Not My Department

 

The general and specific erudition of the Ricochet community makes me hesitant to post this, since you never know if you’re wading into an argument that was settled long ago by those who know the subject.  So forgive me. 

One of the greatest movies of the early 20th century is Metropolis, a German silent sci-fi film by the brilliant Fritz Lang. A few years ago I found a copy of Spies, the movie he made between Metropolis and M, and was knocked out – with its gadgets, it could be a Bond film.  After Mabuse’s chilly reception by the Nazis, he moved to America in 1933, and something was ever after lacking in his work.

Okay. Hold that thought. 

I listened to an audiobook of V2, a recent and lesser novel by one of my favorite authors, Robert Harris. It pings back and forth between the later days of the V2 program and the British attempt to foil it. One of the characters: Werner Von Braun. He’s depicted as bold, charismatic, and shall we say a tad evasive about the human costs of his scientific endeavors. His passion is rocketry. Science! If it means putting on this silly black uniform to get things done, then fine, fine, but the important thing is building the craft that will get man into space. Harris keeps the character remote and intriguing, unknowable, driven.

A flashback describes the German rocket experimental / testing facility at Peenemünde, and the author has Von Braun telling his protege, the fictional German rocket engineer who anchors the Nazi portions of the book, that it will be just like the rocket city in the movie they loved.

Woman in the Moon. 

Wikipedia:

It is often considered to be one of the first “serious” science fiction films. It was written and directed by Fritz Lang, based on the 1928 novel The Rocket to the Moon by his collaborator Thea von Harbou, his wife at the time. It was released in the US as By Rocket to the Moon and in the UK as Woman in the Moon. The basics of rocket travel were presented to a mass audience for the first time by this film, including the use of a multi-stage rocket.

Rocket scientist Hermann Oberth worked as an advisor on this movie. He had originally intended to build a working rocket for use in the film, but time and technology prevented this from happening. The film was popular among the rocket scientists in Wernher von Braun‘s circle. The first successfully launched V-2 rocket at the rocket-development facility in Peenemünde had the Frau im Mond logo painted on its base.

It was a cultural reference point among the engineers: they were young men, proto-nerds, and they’d all seen Woman in the Moon in high school or their early 20s. It had changed them or recharged them, showed them what was possible. 

I’d never heard of the movie. It’s on YouTube. 

The rocket base:

 

The spacecraft leaving the Vehicular Assembly Building on rail tracks:

 

 

It’s all there.

I mention this for two reasons. One: we tend to fix the start of sci-fi movies in the post-war era, but this is a reminder there was a geek culture in the 20s, and the men who worked on rockets in the 40s had their own Star Wars and Star Trek. Mostly pulp magazines with cheap illustrations, of course – so imagine how a movie by Fritz frickin’ Lang made an impression. 

Two: the plot of the movie requires the scientist to go along with gangsters who want to exploit the moon shot for personal profit; he agrees, because Science! You have to wonder whether Von Braun thought of this while making his own deals. Probably not a lot. But you suspect it was there, no? 

If so, you wonder about the scene in the v2 book where Von Braun tours the Mittlewerk facility where the V2 was fabricated. Harris describes the deplorable state of the slave workers, beaten men shuffling through underground tunnels in their grey uniforms. I thought instantly of this:

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

It’s from Metropolis, of course. He had to know. He had to know, for a moment, that he was occupying two competing visions simultaneously, that the movie he revered was made by a man who condemned the world he was making.  

In the end, he made a different world possible. 

How much do the whys and hows matter?

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  1. TheRightNurse Member
    TheRightNurse
    @TheRightNurse

    First off, let me say how much I love that you left it to your Ricochet members to upvote this.  Secondly, let me confirm: Ricochet people know what they like and they like you!

    This is excellent.

    Working in healthcare, I think about this sort of thing a lot.  When we look at stem cell research (wonderful! It can be anything! Fix it all!), I’m surprised at how dense the scientists are about the human cost and about the lack of respect for human bodies.  I’m genuinely surprised, at times, that they don’t really recognize it.  Being too close can sometimes blind a person to the cost and to the larger ramifications…but…

    Sometimes I wonder if they aren’t just putting their heads in the sand for the sake of their Beautiful Dreams.  They hope that it will do great things and use that hope to camouflage their fears that they might do something else too.  I can only believe that the cognitive dissonance is such that they don’t just rationalize it; they completely deny the existence of any other repercussions.  They simply do not exist and are somehow someone else’s problem for another day.

    • #31
  2. TheRightNurse Member
    TheRightNurse
    @TheRightNurse

    Stad (View Comment):

    There’s only one true movie about Nazis, rockets, and the Moon. I give you Iron Sky. Here’s a link to get you to the trailer:

    https://www.imdb.com/video/vi3653215513?playlistId=tt1034314&ref_=tt_pr_ov_vi

    Although the movie appears to be a thiller in the trailer, it’s more of a comedy. I love President Sarah Palin! Hopefully the sequel is equally as funny:

    https://www.imdb.com/video/vi2720119833?playlistId=tt3038708&ref_=tt_pr_ov_vi

    Also:

    Yes.  They are both amazing.  The first in the Moon Nazis.  The second in the Lizard People.  Great watches.

    • #32
  3. CACrabtree Coolidge
    CACrabtree
    @CACrabtree

    Percival (View Comment):

    Judge Mental (View Comment):

    “Our Germans are better than their Germans.”

    Eventually, their Germans were our Germans.

    Ah, Operation Paperclip.  (Preceded by Operation Overcast.)

    And Americans were introduced to the ambiguities of the Cold War.

    • #33
  4. Stad Coolidge
    Stad
    @Stad

    GLDIII Temporarily Essential (View Comment):

    Stad (View Comment):

    There’s only one true movie about Nazis, rockets, and the Moon. I give you Iron Sky. Here’s a link to get you to the trailer:

    https://www.imdb.com/video/vi3653215513?playlistId=tt1034314&ref_=tt_pr_ov_vi

    Although the movie appears to be a thiller in the trailer, it’s more of a comedy. I love President Sarah Palin! Hopefully the sequel is equally as funny:

    https://www.imdb.com/video/vi2720119833?playlistId=tt3038708&ref_=tt_pr_ov_vi

    Dinosaurs, Nazis, and a president Palin and it is not a comedy?

    Oh, it’s guaranteed to be . . .

    • #34
  5. Living High and Wide Member
    Living High and Wide
    @OldDanRhody

    Judge Mental (View Comment):

    Percival (View Comment):

    Judge Mental (View Comment):

    “Our Germans are better than their Germans.”

    Eventually, their Germans were our Germans.

    That’s a line from The Right Stuff. The Germans in question were our Germans and the Soviet’s Germans.

    As the British spy said to the American submarine commander in Ice Station Zebra, “The Russians put your film, made by your German Scientists, into our camera made by our German scientists, into their satellite made by their German scientists…”

    • #35
  6. Bryan G. Stephens Thatcher
    Bryan G. Stephens
    @BryanGStephens

    James Lileks (View Comment):

    KevinKrisher (View Comment):

    My favorite pre-war sci-fi film is Things to Come, based on the H.G. Wells novel. It combines the stunning visuals of the Korda brothers with terrific acting by, among others, Sir Ralph Richardson.

    It is also the first WWII movie. It was released two years before war broke out, at a time that many people knew it was coming. It predicts a war that extends from 1940 until 1954, and that reduces civilization to a pre-industrial state with a few remnants of modern technology.

    Uhhh . . . hmm. Seen it lately? ;) I remember seeing it when I was 15, and it made a deep impression as well, thanks to the visuals. I revisited it a few years ago, and it’s appalling piece of techno-fascism.

    I agree that it is. Appealed to my inner technocrat as a teen. 

     

    • #36
  7. colleenb Member
    colleenb
    @colleenb

    Living High and Wide (View Comment):

    Judge Mental (View Comment):

    Percival (View Comment):

    Judge Mental (View Comment):

    “Our Germans are better than their Germans.”

    Eventually, their Germans were our Germans.

    That’s a line from The Right Stuff. The Germans in question were our Germans and the Soviet’s Germans.

    As the British spy said to the American submarine commander in Ice Station Zebra, “The Russians put your film, made by your German Scientists, into our camera made by our German scientists, into their satellite made by their German scientists…”

    Ah yes. Ice Station Zebra – one of my guilty pleasures. It’s practically impossible to figure out but Patrick McGoohan chews so much scenery I’m amazed there was any left in the whole of Hollywood. Always put a British actor up against an American movie idol if you want some acting. See Alan Rickman opposite Bruce Willis, Kevin Costner, etc.

    • #37
  8. KevinKrisher Inactive
    KevinKrisher
    @KevinKrisher

    DrewInTherapy (View Comment):

    KevinKrisher (View Comment):

    My favorite pre-war sci-fi film is Things to Come, based on the H.G. Wells novel. It combines the stunning visuals of the Korda brothers with terrific acting by, among others, Sir Ralph Richardson.

    It is also the first WWII movie. It was released two years before war broke out, at a time that many people knew it was coming. It predicts a war that extends from 1940 until 1954, and that reduces civilization to a pre-industrial state with a few remnants of modern technology.

    I should watch that. The book is basically an extended fake history text depicting a glorious fascist future. A few years back Big Finish did an audio adaptation that I reviewed here (https://ricochet.com/members/drewinwisconsin/activity/1637861/). And . . . yikes. Two hours of Marxist propaganda. If it’s intended to be a tragedy, then I hope listeners were properly horrified.

    How does the film turn that plotless book into an actual narrative?

    H.G. Wells’ political views were truly awful. In a 1932 speech at Oxford University, he said that he supported the idea of “liberal fascism.”

    • #38
  9. KevinKrisher Inactive
    KevinKrisher
    @KevinKrisher

    James Lileks (View Comment):

    KevinKrisher (View Comment):

    My favorite pre-war sci-fi film is Things to Come, based on the H.G. Wells novel. It combines the stunning visuals of the Korda brothers with terrific acting by, among others, Sir Ralph Richardson.

    It is also the first WWII movie. It was released two years before war broke out, at a time that many people knew it was coming. It predicts a war that extends from 1940 until 1954, and that reduces civilization to a pre-industrial state with a few remnants of modern technology.

    Uhhh . . . hmm. Seen it lately? ;) I remember seeing it when I was 15, and it made a deep impression as well, thanks to the visuals. I revisited it a few years ago, and it’s appalling piece of techno-fascism.

    Yes, it’s from the brief period in the 1930s when fascism was semi-respectable in Britain. This was also true of America, where Hollywood produced a big-budget fantasy called Gabriel Over the White House, in which the heroic president disbands Congress, has lots of people shot, and threatens to attack other countries.

    But the most amazing thing about Things to Come is Raymond Massey’s outfit.

    • #39
  10. DrewInTherapy Member
    DrewInTherapy
    @DrewInWisconsin

    colleenb (View Comment):
    Ah yes. Ice Station Zebra – one of my guilty pleasures. It’s practically impossible to figure out but Patrick McGoohan chews so much scenery I’m amazed there was any left in the whole of Hollywood.

    I have checked it out from the library so many times, and fail to finish it.

    I may end up just buying a copy to force myself to do it.

    • #40
  11. Miffed White Male Member
    Miffed White Male
    @MiffedWhiteMale

    DrewInTherapy (View Comment):

    colleenb (View Comment):
    Ah yes. Ice Station Zebra – one of my guilty pleasures. It’s practically impossible to figure out but Patrick McGoohan chews so much scenery I’m amazed there was any left in the whole of Hollywood.

    I have checked it out from the library so many times, and fail to finish it.

    I may end up just buying a copy to force myself to do it.

    The book is by Alistair MacLean.  I don’t know that I’ve ever seen the movie, pretty sure I read all of his books when I was in High School.

    • #41
  12. kedavis Coolidge
    kedavis
    @kedavis

    TheRightNurse (View Comment):

    First off, let me say how much I love that you left it to your Ricochet members to upvote this. Secondly, let me confirm: Ricochet people know what they like and they like you!

    This is excellent.

    Working in healthcare, I think about this sort of thing a lot. When we look at stem cell research (wonderful! It can be anything! Fix it all!), I’m surprised at how dense the scientists are about the human cost and about the lack of respect for human bodies. I’m genuinely surprised, at times, that they don’t really recognize it. Being too close can sometimes blind a person to the cost and to the larger ramifications…but…

    Sometimes I wonder if they aren’t just putting their heads in the sand for the sake of their Beautiful Dreams. They hope that it will do great things and use that hope to camouflage their fears that they might do something else too. I can only believe that the cognitive dissonance is such that they don’t just rationalize it; they completely deny the existence of any other repercussions. They simply do not exist and are somehow someone else’s problem for another day.

     

    • #42
  13. Gary McVey Contributor
    Gary McVey
    @GaryMcVey

    Looks like a Zoom call, doesn’t it? It’s from High Treason, 1929, one of Britain’s earliest talkies. The movie is set at the outbreak of war in 1940. 

    • #43
  14. kedavis Coolidge
    kedavis
    @kedavis

    KevinKrisher (View Comment):

    DrewInTherapy (View Comment):

    KevinKrisher (View Comment):

    My favorite pre-war sci-fi film is Things to Come, based on the H.G. Wells novel. It combines the stunning visuals of the Korda brothers with terrific acting by, among others, Sir Ralph Richardson.

    It is also the first WWII movie. It was released two years before war broke out, at a time that many people knew it was coming. It predicts a war that extends from 1940 until 1954, and that reduces civilization to a pre-industrial state with a few remnants of modern technology.

    I should watch that. The book is basically an extended fake history text depicting a glorious fascist future. A few years back Big Finish did an audio adaptation that I reviewed here (https://ricochet.com/members/drewinwisconsin/activity/1637861/). And . . . yikes. Two hours of Marxist propaganda. If it’s intended to be a tragedy, then I hope listeners were properly horrified.

    How does the film turn that plotless book into an actual narrative?

    H.G. Wells’ political views were truly awful. In a 1932 speech at Oxford University, he said that he supported the idea of “liberal fascism.”

    So THAT’S where Jonah stole the title for his book!

    • #44
  15. Gary McVey Contributor
    Gary McVey
    @GaryMcVey

    colleenb (View Comment):

    Living High and Wide (View Comment):

    Judge Mental (View Comment):

    Percival (View Comment):

    Judge Mental (View Comment):

    “Our Germans are better than their Germans.”

    Eventually, their Germans were our Germans.

    That’s a line from The Right Stuff. The Germans in question were our Germans and the Soviet’s Germans.

    As the British spy said to the American submarine commander in Ice Station Zebra, “The Russians put your film, made by your German Scientists, into our camera made by our German scientists, into their satellite made by their German scientists…”

    Ah yes. Ice Station Zebra – one of my guilty pleasures. It’s practically impossible to figure out but Patrick McGoohan chews so much scenery I’m amazed there was any left in the whole of Hollywood. Always put a British actor up against an American movie idol if you want some acting. See Alan Rickman opposite Bruce Willis, Kevin Costner, etc.

    Some trivia about ISZ: it was a great favorite of Howard Hughes, who owned a copy. In the 1968 Christmas season, back then a bigger box office season than summertime, MGM pissed off theater owners mightily by pulling the wildly profitable 2001: A Space Odyssey from Cinerama theaters, while it was still making money after eight months, and substituted Ice Station Zebra, its next Cinerama film, which didn’t do that well. It didn’t help the studio’s relationship with Kubrick either, to say the least. 

    Ice Station Zebra, like its near-contemporary Tora! Tora! Tora!, suffers a bit photographically by being sandwiched in-between realistic looking outdoor camerawork and old fashioned made-on-the-sound stage “exteriors” with paper mache icebergs. In, say, 1959, it would have been all studio and you wouldn’t have noticed the obvious differences between one shot and the next. 

    • #45
  16. kedavis Coolidge
    kedavis
    @kedavis

    This scene comes before the previous one I posted, and explains Val Kilmer’s expression at the end of it:

     

    • #46
  17. Clifford A. Brown Member
    Clifford A. Brown
    @CliffordBrown

    Woman in the Moon, running 171 minutes, is available on Kanopy, free streaming tied to your public library card.

    • #47
  18. The Scarecrow Thatcher
    The Scarecrow
    @TheScarecrow

    kedavis (View Comment):

    This scene comes before the previous one I posted, and explains Val Kilmer’s expression at the end of it:

     

    Such a great movie.

    • #48
  19. Percival Thatcher
    Percival
    @Percival

    kedavis (View Comment):

    KevinKrisher (View Comment):

    DrewInTherapy (View Comment):

    KevinKrisher (View Comment):

    My favorite pre-war sci-fi film is Things to Come, based on the H.G. Wells novel. It combines the stunning visuals of the Korda brothers with terrific acting by, among others, Sir Ralph Richardson.

    It is also the first WWII movie. It was released two years before war broke out, at a time that many people knew it was coming. It predicts a war that extends from 1940 until 1954, and that reduces civilization to a pre-industrial state with a few remnants of modern technology.

    I should watch that. The book is basically an extended fake history text depicting a glorious fascist future. A few years back Big Finish did an audio adaptation that I reviewed here (https://ricochet.com/members/drewinwisconsin/activity/1637861/). And . . . yikes. Two hours of Marxist propaganda. If it’s intended to be a tragedy, then I hope listeners were properly horrified.

    How does the film turn that plotless book into an actual narrative?

    H.G. Wells’ political views were truly awful. In a 1932 speech at Oxford University, he said that he supported the idea of “liberal fascism.”

    So THAT’S where Jonah stole the title for his book!

    Jonah called it out at length in the book.

    • #49
  20. JennaStocker Member
    JennaStocker
    @JennaStocker

    I love this. And that I have very little knowledge of the subject matter itself, but can be properly schooled by the members here makes it all the more enjoyable. But from a slightly different direction, I think what’s revealed is a universal truth that transcends time or perceptive influence: man’s constant and limitless exploration of his own imagination, and the realization of his capacity to oppress his fellow man in the pursuit of power. We see it then: post-War, as we see it now: the amazing defense of Israel by the Iron Dome, and the Chinese destruction of the Uighurs. As we peel back the layers of historical context, we see this, similarly to @peterrobinson post about the pre-Huxley & Orwell dystopia found in We by Russian writer Yevgeny Zamyatin. Thanks again for a great post!

    • #50
  21. kedavis Coolidge
    kedavis
    @kedavis

    Clifford A. Brown (View Comment):

    Woman in the Moon, running 171 minutes, is available on Kanopy, free streaming tied to your public library card.

    It also appears to be available on blu-ray.

    • #51
  22. KevinKrisher Inactive
    KevinKrisher
    @KevinKrisher

    kedavis (View Comment):

    This scene comes before the previous one I posted, and explains Val Kilmer’s expression at the end of it:

     

    The Scarecrow (View Comment):

    kedavis (View Comment):

    This scene comes before the previous one I posted, and explains Val Kilmer’s expression at the end of it:

     

    Such a great movie.

    Especially the scene where Val Kilmer experiences every college student’s worst nightmare.

     

    • #52
  23. Stad Coolidge
    Stad
    @Stad

    Miffed White Male (View Comment):
    The book is by Alistair MacLean. 

    His books made great movies . . .

    • #53
  24. Cosmik Phred Member
    Cosmik Phred
    @CosmikPhred

    Miffed White Male (View Comment):

    DrewInTherapy (View Comment):

    colleenb (View Comment):
    Ah yes. Ice Station Zebra – one of my guilty pleasures. It’s practically impossible to figure out but Patrick McGoohan chews so much scenery I’m amazed there was any left in the whole of Hollywood.

    I have checked it out from the library so many times, and fail to finish it.

    I may end up just buying a copy to force myself to do it.

    The book is by Alistair MacLean. I don’t know that I’ve ever seen the movie, pretty sure I read all of his books when I was in High School.

    I started reading the novels when I was 9 or 10 and kept at them as new ones appeared in the library. My first was Where Eagles Dare, a novelization of his script.

    The movie is fantastic and The Critical Drinker nails its virtues here:

     

    • #54
  25. kedavis Coolidge
    kedavis
    @kedavis

    Tried watching Woman In the Moon.  Just couldn’t do it.

    TENTS on the MOON?  No way, can’t suspend my disbelief that much.

    • #55
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