It’s a perennial story. The demise of mom-and-pop stores, the shuttering of small businesses across the country, the undercutting of local sellers by massive corporations — in short, the retail apocalypse. But economist Michael Mandel has looked at the data and finds a much different story. Not only is the economy adding more jobs than it’s shedding thanks to the massive online retailers allegedly wreaking havoc across the United States, these new jobs actually pay more as well.

His work cuts against the conventional wisdom, and he joined the show to explain his case. We also discuss America’s productivity problem, whether the official stats are mismeasuring it, and how we think we’ll look back on the economy 25 years from now.

Michael Mandel is the chief economic strategist at the Progressive Policy Institute.

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