. Charles Cooke’s takedown of Rubin was spot on. There is no defense on behalf of someone whose opinion of a given issue fluctuates wildly according to how Trump feels about it. Basically if Trump is for something, Rubin is against it — regardless of how she felt about the issue yesterday.

    Which is madness. And, yes, indefensible. And this is coming from someone who not only didn’t vote for Trump and continues to hold him in contempt, but holds out hope he will eventually be resigning from office this year. Fingers crossed.

    • #3
    • January 20, 2018 at 4:31 pm
    • 1 like
  4. Thatcher

    Jay,

    Frumy is a most amazing phenomenon. I am sure that in some other universe he actually is a conservative. In this universe, he is a disgusting panderer to leftism who uses the fig leaf of being a highly intellectual conservative to cover his complete undermining of every conservative position. Well, hats off to his act as the Atlantic has rewarded him with a position of prestige and he can still play upon your old friendship to get some space on National Review and get a podcast on Ricochet. Great work if you can get it.

    Trump has been his worst nightmare as all of Frumy’s voodoo-hex pseudo-intellectual gambits have failed and Trump continues to appear more and more effective as an actual conservative. In this current desperate attempt to discredit Trump, Frumy condemns the American system of government. No fundamental problem with that because Trump is so bad. We aren’t sure exactly why Trump is so bad but we will work until we can find something vaguely plausible and then repeat it a few thousand times just like Dr. Goebbels told us to.

    As the White House Press Corps does not have a single registered Republican in its 50 members, if I were looking for a flaw in the American system I think I’d look at the press first. Hmmmm… now, what would we call it?…How about Drekocracy! Do you think if I wrote that up in 3-5,000 words the Atlantic would publish it?

    Regards,

    Jim

    • #4
    • January 20, 2018 at 6:08 pm
    • 6 likes
  5. Member

    James Gawron (View Comment):
    Jay,

    Frumy is a most amazing phenomenon. I am sure that in some other universe he actually is a conservative. In this universe, he is a disgusting panderer to leftism who uses the fig leaf of being a highly intellectual conservative to cover his complete undermining of every conservative position. Well, hats off to his act as the Atlantic has rewarded him with a position of prestige and he can still play upon your old friendship to get some space on National Review and get a podcast on Ricochet. Great work if you can get it.

    Trump has been his worst nightmare as all of Frumy’s voodoo-hex pseudo-intellectual gambits have failed and Trump continues to appear more and more effective as an actual conservative. In this current desperate attempt to discredit Trump, Frumy condemns the American system of government. No fundamental problem with that because Trump is so bad. We aren’t sure exactly why Trump is so bad but we will work until we can find something vaguely plausible and then repeat it a few thousand times just like Dr. Goebbels told us to.

    As the White House Press Corps does not have a single registered Republican in its 50 members, if I were looking for a flaw in the American system I think I’d look at the press first. Hmmmm… now, what would we call it?…How about Drekocracy! Do you think if I wrote that up in 3-5,000 words the Atlantic would publish it?

    Regards,

    Jim

    Trump is that bad. Maybe worse. He is a disgrace to his office, and, by extension, the country at large. Frum agrees. But my problem with Frum has nothing to do with his problem with Trump. Rather, it stems from his defense of an untenable position held by Jennifer Rubin, whose stance on the issues varies according to where Trump stands.

    Basically, if Trump likes something, she hates it.

    If Trump hates it, she likes it.

    And somehow, Frum was able to bring himself to defend this madness.

    • #5
    • January 20, 2018 at 6:20 pm
    • 2 likes
  6. Thatcher

    filmklassik (View Comment):
    Trump is that bad. Maybe worse. He is a disgrace to his office, and, by extension, the country at large.

    film,

    Please do repeat this sentence a few more thousand times as I am sure it will then be true. Well, maybe not true but it will feel like it is and that’s what really matters. What did Michael Wolff say “rings true”. Ring a ding ding.

    And somehow, Frum was able to bring himself to defend this madness.

    For Frumy such logical contortions are all in a day’s work. You don’t get to be editor of the Atlantic without a serious ability to rationalize almost anything that promotes the narrative.

    Regards,

    Jim

    • #6
    • January 20, 2018 at 6:36 pm
    • 4 likes
  7. Coolidge

    James Gawron (View Comment):
    James Gawron

    filmklassik (View Comment):
    Trump is that bad. Maybe worse. He is a disgrace to his office, and, by extension, the country at large.

    I’ll repeat it because it is true. Everything Frum said about Trump is true regardless of the accomplishments of Trump’s administration. Thankfully that Administration pretty much ignores Trump as much as they can and behaves like a normal Republican Administration.

    • #7
    • January 21, 2018 at 8:15 am
    • 3 likes
  8. Thatcher

    JuliaBlaschke (View Comment):
    I’ll repeat it because it is true. Everything Frum said about Trump is true regardless of the accomplishments of Trump’s administration. Thankfully that Administration pretty much ignores Trump as much as they can and behaves like a normal Republican Administration.

    Julia,

    Well, this is quite a logical contortion all by itself. Amazing, “ignore the President of the United States” and proceed with “a normal Republican Administration”. That surely explains it. Trump is obviously responsible for everything bad and certainly has no right to claim the credit for anything good. Who does he think he is? [Responding to this rhetorical question with “he thinks he’s the President of the United States” will not be rewarded with any points and could risk you losing your trophy for attendance.]

    That darn Trump.

    Regards,

    Jim

    • #8
    • January 21, 2018 at 8:57 am
    • 2 likes
  9. Coolidge

    James Gawron (View Comment):

    JuliaBlaschke (View Comment):
    I’ll repeat it because it is true. Everything Frum said about Trump is true regardless of the accomplishments of Trump’s administration. Thankfully that Administration pretty much ignores Trump as much as they can and behaves like a normal Republican Administration.

    Julia,

    Well, this is quite a logical contortion all by itself. Amazing, “ignore the President of the United States” and proceed with “a normal Republican Administration”. That surely explains it. Trump is obviously responsible for everything bad and certainly has no right to claim the credit for anything good. Who does he think he is? [Responding to this rhetorical question with “he thinks he’s the President of the United States” will not be rewarded with any points and could risk you losing your trophy for attendance.]

    That darn Trump.

    Regards,

    Jim

    Yes he is President but he is a completely clueless President. Hence antics like “shitholes” and countless others. He only deserves credit for appointing some good people and letting them do their thing. So I will give him credit for that. Now he should try not to get in their way and if he must carry on with his nonsense (and he must), at least try to behave in a way that doesn’t hinder the intelligent people.

    • #9
    • January 21, 2018 at 10:00 am
    • 2 likes
  10. Thatcher

    JuliaBlaschke (View Comment):
    He only deserves credit for appointing some good people and letting them do their thing.

    As opposed to Obama who hired highly intelligent ridiculous ideologues (Powers, Rhodes, Rice, Lynch, Emanuel,..etc.) who screwed everything up they touched (Obamacare, 1.5% growth, and the Iran Deal). Would anyone like to bet money that Donald Trump’s grades from college were higher than Obama’s?

    Why don’t you ask Shelby Steele about this. I’m sure he has a few choice words about Obama’s phony “smartest guy in the room” act.

    Regards,

    Jim

    • #10
    • January 21, 2018 at 10:52 am
    • Like
  11. Reagan

    James Gawron (View Comment):
    Jay,

    Frumy is a most amazing phenomenon. I am sure that in some other universe he actually is a conservative. In this universe, he is a disgusting panderer to leftism who uses the fig leaf of being a highly intellectual conservative to cover his complete undermining of every conservative position. Well, hats off to his act as the Atlantic has rewarded him with a position of prestige and he can still play upon your old friendship to get some space on National Review and get a podcast on Ricochet. Great work if you can get it.

    Trump has been his worst nightmare as all of Frumy’s voodoo-hex pseudo-intellectual gambits have failed and Trump continues to appear more and more effective as an actual conservative. In this current desperate attempt to discredit Trump, Frumy condemns the American system of government. No fundamental problem with that because Trump is so bad. We aren’t sure exactly why Trump is so bad but we will work until we can find something vaguely plausible and then repeat it a few thousand times just like Dr. Goebbels told us to.

    As the White House Press Corps does not have a single registered Republican in its 50 members, if I were looking for a flaw in the American system I think I’d look at the press first. Hmmmm… now, what would we call it?…How about Drekocracy! Do you think if I wrote that up in 3-5,000 words the Atlantic would publish it?

    Regards,

    Jim

    NR and WS do not have a White House Press Core member? The Blaze? Breitbart?

    • #11
    • January 21, 2018 at 5:40 pm
    • Like
  12. Reagan

    JuliaBlaschke (View Comment):

    James Gawron (View Comment):
    James Gawron

    filmklassik (View Comment):
    Trump is that bad. Maybe worse. He is a disgrace to his office, and, by extension, the country at large.

    I’ll repeat it because it is true. Everything Frum said about Trump is true regardless of the accomplishments of Trump’s administration. Thankfully that Administration pretty much ignores Trump as much as they can and behaves like a normal Republican Administration.

    That may be the solution! The Administration ignores Trump and promotes basic Republican positions on taxes, regulations, Judges, and fighting ISIS.

    • #12
    • January 21, 2018 at 5:45 pm
    • Like
  13. Reagan

    Aside from crappy audio, it was a great interview. I just got my copy of Trumpocracy. I am looking forward to reading it.

    • #13
    • January 21, 2018 at 6:07 pm
    • Like
  14. Member

    Gary Robbins

    NR and WS do not have a White House Press Core member? The Blaze? Breitbart?

    I thought Betsy DeVos (all on her own, of course, because Trump is not responsible for any good coming out of his administration) did away with Common Core. Who knew?

    • #14
    • January 21, 2018 at 8:47 pm
    • Like
  15. Reagan

    jeannebodine (View Comment):

    Gary Robbins

    NR and WS do not have a White House Press Core member? The Blaze? Breitbart?

    I thought Betsy DeVos (all on her own, of course, because Trump is not responsible for any good coming out of his administration) did away with Common Core. Who knew?

    Doggone spell check! ?

    • #15
    • January 21, 2018 at 8:58 pm
    • Like
  16. Thatcher

    Gary Robbins (View Comment):

    James Gawron (View Comment):
    Jay,

    Frumy is a most amazing phenomenon. I am sure that in some other universe he actually is a conservative. In this universe, he is a disgusting panderer to leftism who uses the fig leaf of being a highly intellectual conservative to cover his complete undermining of every conservative position. Well, hats off to his act as the Atlantic has rewarded him with a position of prestige and he can still play upon your old friendship to get some space on National Review and get a podcast on Ricochet. Great work if you can get it.

    Trump has been his worst nightmare as all of Frumy’s voodoo-hex pseudo-intellectual gambits have failed and Trump continues to appear more and more effective as an actual conservative. In this current desperate attempt to discredit Trump, Frumy condemns the American system of government. No fundamental problem with that because Trump is so bad. We aren’t sure exactly why Trump is so bad but we will work until we can find something vaguely plausible and then repeat it a few thousand times just like Dr. Goebbels told us to.

    As the White House Press Corps does not have a single registered Republican in its 50 members, if I were looking for a flaw in the American system I think I’d look at the press first. Hmmmm… now, what would we call it?…How about Drekocracy! Do you think if I wrote that up in 3-5,000 words the Atlantic would publish it?

    Regards,

    Jim

    NR and WS do not have a White House Press Core member? The Blaze? Breitbart?

    Gary,

    I was hoping even though they can’t actually appoint a member that they might, you know, criticize the press corps for their bias. Why even you might be able to deduce that with zero Republican members the bias of the White House Press Corps would be self-evident. Even you could criticize this. I know your schedule is full up with criticizing Trump. In fact, your entire existence seems to be criticizing Trump.

    Perhaps, just for a change of pace, you could criticize the White House Press Corps. How could it hurt?

    Regards,

    Jim

    • #16
    • January 21, 2018 at 9:01 pm
    • Like
  17. Member

    JuliaBlaschke (View Comment):

    James Gawron (View Comment):
    James Gawron

    filmklassik (View Comment):
    Trump is that bad. Maybe worse. He is a disgrace to his office, and, by extension, the country at large.

    I’ll repeat it because it is true. Everything Frum said about Trump is true regardless of the accomplishments of Trump’s administration. Thankfully that Administration pretty much ignores Trump as much as they can and behaves like a normal Republican Administration.

    “Everything Frum said about Trump is true…”???

    David Frum – “No one ever thought to say there’s a rule you can’t work with a hostile foreign intelligence agency…but, um, he did.”

    Prove it to me, Mr. Frum (and by extension JuliaBlaschke), because nobody has even come close to doing so as of this date. Until then, I will reserve the right to characterize David Frum as a whinging moron who is no longer taken seriously by his former compatriots. The Atlantic is a good place for him.

    • #17
    • January 22, 2018 at 7:05 am
    • Like
  18. Member

    The NT rages on:

    • #18
    • January 22, 2018 at 7:43 am
    • Like
  19. Member

    This was kind of frustrating. I have been a David Frum fan for at least 20 years, and a Jay Nordlinger fan (I actually like GWB) for about as long. I believe (like Frum and Henry Olsen) that the “minimal government run by green eyeshade bookkeepers no matter what the situation” philosophy of Ted Cruz and the so-called “Freedom Caucus” is problematic.

    I didn’t vote for Trump, I think he is an unprincipled 4-year-old Narcissist; what he has done especially well is stay out of the way while Pence, McConnell, and Ryan, et al, have done some heavy lifting. I go more with Henry Olsen’s view of Reagan populism, Ponnoru’s Reformicon agenda, and the work of Arthur Brooks, combined with a William Kristol view of America’s role in the world.

    But the podcast was instead inclined to throw absolutely everything out, both by basic assertion (Frum’s bald assumption that Trump colluded with Russia to steal the 2016 election), and by selecting and accepting only the facts that support the neverneverTrump narrative. This is just as wrong as the Trumpkins’ embrace of only storylines that support or exonerate Trump.

    Frum would praise Jack Kemp on one hand, then trash his protege Paul Ryan, whose views and agendae differ from Kemp’s only in areas that Frum would approve (e.g., Kemp was a gold standard supporter, Ryan and Frum are not; etc.). He says that Ryan drove the 2012 Republican platform in ways that Mitt Romney disapproved. Huh? Ryan bulldozed the platform against Romney’s wishes, so he was rewarded by Romney with the VP nomination? In fact, Ryan and Romney see things about the same way, which is why Romney wanted Ryan.

    I honestly think that all sides have gone to silly extremes- the “Resist!” crowd, the conservative neverneverTrump people, and the unthinking Trump acolytes who think that the budget would balance if we ended foreign aid. I am honestly tired of everything anyone says being all about Trump, all the time. And our conservative wing has become as pompous and tiresome in its apoproach as the “Resist!” crowd, and the “Trump is a hero!” people are still as wrong as ever.

    • #19
    • January 22, 2018 at 11:04 am
    • 2 likes
  20. Member

    Duane Oyen (View Comment):
    This was kind of frustrating. I have been a David Frum fan for at least 20 years, and a Jay Nordlinger fan (I actually like GWB) for about as long. I believe (like Frum and Henry Olsen) that the “minimal government run by green eyeshade bookkeepers no matter what the situation” philosophy of Ted Cruz and the so-called “Freedom Caucus” is problematic.

    I didn’t vote for Trump, I think he is an unprincipled 4-year-old Narcissist; what he has done especially well is stay out of the way while Pence, McConnell, and Ryan, et al, have done some heavy lifting. I go more with Henry Olsen’s view of Reagan populism, Ponnoru’s Reformicon agenda, and the work of Arthur Brooks, combined with a William Kristol view of America’s role in the world.

    But the podcast was instead inclined to throw absolutely everything out, both by basic assertion (Frum’s bald assumption that Trump colluded with Russia to steal the 2016 election), and by selecting and accepting only the facts that support the neverneverTrump narrative. This is just as wrong as the Trumpkins’ embrace of only storylines that support or exonerate Trump.

    Frum would praise Jack Kemp on one hand, then trash his protege Paul Ryan, whose views and agendae differ from Kemp’s only in areas that Frum would approve (e.g., Kemp was a gold standard supporter, Ryan and Frum are not; etc.). He says that Ryan drove the 2012 Republican platform in ways that Mitt Romney disapproved. Huh? Ryan bulldozed the platform against Romney’s wishes, so he was rewarded by Romney with the VP nomination? In fact, Ryan and Romney see things about the same way, which is why Romney wanted Ryan.

    I honestly think that all sides have gone to silly extremes- the “Resist!” crowd, the conservative neverneverTrump people, and the unthinking Trump acolytes who think that the budget would balance if we ended foreign aid. I am honestly tired of everything anyone says being all about Trump, all the time. And our conservative wing has become as pompous and tiresome in its apoproach as the “Resist!” crowd, and the “Trump is a hero!” people are still as wrong as ever.

    I did not want Trump as the (R) nominee, but even more adamantly I did not want HRC to be President.

    Evidently enough voters concurred and to everyone’s astonishment Donald Trump was elected President.

    Why piss and moan about what an idiot Trump is rather than get whatever conservative policies enacted into law as soon as possible.(ie: before the midterms)

    NT’s seem a little too pleased with themselves in denouncing Donald Trump and seem blissfully unconcerned in enacting whatever conservative agenda is possible in this rare 24 month window of opportunity.

    Nobody cares that you hate Trump, his flaws are obvious to everyone. The difference is that some conservatives will fight for a win when the opportunity presents itself, while others would rather lose than allow a trashy neuvo riche developer into Bushwood.

    • #20
    • January 22, 2018 at 11:31 am
    • Like
  21. Member

    EDISONPARKS (View Comment):

    Duane Oyen (View Comment):
    This was kind of frustrating. I have been a David Frum fan for at least 20 years, and a Jay Nordlinger fan (I actually like GWB) for about as long. I believe (like Frum and Henry Olsen) that the “minimal government run by green eyeshade bookkeepers no matter what the situation” philosophy of Ted Cruz and the so-called “Freedom Caucus” is problematic.

    I didn’t vote for Trump, I think he is an unprincipled 4-year-old Narcissist; what he has done especially well is stay out of the way while Pence, McConnell, and Ryan, et al, have done some heavy lifting. I go more with Henry Olsen’s view of Reagan populism, Ponnoru’s Reformicon agenda, and the work of Arthur Brooks, combined with a William Kristol view of America’s role in the world.

    But the podcast was instead inclined to throw absolutely everything out, both by basic assertion (Frum’s bald assumption that Trump colluded with Russia to steal the 2016 election), and by selecting and accepting only the facts that support the neverneverTrump narrative. This is just as wrong as the Trumpkins’ embrace of only storylines that support or exonerate Trump.

    ……………

    I did not want Trump as the (R) nominee, but even more adamantly I did not want HRC to be President.

    Evidently enough voters concurred and to everyone’s astonishment Donald Trump was elected President.

    Why piss and moan about what an idiot Trump is rather than get whatever conservative policies enacted into law as soon as possible.(ie: before the midterms)

    NT’s seem a little too pleased with themselves in denouncing Donald Trump and seem blissfully unconcerned in enacting whatever conservative agenda is possible in this rare 24 month window of opportunity.

    Nobody cares that you hate Trump, his flaws are obvious to everyone. The difference is that some conservatives will fight for a win when the opportunity presents itself, while others would rather lose than allow a trashy neuvo riche developer into Bushwood.

    Amazing- I write a post that criticizes the NT crowd and criticizes the tone of the podcast, and you “respond” as though it is a NT post, and then refer to “Bushwood”, whatever that is. GWB was a conservative president; he screwed up by letting Paulson make his buddies 100% whole at the expense of everyone not on Wall Street, but he made most decisions- except for trusting SCOTUS to strike down McCain-Feingold, the Agriculture Bill and the 1986 Energy Bill- on a sound basis.

    I think it is great that some sensible conservative things are being accomplished by good Administration people. The credit does not go to Trump except insofar as he has permitted them to labor while he watches cable TV. During the election there was no assurance whatever that this would be the case- based on Trump’s history, it was as likely that we would get a form of Hillary.

    • #21
    • January 22, 2018 at 12:31 pm
    • 2 likes
  22. Member

    Duane Oyen (View Comment):

    EDISONPARKS (View Comment):

    Duane Oyen (View Comment):
    This was kind of frustrating. I have been a David Frum fan for at least 20 years, and a Jay Nordlinger fan (I actually like GWB) for about as long. I believe (like Frum and Henry Olsen) that the “minimal government run by green eyeshade bookkeepers no matter what the situation” philosophy of Ted Cruz and the so-called “Freedom Caucus” is problematic.

    I didn’t vote for Trump, I think he is an unprincipled 4-year-old Narcissist; what he has done especially well is stay out of the way while Pence, McConnell, and Ryan, et al, have done some heavy lifting. I go more with Henry Olsen’s view of Reagan populism, Ponnoru’s Reformicon agenda, and the work of Arthur Brooks, combined with a William Kristol view of America’s role in the world.

    But the podcast was instead inclined to throw absolutely everything out, both by basic assertion (Frum’s bald assumption that Trump colluded with Russia to steal the 2016 election), and by selecting and accepting only the facts that support the neverneverTrump narrative. This is just as wrong as the Trumpkins’ embrace of only storylines that support or exonerate Trump.

    ……………

    I did not want Trump as the (R) nominee, but even more adamantly I did not want HRC to be President.

    Evidently enough voters concurred and to everyone’s astonishment Donald Trump was elected President.

    Why piss and moan about what an idiot Trump is rather than get whatever conservative policies enacted into law as soon as possible.(ie: before the midterms)

    NT’s seem a little too pleased with themselves in denouncing Donald Trump and seem blissfully unconcerned in enacting whatever conservative agenda is possible in this rare 24 month window of opportunity.

    Nobody cares that you hate Trump, his flaws are obvious to everyone. The difference is that some conservatives will fight for a win when the opportunity presents itself, while others would rather lose than allow a trashy neuvo riche developer into Bushwood.

    Amazing- I write a post that criticizes the NT crowd and criticizes the tone of the podcast, and you “respond” as though it is a NT post, and then refer to “Bushwood”, whatever that is. GWB was a conservative president; he screwed up by letting Paulson make his buddies 100% whole at the expense of everyone not on Wall Street, but he made most decisions- except for trusting SCOTUS to strike down McCain-Feingold, the Agriculture Bill and the 1986 Energy Bill- on a sound basis.

    I think it is great that some sensible conservative things are being accomplished by good Administration people. The credit does not go to Trump except insofar as he has permitted them to labor while he watches cable TV. During the election there was no assurance whatever that this would be the case- based on Trump’s history, it was as likely that we would get a form of Hillary.

    Sorry I attached to you comment to do my rah rah lets win one for the Gipper rant(ie: Support Trump even though he’s a dope …or say nothing at all). I was replying to the podcast and general tone of the comments. Granted you do criticize the NT, but you do so by making sure you criticize everyone(ie: Trumkins too), which is fine, because I happen to agree, but I don’t find it productive to mention that.

    If “sensible conservatives things happen” of course the credit goes to Trump, who else can sign laws and regulate or deregulate other than the Executive. Furthermore, who hired the “Administration people”…. President Donald Trump.

    While I will concede that because Obama kept a damper on economic growth for 8 years any (R) President would have seen the same result we are experiencing now with the economy, because Trump happens to be the (R) President he gets the credit.(ie: 3% Economic Growth, 4% Unemployment, Record Bull Stock Market, etc.)

    BTW: Bushwood is a metaphor for the NT notion of what the Republican Party is supposed to be.

    • #22
    • January 22, 2018 at 1:29 pm
    • Like
  23. Member

    Just once I’d love to hear the “I didn’t want Trump I wanted Cruz but you fight with the army you have” camp acknowledge that Donald Trump — while appointing good judges and making the right call on Jerusalem and the tax plan — has been a PR disaster for the Conservative brand, and is the big reason why a new generation of young people either call themselves Progressive, or fancy themselves “independent” but think and invariably vote Progressive.

    • #23
    • January 22, 2018 at 2:21 pm
    • 2 likes
  24. Thatcher

    filmklassik (View Comment):
    Just once I’d love to hear the “I didn’t want Trump I wanted Cruz but you fight with the army you have” camp acknowledge that Donald Trump — while appointing good judges and making the right call on Jerusalem and the tax plan — has been a PR disaster for the Conservative brand, and is the big reason why a new generation of young people either call themselves Progressive, or fancy themselves “independent” but think and invariably vote Progressive.

    film,

    The problem is that your premise doesn’t seem to be quite true. Trump has high negatives along with his positives in a pure PR evaluation, that is true. However, Trump just defeated the Dems in a budget showdown something General McClellan of the congressional leadership failed to do even once in the previous eight years.

    As Lincoln said of General Grant when asked about Grant’s drinking and incessant cigar smoking, “I can not do without him, he fights!”.

    Regards,

    Jim

    • #24
    • January 22, 2018 at 6:40 pm
    • Like
  25. Coolidge

    CPTdave504 (View Comment):
    Prove it to me, Mr. Frum (and by extension JuliaBlaschke), because nobody has even come close to doing so as of this date. Until then, I will reserve the right to characterize David Frum as a whinging moron who is no longer taken seriously by his former compatriots. The Atlantic is a good place for him.

    Okay well I don’t think Trump actually worked with a hostile foreign government. More like he was incredibly stupid and had Don Jr. meet with them. Then, thankfully Trump surrounded himself (after a few bad hires) with some thinking adults and was persuaded that his childish feelings about Russia just wouldn’t fly.

    James Gawron (View Comment):
    As opposed to Obama who hired highly intelligent ridiculous ideologues (Powers, Rhodes, Rice, Lynch, Emanuel,..etc.) who screwed everything up they touched (Obamacare, 1.5% growth, and the Iran Deal). Would anyone like to bet money that Donald Trump’s grades from college were higher than Obama’s?

    Obama stinks too. Doesn’t make Trump any better.

    • #25
    • January 22, 2018 at 7:50 pm
    • Like
  26. Member

    EDISONPARKS (View Comment):

    Duane Oyen (View Comment):

    EDISONPARKS (View Comment):

    Duane Oyen (View Comment):

    I think it is great that some sensible conservative things are being accomplished by good Administration people. The credit does not go to Trump except insofar as he has permitted them to labor while he watches cable TV. During the election there was no assurance whatever that this would be the case- based on Trump’s history, it was as likely that we would get a form of Hillary.

    Sorry I attached to you comment to do my rah rah lets win one for the Gipper rant(ie: Support Trump even though he’s a dope …or say nothing at all). I was replying to the podcast and general tone of the comments. Granted you do criticize the NT, but you do so by making sure you criticize everyone(ie: Trumkins too), which is fine, because I happen to agree, but I don’t find it productive to mention that.

    If “sensible conservatives things happen” of course the credit goes to Trump, who else can sign laws and regulate or deregulate other than the Executive. Furthermore, who hired the “Administration people”…. President Donald Trump.

    While I will concede that because Obama kept a damper on economic growth for 8 years any (R) President would have seen the same result we are experiencing now with the economy, because Trump happens to be the (R) President he gets the credit.(ie: 3% Economic Growth, 4% Unemployment, Record Bull Stock Market, etc.)

    BTW: Bushwood is a metaphor for the NT notion of what the Republican Party is supposed to be.

    Well, call me whatever you wish, I guess. I like GWB, I am not a big fan of GHWB. And I still don’t know what the “wood” part comes from. I criticize all sides because that is the point- the NT group that is so NT that they can’t even be glad to escape Hillary in a way we had no reason to expect is extreme; correct about the president’s fatal flaws that make him his own worst enemy; and the everTrumpers who actually believed that nonsense about Flight 93.

    Every single one deserves criticism, and I will not stop.

    I’ll say one thing in opposition to the prissy types who get all wrapped up over comments like “Rocketman” and about “the button”- we have used diplomatspeak for years, to our detriment. I don’t see anything wrong with some good-cop, bad cop where the DoS tries to mollify people while the president acts crazy and plants some doubt. Kim would benefit from some uncertainty about whether he will be bombed back to the stone age. And the RoK is not so dumb that they are incapable of understanding the game.

    • #26
    • January 22, 2018 at 7:54 pm
    • 1 like
  27. Coolidge

    EDISONPARKS (View Comment):
    Why piss and moan about what an idiot Trump is rather than get whatever conservative policies enacted into law as soon as possible.(ie: before the midterms)

    I piss and moan in the futile hope that Trump might actually shut up for a little while so that we can get conservative policies enacted into law before the midterms. Many have said that if Trump would just be quiet, his approval rating might actually improve and Republicans would have a chance of keeping their seats if they didn’t have to try and work around his antics! You know, the way Mitch McConnell did over the weekend with the shut down when Trump was actually almost silent for 2 whole days.

    • #27
    • January 22, 2018 at 7:58 pm
    • 2 likes
  28. Member

    Duane Oyen (View Comment):

    EDISONPARKS (View Comment):

    Duane Oyen (View Comment):

    EDISONPARKS (View Comment):

    Duane Oyen (View Comment):

    I think it is great that some sensible conservative things are being accomplished by good Administration people. The credit does not go to Trump except insofar as he has permitted them to labor while he watches cable TV. During the election there was no assurance whatever that this would be the case- based on Trump’s history, it was as likely that we would get a form of Hillary.

    Sorry I attached to you comment to do my rah rah lets win one for the Gipper rant(ie: Support Trump even though he’s a dope …or say nothing at all). I was replying to the podcast and general tone of the comments. Granted you do criticize the NT, but you do so by making sure you criticize everyone(ie: Trumkins too), which is fine, because I happen to agree, but I don’t find it productive to mention that.

    If “sensible conservatives things happen” of course the credit goes to Trump, who else can sign laws and regulate or deregulate other than the Executive. Furthermore, who hired the “Administration people”…. President Donald Trump.

    While I will concede that because Obama kept a damper on economic growth for 8 years any (R) President would have seen the same result we are experiencing now with the economy, because Trump happens to be the (R) President he gets the credit.(ie: 3% Economic Growth, 4% Unemployment, Record Bull Stock Market, etc.)

    BTW: Bushwood is a metaphor for the NT notion of what the Republican Party is supposed to be.

    Well, call me whatever you wish, I guess. I like GWB, I am not a big fan of GHWB. And I still don’t know what the “wood” part comes from. I criticize all sides because that is the point- the NT group that is so NT that they can’t even be glad to escape Hillary in a way we had no reason to expect is extreme; correct about the president’s fatal flaws that make him his own worst enemy; and the everTrumpers who actually believed that nonsense about Flight 93.

    Every single one deserves criticism, and I will not stop.

    I’ll say one thing in opposition to the prissy types who get all wrapped up over comments like “Rocketman” and about “the button”- we have used diplomatspeak for years, to our detriment. I don’t see anything wrong with some good-cop, bad cop where the DoS tries to mollify people while the president acts crazy and plants some doubt. Kim would benefit from some uncertainty about whether he will be bombed back to the stone age. And the RoK is not so dumb that they are incapable of understanding the game.

    Duane Oyen (View Comment):

    EDISONPARKS (View Comment):

    Duane Oyen (View Comment):

    EDISONPARKS (View Comment):

    Duane Oyen (View Comment):

    I think it is great that some sensible conservative things are being accomplished by good Administration people. The credit does not go to Trump except insofar as he has permitted them to labor while he watches cable TV. During the election there was no assurance whatever that this would be the case- based on Trump’s history, it was as likely that we would get a form of Hillary.

    Sorry I attached to you comment to do my rah rah lets win one for the Gipper rant(ie: Support Trump even though he’s a dope …or say nothing at all). I was replying to the podcast and general tone of the comments. Granted you do criticize the NT, but you do so by making sure you criticize everyone(ie: Trumkins too), which is fine, because I happen to agree, but I don’t find it productive to mention that.

    If “sensible conservatives things happen” of course the credit goes to Trump, who else can sign laws and regulate or deregulate other than the Executive. Furthermore, who hired the “Administration people”…. President Donald Trump.

    While I will concede that because Obama kept a damper on economic growth for 8 years any (R) President would have seen the same result we are experiencing now with the economy, because Trump happens to be the (R) President he gets the credit.(ie: 3% Economic Growth, 4% Unemployment, Record Bull Stock Market, etc.)

    BTW: Bushwood is a metaphor for the NT notion of what the Republican Party is supposed to be.

    Well, call me whatever you wish, I guess. I like GWB, I am not a big fan of GHWB. And I still don’t know what the “wood” part comes from. I criticize all sides because that is the point- the NT group that is so NT that they can’t even be glad to escape Hillary in a way we had no reason to expect is extreme; correct about the president’s fatal flaws that make him his own worst enemy; and the everTrumpers who actually believed that nonsense about Flight 93.

    Every single one deserves criticism, and I will not stop.

    I’ll say one thing in opposition to the prissy types who get all wrapped up over comments like “Rocketman” and about “the button”- we have used diplomatspeak for years, to our detriment. I don’t see anything wrong with some good-cop, bad cop where the DoS tries to mollify people while the president acts crazy and plants some doubt. Kim would benefit from some uncertainty about whether he will be bombed back to the stone age. And the RoK is not so dumb that they are incapable of understanding the game.

    The movie Caddyshack came out in 1980, Bushwood Country Club has nothing to do with the George Bush family. I’m using the Judge Smails and Bushwood Country Club to make fun of the NT’s(ie: stuffy Country Club Republicans) not wanting gauche developer(Rodney Dangerfield = Donald Trump) in their highfalutin Club(ie: The Republican Party) …… but when you have to explain it ….

    • #28
    • January 22, 2018 at 8:11 pm
    • Like
  29. Member

    James Gawron (View Comment):

    filmklassik (View Comment):
    Just once I’d love to hear the “I didn’t want Trump I wanted Cruz but you fight with the army you have” camp acknowledge that Donald Trump — while appointing good judges and making the right call on Jerusalem and the tax plan — has been a PR disaster for the Conservative brand, and is the big reason why a new generation of young people either call themselves Progressive, or fancy themselves “independent” but think and invariably vote Progressive.

    film,

    The problem is that your premise doesn’t seem to be quite true. Trump has high negatives along with his positives in a pure PR evaluation, that is true. However, Trump just defeated the Dems in a budget showdown something General McClellan of the congressional leadership failed to do even once in the previous eight years.

    As Lincoln said of General Grant when asked about Grant’s drinking and incessant cigar smoking, “I can not do without him, he fights!”.

    Regards,

    Jim

    Jim in the last two years alone, your “fighter” has alienated an entire generation of U.S. voters for whom Conservatism has become synonymous with “racism” and “hatred.”

    Yes yes, it always was for young people — up to a point. But only up to a point. (Reagan, let us not forget, managed to win a youth majority in 1984)

    But now it is unprecedented.

    Jim, do you honestly think a demographic reckoning is not looming on the horizon?

    Are you honestly not worried about it?

    • #29
    • January 22, 2018 at 10:04 pm
    • 1 like
  30. Thatcher

    filmklassik (View Comment):
    Jim, do you honestly think a demographic reckoning is not looming on the horizon?

    Are you honestly not worried about it?

    film,

    Do you honestly think that Socialism works? If HRC had been elected we would have had one last experiment in the fantasy pseudo-economics of socialism. The last time the world got sucked in that deep 65 million people died in WWII.

    I think that enough people will realize that their survival depends on the truth. They know down deep that the media and the left are full of it. 27 democratic senators just blinked on the budget showdown. We haven’t seen that kind of crack in the Democrat phalanx for a very long time.

    I can’t tell you what will happen in 2018 but I think we have a better chance of victory then they do. Our chance depends on people recognizing all the right reasons. Theirs depends on people being bamboozled by all the wrong reasons.

    Regards,

    Jim

    • #30
    • January 23, 2018 at 11:14 am
    • Like
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