The Wrap on “Thrones”

One of the constants on this podcast from the very start has been Game of Thrones. That’s despite the fact that one of the hosts can’t stand the show. That’s why when we really want to get into the weeds on the how, we call in two experts on the genre and the show: the Free Beacon’s Sonny Bunch and the New York Times’ Ross Douthat. Together with John and Jonah, they parse the good, the bad, what worked and what didn’t. Needless to say, this episode of GLoP contains MAJOR Game of Thrones spoilers so if you have not seen the series finale, you should not listen to this podcast until you have.

Dracarys!

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  1. Bishop Wash Member
    Bishop Wash
    @BishopWash

    I ask for BLoG or GLoB and the first time you get Sonny on the show it’s to replace Rob and not John. Such is my life. 

    Haven’t finished yet, but Ross’ cursing around the 42 minute mark got through in my copy. Not offended but was shocked to hear the word instead of the expected beep. 

    • #1
  2. Blue Yeti Admin
    Blue Yeti
    @BlueYeti

    Bishop Wash (View Comment):

    I ask for BLoG or GLoB and the first time you get Sonny on the show it’s to replace Rob and not John. Such is my life.

    Haven’t finished yet, but Ross’ cursing around the 42 minute mark got through in my copy. Not offended but was shocked to hear the word instead of the expected beep.

    A new, bleeped version has now been uploaded. Apologies for letting the F-bomb through. 

    • #2
  3. EJHill Podcaster
    EJHill
    @EJHill

    The best thing about the Game of Thrones finale is that those of us who ignored the whole thing get to smugly say, “And you wasted 3 whole days and 16 minutes of your life for THAT?”

    • #3
  4. Texmoor Coolidge
    Texmoor
    @Texmoor

    I heartily agree with Ross’ comments!

    • #4
  5. Jerry Giordano (Arizona Patrio… Member
    Jerry Giordano (Arizona Patrio…
    @ArizonaPatriot

    Excellent podcast.  Thanks.

    • #5
  6. RPD Member
    RPD
    @RPD

    I think the key point here is that after book three Martin didn’t know where he was going and was continuing to introduce new characters and story arcs to delay the inevitable.

    • #6
  7. kedavis Member
    kedavis
    @kedavis

    Blue Yeti (View Comment):

    Bishop Wash (View Comment):

    I ask for BLoG or GLoB and the first time you get Sonny on the show it’s to replace Rob and not John. Such is my life.

    Haven’t finished yet, but Ross’ cursing around the 42 minute mark got through in my copy. Not offended but was shocked to hear the word instead of the expected beep.

    A new, bleeped version has now been uploaded. Apologies for letting the F-bomb through.

    Dang, I missed the good version!  Any way that both could be made available, one “safe” and the other not?

    • #7
  8. kedavis Member
    kedavis
    @kedavis

    RPD (View Comment):

    I think the key point here is that after book three Martin didn’t know where he was going and was continuing to introduce new characters and story arcs to delay the inevitable.

    Considering that he received death threats if he ever stopped, I can see why he might do that.

    • #8
  9. kedavis Member
    kedavis
    @kedavis

    And how is this #88?

    • #9
  10. Blue Yeti Admin
    Blue Yeti
    @BlueYeti

    kedavis (View Comment):

    And how is this #88?

    It’s not. Fixed. 

    • #10
  11. kedavis Member
    kedavis
    @kedavis

    Blue Yeti (View Comment):

    kedavis (View Comment):

    And how is this #88?

    It’s not. Fixed.

    It’s actually 121, since GLoP numbering has been off for a long time.  But I don’t really expect that to be fixed now.

    • #11
  12. Repmodad Coolidge
    Repmodad
    @Repmodad

    Ross and Jonah nailed it, I think. GoT failed down the stretch, not for the nit-picky reasons that tend to dominate Twitter, but for structural reasons related to the show-runners’ shortcomings. Benioff and Weiss are like interior designers required to finish a building after the architect has died without completing the blueprints.

    A better ending would have involved Ned Stark waking up next to Suzanne Pleshette.

    • #12
  13. kedavis Member
    kedavis
    @kedavis

    Repmodad (View Comment):

    Ross and Jonah nailed it, I think. GoT failed down the stretch, not for the nit-picky reasons that tend to dominate Twitter, but for structural reasons related to the show-runners’ shortcomings. Benioff and Weiss are like interior designers required to finish a building after the architect has died without completing the blueprints.

    A better ending would have involved Ned Stark waking up next to Suzanne Pleshette.

    Well Suzanne Pleshette is no longer with us.  How about Emilia Clarke waking up next to Bob Newhart? :-)

    • #13
  14. Blue Yeti Admin
    Blue Yeti
    @BlueYeti

    kedavis (View Comment):

    Blue Yeti (View Comment):

    kedavis (View Comment):

    And how is this #88?

    It’s not. Fixed.

    It’s actually 121, since GLoP numbering has been off for a long time. But I don’t really expect that to be fixed now.

    We’ll get this fixed at some point in the near future. 

    • #14
  15. kedavis Member
    kedavis
    @kedavis

    Bishop Wash (View Comment):

    I ask for BLoG or GLoB and the first time you get Sonny on the show it’s to replace Rob and not John. Such is my life.

    Haven’t finished yet, but Ross’ cursing around the 42 minute mark got through in my copy. Not offended but was shocked to hear the word instead of the expected beep.

    Can you put that someplace like on a dropbox or the like, so I can get the unexpurgated version?  I think the editing actually removes some of the meaning, too.

    • #15
  16. Bishop Wash Member
    Bishop Wash
    @BishopWash

    kedavis (View Comment):

    Bishop Wash (View Comment):

    I ask for BLoG or GLoB and the first time you get Sonny on the show it’s to replace Rob and not John. Such is my life.

    Haven’t finished yet, but Ross’ cursing around the 42 minute mark got through in my copy. Not offended but was shocked to hear the word instead of the expected beep.

    Can you put that someplace like on a dropbox or the like, so I can get the unexpurgated version? I think the editing actually removes some of the meaning, too.

    I’ll have to see if its still on my phone. If so, will do.

    • #16
  17. Dr.Guido Member
    Dr.Guido
    @DrGuido

    Replace most of  your 57 minutes with Andrew Klavan’s take on GOT. He realizes it WAS A STORY….and he also turns Dany into a dead Lefty. A MAGICAL interpretation!

    • #17
  18. Mendel Inactive
    Mendel
    @Mendel

    I believe Rob Long put it best when he said (and I quote):

    zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz

    I’m so glad this seemingly interminable series has finally met its end so that I don’t have to keep furtively skipping over major segments in my favorite podcasts.

    • #18
  19. Valiuth Inactive
    Valiuth
    @Valiuth

    Douthat is absolutely right. They dropped the ball because the writers were lazy and uninterested. Disney needs to fire them now before they do Star Wars, because Star Wars is literally a space fantasy. John is also right that Martin wrote himself in to a hole and could see no way out. A Song of Ice and Fire is a story telling failure on all sides and a cautionary tale. Some one call Brandon Sanderson, to finish up the books properly like he did with Wheel of Time. 

    • #19
  20. Blue Yeti Admin
    Blue Yeti
    @BlueYeti

    kedavis (View Comment):

    Bishop Wash (View Comment):

    I ask for BLoG or GLoB and the first time you get Sonny on the show it’s to replace Rob and not John. Such is my life.

    Haven’t finished yet, but Ross’ cursing around the 42 minute mark got through in my copy. Not offended but was shocked to hear the word instead of the expected beep.

    Can you put that someplace like on a dropbox or the like, so I can get the unexpurgated version? I think the editing actually removes some of the meaning, too.

    Sorry, I can’t do that. Use your imagination. 

    • #20
  21. Blue Yeti Admin
    Blue Yeti
    @BlueYeti

    Valiuth (View Comment):

    Douthat is absolutely right. They dropped the ball because the writers were lazy and uninterested. Disney needs to fire them now before they do Star Wars, because Star Wars is literally a space fantasy. John is also right that Martin wrote himself in to a hole and could see no way out. A Song of Ice and Fire is a story telling failure on all sides and a cautionary tale. Some one call Brandon Sanderson, to finish up the books properly like he did with Wheel of Time.

    As much as I’d like to blame Benihoff and Weiss for the problems with the show. I think it’s worth considering how much influence (or maybe interference is a better word) HBOATT had in this process. GRRM suggests in this interview that “the suits” were absolutely calling at least some of the shots. 

    • #21
  22. Henry Castaigne Member
    Henry Castaigne
    @HenryCastaigne

    I surprised that Jonah has endorsed full frontal male nudity. (44:35)

    • #22
  23. Valiuth Inactive
    Valiuth
    @Valiuth

    Henry Castaigne (View Comment):

    I surprised that Jonah has endorsed full frontal male nudity. (44:35)

    And that is why they can never turn the Remnant into a TV show, he does just endorse it he practices it. 

    • #23
  24. Valiuth Inactive
    Valiuth
    @Valiuth

    Blue Yeti (View Comment):

    Valiuth (View Comment):

    Douthat is absolutely right. They dropped the ball because the writers were lazy and uninterested. Disney needs to fire them now before they do Star Wars, because Star Wars is literally a space fantasy. John is also right that Martin wrote himself in to a hole and could see no way out. A Song of Ice and Fire is a story telling failure on all sides and a cautionary tale. Some one call Brandon Sanderson, to finish up the books properly like he did with Wheel of Time.

    As much as I’d like to blame Benihoff and Weiss for the problems with the show. I think it’s worth considering how much influence (or maybe interference is a better word) HBOATT had in this process. GRRM suggests in this interview that “the suits” were absolutely calling at least some of the shots.

    That is even worse, if they let the suits write any of this, because no great work of art has ever been made by committee.  I get that it’s a job, but sometimes part of your job is to tell your boss to leave you alone so you can actually do it. What’s the point of hiring a writer only to micromanage them by trying to tell them what character is popular? 

    • #24
  25. DJ EJ Member
    DJ EJ
    @DJEJ

    Dr.Guido (View Comment):

    Replace most of your 57 minutes with Andrew Klavan’s take on GOT. He realizes it WAS A STORY….and he also turns Dany into a dead Lefty. A MAGICAL interpretation!

    I haven’t listened to Klavan’s Monday episode, but my reaction to Daenerys’s speech (foreshadowed by Tyrion earlier in the episode) to Jon in the throne room was that she sounded like a progressive/socialist (not a neo-conservative as the hosts of this GLOP episode were musing). She didn’t want to bring liberation/self-determination to thousands of people, she wanted to remake the entire world into what her definition of good (true, right, just) was. Anything she believed and did was good and therefore the world needed to be remade as she saw fit, anyone that had the wrong identity (King’s Landing civilians, defeated King’s Landing soldiers) or disagreed and stood in her way had to die in order to remake the world for the better. Marxist revolution anyone? Bringing about heaven on earth? The writers may not have intended this but she sounded like a progressive/socialist to me.

    “We would be deceiving both ourselves and the people if we concealed from the masses the necessity of a desperate, bloody war of extermination, as the immediate task of the coming revolutionary action.” ~ Vladimir Lenin

    Finally, my understanding is that Bran is not immortal because the Night King interrupted/thwarted Bran’s process of becoming one with the tree, prompting his flight southward to Winterfell and his (partial) re-engagement with family and normal human interaction.

    • #25
  26. Julia1492 Member
    Julia1492
    @Julia1492

    kedavis (View Comment):

    Bishop Wash (View Comment):

    I ask for BLoG or GLoB and the first time you get Sonny on the show it’s to replace Rob and not John. Such is my life.

    Haven’t finished yet, but Ross’ cursing around the 42 minute mark got through in my copy. Not offended but was shocked to hear the word instead of the expected beep.

    Can you put that someplace like on a dropbox or the like, so I can get the unexpurgated version? I think the editing actually removes some of the meaning, too.

    I died laughing when I heard it. It perfectly expressed my own feelings. 

    • #26
  27. Bishop Wash Member
    Bishop Wash
    @BishopWash

    Bishop Wash (View Comment):

    kedavis (View Comment):

    Bishop Wash (View Comment):

    I ask for BLoG or GLoB and the first time you get Sonny on the show it’s to replace Rob and not John. Such is my life.

    Haven’t finished yet, but Ross’ cursing around the 42 minute mark got through in my copy. Not offended but was shocked to hear the word instead of the expected beep.

    Can you put that someplace like on a dropbox or the like, so I can get the unexpurgated version? I think the editing actually removes some of the meaning, too.

    I’ll have to see if its still on my phone. If so, will do.

    I can’t find it and the iPhone interface keeps stuff hidden. Since I don’t use Apple’s podcast program, the files aren’t in an easily accessible location. Next time I’ll download a copy onto a computer before throwing up the curse flag. Sorry.

    • #27
  28. kedavis Member
    kedavis
    @kedavis

    Julia1492 (View Comment):

    kedavis (View Comment):

    Bishop Wash (View Comment):

    I ask for BLoG or GLoB and the first time you get Sonny on the show it’s to replace Rob and not John. Such is my life.

    Haven’t finished yet, but Ross’ cursing around the 42 minute mark got through in my copy. Not offended but was shocked to hear the word instead of the expected beep.

    Can you put that someplace like on a dropbox or the like, so I can get the unexpurgated version? I think the editing actually removes some of the meaning, too.

    I died laughing when I heard it. It perfectly expressed my own feelings.

    Did you get the uncensored version, then?  Can you put it on a cloud service or Google Drive or something?

    • #28
  29. kedavis Member
    kedavis
    @kedavis

    Did anyone else get the uncensored version?  Help a Ricochetti out!

    • #29
  30. kedavis Member
    kedavis
    @kedavis

    I’ve listened to all of the Sub-Beacon podcasts.  It really can’t hold a candle to GLoP.

    Even this GLoP on the GoT finale, was far superior to the Sub-Beacon on the same subject.

    I suppose The Sub-Beacon had more fart jokes, but that’s not why I listen.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2gm29WZpBJc

    • #30