Is Covid ‘Ferocious’ in India?

 

You can find a million examples like this, but I’m posting it anyway.

The news:

Note the word “ferocious” in the above. “India is experiencing a ferocious new Covid-19 wave.”

Now let’s look at the data:

Yes, India had a recent rise in cases, and it was definitely a cause for concern. There is a new variant that makes it doubly a cause for concern.  But look at the case rate in context, on a “per-million” basis.  It didn’t get to the levels seen in the EU or US, and now seems on a downward trend.  That could change, of course, but to call it “ferocious?”

India’s covid death rate was rising along with its case rate, suggesting that it wasn’t a nothing-burger.  But it seems to have leveled off, well short of levels seen in the EU and US.  There could be new peaks to come. So, a matter of concern, yes. But “ferocious?”  Maybe that word should be saved for later, in case it comes about.

In most parts of the world, the drop in covid cases and deaths seems roughly correlated with an increase in vaccinations.  But India still has only 10 percent of its population vaccinated.  That is a matter of concern. One wonders what could keep the case and death rates from rising again, and quickly. But it’s a little early to be calling what we’ve had so far, “ferocious,” isn’t it?

But that’s our news media. They do what they do.

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  1. Hammer, The (Ryan M) Inactive
    Hammer, The (Ryan M)
    @RyanM

    The Reticulator (View Comment):

    Steven Seward (View Comment):
    Not to mention that the United States counts everybody who dies and happens to have had Covid recently, as a Covid death, even in cases when no Covid has been detected through testing. The CDC guidelines require only that a doctor suspects that a decedent had Covid.

    Would be good to have some documentation on that. And also some idea of how many deaths it could account for.

    https://www.americanthinker.com/articles/2021/05/lets_demand_a_recountof_covid_deaths.html

    • #31
  2. DonG (2+2=5. Say it!) Coolidge
    DonG (2+2=5. Say it!)
    @DonG

    Old Bathos (View Comment):
    (4) Mask use was likely a marginal help at best (we made it a religious civic duty).

    In 2019, the CDC recommendation was that masks were not helpful for respiratory viruses for common people.  There is some evidence that professionals can benefit, but not regular people in the real world.  I expect the calculus might change with Wuhan Lab Flu that has an R0 of about 3.0, but there were no studies to confirm it.

    The entire medical profession failed by allowing for literal sham studies against HCQ to be published in leading journals and promoted everywhere.  Further the profession (mostly) went along with the Big Pharma block on treatments.  Millions died because the profession as a whole failed.   Yes, there were some brave medical professionals–true heroes–that went against the established and treated patients and saved lives, but not enough.   10 years from now most people will think about the toilet paper shortages, but I will think about how the medical profession industry failed, when the world most needed them and how a little bureaucrat with a Brooklyn accent secretly funded a lab that created a deadly Frankenvirus and was treated as a hero.

    • #32
  3. Steven Seward Member
    Steven Seward
    @StevenSeward

    The Reticulator (View Comment):

    Steven Seward (View Comment):
    Not to mention that the United States counts everybody who dies and happens to have had Covid recently, as a Covid death, even in cases when no Covid has been detected through testing. The CDC guidelines require only that a doctor suspects that a decedent had Covid.

    Would be good to have some documentation on that. And also some idea of how many deaths it could account for.

    Here are the CDC guidelines on reporting Covid deaths:

    https://www.cdc.gov/nchs/data/nvss/vsrg/vsrg03-508.pdf

    Here is the first critical paragraph from the guidelines (bold italics are mine):

    “If COVID–19 played a role in the death, this condition should be specified on the death certificate. In many cases, it is likely that it will be the UCOD (underlying cause of death), as it can lead to various life-threatening conditions, such as pneumonia and acute respiratory distress syndrome (ARDS). In these cases, COVID–19 should be reported on the lowest line used in Part I with the other conditions to which it gave rise listed on the lines above it.”

    Here is the second critical paragraph (bold italics are mine):

    “In cases where a definite diagnosis of COVID–19 cannot be made, but it is suspected or likely (e.g., the circumstances are compelling within a reasonable degree of certainty), it is acceptable to report COVID–19 on a death certificate as “probable” or “presumed.” In these instances, certifiers should use their best clinical judgement in determining if a COVID–19 infection was likely. However, please note that testing for COVID–19 should be conducted whenever possible.”

    Now here is Dr. Deborah Birx saying “If someone dies with Covid-19, we are counting that as a Covid-19 death.”  She goes on to say that other countries count Covid deaths differently than the U.S.

    https://www.realclearpolitics.com/video/2020/04/08/dr_birx_unlike_some_countries_if_someone_dies_with_covid-19_we_are_counting_that_as_a_covid-19_death.html

    Now combine these liberal guidelines with the cash payouts to hospitals from the Federal Gubmint; 10,000 Dollars for a Covid death, and 40,000 Dollars for a Covid patient on a respirator, and you’ve got a mixture ripe for over-reporting Covid deaths.

    • #33
  4. Old Bathos Member
    Old Bathos
    @OldBathos

    Steven Seward (View Comment):

    The Reticulator (View Comment):

    Steven Seward (View Comment):
    Not to mention that the United States counts everybody who dies and happens to have had Covid recently, as a Covid death, even in cases when no Covid has been detected through testing. The CDC guidelines require only that a doctor suspects that a decedent had Covid.

    Would be good to have some documentation on that. And also some idea of how many deaths it could account for.

    Here are the CDC guidelines on reporting Covid deaths:

    https://www.cdc.gov/nchs/data/nvss/vsrg/vsrg03-508.pdf

    Here is the first critical paragraph from the guidelines (bold italics are mine):

    “If COVID–19 played a role in the death, this condition should be specified on the death certificate. In many cases, it is likely that it will be the UCOD (underlying cause of death), as it can lead to various life-threatening conditions, such as pneumonia and acute respiratory distress syndrome (ARDS). In these cases, COVID–19 should be reported on the lowest line used in Part I with the other conditions to which it gave rise listed on the lines above it.”

    Here is the second critical paragraph (bold italics are mine):

    “In cases where a definite diagnosis of COVID–19 cannot be made, but it is suspected or likely (e.g., the circumstances are compelling within a reasonable degree of certainty), it is acceptable to report COVID–19 on a death certificate as “probable” or “presumed.” In these instances, certifiers should use their best clinical judgement in determining if a COVID–19 infection was likely. However, please note that testing for COVID–19 should be conducted whenever possible.”

    Now here is Dr. Deborah Birx saying “If someone dies with Covid-19, we are counting that as a Covid-19 death.” She goes on to say that other countries count Covid deaths differently than the U.S.

    https://www.realclearpolitics.com/video/2020/04/08/dr_birx_unlike_some_countries_if_someone_dies_with_covid-19_we_are_counting_that_as_a_covid-19_death.html

    Now combine these liberal guidelines with the cash payouts to hospitals from the Federal Gubmint; 10,000 Dollars for a Covid death, and 40,000 Dollars for a Covid patient on a respirator, and you’ve got a mixture ripe for over-reporting Covid deaths.

    The problem with the idea that COVID death counts in the US are inflated is that the raw numbers of excess deaths are so high that mis-attribution cannot possibly account for a large share of of that.

    Excess deaths among persons with Alzheimer’s were massive which is both a restatement of the age range of likely COVID victims and the effects of isolation and disruption of normal life. A number of COVID cases were contracted in hospitals by patients who were likely making their last visit there anyway so COVID death counts may be a tad misleading in those instances. But how many people without COVID died from lack of treatment, despair etc who are not counted as COVID deaths. 

    • #34
  5. Gazpacho Grande' Coolidge
    Gazpacho Grande'
    @ChrisCampion

    There’s money to be made with a billion shots of vaccine.  Hence, the ferocious.

    • #35
  6. Gazpacho Grande' Coolidge
    Gazpacho Grande'
    @ChrisCampion

    Old Bathos (View Comment):

    Unsk (View Comment):
    “The success was credited to a well-enforced lockdown and vigilant authorities, along with testing and other resources being able to make it to the more populated areas of India.”

    As I have said before, taking credit for a COVID wave receding is like claiming that effective anti-aircraft strategies and technologies caused Japanese aircraft to leave Pearl Harbor. It is pure superstition to look around for some policy magic that made the bad thing retreat when it clearly retreated on its own terms within its own pattern.

    I’ve been thinking about this a bit more.  What we really have from a policy response is (wait for it):  Raiders of the Lost Ark.

    First, let’s all pull out our bullwhips.

    Secondly, let’s note, that all the events of the movie would have happened had Jones done nothing.  The dig for the Ark.  Transporting the Ark.  The Ark stops for tacos.  The Arc kills a bunch of Nazis and then just sits there, silently, burping up tacos.

    Indy was just along for the ride.  At least he got to wear that hat.  All we got were masks.

    Exit notes, Film, Indiana jones, Movies, Raiders

     

    • #36
  7. Dr. Bastiat Member
    Dr. Bastiat
    @drbastiat

    Saint Augustine (View Comment):

    Clearly, you don’t know what science is. Science is not a process of investigating the world by means of making theories and predictions that don’t fit all possible sets of data and then testing them with experiments likely to accumulate relevant data.

    No, it’s definitely not that.

    Science is a method of giving intellectual respectability to uninformed denunciations of Republicans.

    Comment of the month.

    • #37
  8. Percival Thatcher
    Percival
    @Percival

    Gazpacho Grande' (View Comment):
    Secondly, let’s note, that all the events of the movie would have happened had Jones done nothing.  The dig for the Ark.  Transporting the Ark.  The Ark stops for tacos.  The Arc kills a bunch of Nazis and then just sits there, silently, burping up tacos.

    Hah! You can’t silently burp up a taco. I’ve tried.

    • #38
  9. Zafar Member
    Zafar
    @Zafar

    MarciN (View Comment):

    One other difference between the United States and India is life expectancy. In India, as of 2019 it was approximately 70 years; in the United States, it’s approximately 78. I wonder if the patients in India are slightly younger and better able to recover from covid-19. Also, we’ve learned a lot about treatment in the past year. I would think that too would lead to better outcomes.

    The median age in India is about 29. The median age in the US is about 38.

    We had thought that this would be an advantage – and maybe it is – but what turned out to be more significant is the state of the public health system, which is awful.

    All else being equal means that a younger population will do better, but all else was not equal – so comparing India and the US is very hard to do with just a focus on median age and death rate.

    • #39
  10. Old Bathos Member
    Old Bathos
    @OldBathos

    Saint Augustine (View Comment):

    Old Bathos (View Comment):

    As I have said before, taking credit for a COVID wave receding is like claiming that effective anti-aircraft strategies and technologies caused Japanese aircraft to leave Pearl Harbor. It is pure superstition to look around for some policy magic that made the bad thing retreat when it clearly retreated on its own terms within its own pattern.

    Clearly, you don’t know what science is. Science is not a process of investigating the world by means of making theories and predictions that don’t fit all possible sets of data and then testing them with experiments likely to accumulate relevant data.

    No, it’s definitely not that.

    Science is a method of giving intellectual respectability to uninformed denunciations of Republicans.

    I think we need to distinguish “#Science” (a Twitter Consensus on campus) from “Science” (lab stuff, numbers, and observation)   In the same sort of circular causal reality that our Mother Gaia affirms, #Science becomes Science when it validates the Narrative (Peace Be Upon It) and the Narrative is obviously true because it is supported by Science.   To be apart from the Narrative, makes one a denier or a/an [fill in the blank]-phobe.  Denunciation of such persons is merely a restatement of the moral condition they created for themselves.  People who notice that polar bears are not extinct or that there appears to be a physical, biological basis for sexual identity cannot be doing Science because those errors contradict the Narrative. which is based on Science now that Science and #Science are one.  How many fingers am I holding up, Winston, and why is the use of numbers inherently racist?

    • #40
  11. GlennAmurgis Coolidge
    GlennAmurgis
    @GlennAmurgis

    Arahant (View Comment):

    Who benefits? Who is enemies with India? Anyone who might have a virology lab where this virus developed? Hmmnnn. . .

    At the start of covid, China and India were involved in a border war 

     

    • #41
  12. Arahant Member
    Arahant
    @Arahant

    GlennAmurgis (View Comment):

    Arahant (View Comment):

    Who benefits? Who is enemies with India? Anyone who might have a virology lab where this virus developed? Hmmnnn. . .

    At the start of covid, China and India were involved in a border war

    Ding! Ding! Ding! Give that man a prize! And for extra points whose side is the press on?

    • #42
  13. Marythefifth Inactive
    Marythefifth
    @Marythefifth

    Taras (View Comment):

    Charlotte (View Comment):

    Old Bathos (View Comment):
    The COVID pandemic is not over so as your governor I direct that the emergency order to only eat pizza while standing on one foot and wearing clean underwear as a hat be extended by another 30 days. We are all in this together.

    Now this might actually do the trick!

    Ridiculous! The elephants will trample you anyway, if you don’t snap your fingers as well.

    I’ve been worried about those elephants all this time as well.

    • #43
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