Olympic Equity Inspired by Title IX

 

New Zealand has a powerlifter on their Olympic team named Laurel Hubbard (pictured at right). She used to be a male powerlifter, but transitioned to a woman, and is now a female powerlifter.  Apparently using drugs, but not surgery. Although I hope you’ll forgive me for making little effort to get the details. I’d rather not think about such things. Regardless, as you might imagine, female competitors who happen to be women are not amused. They know they can’t say much without sounding like they’re discriminating against a protected class, but they’re not happy. They get one chance in their life to win a medal, and they would prefer to attempt that by competing against 0ther women.

How to resolve this issue without offending anyone? That’s a toughie, although I have a suggestion.  Just follow the guidance of Title IX – a law that sought to establish gender equity in sports. It required that there be an equal number of athletic scholarships for men and women. Ok, makes sense. So let’s require that there be an equal number of male-to-female transgenders as there are female-to-male transgenders competing.

‘Laurel’ can join the female powerlifting team as soon as someone who used to be a woman qualifies for the male powerlifting team. As long they maintain balance – equity! – then no one can complain. Problem fixed. No conflict. Simple. Gosh, I’m smart.

This is bonkers.

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  1. KentForrester Moderator
    KentForrester
    @KentForrester

    Doc, your solution still leaves men with reduced testosterone (though still with big muscles and power) competing against normal women.

    What in the hell is this world coming to? 

     

    • #1
  2. cdor Member
    cdor
    @cdor

    Dr. Bastiat: Problem fixed.  No conflict.  Simple.  Gosh, I’m smart.

    Well yes, you are very smart. But nothing is simple.seriously doubt that you fixed the problem, ended the conflict, and did so with an utterly simple solution. It is the left you are dealing with. Problems are created out of thin air, conflict is everywhere, and nothing is simple.

    • #2
  3. Henry Racette Contributor
    Henry Racette
    @HenryRacette

    I think this issue of men competing as women is, more than anything else, why the so-called “trans” movement is a bridge too far, and  why it will ultimately bring about the first significant reversal of major cultural progressive policy in my lifetime.

    Of course, I’m an optimist.

    • #3
  4. Doctor Robert Member
    Doctor Robert
    @DoctorRobert

    Looking at that power lifter, one suspects zhe took some extra testosterone during zher days as a male power lifter.

    “How to resolve this issue without offending anyone? That’s a toughie…”.  No it’s not.  Just enforce the same rules that the Olympics enforced for decades.  They used to look for Barr bodies (a sign of the inactivate X chromosome in a female) in cheek swabbings of suspect “female” athletes.  Female athletes have lost medals when discovered to be genetic males with androgen insensitivity.  The case of Ewa Klobukowska is especially sad, but at least she got her medals back.

    https://www.buzzfeednews.com/article/azeenghorayshi/sex-testing-olympians#:~:text=The%20test%20results%20were%20never%20made%20public%2C%20but,male%20imposter%2C%20and%20stripped%20her%20of%20her%20medals.

    • #4
  5. Dr. Bastiat Member
    Dr. Bastiat
    @drbastiat

    KentForrester (View Comment):
    your solution still leaves men with reduced testosterone (though still with big muscles and power) competing against normal women.

    No, it doesn’t.  Because no woman could qualify for the men’s power lifting team.  Which means there would be no men on the women’s power lifting team.  Equity.

    But as cdor pointed out above, logic and reason are unlikely to be helpful in resolving this situation.  Or, really, any debate with the left.

    • #5
  6. Percival Thatcher
    Percival
    @Percival

    Will anyone watch the dog and pony show when the dogs and ponies are just furries living their truth?

    • #6
  7. Dr. Bastiat Member
    Dr. Bastiat
    @drbastiat

    Doctor Robert (View Comment):

    Looking at that power lifter, one suspects zhe took some extra testosterone during zher days as a male power lifter.

    From male power lifting (lots of drugs), to chemical sex changes (even more drugs).

    Wow.

    Just imagine the substances that have flowed through that human’s bloodstream.  If he feels a little strange, it’s no wonder…

    • #7
  8. Jerry Giordano (Arizona Patrio… Member
    Jerry Giordano (Arizona Patrio…
    @ArizonaPatriot

    I’m probably starting to sound like a broken record on this point, but I’m going to say it again.

    The very existence of women’s sports is a violation of the principle of non-discrimination on the basis of sex.  If non-discrimination on the basis of sex is truly a valid moral principle, then men should not be excluded from any event.

    Our current rule seems to be that you can’t discriminate on the basis of sex, unless it benefits women, in which case you must.  The hypocrisy of this rule should be evident to everyone, but this does not appear to be the case.  I find this curious.

    • #8
  9. Henry Racette Contributor
    Henry Racette
    @HenryRacette

    Jerry Giordano (Arizona Patrio… (View Comment):

    I’m probably starting to sound like a broken record on this point, but I’m going to say it again.

    The very existence of women’s sports is a violation of the principle of non-discrimination on the basis of sex. If non-discrimination on the basis of sex is truly a valid moral principle, then men should not be excluded from any event.

    Our current rule seems to be that you can’t discriminate on the basis of sex, unless it benefits women, in which case you must. The hypocrisy of this rule should be evident to everyone, but this does not appear to be the case. I find this curious.

    As a man who believes that discrimination on the basis of sex is both appropriate and necessary, and that such discrimination should favor the fairer sex, I see no hypocrisy in women-only sports.

    • #9
  10. DonG (2+2=5. Say it!) Coolidge
    DonG (2+2=5. Say it!)
    @DonG

    “Equity” means equal outcomes.  Thus all athletes will need to be hobbled to point they are no stronger/faster/agile than non-athletes.  The perfectly woke Olympics would have mediocre persons showing identical and unremarkable performances.  Everyone gets a Bronze, since nobody deserves gold or silver.  Also, the “athletes” do not compete on behalf of a country, but on behalf of their intersectional identity.

    • #10
  11. DonG (2+2=5. Say it!) Coolidge
    DonG (2+2=5. Say it!)
    @DonG

    Jerry Giordano (Arizona Patrio… (View Comment):
    The very existence of women’s sports is a violation of the principle of non-discrimination on the basis of sex.  If non-discrimination on the basis of sex is truly a valid moral principle, then men should not be excluded from any event.

    Would you also eliminate weight and age classes for sports? 

    • #11
  12. ctlaw Coolidge
    ctlaw
    @ctlaw

    China and Russia didn’t invest billions in their doping programs to let something like this affect them. Thankfully, Hubbard is sufficiently old to not actually be a threat to them.

    Hubbard will probably barely break the top 10.

    • #12
  13. Stad Coolidge
    Stad
    @Stad

    Dr. Bastiat: How to resolve this issue without offending anyone?

    It can’t be done.  Therefore, the question is, “Whom do we offend?”

    If you want to be fair to real women, especially the tens of thousands of female athletes, you have to offend the male-to-female athlete.  Instead, the left wants to offend the tens of thousands of real women for a few dozen male athletes with mental conditions . . .

    • #13
  14. Henry Racette Contributor
    Henry Racette
    @HenryRacette

    Interesting line from the article, quoting New Zealand Olympic Committee chief executive Kareyn Smith:

    “We acknowledge that gender identity in sport is a highly sensitive and complex issue requiring a balance between human rights and fairness on the field of play.”

    It’s hard to read that without concluding that Ms. Smith is acknowledging that athletic fairness (“fairness on the field of play”) is being compromised in order to achieve a social goal. And it’s hard to square that with the claim that men competing as women don’t have an inherent advantage.

    • #14
  15. Henry Racette Contributor
    Henry Racette
    @HenryRacette

    Two of the most important threats facing our culture today are, in my opinion, the suppression of free expression (with the best of intentions, of course) and the embrace of absurdist identitarianism as exemplified by the “trans” movement.

    This article by Bari Weiss and her guest touches on both. I strongly recommend Ms. Weiss for her free newsletter and her excellent podcasts.

    The Books are Already Burning

     

    • #15
  16. KentForrester Moderator
    KentForrester
    @KentForrester

    Dr. Bastiat (View Comment):

    KentForrester (View Comment):
    your solution still leaves men with reduced testosterone (though still with big muscles and power) competing against normal women.

    No, it doesn’t. Because no woman could qualify for the men’s power lifting team. Which means there would be no men on the women’s power lifting team. Equity.

    But as cdor pointed out above, logic and reason are unlikely to be helpful in resolving this situation. Or, really, any debate with the left.

    Ah, I see.  I didn’t think that through. 

    • #16
  17. Barfly Member
    Barfly
    @Barfly

    Percival (View Comment):
    Will anyone watch the dog and pony show when the dogs and ponies are just furries living their truth?

    Heck yes. What channel is that on?

    • #17
  18. Jerry Giordano (Arizona Patrio… Member
    Jerry Giordano (Arizona Patrio…
    @ArizonaPatriot

    DonG (2+2=5. Say it!) (View Comment):

    Jerry Giordano (Arizona Patrio… (View Comment):
    The very existence of women’s sports is a violation of the principle of non-discrimination on the basis of sex. If non-discrimination on the basis of sex is truly a valid moral principle, then men should not be excluded from any event.

    Would you also eliminate weight and age classes for sports?

    I think that this is an incorrect analogy.  The proper analogy is to race discrimination, which is prohibited and morally disapproved, similar to the prohibition and disapproval of sex discrimination.

    I’m not much of a fan of the anti-discrimination laws.  If the law prohibits discrimination on the basis of weight, which I do not believe to be the case, then there is no hypocrisy in allowing weight classes.  Ditto for age, for the most part, though I think that there is some limited prohibition on age discrimination.

    • #18
  19. Dr. Bastiat Member
    Dr. Bastiat
    @drbastiat

    Henry Racette (View Comment):

    Interesting line from the article, quoting New Zealand Olympic Committee chief executive Kareyn Smith:

    “We acknowledge that gender identity in sport is a highly sensitive and complex issue requiring a balance between human rights and fairness on the field of play.”

    It’s hard to read that without concluding that Ms. Smith is acknowledging that athletic fairness (“fairness on the field of play”) is being compromised in order to achieve a social goal. And it’s hard to square that with the claim that men competing as women don’t have an inherent advantage.

    I was an athlete for years.  My kids are athletes now.

    I don’t recall human rights being an issue in athletics.

    Of course, that was before they invented gender identity.

    Um, wait a second…no, I still don’t think that human rights is an issue in athletics. 

    That’s why we love athletics.  We’re just playing a game.  We’re escaping the issues of the day, to watch a game.

    Or, at least, we’re trying…

    • #19
  20. The Reticulator Member
    The Reticulator
    @TheReticulator

    Dr. Bastiat (View Comment):
    That’s why we love athletics.  We’re just playing a game.  We’re escaping the issues of the day, to watch a game.

    Not necessarily. In Ireland, athletics were a means of expressing and promoting Irish nationalism. Sports clubs were very political. They still are, to some extent.  

    • #20
  21. Jerry Giordano (Arizona Patrio… Member
    Jerry Giordano (Arizona Patrio…
    @ArizonaPatriot

    Henry Racette (View Comment):

    Jerry Giordano (Arizona Patrio… (View Comment):

    I’m probably starting to sound like a broken record on this point, but I’m going to say it again.

    The very existence of women’s sports is a violation of the principle of non-discrimination on the basis of sex. If non-discrimination on the basis of sex is truly a valid moral principle, then men should not be excluded from any event.

    Our current rule seems to be that you can’t discriminate on the basis of sex, unless it benefits women, in which case you must. The hypocrisy of this rule should be evident to everyone, but this does not appear to be the case. I find this curious.

    As a man who believes that discrimination on the basis of sex is both appropriate and necessary, and that such discrimination should favor the fairer sex, I see no hypocrisy in women-only sports.

    Interesting.

    In all things, or just in sports, or in sports plus other things?  Firefighting?  Combat?

    • #21
  22. The Reticulator Member
    The Reticulator
    @TheReticulator

    Jerry Giordano (Arizona Patrio… (View Comment):

    Interesting.

    In all things, or just in sports, or in sports plus other things?  Firefighting?  Combat?

    We allow children to form their own sports teams rather than have them compete against adults. We don’t allow them to form their own combat units to go out and kill enemies. 

    • #22
  23. Dr. Bastiat Member
    Dr. Bastiat
    @drbastiat

    Jerry Giordano (Arizona Patrio… (View Comment):

    Henry Racette (View Comment):

    Jerry Giordano (Arizona Patrio… (View Comment):

    I’m probably starting to sound like a broken record on this point, but I’m going to say it again.

    The very existence of women’s sports is a violation of the principle of non-discrimination on the basis of sex. If non-discrimination on the basis of sex is truly a valid moral principle, then men should not be excluded from any event.

    Our current rule seems to be that you can’t discriminate on the basis of sex, unless it benefits women, in which case you must. The hypocrisy of this rule should be evident to everyone, but this does not appear to be the case. I find this curious.

    As a man who believes that discrimination on the basis of sex is both appropriate and necessary, and that such discrimination should favor the fairer sex, I see no hypocrisy in women-only sports.

    Interesting.

    In all things, or just in sports, or in sports plus other things? Firefighting? Combat?

    In things that really matter, you just want the best people.

    In sports, it’s interesting to see equally matched contests.  Like girls basketball.  Or weight classes in wrestling.

    • #23
  24. KevinKrisher Coolidge
    KevinKrisher
    @KevinKrisher

    Here’s a possible solution.

    Do away with the categories of men’s sports and women’s sports. Replace them with the categories of sports for people with one X and one Y chromosome, and sports for people with two X chromosomes. Just require a cheek swab to determine the category in which an athlete may compete.

    Gosh darn it, that’s science! Find the inequity in that!

    • #24
  25. Full Size Tabby Member
    Full Size Tabby
    @FullSizeTabby

    Jerry Giordano (Arizona Patrio… (View Comment):

    I’m probably starting to sound like a broken record on this point, but I’m going to say it again.

    The very existence of women’s sports is a violation of the principle of non-discrimination on the basis of sex. If non-discrimination on the basis of sex is truly a valid moral principle, then men should not be excluded from any event.

    Our current rule seems to be that you can’t discriminate on the basis of sex, unless it benefits women, in which case you must. The hypocrisy of this rule should be evident to everyone, but this does not appear to be the case. I find this curious.

    As broad groups, men and women are different. So the idea of treating men and women the same, as though there were no differences, has always been, and continues to be, doomed. Since the differences between men and women are much larger than the differences between people of different races. that the legal and social power brokers just took principles of non-discrimination from race and applied them to sex was a particularly ill-conceived idea. 

    • #25
  26. Stad Coolidge
    Stad
    @Stad

    Jerry Giordano (Arizona Patrio… (View Comment):
    Ditto for age, for the most part, though I think that there is some limited prohibition on age discrimination.

    When I fenced, I was in the Senior classification.  In all the tournaments I was in, there was no “discrimination” based on age or sex.  BTW, there’s something sexy about beating a pretty college girl – just sayin’ . . .

    Once you get into the upper levels (national, international, olympic), then the classifications kick in.

    • #26
  27. Jim McConnell Member
    Jim McConnell
    @JimMcConnell

    KevinKrisher (View Comment):

    Here’s a possible solution.

    Do away with the categories of men’s sports and women’s sports. Replace them with the categories of sports for people with one X and one Y chromosome, and sports for people with two X chromosomes. Just require a cheek swab to determine the category in which an athlete may compete.

    Gosh darn it, that’s science! Find the inequity in that!

    But that’s too simple.

    If we did that, we’d have to find something else to argue and form factions about.

    • #27
  28. CACrabtree Coolidge
    CACrabtree
    @CACrabtree

    “They know that they can’t say much without sounding like they’re discriminating against a protected class…”

    Exactly.  If a feminist icon such as Martina Navratilova can’t raise an objection (without being shouted down) what chance do they have?

    • #28
  29. KevinKrisher Coolidge
    KevinKrisher
    @KevinKrisher

    Jim McConnell (View Comment):

    KevinKrisher (View Comment):

    Here’s a possible solution.

    Do away with the categories of men’s sports and women’s sports. Replace them with the categories of sports for people with one X and one Y chromosome, and sports for people with two X chromosomes. Just require a cheek swab to determine the category in which an athlete may compete.

    Gosh darn it, that’s science! Find the inequity in that!

    But that’s too simple.

    If we did that, we’d have to find something else to argue and form factions about.

    Knock off that patronizing XY-splaining!

    • #29
  30. MarciN Member
    MarciN
    @MarciN

    I wonder how big this issue is. I guess if there’s money on the table, there is incentive for men to want to compete in women’s sports. 

    How did such a marginal issue become so important? It’s hard to fathom why so many men are trying to compete in the women’s sports divisions. It’s not strictly about ability and talent because the men haven’t won anything significant. If I were to compete against kids in some area in which I’ve had a lot of experience, if I won, the win would be meaningless. 

     

    • #30